Miller for Mayor?

skdadl wrote:

And Michelle and p-sto, I am shocked, shocked, I tells ya. I srsly doubt that either of you would give in to such a revenge fantasy. Why did she do it? Because a lot of young North Americans still think they're living in Disneyland and it's great to be famous. But then they get famous by doing something like this, and suddenly they realize that it's actually no fun at all. I've read that Lucas is not bearing up well. I feel for her, but what she did was utterly appalling. Someone should warn young persons about fama.

You're reading too deeply into my comment.  I was merely pointing out that if polyamory is employed properly then Giambrone has responsibility to both McQuarrie and Lucas.  I never implied that what Lucas did was right.  I did state that her actions imply that she was wronged by Giambrone for what ever that is worth.

Edited

Just wasn't as funny as it was in my head

Okay, I can go with that.  Ultimately she wasn't wronged because they both got what they wanted in the end.  He used her for sex, she used him for publicity.  He caused her great emotional pain when she cared about him and was humiliated by him (explained here), and then she caused him great emotional pain by exposing and humiliating him.

The one thing I object to is her decision to get her revenge on Giambrone in such a public way through the media. Imagine if she was jilted by some guy who wasn't a public figure and the media had no interest at all in all the text messages that had been sent etc...what would she have done instead? Slapped him across the face end of story. 

I dunno, I think that this is a case where she felt jilted in what was an entirely private matter and she should have retaliated in private - or not retaliated at all. This is a free country - no one HAS to form a relationship with anyone else and people have a right to "jilt" other people if they want to. It just seems that the amount of damage she was able to inflict on Giambrone was so totally out of proprtion to what he may have done to her. She's 20, she gets jilted, big deal - it probably won't be last time in her life that she falls for someone and they decoide they aren't interested. But she had to know that by going to the media she wasn't just "getting back at him for dumping her" - she was getting back times 100 by totally destroying his life.

I think that he probably deserved a private slap across the face not to a public hanging.

Yes, I pretty much agree, Stockholm.

Funny. You and I didn't use to agree much. Are we both getting mellow in our old age?

I'm disliking how this thread is turning into a condemnation of Lucas.  What she did was foolish at worst, I disagree with the moralising that's going on in calling her behaviour wrong.

Well, I don't think this should have been a news story at all. It wouldn't have been, eg, in much of Europe. And there's where the social toxicity comes in.

People keep trying to figure out what one person did to another in private, but I would say give that up. These are totally fictional, moralizing narratives whichever way they go. We cannot know; we absolutely cannot know what was true of any of these relationships, and we have no right to know. Spinning moral tales off of isolated quotes is delusionary, y'know?

But that's why going public is a problem of a different order, a social problem. That plays on the general cultural delusion, and just keeps it spinning on and on.

I'm saying that I don't know whether he was cheating. I don't know nuffin'.

Olly wrote:

Skadl, are you saying that Giambrone cheating on his partner is challenging our traditional patriarchal social structures?

What do we know? Maybe they have an open relationship and they are each free to sleep with whoever they want - ergo there is no such a thing as "cheating"? who knows?

There are lots of people who many of admire who we now know were total jerks to people in their own families etc...there are other people who we all hate who may be wonderful to their spouses and children. Am I supposed to be feel more favourably disposed towards Stephen Harper if he's been "faithful" to his wife and is nice to his kids? I wonder how long before someone calls for George "Party and Play" Smitherman to drop out of the race for mayor because he is obviously immoral and untrustworthy since he has confessed to having been a drug addict in the past? Where does this all end?

Fine so the media is being unfair to Giambrone.  It happens to most politicians one time or another.  Some of them handle it.  Giambrone lied, then he waffled and ran away.  I don't see him being worth defending if he won't even defend himself.

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Why would anyone do that?  Why would such a thought cross anyone's mind, except, apparently, yours?  She wasn't either of those things and no one said she was.

Fair enough. She's not doing it for the money, she's doing it for the fame that leads to the money. Either way, I do find it funny that it's now her character that's being scrutinized, as though she was the liar with someone on the side.

To answer your question, I guess I don't know why anyone would, but I don't know why anyone would dissect her character in the first place, and yet here we are.

I'd like to respond to this:

Quote:

She's 20, she gets jilted, big deal - it probably won't be last time in her life that she falls for someone and they decoide they aren't interested. But she had to know that by going to the media she wasn't just "getting back at him for dumping her" - she was getting back times 100 by totally destroying his life.

She hasn't "totally destroyed his life".  His life will go on.  People will forget about this, and he'll either go on to be a respected archeologist, which was his path before, or he'll rebound and either get his council seat this fall, or get elected to something else in a few years when he can say, "That was then, this is now." In the meantime, he's still a city councillor for the rest of his term, he is still the chair of the TTC (which he can work really hard at turning around in order to get public confidence in his abilities back).  In fact, his future life is probably going to be filled with a lot more money and fame than hers will be, considering the tiny percentage of would-be actresses who get anywhere, and considering the huge income gap between women and men, and considering that he is a privileged guy with a fallback career and lots of people pulling for him.  He'll be just fine. 

And she didn't just "get jilted".  He lied to her for a year, made a complete fool out of her in front of her family and friends by declaring in the largest newspaper in Canada that he has been with his "life-partner" for the entire time she had told them he was with her, and, according to her, he and his entourage allegedly spread nasty gossip about her in an attempt to cover his tracks.  That goes way beyond your average "jilting" or "break-up".  If you want to use hyperbole about people's lives being ruined, then I think that his actions would have felt just as much to her like "ruining her life" by discrediting her with everyone she knew and even people she didn't know.

The truth is, neither of their lives are ruined.  They may have ruined each others' lives for the time being, but this will blow over and no one will die and they will both be fine.

Michelle wrote:

She hasn't "totally destroyed his life".  His life will go on. 

I agree. Even if it has, it's just for now and it's far from undeserved.

Unionist wrote:

None of what Giambrone or Lucas or whoever did is of any public interest whatsoever.

The exact details, no - but I think it's still fair to take into consideration when you decide who to vote for. Someone who's a scumbag privately might not treat the public with the respect it deserves either.

Doug wrote:

Someone who's a scumbag privately might not treat the public with the respect it deserves either.

I know of no evidence of a link between private and public virtue.

Anyway, let's carry on. What about MacQaurrie? Did she have any outside love interests? I want the whole story before I decide how to vote.

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How does dissecting characters NOT come into it?

I suppose there's a certain thoroughness in looking into both sides of a conflict, but it doesn't really seem like, notwithstanding not shutting up and going away, she did anything wrong here. If he had, say, defrauded her out of a bunch of investment money nobody would suggest that it would have been more civil of her to keep quiet and deal with it privately, and nobody would look for some kind of ulterior motive in coming forward to say "this guy, this guy that wants to be Mayor, defrauded me". I guess I don't see this as all that different.

Why is the victim's character also under scrutiny? That's what I guess I'm not getting.

Defrauding is against the law.  Having a messy breakup with your girlfriend(s) isn't.  The only thing this story is about is who was right and who was wrong, not about whether someone did something against the law.

I don't think she did anything wrong either.  As I said earlier, she was well within her rights to go public with this and humiliate him.  But when you force your messy breakup onto the front pages of a newspaper in order to dissect someone else's character, then you kind of invite speculation about the role you're playing in the story as well, right?

I agree that the newsworthyness of this is questionable at best.   But, we know about it now, and you can't unknow it. Even knowing that the media conspired to cover up Harris' affair or affairs or whatever, and are quick to expose someone who doesn't look like he just might punch you in the nose for doing it, you still can't unknow it, try as you might.

I have to admit, that being in possession of this information now, I wouldn't vote for Giambrone if I had the opportunity.    I do believe that lying to your partner is a a hell of a rubicon to cross.   

But, Skdal's points are well made.   If Giambrone was involved in a certain kind of relationship where having sexual relationships outside of it was okay, then I'd be okay with it too-- if I was somehow made aware of what is none of my beeswax.   And, there's always mitigating factors within relationships, and I'm not as all judgemental as all that.   Not everyone who, for lack of a better term, "cheats"  on a spouse is an immature narcissistic twit. 

I think this is the first column of Wente's that I've ever completely agreed with and enjoyed. :D

How ironic.   It's clear from "Wente's" columns deffending Micheal Bryant that she's cheating on her readership, telling them that she's a journalist, while in fact she's just mouthpiece (I had other words, but let's leave it with those) for Navigator.

I'll put Wente's points about morality and cheating right where I put Micheal Jackson's points on child care.

LOL

Good statement by David Miller:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/miller-says-he-wont... says he won't ask Giambrone to resign[/url]

Quote:

“The test I have for whether someone should be in a leadership role is whether they're succeeding. … The TTC's story is one of tremendous success under his leadership.” [...]

“Pierre Trudeau once said that government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation,” Mr. Miller said. “I think, frankly, there are areas where the media have no business as well. Adam Giambrone has stood before the people of Toronto, he has accepted responsibility on their actions and he's working with his partner on their private life. And that's his private life. … He's acknowledged he's done something wrong, and he's paid the consequences in front of all the people of Toronto, and probably of Canada.”

I heard on the news this morning that Mammoliti is pressuring Giambrone to resign over the allegations that he told Lucas about the fare hike before it was made public, and that if he doesn't, he'll be going to the integrity commissioner over it.

Back when the story broke, I thought, "big deal" over him telling her about the fare hike since lots of people confide in their partners about work.  But what hadn't occurred to me at the time was that it could potentially have given her unfair inside information that would have made it possible for her and whoever else she told (she says just her mother) to hoard tokens.

So perhaps there's something to that.  I'm not sure if it's enough for him to resign over - I mean, it's not like he resided over a billion dollar boondoggle like some other mayoral candidates I could name - but I can see where some sort of discipline might be in order if her allegations turn out to be true.  (With his luck, he was probably stupid enough to tell her about it in a text message! :D )

Remind me why it was Giambrone who dropped out of the race?"

Because its the scandal du jour? 

Is there a law against having sex in your office after hours? Bill Clinton used the Oval office and he's still a folk hero to many. It's funny to see all these prigs suddenly auditioning to see who gets to be Toronto's version of Ken Starr!

Its pretty obvious that the people who are going on and on about this and want to fee AG to a pool of piranhas - are people who love every minute of it because they find it so titillating!

As for the fare increase - it's common knowledge in Toronto for the past year that fares were almost certain to increase and if someone did know in advance - I SUPPOSE they could conceivable buy a few tokens and save a few cents - but this hardly compares to giving insider tips on government decisions to people buying and selling stocks. What if someone else on the TTC commission told their spouse that a fare increase was in the works - should that person be thrown to the crocodiles as well?

I think Giambrone did the right thing by dropping out of the race (and as you all know i was never all that enthusiastic about his candidacy in the first place) - but now this is degenerating into something like a witch hunt to be followed by show trials. I think that having to end his campaign and facing such public humiliation is more than enough of a penalty for him. But apparently it isn't enough for the braying hyenas who won't be happy until they've driven the guy to suicide. Lay off already!

Hey, politics is a bloodsport.  The right-wingers on council would be fools NOT to demand his resignation as the TTC chair when they have misconduct they can pin on him.  You can be sure that the lefties on council would do the same thing if it were a right-winger in charge of the TTC who had been caught giving inside information to a mistress.

I agree, though, it's pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.  I say let Mammoliti go to the integrity commissioner.  Maybe he'll get a reprimand or something.  Big deal.  If he stares Mammoliti down, he might be forced by the commissioner to resign, or he might not.  If he resigns on his own, he definitely won't have a chance to stay on.  Might as well take his chances.