Do You Believe In Santa Claus?
Wed, 2009-11-18 19:27
#1
Do You Believe In Santa Claus?
Wed, 2009-11-18 19:27
#2
I don't believe in Santa Claus at all.
I remember as a child being brought up to believe that Santa brought us gifts on Christmas Eve. Like all, I eventually learned the truth about Santa, and there was the attendant let-down. But I still believed in the "Santa Claus" myth, with Santa having come to be the most recognisable Christmas symbol, and I still thought it harmless fun to see children believe in Santa.
Not anymore. Christmas is the time of year when we are most bombarded with commercialism, with the ads sometimes even showing up before Hallowe'en (google Christmas creep). It's hypocritically proclaimed as a time to spend with friends and family and others close to us, which would be the case if we didn't have to work so hard because a) our workplaces are so busy, and b) we need money to buy those many gifts. And Santa, far from being a mythical do-gooder and model of generosity, adds more fuel to this fire. Because of Santa, children are taught to judge other's love for them on the basis of the presents they receive. Often, people will ask what you received for Christmas by asking along the lines of "was Santa good to you?" Not only that, but children will eventually find out (at younger ages than my generation did, it seems) that Santa's not real anyways, with the attendant heartbreak that brings. "Oh, but children need to have an imagination." What's "imaginitive" about teaching children to believe in some character who bribes them, thereby setting them up for heartbreak later in life when they find out he's not real? Taking kids to a park or playground and turning them loose does far more to encourage their imagination than Santa Claus ever did.
While I'm at it, I dislike the way that Christ has been marginalised as part of our "Christ"mas celebrations. He's been reduced to a cute baby in a straw manger without any mention of the political implications of the message He would later come to preach. His message was so disturbing to the authorities that the Bible records the king of the day ordering all boys under the age of 2 to be slaughtered. This is just as much a part of the Christmas story as the inkeeper, the shepherds, and the angels, yet is whitewashed in popular culture.
My (somewhat disorganised) thoughts on the subject. What are yours?
Wed, 2009-11-18 19:34
#3
I keep hearing about the "heartache" kids experience when they find out Santa isn't real. I don't remember experiencing heartache. I don't remember my kid experiencing it either. I don't get that. Who experiences heartache when they get too old to believe in Santa?
Wed, 2009-11-18 19:52
#4
Frustrated Mess
I always hear how "Christmas is for the Children!" No it's not. Christmas is for the retailers.
Wed, 2009-11-18 20:07
#5
What's all this nonsense? Of course I believe in Santa Claus. I saw him with my own eyes, again and again - in the Santa Claus parades of my youth, on TV, at the shopping malls, on the street with his bell and collection box... And I saw the gifts (ok, not in my Orthodox Jewish home as a child, but in later years and at friends' homes).
Of course I believe in Santa Claus.
It's that God guy who doesn't exist. Never saw Him nor His works.
Wed, 2009-11-18 23:14
#6
Boom Boom
There ain't no sanity clause.
Thu, 2009-11-19 09:46
#7
I always hear how "Christmas is for the Children!" No it's not. Christmas is for the retailers.
No kidding!
But it doesn't have to be that way. I have good feelings about Christmas that go beyond gifts and buying stuff. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Thu, 2009-11-19 09:50
#8
If it wasn't for the Gold, Frankinscence and Myrrh. I wonder what the retailers mad off of that?
Thu, 2009-11-19 10:52
#9
Timebandit
I like Santa Claus. We don't celebrate Christmas as a Christian thing, more a solstice/acknowledging the Norse and Celtic idea of feasting your face of and giving tokens to people you like. Santa fits in nicely with our approach. I like giving gifts to people and I love the Santa ritual - the cookies, the anticipation, the frisson as you tumble down the stairs to see what's there for you. Why wouldn't I want my kids to have that?
My big girl stopped believing in Santa Claus last year. I didn't see any heartbreak. She hung on to the idea for a lot longer than most of her friends. My small girl is on the fence right now - not sure she actually believes, but not ready to entirely let go of the idea as far as saying so. It's a lot like dragons and fairies. For a while, these were indisputably real. Not because we said so, either. It took some time before they became real as an idea rather than physically real. Santa has been much the same thing.
Santa doesn't bring big-ticket items at Christmas. Just a modest gift and a sock full of odds and ends. And yet my kids were much more into Santa than their friends who got much bigger gifts from Santa.
Thu, 2009-11-19 11:01
#10
Snert
He's been reduced to a cute baby in a straw manger without any mention of the political implications of the message He would later come to preach.
"And in a humble manger was born the Christ Child, who would one day order us all to oppose equal marriage...."
Anyway, what about all the old Pagan rituals and beliefs that got co-opted into the Christmas message? I, for one, would love to see the sun-god Mithra leading the Holiday parade, judging souls and tossing candy to the wee ones. But everyone wants to go back 2000 years and no further.
Thu, 2009-11-19 11:15
#11
It's that God guy who doesn't exist. Never saw Him nor His works.
That's because he inhabits you.
Thu, 2009-11-19 11:23
#12
Snert
But the good news is, they can treat that now.
One little pill, like they have for Heartworm.
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:06
#13
Were you trying to spell "inhibits", skdadl? 
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:10
#14
Santa and xmas bring very little of lasting consequence. At best, some people who have appallingly little to celebrate about might find an extra slab of turkey on their plate at a shelter, or some kid might receive a few guilt based trinkets from a charitable stranger, when they usually have seen noting of the sort all year long. It is a time above all others when Christian consciences tend to be more focused on the spirit of giving, when awareness of the extreme poverty in their midst is temporarily heightened, due to the divine rewards based system where one has to pretend to give a shit in order to gain favour from above. When charity is undertaken in this context, in keeping with the traditional spirit of the season, it does serve the purpose of wiping the year's slate clean just in time for the big feast, and the boxing week sales of course.
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:16
#15
Santa Claus is the most fun if you get to play Santa. It is fascinating that a group of kids who have all met you don't recognize you when you don the suit. You can see in their eyes that they don't see the actual person inside it. Except of course with some of the older kids who get the knowing look in their eyes but still play along anyway.
I love making turkey dinner for family and friends and feasting and singing during the long nights of winter.
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:33
#16
Lou Arab
Wow - there is a lot of Scroges on this board. Christmas is awesome. Full stop.
I have a related question. My kids are 8 and 10 and still seem to believe. I stopped believing when I was six - what is it with these naive, believing children?
I was worried last year that other kids would make fun of them for still believeing, but when I asked my wife if we should break it to the kids, she was agast.
Should I leave it alone? Would I risk letting the kids think of me as 'the man who killed Santa' if I told them? Is there any harm in letting them believe for awhile longer?
What think you Babble?
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:45
#17
I'd let them believe until they come to you and ask. My little one stopped believing far too soon. :(
There is a funny story I've been told in my family (I think it might be exaggerated or an family urban legend at this point) about someone who believed until they were something like 12. Apparently they tried to rush guests out the door on Christmas Eve, all worried that Santa wouldn't come if people didn't get to bed! :D
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:45
#18
Were you trying to spell "inhibits", skdadl?
:D :D :D
Thu, 2009-11-19 12:46
#19
I stopped believing for a very short time when I first started school and then a wise Aunt [one of our best Santa's] told me that if I didn't believe then I likely wouldn't get as many presents. So I went back to believing for a couple more years. I suspect your children may have a deeper understanding of the advantages of believe than you think. Besides if they are anything like my grandchildren of the same age they will look at you and roll their eyes when you raise the subject.
Thu, 2009-11-19 14:16
#20
Santa is cool.
And I say that even though Christmas was problematic awful early in my own childhood. And I stayed away for a number of years even though I was in close contact with my family after leaving at any early age.
Kids have a zillion different ways of processing Santa as they get older.
My daughter has always been so into fantasy that you couldn't rally point to where she literally stopped beleiving in Santa. But it must have been at least after 8, and certainly still beleived after lots of her friends told her there was no Santa. She was astute enough not to ask us, and probably did not argue the point with her friends.
And I agree that playing Santa is a blast. Once I stepped out of my sisters and donned the suit, coming back not much later at all. She told me that one of my eldest nephew had been expressing general skepticism and dissapointment... but that some little thing i had done, don't even remember what, he took as definite proof that I was the real Santa.
I don't rmember when I stopped beleiving in Santa- but I've always felt that I missed something in starting to take life so literally at an early age.
Thu, 2009-11-19 14:20
#21
I suspect your children may have a deeper understanding of the advantages of belief than you think.
Exactly. which connects with my comment about not really knowing when my daughter literally stopped beleiving- whatever that is.
Kids have no problem with knowingly suspending disbelief.
Too bad I didn't bottle a stash for the future.
Thu, 2009-11-19 14:21
#22
It's that God guy who doesn't exist. Never saw Him nor His works.
That's because he inhabits you.
Not any more. I evicted him for non-payment of Lent.
Thu, 2009-11-19 14:22
#23
Ms. C. told our 12 year old who has Aspergers the truth 3 weeks ago. He is fine and has agreed he is now part of the adult team who has to continue the myth for his 7 year old brother. There were legitimate concerns that our 12 year old was going to be teased at school.
Thu, 2009-11-19 14:51
#24
Timebandit
I think kids stop believing when they're ready.
When I was 8, my cousin told me on Christmas Eve that there was no Santa. I was some upset. I still really believed, really wanted to believe. My dad figured out something wasn't right and soon got it out of me. Instead of telling me my cousin was wrong, he just said, "We'll see." We lived in the top half of an up-and-down duplex and our living room window looked out on the porch roof. That night, he took a yardstick and leaned way, way out to make sleigh tracks, took a hoof off the deer he'd shot that year and made hoof prints and a pair of his boots to make Santa tracks. My belief in Santa was unshakable for a few more years after that.
You could say my father lied to me. But all the same, I think it was something of a gift, that extended period of believing, and I love him to pieces for it.
Thu, 2009-11-19 16:35
#25
remind
That night, he took a yardstick and leaned way, way out to make sleigh tracks, took a hoof off the deer he'd shot that year and made hoof prints and a pair of his boots to make Santa tracks. My belief in Santa was unshakable for a few more years after that.You could say my father lied to me. But all the same, I think it was something of a gift, that extended period of believing, and I love him to pieces for it.
Great story...
Agree with the not taking a "christian" bent to Christmas, did/does not either, in our house.
December was/is about myths and magic, the consciousness inherent in the season, and being together making stuff, crafts and food.
Santa of course was magic, as evidenced directly by the ability to make snow for the sleigh when travelling to places that had none. A concern of the daughter's.
So every year when there was no snow, there was a residual pile of "sparkly" snow outside, with sparkly foot prints on the carpet, leading to the stockings inside.
It was such a loved practised by the kids in the family and amongst friends who experienced it, that it is now carried on to a 2nd generation, and will most likely to a 3rd.
Thu, 2009-11-19 17:01
#26
I believe.
Thu, 2009-11-19 19:40
#27
There was no talk of Santa (or dinosaurs!) in our strict christian home growing up. I certainly didn't miss it then, and it lets me off the hook now from having to inculcate this consumerist myth in my own kids. I'm happy about that because I have never had to lie to them, but also because the way I see it, believing in an omnicient, omnipowerful Santa and Tooth Fairy is fundamentally not that much different from believing in saints and scapulars, or angels, auras and colonic irrigation -- all of which I fervently hope my kids will manage to avoid.
Of course after all this, both kids now half-believe in Santa, and my six-year-old counsels me regularly that as an athiest I will never get to heaven.
Thu, 2009-11-19 19:54
#28
"And in a humble manger was born the Christ Child, who would one day order us all to oppose equal marriage...."
Where did He say this? I've read the Bible cover-to-cover, and there's no record there of Him saying anything of the sort.
Anyway, what about all the old Pagan rituals and beliefs that got co-opted into the Christmas message? I, for one, would love to see the sun-god Mithra leading the Holiday parade, judging souls and tossing candy to the wee ones. But everyone wants to go back 2000 years and no further.
Hey, since we started talking about "winter" and "holidays" as oppsed to just strictly "Christmas," I'm okay with that.
Santa and xmas bring very little of lasting consequence. At best, some people who have appallingly little to celebrate about might find an extra slab of turkey on their plate at a shelter, or some kid might receive a few guilt based trinkets from a charitable stranger, when they usually have seen noting of the sort all year long. It is a time above all others when Christian consciences tend to be more focused on the spirit of giving, when awareness of the extreme poverty in their midst is temporarily heightened, due to the divine rewards based system where one has to pretend to give a shit in order to gain favour from above. When charity is undertaken in this context, in keeping with the traditional spirit of the season, it does serve the purpose of wiping the year's slate clean just in time for the big feast, and the boxing week sales of course.
[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:1-4&version=NIV]... don't understand their instructions that well:[/url]
"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Wow - there is a lot of Scroges on this board. Christmas is awesome. Full stop.
Deep down I love Christmas. I love hearing Christmas music, and shows (if I can get to any) and it's an important reflection point for me in my faith. But I do think it's overdone. Advertisers ram it down our throats to the point that it's very annoying. The hypocricy is rampant. Slumberjack did a great job describing the phony generosity that is encouraged around Christmas. In terms of holidays and spending time with loved ones, for many people Christmas is anything but relaxing as they have to work (think retail for one) and there is a sense of guilt that people must spend a certain amount on someone or they're not worthy. And there's also talk about how it's such a wonderful time that everybody has to be happy. Many people, for a variety of reasons, do not and this creates even more stress because they're not feeling the happiness everyone else thinks they should.
Thu, 2009-11-19 20:18
#29
According to Newtonian physics, Santa Claus is impossible. But the new science says that Santa can be everywhere at once. This would explain why kids have to be asleep when he visits. Because if just one kid observes Santa, he collapses into a single state as per Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why...
Thu, 2009-11-19 22:49
#30
I told my youngest this year that the big fat man wasn't all that, he took it well, better than his mother did, no more "kids" in the house, though i still see them every day...
Thu, 2009-11-19 23:02
#31
Frustrated Mess
It's that God guy who doesn't exist. Never saw Him nor His works.
That's because he inhabits you.
GETEMOUT!GETEMOUT!
Thu, 2009-11-19 23:08
#32
Of course there is a Santa. And Santa hates poor children. That's why he brings rich kids more toys. It is a valuable lesson for children to learn, if only parents had the guts to teach it.
In a perfect reflection of real life, it is the very rich who are the recipients of society's largess. Big banks get billions in bailouts, the superwealthy don't have to pay taxes, and corporations can quite literally get away with murder. The poor don't even get coal.
Ho ho ho.
Fri, 2009-11-20 00:15
#33
Such heathens! 
Fri, 2009-11-20 18:34
#34
Boom Boom
Speaking of Christmas music, I just looked at my Amazon page, and the new Bob Dylan album Christmas In The Heart is recommended for me. Amazon says: ''2009 holiday release, the first Christmas album from the legendaryFolk/Rock singer/songwriter. Christmas In The Heart is Dylan's 47th album and follows the worldwide success of his album Together Through Life. In a commitment to ending hunger, all of Bob Dylan's U.S. current and future royalties from sales of Christmas In The Heart will be donated in perpetuity to Feeding America, guaranteeing that more than four million meals will be provided to over 1.4 million people in need in this country during this year's holiday season. 15 tracks including 'Here Comes Santa Claus', 'Winter Wonderland', 'Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas' and many others.'' Has anyone here listened to this yet?
Fri, 2009-11-20 18:47
#35
You do indeed have a sense of humour Boom Boom, I pay no mind to what anyone says.
Fri, 2009-11-20 18:58
#36
Boom Boom
A Christmas album from Bob Dylan sounded weird to me, too, but then I remembered he issued a couple of truly forgettable Christian music albums in the past.
Sat, 2009-11-21 15:40
#37
Excitements buiding.
We're here in Halifax, Santa Claus parade in an hour.
My teenagers may never be too old for this.
Sat, 2009-11-21 16:40
#38
Polly B
Michelle, I took it particularily hard the year I found out Santa wasn't real. Cried, moped, sat in my room. At our house Santa (cripes look at that I capitalize Santa on purpose and don't capitalize god on purpose as well. Hmmm.) anyways, He didn't bring a whole bunch in the way of gifts but there was all this cool stuff and mystery and tradition surrounding Santa that I remember being afraid that if there was no Santa we would all just sit around Christmas eve and drink like the adults.
My oldest son believed far longer than I thought he would, but he was always naive about everything. I remember one summer day on the patio he asked me, finally, if Santa was real. I said no, we talked about the logistics for a while and he was okay. A full half hour later he looks over at me and says...."well, what about the easter bunny?"
