The Gender Divide

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remind remind's picture
The Gender Divide

Quote:
Only a fool would hazard an opinion as to which gender is more ethical, but it seems the sexes live on different moral planets. Women are far more likely than men to declare it is morally wrong to wear fur, clone animals or humans, gamble, commit adultery, use animals for medical tests, or condone euthanasia, polygamy, pornography, prostitution or illegal drug use. As for the view from Mars, men are more likely than women to oppose abortion, contraception and having a baby out of wedlock—issues following a related, if somewhat contradictory, theme. (In fairness, the number of males in opposition is small: 18 per cent of men oppose having children outside of marriage, for instance, compared to 13 per cent of women.)

The pollster Canseco says women are more attuned to the risks of being “objectified and sometimes exploited” and as a result are less likely to accept issues like porn, polygamy, infidelity and prostitution where there is a perceived power imbalance.

What Canadians really believe

From Macleans

susan davis susan davis's picture

what a great article!!!

remind remind's picture

Quote:
"Most guys, the older they get, the younger women they want," said Lawrence, a tall imposing figure with a black goatee and matching leather jacket. "They just want to get their rocks off."

Lawrence says he used to use prostitutes but doesn't anymore. "It's too much of a con game," he said, attributing prostitution's popularity to the frustrations of modern man. "They're pissed off at the feminist movement and women being so pushy."

Two rows away, seated among her fellow Douglas College criminology students, Joanna Shultz had a different take.

stellersjay stellersjay's picture

Great stuff, Remind, but they've moved it and the dang link doesn't work anymore. This will: http://fwd4.me/5z1

remind remind's picture

Thanks stellersjay.....

stellersjay stellersjay's picture

'welcome. I just got a chance to read the whole thing and most of the shifts please me, but I’m disturbed by the increased support for capital punishment. Considering the high-profile wrongful convictions that have occurred in Canada in the past 20 years that would have ended in the execution of innocent men if we had the death penalty, you’d think it would be down.

Moira McQueen, the University of Toronto theology professor (and executive director of the Canadian Catholic Bioethics Institute) reminds me all over again why my Catholic schooling never took and I embraced atheism.

Stargazer

remind wrote:

Quote:
"Most guys, the older they get, the younger women they want," said Lawrence, a tall imposing figure with a black goatee and matching leather jacket. "They just want to get their rocks off."

Lawrence says he used to use prostitutes but doesn't anymore. "It's too much of a con game," he said, attributing prostitution's popularity to the frustrations of modern man. "They're pissed off at the feminist movement and women being so pushy."

Two rows away, seated among her fellow Douglas College criminology students, Joanna Shultz had a different take.

Aw I see...the words of men can be used but only if they agree with your moral position. Nice. Also a good drive by attack on susan.  Keep up the good work remind! BTW, the passive aggressive smiley's? Not working.

yarg

remind wrote:

Quote:
Only a fool would hazard an opinion as to which gender is more ethical, but it seems the sexes live on different moral planets. Women are far more likely than men to declare it is morally wrong to wear fur, clone animals or humans, gamble, commit adultery, use animals for medical tests, or condone euthanasia, polygamy, pornography, prostitution or illegal drug use. As for the view from Mars, men are more likely than women to oppose abortion, contraception and having a baby out of wedlock—issues following a related, if somewhat contradictory, theme. (In fairness, the number of males in opposition is small: 18 per cent of men oppose having children outside of marriage, for instance, compared to 13 per cent of women.)

The pollster Canseco says women are more attuned to the risks of being “objectified and sometimes exploited” and as a result are less likely to accept issues like porn, polygamy, infidelity and prostitution where there is a perceived power imbalance.

What Canadians really believe

From Macleans

 

It strange that men and women are completely equal in every way until women are found to be superior.

Stargazer

Women and men are not equal. Women always get the short end of the stick. What I find fascinating is using a right wing magazine to prove there is a gender divide. I didn't find that article at all as proof women were superior. I found it insulting and degrading. Of course women would be more attuned to objectification...we're usually at the end of it.

Read the comments...almost all men. Almost all negative towards women. These people are their readers. Sad.

I don't need McLeans (I wouldn't even read that if I was desperate in a doc's office) to tell me my lived experience, and those of other women. The comments are disturbing, pathetic and sad.

 

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

No kidding, SG. Morality? Really? When I hear the word morality I reach for my sidearm. I see this article as trying to establish a national "morality" that plays into conservative ideology: i.e., morality instead of ethics, hegemonic good instead of the public good. There's absolutely no contextualization of why women might think abortion is good and men don't--the article would prefer to conclude that there must be some kind of essential male-ness or female-ness.

Never read a Ken White publication without a healthy dose of skepticism, if not suspicion.

remind remind's picture

wow, when I found the article this morning after caissa was talking of reading the hard copy, there were no comments at all, I could have been the first make a comment....should've.....

remind remind's picture

Yes stargazer, we all know the majority men are so noble and wanting what is best for women......is just that pesky minority that hold us all back....

stellersjay stellersjay's picture

Lawrence’s suggestion that modern men are frustrated and pissed off at the feminist movement and women for so being so pushy agrees with every comment section I’ve seen on every newspaper story I’ve read that touches on women or women’s rights. You want an eyeful, look at the comments on one of Heather Mallick’s columns at CBC.

fortunate

Not having read the whole thing, I will probably only skim over it.  I find it difficult to follow people who make conclusions about "morality" or ethics by trying to suggest we feel more compassionate towards animals than human life when the questions specifically concern abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia and the death penalty.   I can be pro-abortion and anti-animal testing and that does not mean I have no concerns for the sanctity of human life.   Personally, I feel that supporting those 4 things is showing a high regard for human life.  I prefer to not have murderers set free after 20 years, I prefer to have the quality of some people's lives improved thru stem cell research, and I prefer that women have the right to choose abortion, just as I prefer a world where I can end my life legally should I be so terminally ill that the quality of life is more like a living death.   I think a country that provides that, and has a concern that animals should not be needlessly tortured is a civilized one.  

Stargazer

remind wrote:

Yes stargazer, we all know the majority men are so noble and wanting what is best for women......is just that pesky minority that hold us all back....

 

Hey remind, fuck you. How is that for a direct personal attack? Your personal vendetta against me is showing.

You know that is not what I posted, nor what I meant. Now troll on someone else.

remind remind's picture

stellersjay wrote:
Lawrence’s suggestion that modern men are frustrated and pissed off at the feminist movement and women for so being so pushy agrees with every comment section I’ve seen on every newspaper story I’ve read that touches on women or women’s rights. You want an eyeful, look at the comments on one of Heather Mallick’s columns at CBC.

Or Antonia's...

Or actually anywhere in the world, even right here at babble.....

 

Stargazer

I'm going to flag every one of your passive aggressive posts until you learn to be civil and kind. I know, I will be waiting a long long time.

Maybe the mods will finally do something about you.

remind remind's picture

...not sure what you are on about stargazer, but really you need to stop...seriously....

 

Having been at babble for the last 5 years, I have seen many many occasions where men get right hostile with feminists, at best, am not sure why you would be upset with my noting that truth...

Stargazer

remind wrote:

Yes stargazer, we all know the majority men are so noble and wanting what is best for women......is just that pesky minority that hold us all back....

 

This is truth? This is an attack. Plain and simple. Please clarify. Is this what you think I think? Or is this you being sarcastic? Given the level on animosity between us this last month, it would be hard not to take this as an attack. Clear ir up if it wasn't meant as an attack.

remind, you like to tell people to have a look at their behaviour, can you honestly say that you have been engaging in open, clear, dialogue with the majority of posters here? Do you not think that perhaps we need to both dial it back? Or is it just me that needs to do so?

 

remind remind's picture

frankly....was agreeing, in a flip manner in respect to yarg's comment, with this  comment of yours;

Quote:
Women and men are not equal. Women always get the short end of the stick.

 

that was an appropriate response to yarg's;

 

Quote:
It strange that men and women are completely equal in every way until women are found to be superior.

 

 

Stargazer

Aw okay. See what assumptions do?

Slumberjack

Some may point to examples were women have held power, have achieved positions of influence, or have obtained a measure of media notoriety such as Thatcher, Rice, Bachman, Coulter and the like, in order to contradict these findings without acknowledging the overriding structures that completely internalize the thought processes and affect behaviour through association.  It may simply come down to individual geo-political preferences, which in itself flies in the face of typical notions that suggest 'they're all the same.'  One of the survival mechanisms of patriarchy involves ascribing towards women its own worst attributes, which conveniently justifies perpetual control.

MegB

I don't think either sex is more or less inclined toward "morality" - we have different biological imperatives driven by a whole host of endrocrinological specifics, we are incfluenced by our upbringing, our perceptions of ourselves in relation to the other sex, the values imposed on us by society, etc.  We have more in common than not.

I think achieving, as an individual, a certain level of power - corporate or political (or both) requires a base set of personality traits that have nothing to do with sex or gender.  Certainly women face more obstacles, both internalized and external, to achieving power, but the drive and ambition has to be there regardless.

Perhaps the most significant difference is that many women, who may be extraordinarily intelligent, capable and ambitious, lack the sense of entitlement belonging to high-achieving men of lesser abilities.

km1818

Rebecca West]</p> <p> - we have different biological imperatives </p> <p>As in "Biology is destiny" ? (S. Freud)</p> <p>[quote=Rebecca West wrote:

Perhaps the most significant difference is...the sense of entitlement belonging to high-achieving men of lesser abilities.

What exactly is "the sense of entitlement?" I happen to be part of that class of under-achieving men of higher abilities.