Canadian parliament prorogued again: Part 4

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Sun, 2010-01-10 15:16

Polunatic2

Quote:
Maybe that's why we never get what we want becasue we dare not even hope for it.

I hope for an NDP minority as first choice but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have second choices too. I usually enjoy your comments and find them thoughtful Sean but I think you're way off base on this one. I've never worked on an election for an NDP candidate where the message was anything other than "we're going to win this riding" - no matter how ridiculous that was in reality. There is always plenty of "hope" to keep everyone going.

When I've dared to "hope" for stronger positions on some issues, I've get dumped on by NDPers who think I'm unrealistic and that whatever position the party takes is the correct position. So which is it? Not enough hope? Not the right kind of hope? Too much hope?

Shifting the responsibility to yourself and other supporters who just don't "hope" enough is certainly noble but I think it's misguided to blame party supporters for not having enough hope.

Quote:
In the darkest days of any country's experience peole hoped for better even though it was unlikely-- and then things changed.

I guess Canada's First Nations just need to do some more hoping. What I'm reading into this is that it's not enough to hope to get rid of Harper - that we're setting our sights too low. Unless the NDP wins the election (if we hope enough), the outcome really doesn't matter.

Sun, 2010-01-10 15:48

#53

Boom Boom

I vote NDP even though the party has zero chance of getting elected in this riding (Manicouagan). I voted Liberal once because a friend of mine was running for the Libs and it looked like he a chance of knocking off the BQ guy, but that didn't happen - wasn't even close to happening. I get monthly mailings from the BQ, nothing from any of the other parties. I can't even remember the names of the folks currently running for the NDP, Liberals, or Conservatives in this riding, that's how invisible they are.

Sun, 2010-01-10 16:19

#54

Debater

More than 130 political scientists from three dozen Canadian colleges and universities have signed a statement condemning the "inappropriate shutdown"

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/harper-outsmarts-himself-81060002...

Sun, 2010-01-10 16:32

#55

WFPD

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

...if people don't reach by hoping for what they want the compromise will be a compromise on a compromise.You have the power to dream and hope use it to the fullest-- everything else is more difficult. In the darkest days of any country's experience peole hoped for better even though it was unlikely-- and then things changed.

I agree. I almost always vote or the candidate or party that comes closest to representing my ideals. In my riding that means my candidate never gets elected. I vote for them anyway, just to send a message of support to my candidate, and a message of opposition to those whom I disagree with.

Despite this, I am still realistic enough to understand that the NDP will not form the next government, minority or otherwise. "Hope" alone won't make it happen.

Sun, 2010-01-10 16:35

#56

remind

Sean In Ottawa wrote:
if we are going to go for a great new story for the country-- let's imagine a good one not a repeat of the same pendulum going back and forth on the right end of the room. Let the ball come to the people for a change-- and the first step is to hope for that; the second is to believe it is possible, the third is to work to make it possible and the last is to make it come true.

Love this.....

Sun, 2010-01-10 16:47

#57

WFPD

remind wrote:

Sean In Ottawa wrote:
if we are going to go for a great new story for the country-- let's imagine a good one not a repeat of the same pendulum going back and forth on the right end of the room. Let the ball come to the people for a change-- and the first step is to hope for that; the second is to believe it is possible, the third is to work to make it possible and the last is to make it come true.

Love this.....

Cue the inspirational music...

Sun, 2010-01-10 17:38

#58

Sean in Ottawa

I never said hope alone would take us where we want to go-- but you have to aim high before you start to compromise and what you hope for should not be a compromise -- that is the fundamental difference between what you hope for and what you might expect.

I wrote it in the context where the Liberals really have not much of a credible advantage over the NDP -- slighty more popular voe but also a lot of resistance and a leader that is not popular at all-- in that context why hope for them?

Polantic-- your comment about the First Nations is offbase-- It is on many levels but to equate the oppression of the Canadian majority by Harper, a majority that could vote him down if they wanted to, to that of a minority that has been subjected to fundamental racism is bizarre to the extreme. My point remains that if people in places that have no democratic institutions can hope for change -- why can't we? Now perhaps our difference is coming from perspective-- I don't see a return to the Liberals as much progress even with the NDP having a balance of power. Kinda like hoping to be tortured 5 times a day instead of ten-- why not hope for it to stop?

Also I did not at all imply that the outcome of getting rid of Harper does not matter- just that you should not hope so pessimistically it is the best you've got. By all means if you are Liberal hope for a Liberal government. I support the NDP so that is what I hope for even if I have nothing to base an expectation on. This is a philosophical oint-- you cannot start to make somethign come true unless you imagine it actively. Active imagination is hope. Then with that you work to try to realize that.

Sun, 2010-01-10 18:26

#59

Debater

Minister's brother: Harper wants to dodge probe

OTTAWA — The suspension of Parliament until March is under fire from the brother of one of Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s own cabinet colleagues.

Arthur Kent, the younger brother of Minister of State of Foreign Affairs Peter Kent, used his news blog Sunday to charge that Harper prorogued Parliament primarily to stifle discussion of Afghanistan.

“In truth, there has been an unwritten fatwa maintained by the Prime Minister’s Office against discussion of any and all controversial aspects of the Afghan debacle,” wrote the Canadian-born journalist, who became known as the “Scud Stud” for his coverage of the first Iraq war.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/01/10/12412736-qmi.html

Sun, 2010-01-10 18:47

#60

Bookish Agrarian

Sean this is very distilled from what you are saying, to the point that is probably minimizes your excellent points however,...

Very few people want to vote for someone trying to win second place in their riding. Sure one of the strategic goals might be to move into second place, but the hope, the desire, the attempt is to try to carry the day.

Think of it this way. Imagine any sports movie you want. Imagine the cliche heading into THE BIG GAME scene. Now imagine the captian or quarterback saying - "I know we have had a really great run, but really the cause is hopeless so let's go out there and score some moral victories." Kinda blows as a movie moment and so too in politics.

You might not win, but if you don't try you never will.

Sun, 2010-01-10 19:21

#61

Debater

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Things are very fluid-- the Liberals are only 6-12% higher than the NDP in the polls. Layton is more popular than Ignatieff. Why not hope for an NDP minority. Somebody has to win.

I'm not sure which polls you are referring to. It's true that in the fall when the Liberal vote collapsed, that the Liberals were only 6% higher than the NDP, but the 2 recent polls (Ekos and Angus Reid) put the Liberals 12% ahead of the NDP. That's actually a pretty big gap.

You are correct though that Ignatieff's leadership numbers are very weak. The fact that as leader of the official opposition he ranks 3rd in leadership says something. He is a liability for the Liberals rather than an asset.

Sun, 2010-01-10 19:39

#62

Bookish Agrarian

It would take a fool, or a hard core Liberal partisan, to think the current numbers are anything but parking. They will be softer than a new born lamb.

The reality is, thanks to great tactics, but very poor strategy by the Conservatives, we have now entered a very fluid period. No ones numbers will be worth much other than to show the Conservatives have screwed up big time. The real test will be when we start the actual real election. As I have been saying since the moment Iggy became the assumed front runner in the leadership contest he lost that the more people actually see of him the less they will like. Strong leadership numbers heading into that scenario will mean much more than the vote parking that is going on.

IF Iggy can somehow turn that corner the Liberals might have some realistic chance at significant gains, but I highly doubt Iggy is capable of it. He might get handed another gift, but then people would have to actually imagine themselves voting for such a patrician twit. I predict many people will say - uh no thanks - and at that point we will be into uncharted territory.

Sun, 2010-01-10 20:02

#63

Polunatic2

Sean - first, I retract the First Nations analogy. Second, I apologize for putting words in your mouth.

I agree that the "stars are aligned" to some to degree for the NDP given the weaknesses of the liberals. And I hope they can take full advantage of that and win more seats - who knows, maybe even a minority government. But we have this discussion in advance of almost every election. If the NDP could have figured out how to finesse such a position, I'm sure they would have done so already.

The overall popular vote however doesn't mean a thing at the riding level where the elections take place. I have voted NDP in every federal election in St. Paul's in the last 13 years. But it wouldn't matter how hard we worked and how much we hoped, the NDP is just not going to bump off Carolyn Bennett at this time.

And nor do I see that as a priority. Harper has given us so many indications of his anti-democratic bent. Even if there are slim differences between the libs and cons on economic (and other) policy, surely the democracy angle must trump partisan interests at some point, at least in some ridings?

Yes, we should set our sights high. In the next election, it should be for the defeat of the Harper government - whatever it takes. That's my view on it anyway. Harper and the republican right are fond of lecturing us about consequences when they talk about locking people and throwing away the keys. Well, there ought to be consequences to Harper's actions when it comes to proroguing Parliament.

Mon, 2010-01-11 10:28

#64

remind

Interesting news finally coming out about a massacre situation in Afghanistan that occured in December, just before Harper "decided" to prorogue on the 31. In fact, his decision to prorogue came on the same day, as the news release in the Times UK occured.

Can anyone say smoke screen, with a complicit media willing to cover up? Or is it that Harper was afraid this would come out too and add to the war crimes burden? Or both?

It is a deep cover up, in my view, that serves them all on several fronts.

WERE AFGHAN CHILDREN EXECUTED BY US-LED FORCES? AND WHY AREN'T THE MEDIA INTERESTED?

Quote:
Ignoring or downplaying Western crimes is a standard feature of the corporate Western media. On rare occasions when a broadcaster or newspaper breaks ranks and reports 'our' crimes honestly, it is instructive to observe the response from the rest of the media. Do they follow suit, perhaps digging deeper for details, devoting space to profiles of the victims and interviews with grieving relatives, humanising all concerned? Do they put the crimes in perspective as the inevitable consequence of rapacious Western power? Or do they look away?

One such case is a report that American-led troops dragged Afghan children from their beds and shot them during a night raid on December 27 last year, leaving ten people dead. Afghan government investigators said that eight of the dead were schoolchildren, and that some of them had been handcuffed before being killed. Kabul-based Times correspondent Jerome Starkey reported the shocking accusations about the joint US-Afghan operation. But the rest of the UK news media have buried the report.

After details of the massacre first emerged, Afghan President Karzai sent a team of investigators to the alleged scene of the atrocity in the village of Ghazi Kang in eastern Kunar province. Assadullah Wafa, a former governor of Helmand province, led the investigation. He told The Times that US soldiers flew to Kunar from Kabul, implying that they were part of a special forces unit:

Mon, 2010-01-11 10:31

#65

NDPP

PM Creates 'Dictatorial Environment' by Shutting Down Parliament

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view/dictatorial-01-11-2010

"Conservative MP Rick Dykstra (St. Catherines, Ont.) said the issue had nothing to do with prorogation, adding that although he has received several phone calls and emails objecting to the Parliamentary suspension, no constituent has raised the Afghanistan controversy. "I can tell you that I have had zero calls and zero emails from anyone in my constituency about that issue..."

I know he's perfectly capable of lying as easily as a horse trotting on this but I also suspect it could be true. I hope that the issue of participation in the egregious war crimes of the US led Global War on Terror, doesn't get disappeared from the planned protests by the same complicit forces in Parliament that have so far been so successful in circumscribing and limiting it - including the ahem 'opposition'.

Mon, 2010-01-11 10:46

#66

Polunatic2

The continued furor over the prorogation has pushed Harper to do what he does best - attack and counter-attack. In response to a new liberal ad riticizing prorogation (and we can only assume that the libs have jumped on the bandwagon because they see the issue's got some legs), Harper is now equating opposition to prorogation with attacking the troops in Afghanistan. I guess Taliban Jack has now been joined by Al Qaeda Iggy.

Quote:
"The ad campaign renews the Ignatieff Liberals' claim about a "cover-up" of "torture" of Taliban prisoners. Mr. Ignatieff persists in this attack even though the allegation that torture was covered up represents a direct attack on the men and women of Canada's armed forces," the email from the PMO stated.

Mon, 2010-01-11 11:02

#67

remind

In no way does it represent a direct attack on Canadian military persons, it represents a direct attack on Harper and his government.

Mon, 2010-01-11 11:32

#68

Doug

This is rather good news as election are often won or lost on such things:

Raise a glass (and leave your kids) with Jack Layton

According to a new Angus Reid poll, the NDP Leader is considered the best leader to babysit your children and to drink a beer with at your local bar.

Mon, 2010-01-11 12:57

#69

Viking77

remind wrote:

Why are people even thinking of promoting the same 2 parties that have destroyed Canada over the last 40 years?

Canada's destroyed??? looks fine to me.

I don't understand some of these criticisms. A lot of you don't like the government, and then object to them not being in parliament to govern?? wouldn't that be a good thing, seeing as you don't like them? I think less government is always a good thing, but that's just me.

Mon, 2010-01-11 13:10

#70

Boom Boom

The Cons must be feeling the heat over anger caused by the prorogation, because yesterday Heather Hiscox on CBC, just after she did a news piece of the anti-prorogation group reaching 140,000 members, spoke to John Baird about this, and Baird said the government is working hard on the economy while the House is closed. I think the Cons are trying to ignore the anger as best they can.

Mon, 2010-01-11 13:22

#71

ennir

I spoke with a cousin last night that was unaware of the prorogue, I suspect she votes conservative generally but she very quickly got that they are taking a holiday on taxpayer dollars so it is no big surprise to me that that is what they will focus on. I told her about the facebook group and given that she is already on facebook she said she was going to register. I suspect she will be talking to a lot of people.

Mon, 2010-01-11 14:20

#72

Debater

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

PM Creates 'Dictatorial Environment' by Shutting Down Parliament

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view/dictatorial-01-11-2010

"Conservative MP Rick Dykstra (St. Catherines, Ont.) said the issue had nothing to do with prorogation, adding that although he has received several phone calls and emails objecting to the Parliamentary suspension, no constituent has raised the Afghanistan controversy. "I can tell you that I have had zero calls and zero emails from anyone in my constituency about that issue..."

I know he's perfectly capable of lying as easily as a horse trotting on this but I also suspect it could be true. I hope that the issue of participation in the egregious war crimes of the US led Global War on Terror, doesn't get disappeared from the planned protests by the same complicit forces in Parliament that have so far been so successful in circumscribing and limiting it - including the ahem 'opposition'.

Aha! So the Conservatives admit that people have been complaining about the prorogation. Notice how he tried to gloss over that?

Mon, 2010-01-11 14:24

#73

KenS

Boom Boom wrote:

The Cons must be feeling the heat over anger caused by the prorogation, because yesterday Heather Hiscox on CBC, just after she did a news piece of the anti-prorogation group reaching 140,000 members, spoke to John Baird about this, and Baird said the government is working hard on the economy while the House is closed. I think the Cons are trying to ignore the anger as best they can.

I'm sure they can feel the heat. But this Conservative narrative is not a reaction as in "really, we're doing our job."

This is a carefully scripted narrative going straight to the concerns most Canadians have. It has just begun, and there are 8 weeks to the grand finale of the Throne Speech followed the next day by the Budget.

They aren't just 'ignoring the anger the best they can'... they are proceeding with plans to decisively trump it. I'm not saying it will necessarily work, but people are mistaken if they think its sufficient to shout louder.

We lose big time if we just ignore or dismiss Harper's narrative. If the shouting does not include a counter-narrative, Harper will win by default. Movements are good at expressing angry, and even at pulling more and more people in, deveoping counter-narratives is a challenge to say the least.

Mon, 2010-01-11 14:41

#74

Debater

You are right Ken - the opposition can't just oppose the prorogation and do nothing else. They have to come up with an alternative and better set of proposals and policies that they would implement for Canadians compared to the Conservatives.

Mon, 2010-01-11 15:44

#75

remind

Excellent points ken and debator, and one would hope the NDP are at least, as we can see the Liberals only thought is to make negative attacks ads.

yes Viking Canada destroyed, as you are new to Canada perhaps you are unaware of the eroding

Mon, 2010-01-11 15:52

#76

Debater

I think some ads against the Conservatives are justified if they draw attention to the fact that the Conservatives have shut down Parliament, as long as the attack ads do not become the only technique the Liberals use.

There still are some Canadians who aren't aware of the prorogation and so the ads showing a photo of Parliament with a "CLOSED" sign hung by Stephen Harper is justified.

As I said above, I agree with Ken that the Liberals and the NDP have to show Canadians what they are willing to do in terms of economic and employment policies to help people more effectively than the Conservatives are doing.

Mon, 2010-01-11 16:44

#77

Augustus

Canadians will not be particularly interested in the petition against prorogation signed by the 100 university professors.

Professors represent the academic elite and do not speak for the average folks in the population.

Mon, 2010-01-11 17:02

#78

Polunatic2

NDP won't join Liberal plan to protest Harper's suspension of Parliament

Quote:
It looks like the Liberals will be all alone when they return to Parliament Hill for work later this month.

The NDP has no plans to join them in holding hearings and discussions in Ottawa starting Jan. 25 to protest the Harper government's suspension of Parliament.

"We will not be doing what the Liberals are doing," said an NDP source...

"We're formulating a thoughtful, reasonable response," NDP spokesman Rick Boychuk said.

Aside from not joining the Libs, they will be in conflict with the position of the 150,000 facebookers who are demanding that all MPs return to Ottawa.

Mon, 2010-01-11 17:27

#79

remind

Everyone campaigning at the taxpayer's expense nowadays?

Mon, 2010-01-11 17:52

#80

Polunatic2

And, just out of curiosity, what your response be if the NDP had decided to go to back to Ottawa?

Mon, 2010-01-11 18:00

#81

remind

I wasn't aware that they were not planning on being Ottawa, just because they are not joining the Liberals gong show, does not mean that many won't be in Ottawa.

But perhaps they won't be, and will be actioning what they are planning.

use gong show because of the attack ads the Liberals have taken out. They have just discredited whatever they were going to try and do, and made themselves appear exactly like Harper and his Cons.

Mon, 2010-01-11 18:03

#82

Polunatic2

I may have misread the article. I assumed they'd be in their constituencies.

Mon, 2010-01-11 18:12

#83

remind

Well you could be correct, the article only attempts to infer, so maybe they have changed their minds, but from what I read earlier last week, or the week before even, that the NDP stated well before the Liberals did, that they would be in Ottawa, working on issues like Afghanistan detainees etc...

Libby is still back east being a working NDP MP and activist, and was on the news last night even...for example.

The NDP does not need to pretend to do things, they are doing things.

Mon, 2010-01-11 19:38

#84

Bookish Agrarian

I have been profoundly disappointed in the NDP reaction to this, it seems the grassroots of the party is way ahead of the leaders on this one as a great many are involved in demonstrations and so on.

The comments in the artcile linked above leave me even more distressed that those running the party profoundly do not get what is going on and the reaction of the average person.

While the NDP seems to be asleep at the switch Liberals are gearing up to recruit people upset.

Mon, 2010-01-11 20:44

#85

melovesproles

This is the only time I can think of in recent history where the Liberals have done a better job at communications than the NDP.

Mon, 2010-01-11 20:51

#86

Buddy Kat

Maybe during this prorogue period the nDP can start a petition to have Harper and his band of war criminals investigated by the Hague. I remember a class of New Zealand students did the same thing to Bush.....don't know what happened but in this case the signatory's could amount to the 10's of thousands or more much like the face book page.

Keeps the crime in the news at the very least negates his prorogue ploy.

Mon, 2010-01-11 20:51

#87

Buddy Kat

Keeps the crime in the news at the very least negates his prorogue ploy.

Mon, 2010-01-11 21:57

#88

NDPP

Lawyers Against War, upon finding their extensive and exhaustive application to the government of Canada to act according to law with regards to the 'credibly suspected' war criminal George Bush in March 2009 - requested that Jack Layton take up the matter of their application's stonewalling and refusal to act by the government.

the response to Gail Davidson of LAW was a simple one:

"Dear Ms Davidson

On behalf of Mr Layton, thank you for copying our office on the correspondence concerning former President George W Bush's March 17 visit to Canada. Please be advised we will not be following up on this matter.

Sincerely

Office of Jack Layton MP (Toronto Danforth)"

This refusal by the NDP leader to take up the issue of Canada's refusal to obey its own law with regards to Bush, does not auger well for your suggestion but perhaps you can start just such a petition. You might start by contacting Lawyers Against the War at [email protected] for further information on the unhelpfulness of the NDP and also for assistance in the implementation of your idea. Perhaps in addition to Harper, Layton can be added as an accessory.

http://www.lawyersagainstthewar.org/

Mon, 2010-01-11 22:17

#89

WFPD

Harper has bought time for himself, but he will pay a high price for it. He will survive for the moment, but what happens when Parliament resumes? The detainee investigation committee will resume it's work. The demands for documents will continue, and they will be met with the same unsatisfactory response. This will be perfect for the opposition, who can now claim that the government must have something to hide if it went to the extraordinary step of proroging Parliament, and is continuing to stonewall. If the government attempts to close down the committee completely, the public outcry will be much stronger than a few Facebook pages and communiques from academics. This might just be enough to embolden the opposition to support a vote of non confidence.

Mon, 2010-01-11 22:38

#90

NDPP

re: the Detainee issue - this from the LAW website: Letter Re Afghan Prisoner Transfer. December 21, 209

http://www.lawyersagainstthewar.org/letters/LAW_letter_re_Afghan_Prisone...

"Concerned Canadians know that people taken captive in Afghanistan and transferred to either US or Afghan custody are at risk of torture and other grave violations of their internatioally protected rights.

The facts establishing the illegality of the transfer of prisoners have been a matter of public record since at the latest 2004.

Under Canadian and international law, transfer to risk of such happening, violates both Canadian and international law.

Knowledge of the applicable law is presumed..."

Mon, 2010-01-11 23:17

#91

Frmrsldr

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

PM Creates 'Dictatorial Environment' by Shutting Down Parliament

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view/dictatorial-01-11-2010

"Conservative MP Rick Dykstra (St. Catherines, Ont.) said the issue had nothing to do with prorogation, adding that although he has received several phone calls and emails objecting to the Parliamentary suspension, no constituent has raised the Afghanistan controversy. "I can tell you that I have had zero calls and zero emails from anyone in my constituency about that issue..."

I know he's perfectly capable of lying as easily as a horse trotting on this but I also suspect it could be true.

Thanks for posting this, No Diff... Conservative MP Stockwell Day (Okanagan-Similkameen) wrote a very similar letter in the local paper. None of the 'information' (I use this word in its loosest possible meaning) he used was his own, but was plagiarized from Defense Minister Peter MacKay and former Chief of Defense, former General Rick Hillier. This confirms my suspicion: Day and all the other Conservative MPs read/spoke/wrote from a script written by Harper or a PMO spokesperson. The purpose was for the MPs to go to their ridings during the holidays and disseminate their spin through the local media, see what kind of response they got back to feel the pulse of the people in their ridings. Report the response back to Harper. Harper used this feedback to decide his next move: The feedback was that most Canadians are outraged by Torturegate.

Harper's response? Prorogation in the hope that by March most Canadians will have forgotten and Torturegate will be defused by then. I think the Conservatives are scared shitless over Torturegate. In their words, they are just using bluff, bluster and bullshit to hide this fact.

Their crime was violating the Geneva Conventions. Let us not compound this crime by letting them get away with it and thereby grievously tarnish the good name of our country.

Mon, 2010-01-11 23:21

#92

Frmrsldr

Polunatic2 wrote:

The continued furor over the prorogation has pushed Harper to do what he does best - attack and counter-attack. In response to a new liberal ad riticizing prorogation (and we can only assume that the libs have jumped on the bandwagon because they see the issue's got some legs), Harper is now equating opposition to prorogation with attacking the troops in Afghanistan. I guess Taliban Jack has now been joined by Al Qaeda Iggy.
Quote:
"The ad campaign renews the Ignatieff Liberals' claim about a "cover-up" of "torture" of Taliban prisoners. Mr. Ignatieff persists in this attack even though the allegation that torture was covered up represents a direct attack on the men and women of Canada's armed forces," the email from the PMO stated.

Here we go with this bullshit again. Like the "Little Boy Who Cried Wolf" if you use a tactic too often, it wears thin and then backfires.

Mon, 2010-01-11 23:29

#93

Frmrsldr

Buddy Kat wrote:

Maybe during this prorogue period the nDP can start a petition to have Harper and his band of war criminals investigated by the Hague. I remember a class of New Zealand students did the same thing to Bush.....don't know what happened but in this case the signatory's could amount to the 10's of thousands or more much like the face book page.

Keeps the crime in the news at the very least negates his prorogue ploy.

OUTSTANDING IDEA, BUDDY KAT!

Mon, 2010-01-11 23:56

#94

NDPP

Parliament Prorogued to Shut Down Aghan Inquiry: Flanagan (vid)

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Politics/ID=1383056826

"Everybody knows that the Parliament was prorogued in order to shut down the Afghan Inquiry...": Flanagan - CBC Power Panel

Tue, 2010-01-12 00:05

#95

WFPD

Augustus wrote:

Canadians will not be particularly interested in the petition against prorogation signed by the 100 university professors.

Professors represent the academic elite and do not speak for the average folks in the population.

What makes you so certain that Canadians consider the "academic elite" to hold ideas that are alien to "average folks"? This is not an esoteric discussion about obscure matters. It is a fundamental discussion about governance in a democracy. Most "average folks" are concerned with such matters, especially if they are part of the educated and politically engaged voter demographic.

Tue, 2010-01-12 00:37

#96

Debater

remind wrote:

I wasn't aware that they were not planning on being Ottawa, just because they are not joining the Liberals gong show, does not mean that many won't be in Ottawa.

But perhaps they won't be, and will be actioning what they are planning.

use gong show because of the attack ads the Liberals have taken out. They have just discredited whatever they were going to try and do, and made themselves appear exactly like Harper and his Cons.

remind, you are letting your dislike of all things Liberal come through. You don't have to like them, but it's important to be objective. The reality is that as stated by others on this thread, so far the Liberals are doing a better job than the NDP in handling the prorogation controversy.

I'm also not sure why you are so against the Liberal ads. They are merely pointing out the truth - Harper has shut down Parliament for his own self-interest. Even right-wing newspapers like 'The Economist' agree.

Tue, 2010-01-12 00:49

#97

Frmrsldr

Debater wrote:

I'm also not sure why you are so against the Liberal ads. They are merely pointing out the truth - Harper has shut down Parliament for his own self-interest. Even right-wing newspapers like 'The Economist' agree.

Yes, I think the only thing that can be said about this point is that perhaps the NDP doesn't have the money that the Liberals have to spend on such ads. Hopefully the NDP works these Conservative follies to the best of its advantage.

Tue, 2010-01-12 00:54

#98

Debater

Excerpt from today's editorial in The Chronicle Herald:

"the Grits have now countered with superior optics: Liberals at work while Tories play games"

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Editorial/1161681.html

Tue, 2010-01-12 01:00

#99

Fidel

Polunatic2 wrote:

And, just out of curiosity, what your response be if the NDP had decided to go to back to Ottawa?

And I imagine the NDP would be interested if and when the Liberals ever decide to bring down the government in a vote of non confidence. Until then, the Liberals are dancing with themselves and propping up the Tories as usual.

Tue, 2010-01-12 01:22

#100

Debater

Harper underestimates Facebook at his own peril

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-underestimates-faceb...

Tue, 2010-01-12 02:23

#101

CanadianAlien

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Parliament Prorogued to Shut Down Aghan Inquiry: Flanagan (vid)

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Politics/ID=1383056826

"Everybody knows that the Parliament was prorogued in order to shut down the Afghan Inquiry...": Flanagan - CBC Power Panel

Harpers's Flanagan-dad "i hope people don't think i am a Harper stooge anymore" .. pfft .. give us a break Mr. "First Nations people are immigrants like everyone else so should have no special rights" ....

Flanagan-dad said "everyone knows that the reason for Harper pro-roguing was the Afghanistan issue" ... sounds like he is slagging Harper .. but wait .. Flanagan-dad then says he thinks it is right that Harper should shut down any pariamentary discussion on the Afghanistan issue, just be up front about it. Then he goes on to show his partisan stripes "..NDP doesn't believe in force .." and "Liberals started Aghanistan sothey shouldn't be talking .."

Once again, Flanagan-dad strikes out in deceiptful defense of his Harper-son, but is really trying to create narrative space in which Harper can manuever.

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