Nearly half of Israel's high school students do not believe that Israeli-Arabs are entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel, according to the results of a new survey released yesterday. The same poll revealed that more than half the students would deny Arabs the right to be elected to the Knesset.
Joe Biden admitting to be a racial supremacist is not really news ...
Still, if you need to vomit, here he is pandering to racists on YouTube
sometimes politicians tell the truth...
I'm a Zionist. I believe in a two-state solution.
I too am a Zionist and believe in a two-state solution
That out of the way, the survey of Jewish High school students is quite unnerving ... doesn't bode well for the future. Aren't the youth supposed to be progressive?
I am Hendrik Verwoerd and I believe in a two-stan solution.
Canada has achieved what Israel can only dream of...
Israel Puts US on Notice
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LC13Ak03.html
"the peace process is likely not a central consideration for the Israelis or the Americans...and according to most analysts his primary purpose is to coordinate action on Iran..There are numerous indications that Israel is losing patience with Obama's policy of restraint."
I'm a Zionist. I believe in a two-state solution.
Good. A fair distribution of Palestine would be for the Arabs to be allowed to go home, and the Jews can live in a walled-off enclave around Tel Aviv.
Gee, that was easy.
Yeah, Al-Q, it's quite astounding when people sitting here deliberate on which of their human and national rights the Palestinians ought to be "allowed" to keep or retrieve. We're all free, right? So how about a 300-state solution? What the heck, anything goes. Just don't remove the tanks and walls and checkpoints until the Palestinians "freely" agree to our favourite "solution".
All Zionists believe in a two state solution. From the Jordan River to the Miditerranian for Israel, and a state of hell, a la Gaza, for Palestinians.
Biden is a suck up, a sloganist, a flake, and an imperialist who thinks he's a liberal.
He is a proper vice president to Barack Obama.
Good. A fair distribution of Palestine would be for the Arabs to be allowed to go home, and the Jews can live in a walled-off enclave around Tel Aviv.
Gee, that was easy.
Much truth is spoken in jest (sarcasm).
And the real "hidden" agenda. Expulsion. What a Surprise. 
No surprise at all. The Zionists have expelled (ethnically cleansed) Palestinians from 80% of their homeland and will leave them with a squalid cage to call a state until expelled becomes expunged.
Good. A fair distribution of Palestine would be for the Arabs to be allowed to go home, and the Jews can live in a walled-off enclave around Tel Aviv.
Gee, that was easy.
Much truth is spoken in jest (sarcasm).
And the real "hidden" agenda. Expulsion. What a Surprise.
Oooo yes, a very scary "hidden agenda", I'm sure you are trembling in fear.
It's a "jest" because of the ludicrous absurdity of the reversal.
As if your regional nuclear superpower would decide to relocate itself behind a wall similar to its own land grabbing annexation wall.
Totally absurd and without any precedent.
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/arabjew.html
" In 1945 there were more than 870,000 Jews living in the various Arab states. Many of their communities dated back 2,500 years. Throughout 1947 and 1948 these Jews were persecuted. Their property and belongings were confiscated. There were anti-Jewish riots in Aden, Egypt, Lybia, Syria, and Iraq. In Iraq, Zionism was made a capital crime. Aproximately 600,000 Jews sought refuge in the State of Israel.1 They arrived destitute, but they were absorbed into the society and became an integral part of the state. In effect, then, a vertible exchange of populations took place between Arab and Jewish refugees. Thus the Jewish refugees became full Israeli citizens while the Arab refugees remained "refugees" according to the wishes of the Arab leaders."
http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14386&It...
"
Hoenlein was likely referring to a 1947 Arab League document uncovered late last year by JJAC researchers that outlined a policy of expulsion and robbery of longtime Jewish citizens of Arab states.
The Arab League’s proposed law was approved by Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq and implemented by other nations. It provided that Jews would be considered “members of the Jewish minority of the state of Palestine” and have their bank accounts frozen and used to finance “resistance to Zionist ambitions in Palestine… Jews believe to be active Zionists would be interned as political prisoners and their assets confiscated.”
JJAC “found a paper trail that showed the displacement of up to one million Jews in Arab countries did not occur by happenstance,” Urman said when the findings were released. “It was state organized, state collusion led by the Arab League as a weapon in their struggle against the State of Israel.”
http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17155&It...
And the real "hidden" agenda. Expulsion. What a Surprise.
To whose hidden agenda are you referring?
contrarianna understood the meaning of what I wrote: that if the obscenity of what the Palestinians are forced to endure were suddenly forced upon the Jews of Palestine, it would be considered an international outrage. You were naturally outraged.
Here's my agenda: that Jews and Arabs live together as equals in a secular democratic state that recognises the crime done to Palestinians, who would thus either be compensated for their stolen property or given the right to return home.
Be afraid.
Fear and hate is all they traffic in. Fear and hate.
Looks like some people ought to check out the latest in my Middle East Tutorial : the Miss Manners' Edition!
It may make you laugh!
Check it out:
http://middleeasttutorial.blogspot.com
Or me out, at:
http://www.facebook.com/pax101#!/pax101?v=wall
Getting back to the thread title. There seem to be (at least) half a dozen different definitions of what it means to be a Zionist. So I guess if Biden says he's a Zionist it could mean from:
a. He is converting to Judaism, resigning as VP and planning to move to Israel to pick oranges on a kibbutz for the rest of his life
to
b. He opposes Israel being eliminated and all Jewish Israelis being massacred, but would support a two state solution with a Palestinian state having a capital in east Jerusalem
to
c. He believes in the Likud policies of eventually taking over all of the occupied territories and getting the Palestinians to move away
Before reacting - maybe someone should ask Biden which of the dozen or so definitions of Zionist he was thinking of when he said he was a Zionist.
And the real "hidden" agenda. Expulsion. What a Surprise.
To whose hidden agenda are you referring?
contrarianna understood the meaning of what I wrote: that if the obscenity of what the Palestinians are forced to endure were suddenly forced upon the Jews of Palestine, it would be considered an international outrage. You were naturally outraged.
Here's my agenda: that Jews and Arabs live together as equals in a secular democratic state that recognises the crime done to Palestinians, who would thus either be compensated for their stolen property or given the right to return home.
Be afraid.
I think we are in agreement about about living in peace. But with all due respect no one has the right to demand a "secularization" of ANY state. Apart form the reason Israel was created IT has a right to be nonsecular if IT chooses. Just as US & Canada are Christian states, Iran and Pakistan are Muslim states, Vatican Catholic sate, and on and on.
I also agree that Palestinians should be compensated for the loss of their homes/land just as Jews expelled from Arab lands should.
Fair is Fair.
I hope there will be peace one day and I think the USA is right to call Israel on the carpet for the hypocrisy of continuing to build settlements.
Maybe something good can come from this (i.e. destabilization of the current Israeli government).
Pax has done flogging his website btw.
Who, other than Zionists, talks about massacring Jewish Israelis?
Hamas Charter:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
He opposes Israel being eliminated and all Jewish Israelis being massacred...
Who, other than Zionists, talks about massacring Jewish Israelis?
Like I said, who, besides Zionist propagandists talks about Arabs massacring Jewish Israelis? I've posted here many times (with links, quotes, etc.) how Hamas members today pay no attention to the Hamas Charter, which was drawn up in haste and is now a forgotten document.
The charter carries about as much with Hamas as those corny "turn the other cheek" and "the meek shall inherit the earth" sayings do with Christians.
Like I said, who, besides Zionist propagandists talks about Arabs massacring Jewish Israelis? I've posted here many times (with links, quotes, etc.) how Hamas members today pay no attention to the Hamas Charter, which was drawn up in haste and is now a forgotten document.
The charter carries about as much with Hamas as those corny "turn the other cheek" and "the meek shall inherit the earth" sayings do with Christians.
Thanks I feel so much better now
Of course it's "Zionist" propaganda to take Hamas constitution literally.
Have you considered a career in stand-up or better yet in politics?
I think we are in agreement about about living in peace. But with all due respect no one has the right to demand a "secularization" of ANY state. Apart form the reason Israel was created IT has a right to be nonsecular if IT chooses. Just as US & Canada are Christian states, Iran and Pakistan are Muslim states, Vatican Catholic sate, and on and on.
I hope there will be peace one day and I think the USA is right to call Israel on the carpet for the hypocrisy of continuing to build settlements.
Canada a "Christian" country? Is that is why things like Sunday Shopping Laws have been declared illegal? Last time I looked being Xian was not a basis for preferential treatment as a landed immigrant. We have a secular state unlike Israel. I too think that all states should be secular because I don't believe the idea of two classes of citizens based on religion is democratic. I do agree with you that Israel is more like the Vatican and Iran than a secular state.
I am also heartened to know you understand Israel's role as junior partner to the US. After all if the country that arms you to the teeth can't suggest that your wrong then who could?
If "no one takes the Hamas consitution seriously" then why doesn't Hamas do itself a favour and scrap their constitution or else eliminate those parts that are a clear incitement to hate. Otherwise people will take them at their word.
If "no one takes the Hamas consitution seriously" then why doesn't Hamas do itself a favour and scrap their constitution or else eliminate those parts that are a clear incitement to hate. Otherwise people will take them at their word.
I think Al Q means they are just joking.
Canada a "Christian" country? Is that is why things like Sunday Shopping Laws have been declared illegal? Last time I looked being Xian was not a basis for preferential treatment as a landed immigrant. We have a secular state unlike Israel. I too think that all states should be secular because I don't believe the idea of two classes of citizens based on religion is democratic. I do agree with you that Israel is more like the Vatican and Iran than a secular state.
I am also heartened to know you understand Israel's role as junior partner to the US. After all if the country that arms you to the teeth can't suggest that your wrong then who could?
Why did we need Sunday shopping laws in the 1st place? Why are all the legal holidays Christian?
Look at the history of Sunday shopping. It's a ALL about religious holidays imposed by the state. IN Quebec the official public school boards are...Christian...only. If you really believe we are truly secular you are dreaming., AND besides it's none of your business if Israel is secular or not. Go protest against Pakistan, Iran and even Tibet (as it once was, was NOT a secular state).
Yes and as soon as we codified our rights in the Charter those things disappeared because they are discriminatory. Canada's population has been primarily Xian but that still didn't save discriminatory laws based on religion. The state should be totally unbiased in its treatment of citizens which is why it must be secular no matter what its historic roots. State action is not culture that is the point. No one has ever said Israel's culture should be "secular" only its state.
I responded to you because you called Canada a non-secular state. Tell me the ground rules okay. To engage you about your nonsensical political statement about my country I have to condemn who first? Is there any order of condemnation I should use? Do I have to make the condemnation with every post?
Just stop being hypocritical in singling out Israel as a state to be condemned because it is not secular.
Of course it's "Zionist" propaganda to take Hamas constitution literally.
It isn't a constitution.
It's more like a forgotten mission statement that was drawn up one weekend to make the Hamas office schlubs happy.
Just stop being hypocritical in singling out Israel as a state to be condemned because it is not secular.
Come on; who else defends ethnic cleansing, theft and murder because God is their realtor?
Just stop being hypocritical in singling out Israel as a state to be condemned because it is not secular.
If you can find a quote from me where I singled out Israel then I will apologize. I stated numerous times I think all states should be secular.
You not I compared Israel to various governments and said they were all similar. I did not comment on the US because I comment on them all the time and I would have been rightly scolded for thread drift.
I did comment on your comparison to Canada. Canada is my country and I have this funny idea that if you say Canada is a religious not a secular state I can disagree. Your absurd statement has little defence in political studies terms so instead of answering my substantive objection to your characterization of the political system I live under you claim I am attacking Israel. IMO a truly pathetic debating technique.
I deferred to your superior knowledge of Israel and agreed with your comparison of it with Iran and the Vatican. Was I wrong to agree with you on that?
Come on; who else defends ethnic cleansing, theft and murder because God is their realtor?
[/quote]
Hmmm let's see....Hamas, Iran, Sudan, ........ and Iraq under Sadam just to name a few.
Hmmm let's see....Hamas, Iran, Sudan, ........ and Iraq under Sadam just to name a few.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
I note he has given up his slanderous claim against me that I would single out Israel for not being secular. Typical.
[drifting along with the thread drift]
You're whining about being called names?
[/drifting along with the thread drift]
So meanwhile - why doesn't Hamas officially scrap their constitution which blatantly calls for the mass murder of all Jews?? I realize that maybe they are "just kidding", but surely they should be smart enough to realize that as long as those phrases appear in thier constitution - it gives Israel a wonderful propaganda tool to use over and over and over again "you see, those nutbars at Hamas want to kill us all it saus right there in their constitution in black and white - and you expect us to talk to them???". People said Hitler was "just kidding" when he wrote Mein Kampf as well. If Hamas is really "just kidding" they have a golden opportunity to prove it by officially scrapping the incitements yto mass murder in their constitution.
Just stop being hypocritical in singling out Israel as a state to be condemned because it is not secular.
Here's another way in which apologists for Israeli apartheid policies are similar to apologists for apartheid South Africa.
During the South African apartheid era, right-wingers frequently pointed to repressive policies by other African states, along with the economic problems of other independent African states as a means to distract attention from South Africa's racist policies. It wasn't uncommon to hear things like "What about Idi Amin of Uganda?" or "Africans are trying to get into South Africa to find work...so it can't be so bad". "Why single out South Africa?"
One of the things about being a slightly older lefty is that you see the same old tactics used over and over again.
One of the things about being a slightly older lefty is that you see the same old tactics used over and over again.
And by essentially the same people. Racist supremacists never change, they get better PR.
So meanwhile - why doesn't Hamas officially scrap their constitution...
For the second time this thread: the "Hamas Charter" isn't their constitution. They could officially scrap it, to make Western liberal like you happy, but they don't seem terribly concerned about pandering to Western public opinion. I think they have this feeling that the West has been the cause of most of their troubles over the last 100 years, which disinclines them to seek Western favour.
In any case, as I have said repeatedly, Hamas has in effect scrapped the charter anyway, since it isn't taken seriously within the organisation.
Professor Naomi Chazan, the Israeli head of the NIF, which has donors in the United States, is being publicly vilified by ultranationalist groups such as Im Tirzu. Foreign donors to the NIF, as well as other human rights groups, are being pressured by Israeli officials to halt contributions. Billboards have sprouted up around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem with a grotesque caricature of Chazan, who has been branded by groups such as Im Tirzu as an agent for Hamas and Iran, with a horn growing from her forehead. “Naomi-Goldstone-Chazan” the caption on the billboard reads. Im Tirzu, the front organization behind many of the attacks, includes among its financial backers the John Hagee Ministries and the New York Central Fund, which also support extremist settler organizations.
With a democracy like this, who needs tyrannies?
By the way, Jaku, while the CJC has never found reason nor time to condemn the murderous policies of Israel, they did find time to condemn those who protested those policies, including the Gaza war crimes, and including Jews involved with IJV. I think we know what the CJC is really all about.
With a democracy like this, who needs tyrannies?
By the way, Jaku, while the CJC has never found reason nor time to condemn the murderous policies of Israel, they did find time to condemn those who protested those policies, including the Gaza war crimes, and including Jews involved with IJV. I think we know what the CJC is really all about.
Right so there is some kind conspiracy...... if "their" media does not agree with your distorted and dishonest view of politics or history?
One of the things about being a slightly older lefty is that you see the same old tactics used over and over again.
And by essentially the same people. Racist supremacists never change, they get better PR.
A bigot is stil a bigot. Whether so-called "leftie" or not.
Who is "thier" media peech? Is your support of a racist ideology finally getting to you? You seem off the rails.
So meanwhile - why doesn't Hamas officially scrap their constitution...
For the second time this thread: the "Hamas Charter" isn't their constitution. They could officially scrap it, to make Western liberal like you happy, but they don't seem terribly concerned about pandering to Western public opinion. I think they have this feeling that the West has been the cause of most of their troubles over the last 100 years, which disinclines them to seek Western favour.
In any case, as I have said repeatedly, Hamas has in effect scrapped the charter anyway, since it isn't taken seriously within the organisation.
That should give all those Jews who have been threated with death by Hamas feel more secure. Because after all no-one takes the Hamas charter seriously. Do you realize how profoundly intellectually dishonest that sounds?
I guess after a while you just believe your BS.
Right so there is some kind conspiracy...
Why is it that when the Zionists on babble get stuck for an argument they so often accuse someone of suspecting a conspiracy?
"I think we know what the CJC is really all about."
So what exactly are the CJC "all about"?
That should give all those Jews who have been threated with death by Hamas feel more secure
So Israeli only occupies, cages, brutalizes, ethnically cleanses, and murders, and is in the process of actually, in fact, eradictaing the Palestinian people--an actual cultural genocide--because of Hamas? That's it? And you believe that childish nonsense? That is what you use to justify your own pathology and the promotion of Zionist hate and murder? That's the best you can do? I appreciate the justification for racial supremacy is always flimsy, I just had no idea.
