Ontario NDP Education Task Force starts

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection,

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection, but

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection, but their activists

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection, but their activists and supporters

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection, but their activists and supporters are busy

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party. 

I believe they will be rewarded again as it appears that the NDP have the strongest challenger in the TO byElection, but their activists and supporters are busy on this

madmax wrote:

OL12. The only party "rewarded" was the Liberal Party.

You're right about that madmax, but they were rewarded in 2007 because there was no big-3-party champion for the religious school funding option the public wanted -- one school system.  If the January 2007 NDP policy resolution for one school system had actually made it past party screeners to the convention floor and passed, the NDP would have had one of their most successful elections rather than one of their worst.

They needn't make the same mistake in 2011.  Little chance the theocratic Tories or the Catholics-first-and-only Liberals will split the one school system vote with them.

I hve often heard NDP supporters bemoaning the fact that the OSS debate dominated the election debate of 2007 and their party couldn't get a (good) word in sidewise.

The sad truth is the NDP brought this on itself. By not distinquishing itself from the Liberals on the education-funding issue, all it could do was pop up occasionally to say 'we too'. By not having a program that stood for the end of privilege, the NDP was in no position to criticize the hypocracy of the Liberals - because it was 'hoist on its own petard'.

What will the next election look like? One can visualize Hudak going on a spree complaining about high taxes, large deficits, health cuts, unbloodied civil servants etc -. His appeal will be to the same ugly old men that form the base of Harris' and Harper's support. He will dodge any reference to the ill-fated attempt to award his religious lobbyist/base with public monies for their schools. That may very well work as the Liberals are notoriously weak at explaining their nuanced programs.

So it may come to a place where McQuinty and company may have to use the education funding card. Of course McQuinty wouldn't want to have it raised any more than he did last time, and one would, as a first response, expect his controlling Catholic lobby to do everything it can to stop the issue coming up again. But if you are about to lose power, you do what you have to do.

Actually a more sinister mind (mine) would ask whether the Catholic lobby would not want to have Hudak succeed so that his eventual program of small but incremental funding to other religions (as mentioned by OL12) will serve Catholic interests more as they then have cover. (Lookout Dalton!)

(As a side issue the Greens will be very happy to tell the world that they support OSS. And why not? It brought them up to be close contenders to the NDP in 2007 and in the 2009 Lindsay by-election as they now are more often to place third in areas of strong conservative (small c) support.

So where does that leave the NDP? Their closest competitor is making hay on the OSS issue; they are indistinquishable from the Liberals on the issue; and they may find themselves being crowded out if switching occurs to stop the Tory hoard from pulling a Harris 2, or they may be poached of Catholic supporters if the church decides the Conservatives are best for them. And of course a far right government in Ontario is a major problem for a range of NDP support groups.

If any NDP member thinks the NDP is going to make inroads against the ultra-conservatives in a time of (global) economic contraction or Liberals skewering the Tory track record of public funding for private interests, or a major religious block switching anywhere but the NDP, I would like to know where they will have a vote-getting alternative policy?

It might just be - as I argued above - that the answer to both trumpeting a distinct brand which can stop the Liberals sidelining the party again, and hurt the Tories like last election, and stop a major squeeze play by the large parties - is the OSS card.

Of course, failure to properly position the NDP for the next election won't be due to the NDP grassroots as they want to adopt the socially just option of OSS, but it will be laid at the feet of the OECTA-dominated inner circle. 

Yeah, too bad bigots such as yourself cannot see the wisdom in appointing a Catholic to counter the effect of Hudak's Catholic following. Without your type, it would all be unnecessary out there in the land of the Great Unread.

"demokrat":

"If any NDP member thinks the NDP is going to make inroads against the ultra-conservatives in a time of (global) economic contraction or Liberals skewering the Tory track record of public funding for private interests, or a major religious block switching anywhere but the NDP, I would like to know where they will have a vote-getting alternative policy?"

How about policies aimed at overcoming the need for seniors to visit breadbanks? Or the unemployed to seek work at wages that will have them visiting breadbanks?

Again, your concerns are somewhat removed from basic life questions here, questions of stomach contraction in your time of "global economic contraction." The next electon will not be fought on abstractions.

First you have to get elected in a province still inhabited by too many religious bigots. When the religiious leaders invite rationalization of the school (building) scene in the name of feeding the hungry, then will be the time to engage in your naive (if well-meaning) political gambit.  But I don't see that kind of moral purity at work out there, just a huge, deep ignorance wrapped about with self-absorption.

Victor: I appreciate your concern for help for the have-nots of Ontario. I too notice the signs of poverty where I travel in my city and elsewhere. Probably like yourself I and my family have been both involved with helping the poor, and in my son'd case, teaching to children in an inner city school. For some their only priced possession is their teacher's love.

I recently was at a social function and was able to speak to the director of a well-funded community organization that seeks to rescue such poor, pre-school, children, both with love but also with the information that they can help themselves. I think that would be a great program to interface with the schools so that such children actually entered school with a positive attitude and the knowlege that they actually have a future..

We have a choice. We either continue to ask individuals and businesses to donate to alleviate poverty or we find tax-payers money to invest in poor children.

A one school system - with adjustments (such as in Toronto, Peel and York) to make the resulting boards of manageable size (studies show an optimum size of 50 to 80000 students) - will save the Ontario taxpayers about $1B.

Those kind of savings go a long way to helping alleviate some of Ontario's social injustices.

 As for electability, the NDP could get a jump on the Tories by promising it will invest the savings from creating a one school system in areas of acute social need.

CNW Group Portfolio E-Mail  

Ontario English Catholic Teachers' Association

Transmitted by CNW Group on : January 18, 2010 16:13

Catholic Teachers welcome Minister Leona Dombrowsky to Education

TORONTO, Jan. 18 /CNW/ - Ontario's Catholic Teachers welcome Leona Dombrowsky who was named Ontario Minister of Education during a cabinet shuffle today.

"We are confident that we will forge a constructive and productive relationship with our new Minister of Education, and look forward to working with her in this capacity," says James Ryan, president of the Ontario English Catholic Teachers' Association (OECTA). "Her experience as Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs since 2005 and as a former trustee and chairperson of the Algonquin Lakeshore Catholic School Board will serve her well.

"We wish Minister Wynne well in her new portfolio," Ryan says. Ryan says that recent education accomplishments "were enhanced by frequent consultation with all education stakeholders including teachers and parents. Minister Wynne's previous experience as a school trustee, and as Founder of Toronto's Metro Parent Network and also of Citizens for Local Democracy, honed her understanding of the importance of cooperation and dialogue."

OECTA represents the 45,000 women and men who teach from kindergarten through high school in Ontario's publicly funded English Catholic schools. www.oecta.on.ca

-30-

For further information: James Ryan, President, (416) 925-2493 X 418 (office) or Mobile: (416) 400-8327  

Darwin.

RevolutionPlease wrote:

Equality.  Catholiics are no minority.  I'm guilty, raised as one.  What a frickin' joke people keep defending this charade.

Except that it is not at all funny.  It is so discriminatory.  It is so wasteful.  It creates such a mess of our school system, with kids being bussed out of their own communities and segregated from kids not like them.  It threatens one-school communities, which by definition have half their child population bussed out of town to the "other" type of school, with the loss of their only remaining school.  It threatens the health of far more important social programs that might be adequately funded if we weren't wasting so much money on dual overlapping school systems.

Regarding minorities, at 34% of the population (2001 Census -- the last to include religious data), Catholics are the largest religious group in the province and arguably the least in need of special privileges or preferential treatment.

The only discrimination our Charter of Rights (Section 15 Equality Rights) recognizes as legitimate is discrimination designed to ameliorate a disadvantage faced by an identifiable group (affirmative action, for example).  What disadvantage do Ontario Catholics suffer today?  Absolutely none.  The discrimination in our school system does not ameliorate a disadvantage, it creates a relative disadvantage for non-Catholics, who have less choice and fewer employment opportunities in the education sector.  That sort of discrimination is an obscenity.

What will help me with MY anger, ndpman, is when your church as an institution stops viewing me and every other woman like second class citizens, when they keep their rosaries off my ovaries, quits promoting hatred against queer people and worrying more about the pedophiles in their ranks that the leaders among them have been shielding for decades, and quits contributing to the deaths of millions in Africa by lying to them about condoms not preventing the spread of HIV and AIDS.

I know, it's kind of a tall order, but maybe when your church leaders get around to fixing some of that shit, you'll have reason to be smug and self-satisfied about what a wonderful institution it is.

BTW, didn't anyone tell you that pride is a sin?  Telling others to "grow as people" while talking about how wonderful you are has been addressed by your god:

Matthew 7:1-5

Have a lovely day.

Yeah, demokrat...and I'm sure espousing that on the hustings would get you elected in a heartbeat.

Unionist, thanks for the heads-up. Sometimes it is better to stand and fight than flee.

Our problem isn't the folks who feel compelled to defend their church (when the maintenace of their religion isn't the issue) but the organized interference with our elected officials by the well-oiled Catholic lobby. In the NDP case before us it is the control that the Catholic teacher's union, OECTA, has on its leadership.

The shame for Ontario is that we are more likely to have a newspaper article on someone in Quebec complaining about their Catholic school having to drop its one only religion class and not teach about all religions than we are about the one school system issue in Ontario.

One wonders how the Ontario press have become so uncurious about a topic that literally held Ontario and Canada captivated during the 2007 provincial election.

We in Ontario who promote a one school system wouldn't mind a little verbal heckling from Quebec about a not-so-free press in Ontario - and MPPs who can't even mention the topic in public. The lack of major people - academics, business leaders, school trustees, public school unions - to get behind non-sectarian public education - is a sign of just how weak Ontario's democracy really is.

And Ontario sets itself up as a model of democracy - and can't even publicly discuss the privileged public funding of one religion's schools.

Some of this is understandable because of the initial vicious counter-attacks - I got called an Orangeman - by Catholics and not everyone can take such insults.

Viva Quebec.

NDPman:

Aren't you missing some very large point?

Are people who believe in worshiping the same god as you another way 'promoting liberatism of anarchy'? Or do they feel that the common element, Christ, would not be going around today offering privileges to some and not others?

It is my life-experince that we have too many Christian versions of the truth, but not enough Christians

Hell, my life experiences have exposed me to several other main religions, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Sikism, Orthodoxy and a whole lot of other races. Each had a code of values that would match those in Christianity.

Why do we need to hold onto just one version of the truth when we can learn more and grow more by openly welcoming and respecting our diversity?

 And maybe the truth is not to be found in religion at all. Perhaps it lurks in the social justice of our interactions with others - a universal law of inter-human respect.

Peter Cassidy:

Great questions about mechanics. I will study them and get back in due time.