Interesting article on emissions, US hypocracy and German hypocracy ( German emissions have not fallen; they use more coal to produce exectricity %-wise, than the US):
http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=2533
Son of Kyoto: Copenhagen
Wed, 2009-11-04 16:54
#52
Sun, 2009-11-15 00:11
#53
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/climate-change-debate-domin... is biggest Kyoto defaulter: Prof. Tim Flannery[/color][/url]
Prof. Tim Flannery of the Copenhagen Climate Council, a business-oriented scientific group, told The Canadian Press on Saturday that the UN negotiations in Copenhagen put Canada in “a really difficult position”.
“Canada is by far the biggest defaulter on its Kyoto obligations on a tonnage basis. And as a result of that there is a lack of trust,” he said. [...]
Canada's oil sands are in particular danger of becoming a target for tariff censure, Prof. Flannery said in an interview, and the government needs to be acting aggressively now to reduce the carbon intensity of their development.
Sun, 2009-11-15 09:18
#54
Yep, Tim Flannery has had a critical eye on Canada since his Tim Flannery, An Explorer's Notebook:Essays on Life, History and Climate came out in 2007.
The introduction, titled Outside Canada, Looking In begins: "Canada is a lucky country. Few nations boast such extraordinary landscapes and natural wealth," but soon gets down to the nitty gritty of the biologist's concern. "if the exploitation of Alberta's oil sands is allowed to run a similar course to Newfoundland's cod, Canada has much to fear.
"There is, I think, one thing working in Canada's favour as it struggles with this difficult problem. Canadians place great value in moral rectitude, and it seems that even the oil-sands magnates want to be seen to be doing the right thing. As the inevitability of global emissions reductions sinks in, perhaps things will change. Perhaps what's required is a great new Canadian leader, one with a vision of what a future, sustainaable Canada looks like, one with the confidence and power to tell the oil industry how things stand and what choices it has as that new Canada is forged.
"Such leadership is a rare thing, and in a country with a 200-year history of frontier-resource exploitation behind it, this represents a great change in direction. And that change will only come about if enough ordinary Canadians have the determination to see the thing through, come hell or high water."
It would appear that Tim has given up on ordinary and extrordinary Canadians.
Sun, 2009-11-15 21:26
#55
Frustrated Mess
It is yet to occur, but Copenhagen is already a failure.
During a hastily convened meeting in Singapore, the US president supported a Danish plan to salvage something from next month's meeting by aiming to make it a first-stage series of commitments rather than an all-encompassing protocol.
Mon, 2009-11-16 00:06
#56
Copenhagen is dead in the water. Nothing here folks. Time to move on.
Mon, 2009-11-16 07:09
#57
Sounds like the windup of a conference of morticians.
Tue, 2009-11-17 23:38
#58
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16149]Climate Rage[/url] Naomi Klein
From outside our borders, the climate crisis doesn't look anything like the meteors or space invaders that Todd Stern imagined hurtling toward Earth. It looks, instead, like a long and silent war waged by the rich against the poor. And for that, regardless of what happens in Copenhagen, the poor will continue to demand their rightful reparations. "This is about the rich world taking responsibility for the damage done," says Ilana Solomon, policy analyst for ActionAid USA, one of the groups recently converted to the cause. "This money belongs to poor communities affected by climate change. It is their compensation."
The only way to stop global warming is for rich nations to pay for the damage they've done - or face the consequences
November 16, 2009 "Rolling Stone" -- One last chance to save the world -- for months, that's how the United Nations summit on climate change in Copenhagen, which starts in early December, was being hyped. Officials from 192 countries were finally going to make a deal to keep global temperatures below catastrophic levels. The summit called for "that old comic-book sensibility of uniting in the face of a common danger threatening the Earth," said Todd Stern, President Obama's chief envoy on climate issues. "It's not a meteor or a space invader, but the damage to our planet, to our community, to our children and their children will be just as great."
That was back in March. Since then, the endless battle over health care reform has robbed much of the president's momentum on climate change. With Copenhagen now likely to begin before Congress has passed even a weak-ass climate bill co-authored by the coal lobby, U.S. politicians have dropped the superhero metaphors and are scrambling to lower expectations for achieving a serious deal at the climate summit. It's just one meeting, says U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu, not "the be-all and end-all." . . .
Wed, 2009-11-18 08:51
#59
Thanks for the link to Naomi's article, Fidel. It resonates. But so does the article in today's Waterloo Region Record about the newly unemployed now doubling local food bank disbersements.
Any thoughts on solutions to our double bind? Like, perhaps our returning to a cottage industry scale of production for self-sufficiency ourselves - while still purchasing the exports of developing countries?
Wed, 2009-11-18 14:37
#60
Naomi is out of date. All countries must participate in CO2 reduction: http://tinyurl.com/ycsx98z
Wed, 2009-11-18 16:33
#61
Yes, but we should also help "developing " countries even while our GDP shrinks.
Wed, 2009-11-18 17:07
#62
Frustrated Mess
Naomi is out of date. All countries must participate in CO2 reduction: http://tinyurl.com/ycsx98z
She's not out of date at all. She's absolutlely correct. And maybe you didn't notice while at the Wal-Mart but all those 3rd world emissions go into our plastic crap, fast food burgers, processed junk food, and gas tanks. In other words, they're really our emissions having been off-shored along with the jobs we used to go to.
Wed, 2009-11-18 18:24
#63
Then I guess they are already getting aid from us.
Wed, 2009-11-18 20:11
#64
Frustrated Mess
You revel in ignorance, eh? Good for you. Don't ever let reality interfere with your unexamined preconceptions and biases.
Wed, 2009-11-18 20:28
#65
But the wrong kind, jm. They should not be converted into sweatshop producers of our WalMart swag. They should be assisted in maintaining viable agricultural economies, not having to import food, and certainly not exporting specialty crops to satisfy our "needs", with local manufacturing and medicine to meet their requirements. They can stop short of our level of "civilized", atomized existence, alienated from nature and society around us, that's for damned sure.
Take up reading, beginning with Naomi's No Logo, which gives you a fine idea of what your purchases of cheap goods means to people on the other side of the planet. (Then you can read in your daily newspaper what it means to the quality and quantity of jobs all around you).
Wed, 2009-11-18 20:56
#66
So then how do we help? With cash to their dictators? It looks like patronization: we (the West) will help you poor ignorant people. Give them some respect and help them overthrow their corrupt regimes. Nothing else will work.
Thu, 2009-11-19 09:56
#67
First we stop our corporations from making a buck there. Perhaps even making more popular the micro-loans that help lift some out of their situation. Klein is talking about making up for all the capital sucked out of their economies.
You have a 19th century missionary's perspective on "help", with a dash of Kipling's "white man's burden" thrown in for measure.
Edited to add Monbiot's latest offering, he says this is primary:"It's probably too late to prepare for peak oil, but we can at least try to salvage food production." I would think that he means everywhere.
Sun, 2009-11-22 02:23
#68
President Barack Obama is considering setting a provisional target for cutting America's huge greenhouse gas emissions, removing the greatest single obstacle to a landmark global agreement to fight climate change.
The Observer has learnt that administration officials have been consulting international negotiators and key players on Capitol Hill about signing up to a provisional target at the UN global warming summit in Copenhagen, now less than three weeks away.
Todd Stern, the state department climate change envoy, said the administration recognised that America had to come forward with a target for cutting its emissions. The US, which with China is responsible for 40% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, is the only major developed nation yet to table an offer.
"What we are looking at is to see whether we could put down essentially a provisional number that would be contingent on our legislation," Stern said from Copenhagen, where he was meeting Danish officials. "We are looking at that, there are people we need to consult with."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/22/obama-greenhouse-gas-c...
I still don't see Congress biting when it comes to making a target binding on the US, but I suppose it's something.
Sun, 2009-11-22 07:23
#69
If the coal and oil states can be separated from the coastal voters, perhaps a down to the wire vote like the 60 percenter JUST won on the health bill...
So refreshing to see the fault not laid at the feet of the pres. It's dumbed-down America dammit.
Sun, 2009-11-22 11:47
#70
Frustrated Mess
But the wrong kind, jm. They should not be converted into sweatshop producers of our WalMart swag. They should be assisted in maintaining viable agricultural economies, not having to import food, and certainly not exporting specialty crops to satisfy our "needs", with local manufacturing and medicine to meet their requirements. They can stop short of our level of "civilized", atomized existence, alienated from nature and society around us, that's for damned sure.
Take up reading, beginning with Naomi's No Logo, which gives you a fine idea of what your purchases of cheap goods means to people on the other side of the planet. (Then you can read in your daily newspaper what it means to the quality and quantity of jobs all around you).
Here's a new one for you George: Price of a Bargain
Sun, 2009-11-22 12:10
#71
"The ship of fools, with all our compulsive habits and entrenched vested interests, has left port once again."
"Heather Menzies is a Value Village junkie. Her latest book is Enter Mourning: A Memoir on Death, Dementia and Coming Home."
Thanks, FM. She takes a really comprehensive look at what ails us, in that piece, and sums it beautifully. Gotta have a peek also at Enter Mourning, Isn't she an Ottawa writer?
And Naomi's update to No Logo is featured in the Globe's Saturday Focus ..."Yes, she can: Naomi Klain takes on Obama" (thought you might like to link it. :) (I can't)
Tue, 2009-11-24 00:01
#72
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-vows-ambitious-cuts-... splits with Ottawa on climate change[/color][/url]
Quebec is taking the final step in its break from Ottawa on climate change, unveiling an ambitious plan to reduce greenhouse gases and blasting the federal government for inaction only a few weeks before a major international environmental conference.
Premier Jean Charest announced Monday that, by 2020, the province will reduce greenhouse-gas emissions by 20 per cent below 1990 levels, a goal similar to the target the European Union has adopted. [...]
Quebec's stringent new target would give the province the lowest level of greenhouse-gas emissions per resident on the continent. Quebec, where all political parties agree on complying with the Kyoto accord on climate change, already has the country's lowest level of greenhouse-gas emissions – 10 tonnes per resident or the equivalent of half of the Canadian average – because of its widespread use of hydro-electricity. The province has already broken with Ottawa once on the issue, aiming to reduce its emissions by the Kyoto target of 6 per cent below the 1990 level by 2012.
Wed, 2009-11-25 15:15
#73
Boom Boom
10 people are currently occupying Labour Minister's Rona Ambrose's edmonton constituency office to push for climate justice.
CITIZENS FOR CLIMATE JUSTICE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Citizens Occupy Rona Ambrose's Edmonton Office: call for climate justice in lead-up to Copenhagen talks
November 25, 2009 (Edmonton, Alberta) --- The second of a series of peaceful sit-ins targeting elected officials, tar sands financiers, and the coal and tar sands industries began at 11:00 am at Labour Minister Rona Ambrose's Edmonton constituency office (6801 170 St.) today. 10 people entered the office and have staged a peaceful sit-in - refusing to leave until the federal government commits to combating the climate crisis and stems the deaths and displacements of millions that will result from further inaction. The occupation follows a similar occupation that was held on Monday at Environment Minister Jim Prentice's office in Calgary.
"While our government delays millions of people will die or become displaced due to the climate crisis. By stalling and blocking progress the Canadian government is saying it doesn't care about the lives of those currently and most affected by the climate crisis," said Martin Tweedale, one of the people occupying the office. "Rona Ambrose must put pressure on the Government to act and push for a just, ambitious, and binding deal that listens to the science, and is led by those most directly impacted by the climate crisis."
Inaction on climate change is already displacing and killing millions, and sending many into poverty. The UN estimates there will be 150 million climate refugees by 2050.
"Canada's economy is being left behind, our environment is being decimated and we are telling those most vulnerable that their lives don't matter. Rona Ambrose should be investing in green jobs not carbon intensive industries like the tar sands. The US government invested 14 times more per person in renewable energy than Canada last year," said Keely Kidner. "We've held rallies, phone-ins, flash mobs, we've written and talked to our MP's and nothing has changed. Now we are taking the next step, in the tradition of Gandhi and the Civil Rights Movement to do our part to solve the greatest environmental threat of our time."
The sit-in is still ongoing. The police have been called and there is potential for arrest.
Information about the call for civil disobedience for climate justice, as well as updates on actions set to take place across Canada in the coming weeks is online at:
http://www.facebook.com/l/84c0f;canadaclimatejustice.wordpress.com/
-30-
For More Information Contact:
Keely Kidner: 780 695 9057
Martin Tweedale: 780 490 8015
--------------------
To reply to this message, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox%2Freadmessage.php&t=184480954935&mid=1777cb4G2a8f0aa0G367eb68G0
Thu, 2009-11-26 16:57
#74
There is at least one part of the business community that's treating climate change with the seriousness it deserves. That's the insurance industry, because they're going to have to pay claims on some of the resulting disasters.
Thu, 2009-11-26 19:26
#75
Wonder what they/we do when premiums become impossible to pay? Could be some interesting building codes appearing. They are already being considered in an Arctic of melting permafrost.
Sat, 2009-11-28 21:10
#76
Lovely, just friggin' lovely.
Climate change denier Nick Griffin to represent EU at Copenhagen
BNP leader who believes climate change activists are 'cranks' will be member of European parliament's delegation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/nick-griffin-bnp-copenhagen-summit
Sat, 2009-11-28 21:47
#77
remind
LOL, goes right along with RMay debating climate and giving them a voice
Sun, 2009-11-29 11:11
#78
Lovely, just friggin' lovely.
Climate change denier Nick Griffin to represent EU at Copenhagen
Maybe he'll advocate for a carbon-neutral way of disposing of Europe's immigrants. That's about the most we can hope for, I'm afraid.
Sun, 2009-11-29 22:35
#79
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/30/countries-to-watch][co... countries to watch [from the Guardian][/color][/url]
Canada
In stark contrast to its cuddly international image, Canada is the dirty old man of the climate world – missing its Kyoto emissions reduction target by a country mile (by 2007, it was 34% above its target) and showing no signs of reigning in its profligacy.
Friends and foes Roundly criticised by developing countries for being way off the pace, now there are calls to suspend it from the Commonwealth.
What they're offering A pathetic 3% cut on their 1990 emissions levels by 2020 – an offer mired in thick black tar.
What they most want No curbs on its ability to mine those lucrative tar sands in Alberta for oil (a far more carbon-intensive process than regular extraction).
Least likely to say "Look, when you set a target, you've got to stick to it, OK?"
Tue, 2009-12-01 22:38
#80
George Monbiot:
[url=http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/12/01/the-urgent-threat-to-world-pe... Urgent Threat to World Peace is... Canada[/color][/url]
Until now I believed that the nation which has done most to sabotage a new climate change agreement was the United States. I was wrong. The real villain is Canada. Unless we can stop it, the harm done by Canada in December 2009 will outweigh a century of good works.
Tue, 2009-12-01 23:03
#81
Finally.
No wonder there were such vicious attacks on him today from some of the observers in the Globe and Mail during the Munk Debate.
Wed, 2009-12-02 16:59
#82
If the truth be known.........
Copenhagen climate change talks must fail, says top scientist
Exclusive: World's leading climate change expert says summit talks so The scientist who convinced the world to take notice of the looming danger of global warming says it would be better for the planet and for future generations if next week's Copenhagen climate change summit ended in collapse.
In an interview with the Guardian, James Hansen, the world's pre-eminent climate scientist, said any agreement likely to emerge from the negotiations would be so deeply flawed that it would be better to start again from scratch.
"I would rather it not happen if people accept that as being the right track because it's a disaster track," said Hansen, who heads the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York.
"The whole approach is so fundamentally wrong that it is better to reassess the situation. If it is going to be the Kyoto-type thing then [people] will spend years trying to determine exactly what that means." He was speaking as progress towards a deal in Copenhagen received a boost today, with India revealing a target to curb its carbon emissions. All four of the major emitters – the US, China, EU and India – have now tabled offers on emissions, although the equally vexed issue of funding for developing nations to deal with global warming remains deadlocked.
Hansen, in repeated appearances before Congress beginning in 1989, has done more than any other scientist to educate politicians about the causes of global warming and to prod them into action to avoid its most catastrophic consequences. But he is vehemently opposed to the carbon market schemes – in which permits to pollute are bought and sold – which are seen by the EU and other governments as the most efficient way to cut emissions and move to a new clean energy economy.
Hansen is also fiercely critical of Barack Obama – and even Al Gore, who won a Nobel peace prize for his efforts to get the world to act on climate change – saying politicians have failed to meet what he regards as the moral challenge of our age.
In Hansen's view, dealing with climate change allows no room for the compromises that rule the world of elected politics. "This is analagous to the issue of slavery faced by Abraham Lincoln or the issue of Nazism faced by Winston Churchill," he said. "On those kind of issues you cannot compromise. You can't say let's reduce slavery, let's find a compromise and reduce it 50% or reduce it 40%."
He added: "We don't have a leader who is able to grasp it and say what is really needed. Instead we are trying to continue business as usual."
The understated Iowan's journey from climate scientist to activist accelerated in the last years of the Bush administration. Hansen, a reluctant public speaker, says he was forced into the public realm by the increasingly clear looming spectre of droughts, floods, famines and drowned cities indicated by the science.
That enormous body of scientific evidence has been put under a microscope by climate sceptics after last month's release online of hacked emails sent by respected researchers at the climate research unit of the University of East Anglia. Hansen admitted the controversy could shake public's trust, and called for an investigation. "All that stuff they are arguing about the data doesn't really change the analysis at all, but it does leave a very bad impression," he said.
The row reached Congress today, with Republicans accusing the researchers of engaging in "scientific fascism" and pressing the Obama administration's top science adviser, John Holdren, to condemn the email. Holdren, a climate scientist who wrote one of the emails in the UEA trove, said he was prepared to denounce any misuse of data by the scientists – if one is proved.
Hansen has emerged as a leading campaigner against the coal industry, which produces more greenhouse gas emissions than any other fuel source.
He has become a fixture at campus demonstrations and last summer was arrested at a protest against mountaintop mining in West Virginia, where he called the Obama government's policies "half-assed".
He has irked some environmentalists by espousing a direct carbon tax on fuel use. Some see that as a distraction from rallying support in Congress for cap-and-trade legislation that is on the table.
He is scathing of that approach. "This is analagous to the indulgences that the Catholic church sold in the middle ages. The bishops collected lots of money and the sinners got redemption. Both parties liked that arrangement despite its absurdity. That is exactly what's happening," he said. "We've got the developed countries who want to continue more or less business as usual and then these developing countries who want money and that is what they can get through offsets [sold through the carbon markets]." that deal would be a disaster
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/02/copenhagen-climate-change-james-hansen
Thu, 2009-12-03 20:33
#83
An update on highest per capita co2 polluters: Australia is number 1:
http://www.maplecroft.com/news/australia_overtakes_usa_as_top_polluter_09.php
In Canada's case, what is 18.81 tonnes per capita divided by a billion trees per capita?
Thu, 2009-12-03 20:43
#84
Boom Boom
.
Thu, 2009-12-03 20:50
#85
George Moonbat:. The tar sands, most of which occur in Alberta, are being extracted by the biggest opencast mining operation on earth. An area the size of England, of pristine forests and marshes, will be dug up, unless the Canadians can stop this madness. Already it looks like a scene from the end of the world: the strip-miners are creating a churned black hell on an unimaginable scale.
Doesn't exaggerate much does he?
Doesn't mention reclamation at all. Reminds me of a postcard with a photo of a scaremongering clearcut on one half and the same photo taken in the present where the area was covered in 20 foot tall new growth. Greenpeace used the old scary clearcut photo for propaganda without bothering to mention that the area had been replanted and standtended.
Only the surface bitumen is mined. Most of the potential is in technological advances in preheating deep bitumen to flow to the surface.
Thu, 2009-12-03 21:01
#86
Hopenchangen is already undermined. Another useless grip-n-greet.'
Canada's per capita emissions are 18.81 tonnes per person. If that is the average person with one home who may take a holiday flight once every few years, i wonder how much Dr. Suzuki emits with his 3 houses and constant cross-country travel to one well paid gig or another?
Can't he teleconference? One must wonder about his 'commitment' to his soapbox, or, is sacrifice to the climate change god just for the little folks?
Thu, 2009-12-03 21:25
#87
In The Guardian, Monbiot wrote: 'flying across the Atlantic is as unacceptable, in terms of its impact on human well-being, as child abuse'.[21] Later he conceded that he did himself fly 'hypocritically or paradoxically, depending on your point of view',[22] and landed in Toronto on 29 November to challenge Canada's climate change policies.[23] Accused of hypocrisy by Julie Burchill, Monbiot defended himself in a column, 'Hypocrites unite!' [24]
Hypocrites unite! Gotta love it. This guy has a comprehensive plan to address climate change that includes sacrifices by everyone but himself. Wonder if he's in league with Dr. Dave Suszuki?
Thu, 2009-12-03 22:27
#88
Yeah. They should retreat to caves. Inform the world from there.
Thu, 2009-12-03 23:22
#89
Boom Boom
Just saw this:
Canada Makes Dramatic Shift on Climate Change Management Policy
In a very significant development, on Thursday December 3, 2009, the ruling Conservative government signalled that it will now focus on absolute caps on industrial emissions. Previous Conservative policies had called for carbon intensity targets that would have allowed businesses to meet targets while increasing their emissions.
Appearing at a parliamentary committee, Environment Minister Jim Prentice said the government's strategy would call for a national cap-and-trade system with "absolute caps" to put a price on carbon, under a harmonized structure with the United States. "We are talking about a cap-and-trade system, a continental cap-and-trade system that involves absolute emission reductions, not intensity targets," said Prentice.
excerpt:
Canada's adoption of absolute limits and cap-and-trade are important concessions from a government that up until now has not been amenable to green interests.
ETA: I wrote to the author about this, and he says:
Richard Matthews said...
Keep watching. I expect it will be a big story tomorrow across Canada.
Fri, 2009-12-04 09:30
#90
Yeah. They should retreat to caves. Inform the world from there.
No, they should practice what they preach. People like Al Gore, Suzuki, Monbiot et al are part of the climate change industry that is busily making money off the controversy and believe themselves sooooo important that the rules they espouse don't apply to them.
Disgusting bastards.
Fri, 2009-12-04 09:57
#91
If you read Monbiot's statement regarding the flight, you might re-consider. Have you read his "Heat" ? "Disgusting bastards" seems a bit over the top :D I can think of so many who better fit that description.
Fri, 2009-12-04 10:27
#92
Well, George it is hypocritical - especially with all the calls for developping Nations to just stop trying to achieve a Western-level lifestyle. Why should they listen to others who refuse to give up that lifestyle? Why do so many people have to fly into this conference? It is really just smoke and mirrors. If any of them really cared they would set an example.
Those of us trying to make a difference in our everyday lives do not fly on jumbo jets around the world. Those who say they care about the environment, but live their lives in a completely different manner are just hard to take seriously. Why can't there be more of an effort to show that there is another way? Monbiot could have had a videoconference to speak to Toronto. Copenhagen could be run alternatively. It is one thing to be a hypocrite, it is quite another to be a hypocrite while telling others that they should not be able to have the same privileges.
Unionist: it is great what Quebec is doing, however it should be noted how and why it is easier for them. They have a decades-old agreement with Nfld. to buy hydro at dirt-cheap rates and make a profit selling a lot of it to Americans at a much higher price. This is not something to discuss with a Newfie unless you want a very long and angry heated discussion.
Fri, 2009-12-04 12:20
#93
"Well, George it is hypocritical - especially with all the calls for developping Nations to just stop trying to achieve a Western-level lifestyle. Why should they listen to others who refuse to give up that lifestyle? Why do so many people have to fly into this conference? It is really just smoke and mirrors. If any of them really cared they would set an example."
Yes, from this we can conclude that the "disgusting bastards" do not "really care".
Fri, 2009-12-04 14:58
#94
If you read Monbiot's statement regarding the flight, you might re-consider. Have you read his "Heat" ? "Disgusting bastards" seems a bit over the top :D I can think of so many who better fit that description.
Over the top? Maybe. I can also think of many more deserving. My point is that I live in a small, energy efficient home, walk to work mostly, buy local foods, reduce consumption to the detriment of lifestyle, wear recycled clothing etc when I can afford better.
Suzuki and the rest of the Hopenchangen opportunists do nothing but yap. Whether the 'activists or the capitalists profit, You, me and the rest of the little folks will be picking up the tab, one way or the other while Suzuki and co. swan about making money off our backs.
Disgusting bastards,one and all -is that better?
Fri, 2009-12-04 18:45
#95
Fri, 2009-12-04 18:45
#96
This may well be the whole of what is usefully accomplished in Copenhagen:
Fri, 2009-12-04 19:38
#97
This may well be the whole of what is usefully accomplished in Copenhagen:
The minions will squander what they save on hookers regardless. The taxpayer will still suffer.
Sat, 2009-12-05 06:28
#98
If you read Monbiot's statement regarding the flight, you might re-consider. Have you read his "Heat" ? "Disgusting bastards" seems a bit over the top :D I can think of so many who better fit that description.
Over the top? Maybe. I can also think of many more deserving. My point is that I live in a small, energy efficient home, walk to work mostly, buy local foods, reduce consumption to the detriment of lifestyle, wear recycled clothing etc when I can afford better.
Suzuki and the rest of the Hopenchangen opportunists do nothing but yap. Whether the 'activists or the capitalists profit, You, me and the rest of the little folks will be picking up the tab, one way or the other while Suzuki and co. swan about making money off our backs.
Disgusting bastards,one and all -is that better?
Well, if you can assign that label to these folks, canuquetoo, I just have to ask (with some trepidation, mixed with anticipation) what you would call those whom they (and I) see as "the enemy"?
Sat, 2009-12-05 09:47
#99
If you read Monbiot's statement regarding the flight, you might re-consider. Have you read his "Heat" ? "Disgusting bastards" seems a bit over the top :D I can think of so many who better fit that description.
Over the top? Maybe. I can also think of many more deserving. My point is that I live in a small, energy efficient home, walk to work mostly, buy local foods, reduce consumption to the detriment of lifestyle, wear recycled clothing etc when I can afford better.
Suzuki and the rest of the Hopenchangen opportunists do nothing but yap. Whether the 'activists or the capitalists profit, You, me and the rest of the little folks will be picking up the tab, one way or the other while Suzuki and co. swan about making money off our backs.
Disgusting bastards,one and all -is that better?
Well, if you can assign that label to these folks, canuquetoo, I just have to ask (with some trepidation, mixed with anticipation) what you would call those whom they (and I) see as "the enemy"?
Already included in my previous post:"Whether the 'activists or the capitalists profit, You, me and the rest of the little folks will be picking up the tab,"
I don't have any issue with genuine discussion of solutions or genuine efforts at climate change but the whole fiasco is a politicised manipulation to jockey for profit.
Suzuki sees no problem swanning across the land from one of his homes to Toronto for a half-hour interview that he will walk away from if the 'climate' isn't to his liking but the peasantry should give up visiting their grandchildren because distances are great in this huge land and 'we' need to sacrifice.
Canadians will get another whammy when American coal is declared 'green'. The scam here is for the coal industry to purchase carbon credits to offset their pollution, rather than addressing the polution. Of course, the coal interests will have to raise their prices to compensate for the credits but, by climate change logic, the customers must embrace this cost to'salvage' the earth from climate change.
Sat, 2009-12-05 10:13
#100
But, what WOULD you call those people promoting coal as "green"? Have you run out of epithets when denouncing the champions of change? Is it the attack on your lifestyle or assumed freedoms that brings out the challenge to their ancestry? :D
Sat, 2009-12-05 12:55
#101
haven't read any of this thread, but it would be nice to have some photos up somewhere on rabble of the 20,000 circling in London now (as per the al jazeera article linked at rabble) calling for meaningful action on climate change...