Is it time for another "Slave Revolt" in Haiti?

NorthReport wrote:

One thing that is needed though is to have Canada's organized labourers, the people who actually work on demolition projects for a living, and who have the expertise to work in these kind of situations, immediately sent there by our federal government when disaster strikes like it has in Haiti.

What if they don't want to go?  Do you just go from construction site to construction site with a press gang and round-up "recruits"?

That's the beauty of the military and the police - the government can tell them what to do.

So you assume that no one would help if they were given the federal OK to do so. IE not losing their job back home for time away and gettin a lift ticket there?
Yes the non civilians who do boot kicking instead of brick laying. Surely ordering COMBAT soldiers to a disaster will fix everything. It should be the engineering corp if anything, not ground pounders.

Great logic there AJ

Are looters a problem?  Are the Haitian police and army able to provide security?  I don't know why they need 11'000 soldiers.

E.Tamaran wrote:

WTF is ur prob? Upset that I called your precious police officers pigs? Get hasseled enough times by the pigs and you'll be calling them pigs to.

People like you just make it worse.

SparkyOne wrote:

Are looters a problem?  Are the Haitian police and army able to provide security?  I don't know why they need 11'000 soldiers.

Yeah, being informed of the facts won't help. The military is there. In fact every Haitian problem has not been solved by guys with guns since the marines first invaded back in the early 1900s. And they've done such a fine fucking job haven't they? Neo-liberalism and assholes with guns have been terrific for Haiti. An eighty per cent poverty rate, a ruined ecology, a ruined agricultural sector, no infrastructure, no public health, and not even ambulances to carry the injured. But, hey, huge profits for US textile corporation and the pernanent transfer of what little wealth Haitians can deviop to crooked white assholes on Wall St.

What makes life worse for Haitians is ignorant jerks who would inflict upon them more of what has been inflicted one them for some 200 years.

SparkyOne, I have a RIGHT to call them pigs to their faces if I want to. Freedom of expression and all that. Censoring ourselves for fear that the pigs are going to retaliate is ultimately self defeating. Listen up! Pigs are nothing more than the ruling classes tools of oppression. They aren't here to help us but to hurt us. Do they even try to find the guy who raped a sex trade worker? No. Do they try to understand someones problem before deploying a taser and killing him at an airport? No they don't. Do they treat every one equally? Hah! You know the answer to that one. And yet you get all upset over a WORD. That's messed up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigl A history of US involvement in Haiti.

Sorry, just learning  www.huffingtonpost.com/...quigley/why-the-us-owes-haiti-bil_b_426260.html

SparkyOne wrote:

Teaching  tolerance racial and gender sensitivity has to start somewhere and it's not at the tip of your middle finger.

Finally the source of your opposition to the word "pig": It's racially and gender insensitive to the pigs to call them pigs. And all these years I thought that calling them pigs was a way to express contempt towards a force of oppression. By the way, I did a quick search to see who else on this site calls them pigs. There's a moderator and a couple a prolific posters among many others:

Michelle: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/10-year-old-doesnt-want-take-shower-arkansas-its-taser-time

Boom Boom: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/out-and-about/whats-happening-locally-2

G-Muffin: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/news-rest-us/they-tell-me-im-straight-white-crazy-woman

Guess we're all wrong to call them pigs.

E.Tamaran wrote:

Finally the source of your opposition to the word "pig": It's racially and gender insensitive to the pigs to call them pigs.

Other way around. It's called not giving them ammunition. I want the police to treat me a human being and not "just some nigger" or a bitch. That starts by not letting them justify treating us like shit.  Maybe you'll understand when you're older.

Quote:

There's a moderator and a couple a prolific posters among many others:

Guess we're all wrong to call them pigs.

That wasn't the thread where you said good 4 less pigs when the police officers were mudered in the states a couple of months ago and neither the mods nor fellow babblers thought it was a very smart thing to say was it?  Yes I think it's still stupid and not helping police - community relations.

The Planet's Plates Created an Earthquake: The Global System Made it A Disaster

http://kasamaproject.org/2010/01/17/haiti-u-s-puppets-intrigues-and-drea...

"US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the tragedy of this earthquake was that Haiti had been doing so well. What she referred to was an imperialist campaign, spearheaded by her husband Bill Clinton, to consolidate a conservative Haitian government and prepare the workforce for sweatshop investments..

We need to discuss Aristide, Lavalas and the sharp political questions facing Haiti's people - including the roads toward the kind of radical revolution and social change that Haiti and the Caribbean so clearly need."

SparkyOne wrote:

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Whether you call them pigs or not shouldn't matter. What should matter and what is more telling than any single epithet, is that others would worry for their safety and well being from those who "enforce the law" because they can't contenance a meaningless insult from an anonymous poster on a message board. If it's true, that we really should fear them, what does that say about our justice system and those that enforce our laws?

I'm talking about in person not on the internet.

That is irrelevant. The subtext to your argument is that cops are racist thugs who will mistreat and abuse women and people of color, with impunity, as the perception of a slight so insignificant as a mere verbal insult. In that sense, you are expressing a lower opinion of law enforcement than anyone expressing the word "pig". Worse than that your advice appears to be "shut up and don't make it worse".

You're right FM. My bad.  I don't think calling cops pigs when dealing with them is an excellent way to work towards mutual respect but that's just my opinion.

  Moving on I'm watching the news and seen some footage from Haiti of the relief aid being handed out it looked like a riot.

They think the death toll might be 200'000? Why is this number so high? Is it because of the buildings and their construction quality or is that number so high from starvation and no access to water and medicine?

4000 inmates escaped prison and roaming the streets.  Reports of gangs of looters with machetties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYShPX1clYw&feature=related

Scary

nussy wrote:

Canadians have been flying in and out of Haiti carrying food, water, medical supplies and medical people.

Canada was one of the first to help including a Dart team. There is no place for more planes to land and the harbour is full. You just dont show up. Canadians were there the next morning. Check your facts.

The looting is getting bad it seems as we watch TV with the Haitian police out with guns and shooting!

So I guess we (Canadiamn Government)  really couldn't have done any better?

Except for the small Dart Team and private NGO'S that have crossed in from the Dominican Republic, I just hear about the military on stand by or enroute. Could they really have not dropped relief item from Helicopters? Would it cause riots

We see pictures on tv when trucks try to hand out water or food riots start. We also saw a disturbing picture in a Toronto newspaper about people beating a man to death and setting him on fire while he was still breathing.

The Police force did nothing to stop it. I don't know how they will solve it but security is needed and fast. The supplies are there sitting on the tarmac in the airport.

The Military from many countries with their engineers are having problems. The airport is small and they cant land too many planes. The port is full of ships. All that aid and yet the streets are still clogged. They simply cant get through. It's plainly visible on TV. 

If you don't trust CNN look at BBC, same pictures. I wonder if you can move your house in one day. Takes planning. 

The security are soldiers from South America for the most part. Bolivia is hardly an imperialistic nation. It's easy to sit back in our cosey chairs sipping coffee and poke holes in everything. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/cruise-ships-haiti-earthquake

Does not look right to me. There is a Yiddish word for that. CHUTZPA.  

Quote:

The US military's takeover of emergency operations in Haiti has triggered a diplomatic row with countries and aid agencies furious at having flights redirected.

Brazil and France lodged an official ­protest with Washington after US military aircraft were given priority at Port-au-Prince's congested airport, forcing many non-US flights to divert to the Dominican Republic.

Brasilia warned it would not ­relinquish command of UN forces in Haiti, and Paris complained the airport had become a US "annexe", exposing a brewing power struggle amid the global relief effort. The Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières also complained about diverted flights.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/us-accused-aid-effort-haiti

East et al - on the surface your comments seem practical and fairminded and I want to preface my response with the point that I am criticizing your expressed ideas and NOT your person, ok? You seem likeable.

Why must we on the left politicize what is surely a textbook humanitarian mission, etc etc? In which our brave boys and girls in uniform get in there, save lives, treat the sick and injured, maybe fix a few pumps, restore a little electricity, then head home after handing over to a grateful civil administration amidst touching displays of undying gratitude from the poor but noble Haitians, our new soulmates in the Caribbean.

We dont care to look too closely at the selfserving fantasies our elites cocoon us in: they're competently presented, make us feel good about ourselves and our country, and like all good lies are seasoned with enough truth to pass superficial scrutiny.

The Canadian national relief mission is being heavily exploited as an opportunity to promote the new militarism the federal government is throwing half a trillion dollars at. Its a con job because Canada has no military threats on the planet, none, zero, nada, zip, diddly, geddit? - and has no need of a defence department. Search and rescue? Emergency relief? Go for it.

Photographs of Canadian soldiers doing good work in Haiti are a blessing to the Harperkinder because they distract from the inquiry into just what our military has been up to in Afghanistan. They'd be fools to pass the opportunity up, thats just politics. Two weeks ago an American Special Forces team entered an Afghan village at night, rounded up a dozen teenage boys aged 12 to 17, handcuffed them, led them outside and shot them dead, then presumably flew off home for a hero's breakfast, job well done and all that. Turns out it was all a bit of an oopsie. Wrong village or something. Look it up. Thats what soldiers do, thats the REALITY, their core purpose, that's why the automatic weapons; give your head a shake.

As for your comment on imperialist coups, why dont you read some of the links littered about this thread and actually get up to speed on the backstory before sharing your opinions? If my English was as sophomoric as your insights hir yewed B reeding proze lighk this, itz fuckin imberessing.

You THINK you have an informed opinion, when youre just regurgitating from the same tiny pool of reality-suppressing tribal fictions that millions of other equally uninformed Canadians are exchanging with one another in the mistaken belief they're involving themselves in something other than a collective hallucination. Human events in the reality-based world happen in time-based geopolitical contexts. There IS a connection between the repeated meddlings and interventions of western powers in Haiti and its continuing status as basket case of the western world and this does not cease to be the case simply because you havent bothered to learn about it.

Quit the politics indeed. Try learning some. The video at #30 should clear up a few untruths.

The C 17 - what do you actually know about this? It is not simply a 'cargo aircraft' it is a purpose-built military aircraft originally designed to transport American main battle tanks and other ordnance to the European theater in the event of a third world war. The problem plagued design program completed years after deadline and billions over budget though performance is now said to be satisfactory - once the specs were downgraded.

At nearly a quarter billion per plane it is approximately ten times more expensive than the comparable Russian Antonov aircraft which in some ways outperforms it. But the latter is a Russian aircraft and the Alberta Nazis have a 1950s' era comprehension of international relations so Canada gets the Boeing C17, instead of a national child care program, a credible environmental program or whatever else you can whip up with two to three billion.

Jean Bertrand Aristide: Message of Hope and Solidarity

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17018

"As far as we are concerned, we are ready to leave today, tomorrow, at any time to join the people of Haiti..

Friends from around the world have confirmed their willingness to organize an airplane carrying medical supplies, emergency needs, and ourselves.

While we cannot wait to be with our sisters and brothers in Haiti, we share the anguish of all Haitians in the Diaspora who are desperate to reach family and loved ones..."

All the more reason we should be working through the UN, as I don't think many Canadians would accept orders from a foreign soldier on Canadian soil, so why should Hailtians accept orders from foreign troops unless it is done through the UN.  

When it comes time to rebuild let's get our organized labour, you know the people that actually build our highrises, our dams, etc.,to ensure among other things, that rebar is used to reinforce their concrete, and earthquake proof their buildings as much as possible. Also all communities that are earthquake prone, such as Canada and Haiti, need to set up emergency supply depots with things like water, food, blankets, etc. 

And if we are going to send aid, let's send things like steel from our idle steel plants and put Canadian workers to work at the same time. Someone mentioned this on Cross Canada Check-up today and I thought it was a brilliant suggestion.

Canadian Military Team Heading to Haiti - 1000 strong contingent to arrive this week

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/01/17/haiti-canadian-deployment.html

"Cannon said Sunday afternoon that he spent an hour on the phone with key players helping Haiti, including Haitian Prime Minister Jean Max Bellerive and foreign ministers from the 16 countries that make up the Group of Friends of Haiti.

The group which includes the United States, Mexico and several Central and South American countries, begins talks on long-term reconstruction efforts and has agreed to a reconstruction conference in Montreal on January 25.."

recolonization conference - Aristide won't be invited.

Isn't 25 January the date parliament was supposed to reconvene?

Can't be - Harper wouldn't be that low and opportunistic now, could he.