I spent a term as CFS-O Chair. My observation is that very few people who go into student government do it out of self-interest.
lmfao.
Ditto.
Why must I be inconvenienced by workers unhappy in their jobs?
Thu, 2010-01-21 06:54
#52
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:21
#53
Any wish to provide a more detailed critique of my comment RP or G. Muffin? I'm happy to engage you in debate over this issue.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:27
#54
RevolutionPlease
There's no debate, any assertion that people seek office over self-interest is delusional.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:43
#55
There's no debate, any assertion that people seek office over self-interest is delusional.
What RP said. And there is no such thing as Free Will. And Mac, not PC. Anything else will have to wait until I have some coffee.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:43
#56
Given the syntax of your sentence are you suggesting your position is delusional? I'm truly confused.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:47
#57
RP? Can you take this one for the team, please?
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:50
#58
RevolutionPlease
What's wrong with the syntax? I stand by what I said. Are you sure your sytax isn't allowing for a non one tracked mind?
Confused, still?
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:51
#59
Never was. That's the problem. I think everything makes sense. And that's a dangerous way to live.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:52
#60
RevolutionPlease
There's no debate, any assertion that people seek office over self-interest is delusional.And Mac, not PC.
I can't afford Mac, wish I could.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:53
#61
Same here.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:56
#62
Maybe the problem is the use of the word "over". The sentence seems to say that it is delusional to believe someone seeks office for reasons of self-interest. I think you are meaning to make the opposite assertion.
Thu, 2010-01-21 07:56
#63
RevolutionPlease
Never was. That's the problem. I think everything makes sense. And that's a dangerous way to live.
It's probably not helpful but this is the best thing I've read in a long time. [looking at everyone]
Thu, 2010-01-21 08:02
#64
RevolutionPlease
Maybe the problem is the use of the word "over". The sentence seems to say that it is delusional to believe someone seeks office for reasons of self-interest. I think you are meaning to make the opposite assertion.
"people seek office over self-interest is delusional."
I'm saying if you think people seek offiice for a purpose higher than self-interest is delusional. Open your mind. I thought it was obvious and you seemed to get the message. Why so obstinate?
Thu, 2010-01-21 08:16
#65
I'm not being obstinate. Thank you for being clear. So are you suggesting that seeking office is always self-interested and that office seekers never do so out of a sense of service or altruism?
All I can say is in my 5 years of student politics I saw many leaders fighting on behalf of their constituents. Even when I disagreed ideologically with many of these leaders, I had to concede that from their world-view, one I found and find abhorent, what they were advocating made sense.
Thu, 2010-01-21 08:24
#66
RevolutionPlease
I agree with your last sentence to a degree. And, yes, I don't believe any "office seeker" does so out of one hint of altruism, much as they'd like to sell it otherwise.
Note, "office seeker", is a whole other thread. People can be good but I've not a lot of faith. Darn religion again.
Thu, 2010-01-21 08:58
#67
I'm saying if you think people seek offiice for a purpose higher than self-interest is delusional.
RP, please allow me.
RP is saying that if you (Caissa) think people seek office for a purpose higher than self-interest, then you (Caissa) must be delusional. RP and I know that you are not delusional. Therefore, you must simply be wrong.
Thu, 2010-01-21 08:59
#68
So are you suggesting that seeking office is always self-interested
Yes.
and that office seekers never do so out of a sense of service or altruism?
And No.
Thu, 2010-01-21 09:01
#69
All I can say is in my 5 years of student politics I saw many leaders fighting on behalf of their constituents. Even when I disagreed ideologically with many of these leaders, I had to concede that from their world-view, one I found and find abhorent, what they were advocating made sense.
I know you well enough, Caissa, not to be troubled by such a bland assertion. Advocates Make Sense.
Thu, 2010-01-21 09:05
#70
"bland assertion"?
Thu, 2010-01-21 09:08
#71
"bland assertion"?
Didn't mean to offend. Just pointing out that even, for instance, a BC Liberal has a good idea once in a while.
Thu, 2010-01-21 10:31
#72
Catchfire
Don't mistake narcissism for self-interest. I've met several narcissistic student politicians who genuinely believed they were defending students (sometimes from other students, but that's another topic).
Anyway, now a thread ostensibly on union-bashing has evolved through a union vs student ftw to full-on student bashing. Maybe this thread should be closed, since bringing it back "on topic" would take too many posts as to put us past the virtual threshold.
Thu, 2010-01-21 10:39
#73
Maybe bringing it back might begin with recognizing that workers and students share in the primary purpose of colleges/universities: the creation, preservation and distribution of knowledge. These are societal goods and should be funded from the public purse accordingly.
Thu, 2010-01-21 11:29
#74
Maybe bringing it back might begin with recognizing that workers and students share in the primary purpose of colleges/universities: the creation, preservation and distribution of knowledge. These are societal goods and should be funded from the public purse accordingly.
Might as well ban me from this thread, then, Caissa.
Thu, 2010-01-21 11:30
#75
Don't mistake narcissism for self-interest.
Up until now, I honestly believed these were two terms for the same trait (tray).
Thu, 2010-01-21 11:34
#76
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
To return to the article at hand, take note of the season in which it was written: Post-Xmas mayhem, the season of hell for retail workers.
Those retail workers are overwhelmed during this time, both by the number of customers and transactions they must deal with, and the hours they are forced to work.
If they are lucky, they might actually get paid for some overtime hours; but more likely, they are simply forced to do them in order to maintain their jobs, as such things as cleaning and inventories are deemed to be tasks necessary to successful completion of their daily duties, but of course, given the throngs of shoppers, these tasks cannot be undertaken during normal hours.
Those hours now extend from 8 or 9AM to 10 or even 12PM, 7 days a week, from the middle of November into the first week of January (for the consumer orgy known as Boxing Week). So on top of their overtime, paid or unpaid, their schedule now has them working every weekend, and up at 6AM for openings, home at 12 or 1 or 2AM after closing (and completing the reconciliation and restocking and other necessities).
Who's being inconvenienced here, again?
Fri, 2010-01-22 01:38
#77
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Maybe bringing it back might begin with recognizing that workers and students share in the primary purpose of colleges/universities: the creation, preservation and distribution of knowledge. These are societal goods and should be funded from the public purse accordingly.Might as well ban me from this thread, then, Caissa.
A little self-restraint is all that's necessary.
Fri, 2010-01-22 14:59
#78
To return to the article at hand, take note of the season in which it was written: Post-Xmas mayhem, the season of hell for retail workers.
Those retail workers are overwhelmed during this time, both by the number of customers and transactions they must deal with, and the hours they are forced to work.
If they are lucky, they might actually get paid for some overtime hours; but more likely, they are simply forced to do them in order to maintain their jobs, as such things as cleaning and inventories are deemed to be tasks necessary to successful completion of their daily duties, but of course, given the throngs of shoppers, these tasks cannot be undertaken during normal hours.
Those hours now extend from 8 or 9AM to 10 or even 12PM, 7 days a week, from the middle of November into the first week of January (for the consumer orgy known as Boxing Week). So on top of their overtime, paid or unpaid, their schedule now has them working every weekend, and up at 6AM for openings, home at 12 or 1 or 2AM after closing (and completing the reconciliation and restocking and other necessities).
Who's being inconvenienced here, again?
I worked in a hobby store in Toronto while I was in University. The xmas season was not too bad except for the long hours. The worst worst worst day was Boxing Day (or the first day open after the holidays basically). Crushing crowds in a store staffed by me and the manager and all wanting specials or to return stuff. It was pure hell. One year a friend dropping by to meet me after work came early and got drafted into helping, mostly because people kept asking him for help so he did and then the manager said he was hired for the rest of the day and paid him.
Sat, 2010-01-23 04:21
#79
Maybe bringing it back might begin with recognizing that workers and students share in the primary purpose of colleges/universities: the creation, preservation and distribution of knowledge. These are societal goods and should be funded from the public purse accordingly.Might as well ban me from this thread, then, Caissa.
A little self-restraint is all that's necessary.
Of all the things that I need to see funded, PSE falls very far down my list. Health care. Public schools. Support for the elderly. These are the sorts of things that I am passionate about. You say you're racking up $150K in debt so you can wear a white coat? Bite me.
Sat, 2010-01-23 12:56
#80
Of all the things that I need to see funded, PSE falls very far down my list. Health care. ... You say you're racking up $150K in debt so you can wear a white coat? Bite me.
Anyone else notice the irony?
Sat, 2010-01-23 13:06
#81
I'm not being obstinate. Thank you for being clear. So are you suggesting that seeking office is always self-interested and that office seekers never do so out of a sense of service or altruism?All I can say is in my 5 years of student politics I saw many leaders fighting on behalf of their constituents. Even when I disagreed ideologically with many of these leaders, I had to concede that from their world-view, one I found and find abhorent, what they were advocating made sense.
I had some minor involvement in student politics at McGill and I wrote for one of the campus newspapers.
My observation is that the higher people are in the ladder, the more likely they are to be corrupted and just in it for the resume building, or even worse, an ideological crusade. A band of misguided radicals took over the union in my last year there and they alienated around half the campus with their obstinancy. At the low levels, such as departmental representative and that sort of thing, you have a lot of people who just want to make the ship run a little smoother.
A big problem is that some of these organizations have become so big that being a student politician is a full-time job, and thus the people in charge are no longer students. They're part-time students if even that, sometimes taking only one course per year. They forget who their first priority is as they become infected with "big fish in a small pond" syndrome. It's too bad, because when I speak to these people privately when I bump into them years later, they're nice, level-headed people, even if a little arrogant.
Sat, 2010-01-23 13:49
#82
just a comment on the initial post here : it never ceases to amaze me how union bashing is considered acceptable practice...i suppose it is in direct relation to the willingness of many to believe the propaganda they read in corporate owned media....
A few weeks ago, on Friday, Nov. 27, Canada's Supreme Court ruled that Wal-Mart was well within its rights to close that store in Jonquière, Quebec where the employees had voted in a union.
Sat, 2010-01-23 15:23
#83
Of all the things that I need to see funded, PSE falls very far down my list. Health care. ... You say you're racking up $150K in debt so you can wear a white coat? Bite me.Anyone else notice the irony?
White coat doesn't equal health care, in case that's what you're referring to. Otherwise, I'm stumped.
Sat, 2010-01-23 22:21
#84
Of all the things that I need to see funded, PSE falls very far down my list. Health care. ... You say you're racking up $150K in debt so you can wear a white coat? Bite me.Anyone else notice the irony?
White coat doesn't equal health care, in case that's what you're referring to. Otherwise, I'm stumped.
Oh, does it refer to the scientific work that builds most modern medical equipment that allows people the modern life expectancy, you know, of 80 rather than 40?
Sat, 2010-02-06 01:21
#85
Actually it's sewage workers not scientists who move the life expectancy up.
Note what happened in Walkerton.
Sat, 2010-02-06 11:55
#86
Actually it's sewage workers not scientists who move the life expectancy up.
Sun, 2010-02-07 08:48
#87
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Your lack of comprehension is causing me to 'facepalm', 500_Apples.
jrootham was just giving us another example of this phenomenon...
Sun, 2010-02-07 10:40
#88
Of all the things that I need to see funded, PSE falls very far down my list. Health care. ... You say you're racking up $150K in debt so you can wear a white coat? Bite me.Anyone else notice the irony?
White coat doesn't equal health care, in case that's what you're referring to. Otherwise, I'm stumped.
Oh, does it refer to the scientific work that builds most modern medical equipment that allows people the modern life expectancy, you know, of 80 rather than 40?
Get fucking serious, 500. Life expectancy is DOWN this generation. Either don't be moronic or use your real name.
Sun, 2010-02-07 10:41
#89
And I'm 43 and a chronic suicide risk.
My sister died at 43 of myocardial infarct (obesity-related).
My cousin made it a bit farther but neither of them reached 50 and I don't expect to (although it would be nice).
Sun, 2010-02-07 10:42
#90
Actually it's sewage workers not scientists who move the life expectancy up.
Amen.
Sun, 2010-02-07 11:02
#91
there are many scientists who do raise the life expectancy up, like climate change scientists, not the deniers.
Sun, 2010-02-07 11:16
#92
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
...and there are many who spend their days on producing 'red dye #6392', and reverse engineering minor variations to get around the patents on an artificial sweetener. Too many have an inflated opinion of the value of the tinkering they do for corporate cash...
Sun, 2010-02-07 11:23
#93
there are many scientists who do raise the life expectancy up, like climate change scientists, not the deniers.
And dentists.
Sun, 2010-02-07 11:33
#94
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
...though I doubt many dentists consider themselves scientists.
Reminds me of my scientist friend who said, upon the release of Viagra, that a whole new class of drugs was the future. They would primarily feed vanity markets, and thus become a regular necessity for many in this twisted society - and of course, hugely profitable.
He had three categories for them: hairogens, thinogens, and bonergens.
Sun, 2010-02-07 13:01
#95
Get fucking serious, 500. Life expectancy is DOWN this generation. Either don't be moronic or use your real name.
LoL, someone going by the user name "muffin" is telling me to use my real name.
If O nly I were 500 doughnuts the irony would be complete !
Sun, 2010-02-07 13:13
#96
...and there are many who spend their days on producing 'red dye #6392', and reverse engineering minor variations to get around the patents on an artificial sweetener. Too many have an inflated opinion of the value of the tinkering they do for corporate cash...
There's a cartoon for every demographic and every profession.I'm sure there are cartoons for what you do.
I'm not a big fan of pharmaceutical eithers by the way... but don't paintbrush everyone who works in medical research that way. Governments have chosen to use the pharmaceutical companies as intermediaries, middlemen, who take a subsidy for every research dollar they spend and then do the "work" of marketing, etc. Coincidentally enough, life expectancy stopped rising as rapidly a few decades back when we switched to this "medical" research model. There are still plenty of people working within academia, where good, useful medical work is still possible.
Sun, 2010-02-07 13:53
#97
Get fucking serious, 500. Life expectancy is DOWN this generation. Either don't be moronic or use your real name.
According to whom? Not Statistics Canada.
"The life expectancy of Canadians continues to rise, and has now reached 80.4 years, according to new numbers released Monday by Statistics Canada.
The federal agency's numbers are based on data from 2005, with a baby born that year expected to live to 80.4. In 1991, babies were only expected to live to 77.8. In 2004, life expectancy was 80.2."
Sun, 2010-02-07 16:45
#98
RevolutionPlease
Do you trust those numbers?
Sun, 2010-02-07 17:23
#99
Do you trust those numbers?
It has nothing to do with whether or not I trust those numbers. G. Muffin made a claim that life expectancy for this generation is declining (and told someone to get fucking serious, and not be moronic for claiming that life expectancy has increased) yet did not provide anything to back up that claim. I have made no claim that the life expectancy is currently increasing, but instead provided numbers that do not agree with the claim GM made. If numbers are brought forward showing evidence that life expectancy is declining than people can look at what has been provided and evaluate it for themselves.
Sun, 2010-02-07 17:42
#100
To be honest with you, my belief springs from a combination of anecdotal evidence and something I read. Fast Food Nation? Food, Inc.? I thought with our obesity rates skyrocketing, we were scheduled.
500, I apologize for my intemperate outburst. I enjoy your posts and you really didn't deserve that.
Francesca (calmer, wiser)
Sun, 2010-02-07 18:44
#101
Ok Ok.