Feminist viewpoints on prostitution and sex work Volume 2

G. Pie wrote:

wage zombie wrote:

So i'm still a bit confused--is a drug addicted prostitute who is selling sex for drugs or money to buy drugs making a choice to do so?

I think of it as her drug addiction making the choice, not her.

I guess once she's "had enough of her lifestyle" she'll start making choices for herself then.

wage zombie wrote:

So, for example, some here are in favour of decrim for sex workers and not for their clients.  Decriminalize women, the act of selling sex, because we don't want to punish prosituted women for trying to survive in their situation.  But leave buying sex crimimalized, because it's objectionable behaviour that encourages the objectification and commodicfication of women's bodies in society as a whole.  And because many here have no concern whatsoever for men who are inconvenienced because their personal desire to buy access to women's bodies is illegal.

Now as a moral argument this is quite coherent and one that proponents can feelpretty good about having.  Loretta, please correct me if i'm wrong, i feel this is close to your position.

Yes.

wage zombie wrote:

The problem is that this morally coherent argument is not very workable at all.  And sex workers posting here have explained why.  Sure, if a sex worker on the street has a legal right to negotiate in public that's great--but if her prospective client does not have the legal right to do so, then it's not going to work.  If the guy in the car does not have the legal right to negotiate in public then he's not going to do so.  So "the sex worker on the street", the one that everyone cares about, is going to be forced to get in the car before being able to set her rates and limits.  This puts her in very precarious position.

The scenario has been brought up several times but i have not seen it addressed.  The moral argument feels good but it does nothing to change the status quo.

It does, actually. First, there is a difference between a street worker having a "legal right" to negotiate the exchange of money for sex, and a street worker not getting arrested for that action. Full decriminalization is a proposal that means no strings attached, from what I've read here but I'm open to correction. Legalization would give a street worker a legal right but would also come with regulation, etc. I'm under the impression that the proponents of these major changes prefer the former but again, I stand to be corrected.

Having said that, partial decriminalization prevents those who get paid to have sex from getting arrested herself. This has the short term benefit to her in avoiding incarceration and a long term benefit of avoiding a criminal record. Also, one would think that, if she is not subject to prosecution, she would be more able to report problem customers or bosses.

wage zombie wrote:

Advocates of partial decrim (for the sex worker only) have not put forward any workable solutions to the status quo,  And they're not in favour of full decrim.  So what do they prefer?  There's the status quo, and then there's full decrim which would make things safer for women than the status quo.  Which do you prefer?  If neither are acceptable, then put forward a solution that would actually make things safer for sex workers.

Is making things safer for those who get paid for sex the only goal here? If so, is full decrim going to accomplish that and, is it the only way to accomplish it? In reading the report from New Zealand, I think it's fair to say that the jury's still out. Also, in terms of the well-being of all women, what are the effects? Far from proposing alternative solutions, I still have questions that haven't been adequately addressed myself.

wage zombie wrote:

Advocates of decrim for sex workers only have been asked multiple times to provide details about how that would work, but details are sparse.  If you can't provide a workable alternative to the status quo, and you have moral objections to proposed workable alternatives to the status quo, then...it will be hard for people not to get confused into thinking you prefer the status quo.

It's perfectly workable to change the law to prevent the arrest of women in prostitution without having to solve the problems for those involved in buying sex from them. They are not one and the same, despite efforts to link them inextricably.