Federal Israeli Apartheid Week motion defeated

proof enough that the federal NDP is not that of provincial NDP, I would say.

Thanks to Libby Davies and others that share her conviction, this is a huge victory for democracy by any standard.

This is good news that not all politicians are afraid to stand up to the Israeli lobby. What does condeming the event actually do?
Nothing really. This whole thing seems like a tactic for the Conservatives to add to their pamphlets the names of those that didn't support the motion to condemn IAW and imply that they are anti-semitic.

The CIC says "a similar motion introduced by the Bloc Quebecois also denouncing the use of the term apartheid to describe Israel." failed. Does anyone know the difference between the Bloc's and Uppals' motions? Did the Bloc support Uppal's motion?

Mr. Tim Uppal (Edmonton-Sherwood Park, CPC):
 
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, there have been consultations with all parties, and I hope you would find consent for the following motion: "That this House condemns Israeli Apartheid Week for seeking to delegitimize the State of Israel by equating it with the racist South African apartheid regime, and that this House continues to support a peaceful resolution through a negotiated two-state solution that respects Israel's right to exist".
 
The Speaker:

Does the hon. member for Edmonton-Sherwood Park have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
 
Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Beauharnois-Salaberry, BQ):

 
Mr. Speaker, I also wish to seek the unanimous consent of the House to adopt the following motion:
 
That this House denounce the use of the word apartheid to describe the Israeli policy on Palestinians and the word anti-Semitic to describe any criticism against Israel, and that this House reaffirm its support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within sound, established borders, and reaffirm its support for the right of the Palestinian people to have its own state within sound borders and to live there in peace and security.
 
The Speaker: 
 
Does the hon. member for Beauharnois-Salaberry have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
The Speaker: There is no consent.

The Canada Israel Committee is busy busy busy trying to disinform and divide and conquer!  I wonder if they congratulated the Bloc for putting forward a motion in the House to "denounce" the use of the term of anti-semitism in relation to criticism of Israel? (The other part of the motion they are "congratulating" the bloc on in the above link.)

Meanwhile, the CIC's friends at B'nai Brith were busy earlier this week bullying the Bloc Quebecois for calling out the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism for what it is: a pro-Israeli lobby. Here is the media release they issued:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

B’nai Brith Canada disappointed by Bloc decision to pull out of
parliamentary coalition against antisemitism

TORONTO, March 11, 2010 – B’nai Brith Canada has expressed concern at
reports that the Bloc Quebecois (BQ) has walked out of a national coalition
designed to cooperatively examine and address the issue of antisemitism in
Canada. 

“The move by the BQ to pull out of the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to
Combat Antisemitism (CPCCA) has politicized a non-partisan issue of concern
to all Canadians, said Frank Dimant, B’nai Brith Canada’s Executive Vice
President.  “The decision by the BQ to turn its back on the process of an
all-party initiative against antisemitism, before the Coalition has even
begun to reach conclusions or offer recommendations, is counterproductive
to say the least.

“Canadians were optimistic when they witnessed the overwhelming response to
the CPCCA’s important initiative to combat antisemitism in Canada - police
chiefs, academics, victims of antisemitism and the human rights
organizations that assist them - all came together to work cooperatively on
examining antisemitism in all its many manifestations and finding
solutions.  We would ask the Bloc to reconsider this decision.”

-30-

For more information, please contact, Dan Rabkin, Communications Officer:
416-633-6224 X 140 / cell: 416-312-9173

Am I ever glad we have democratic voices like Libby's in Parliament.

Yeah, too bad we don't have them in Ontario.

Theyre always praising up the NDP in these threads. It's sickening.

aka Mycroft wrote:

The Canada-Israel Committee responds.

I salute the courage of Libby Davies who is unfortunately now a target for CIC  and the rest of the lobby (and though it's not at all clear which MPs voice-voted for or against the two very different motions, the CIC has apparently decided to target the entire NDP in a pressure move for allowing Davies vocal dissent).

Meanwhile:

Quote:

Progressive Jews Welcome Defeat of Motion Condemning Israeli Apartheid Week

OTTAWA, March 12 /CNW Telbec/ - Independent Jewish Voices (IJV), a national network of Jewish human-rights activists, welcomes yesterday’s defeat of MP Tim Uppal’s House of Commons motion condemning Israeli Apartheid Week.

“This shows courage to stand up to the Orwellian attempts by Israel’s supporters to bully Israel’s critics into silence,” said IJV spokesperson Sid Shniad. “Apartheid”, the term Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak and former prime minister Olmert used to describe the occupation’s effects, shouldn’t be controversial.

“Whether or not you agree with the term ‘apartheid’, all Canadians should defend free speech and oppose limiting debate, especially considering these terms are part of the Israel mainstream debate,” said Shniad.

IJV also commends Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath for her statement calling a similar provincial motion by MPP Peter Shurman “divisive by nature” and calls for the Ontario legislature to reject such motions in the future.”

Founded in 2008, IJV-Canada is a large national organization of Jewish activists committed to social justice and universal human rights.

http://ijvcanada.org/ijv-vji-statements-enonces/communique-de-presse/ijv...

Skinny Dipper, I think I (vaguely) understand your argument, but the answer to the TDSB's attempt to ban criticism of Israel isn't, "well, you should ban support for Israel also!" There are many who would like to ban all political education, discussion, and organization in schools - not to protect the "well-being of the students", but to shelter young minds from all thought except that of the ruling classes which pervades the education system, the mainstream media, and what passes for popular culture in some quarters.

Hi Unionist,

I think I also vaguely understand your point as well.  There's nothing wrong with being pro-Israeli as these organizations are.  I will state that some high school student may complain to the teacher or principal that these same organizations are anti-Arab and anti-Muslim.  The Jewish and pro-Israeli organizations don't need to state that they hate Arabs or Muslims--just their presence in the schools could affect the learning envionment for some students.  Their pro-Israeli stance could also mean that they hate Arabs and Muslims.  Their message could be implied instead of being explicit against the Arabs.  While the pro-right-wing Israel supporting groups may claim that IAW displays explicit hatred against Jews and Israel, I haven't see any such information in the IAW's website.  I haven't seen anything implicit either.  Then again, my views are subjective just as my views about the Jewish or pro-Israeli groups could also be deemed subjective.

If one were a principal or teacher at a school, would you consider banning T-shirts with JDL, CJC, CIC, or B'nai Brith logos?  These groups could be preaching hatred.   What if you don't?  Arab and Muslim Canadian students may complain by either bringing in their own T-shirts or by disripting the learning environment because they will claim that the pro-Israeli students are first disrupting the learning environment.

Outside the school enviroment the IAW supporters can now state that the pro-Israeli groups are hate groups.  One may agree or disagree.  The point is that they can state this now.  I do believe that in the United States, the JDL is considered a terrorist organization along with KACH.  In Canada, only KACH is considered a terrorist organization.

I'm starting to ramble on.  I don't dispute the decision of the TDSB.  The problem for pro-Israeli groups is that people will start calling their groups pro-hate groups whether or not one agrees.

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Now back to the CIC commentary in response to Libby's position,

This little comment stood out:

Quote:

The attempt to compare Israel, a democracy that provides full rights to its Arab minority population

Really, they dare fabricate and yet feel justified that they are speaking truths and can thus condemn Libby and the NDP, after such a load of BS?

It seems we are supposed to overlook roads that Palestinians are not allowed on, the encroachment of settlers, the wall, the blockade of Gaza, failure to allow equal movement through other bordering country's borders, in order to accept their words?

What the hell is "its minority population"? They are speaking as if Palestinians are not their own population, in their own territory.

Which indeed interestingly lead them to make a huge mistake, as they followed the falsification of the actions above with:

Quote:

part of a larger concerted campaign to delegitimize the State of Israel.

Where they actually apparently unknowingly acknowlege, they are colonial occupiers of another people's land. And indeed have indicated that Israel can honestly be delegitimized as a country. They seriously undercut themselves with that addition. Good for them.

The FBI did not describe the JDL as terrorists it listed them as terrorists see this thread

aka mycroft wrote:

I guess the JDL will also be suing the FBI for calling it a "violent extremist Jewish organization", listing it in its Terrorism 2000/2001 report and referring to its activities as "terrorist". The JDL is also listed in the Department of Homeland Security funded MIPT Terrorism Database which refers to "the group’s terrorist campaign".

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Hi Jaku,

As I stated to Unionist, it doesn't matter if the Jewish organiztions are hate groups or not.  The opponents of these groups will find a way to state that they are hate groups.  For example, if one supports the taking of land from Arabs to build Jewish settlements on the West Bank, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports Israeli checkpoints thoughout the West Bank in order to inhibit the movement of Palestinians, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports the wall, then one hates Arabs.

If a girl asks some boys to join in a game of soccer and the boys say "No," the boys could state that they don't hate girls.  They are just being pro-boys for the soccer game.

Skinny Dipper, I first want to note how appreciative I am of your civil tone.

I understand your point though I would add that a single issue matter that might be interpreted as highly offensive or targeting a specific faith group is far different in my view than labeling an entire organization. CJC for example while strong supporters of Israel are also well known for their human rights and inter-faith/ethnic dialogue work. One, I believe must show great care in not wrongly tarring a group because you disagree with a position it takes, as long as that position is not seen as advcating hatred or contempt.

aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

remind wrote:

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

As I recall, public opinion polls indicate that a rather large percentage of American Jews have views on Israel that are far more consistent with those of a group such as IJV than with pro-Zionist groups. If we extrapolate that to Canada I suspect that the CJC represents far fewer Canadian Jews than they, and you, claim. Now that the CJC doesn't even have members (what kind of Congress has no membership?) there's no way to quantify their claims to represent the Jewish community though I suspect B'nai Brith Canada would have some objections to your claims. 

BTW, Hasn't the turnout at the Israel Walk in Toronto dropped by half over the past five years or so?

I simply do not believe this. While many American Jews are more progressive on Israel related matters they would still be pro-Israel and never support BDS campaigns as do IJV. In Canada the numbers, Im willing to bet are much more different tending to be more conservative. Would like to see your studies you mention that would prove your point.

aka Mycroft continues to engage in trying to divert and confuse. Jacu asked to see proof of his allegations which he then tries to maniputae by demanding that Jacu show proof of his insinuation that there are only a dozen supporters of IJV. And here's the difference; Jacu made no claims of studies and the like. Indeed he wrote (as I read it) in a more sarcastic vein, but that is just me.

I agree that Jews in Canada are not always in sinc with CIC but there is no doubt in my mind that unlike IJV the overwhelming number of both Canadian and American Jews pass the "J-test".

“ According to the paper, “By implicitly shifting the debate from Israeli policy to Israel’s right to exist, BDSers have provided what we could call ‘the J-Street Test.’” The “test,” Troy explains, is a way of drawing the line between honest criticism of Israel and its policies on the one hand, and demonization that seeks Israel’s destruction on the other. J Street, much castigated by many the Jewish community for its ongoing, strident criticism of the Israeli government, “passes the test” as an honest critic of Israel because it condemned the BDS movement, he said. The paper quotes Tal Shechter of J Street U, who wrote, “We should be investing – not divesting – in our campus debate, in our communities and in the people who will bring about change in the region. That’s why J Street U is launching an ‘Invest, Don’t Divest’ campaign today to raise money for two organizations – LendforPeace.org, a Palestinian microfinance organization set up by students like us, and The Center for Jewish-Arab Economic Development, which promotes Jewish-Arab Economic Cooperation in Israel.” “I disagree with J Street, and I’ve written publicly about my disagreements,” says Troy, “But they didn’t get dragged, like some other well-meaning activists, into a prejudiced, obsessive campaign over Israel’s very existence.”

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170710

IJV does not come close to passing the "J-Test"

If I were an Israeli, I would press for the immediate elimination of all laws and practices that provide any favoured status to Jews (starting with the obscene "Law of Return", then the JNF land ownership polices, checkpoints, walls, etc.); for the immediate withdrawal from all occupied territories to pre-1967 borders; for the immediate dismantling of all the illegal settlements therein (that is - [b]all[/b] of them); for the immediate dismantling of Israel's nuclear arsenal; for the immediate recognition of the Right of Return of Palestinians to their homes and/or compensation for losses incurred. Whether all this would lead to one state, two states, a federation, or some other solution, would be up to all the people of the region to decide jointly - once their national rights were recognized and restored.

Do I pass the "J-test", Prophit?

Because I'll tell you something. By putting the plight of the Palestinian people in second (or shall we say last) place in all your posts, you have dismally failed the H-test. Let me know if you don't get it.

aka Mycroft wrote:

Hannah Arendt and Albert Einstien fail the "J-Test" too not to mention Yehudi Menuhin.

Do you mean this Albert Einstein who supported the Zionist cause:

 http://www.zionism-israel.com/Albert_Einstein/Albert_Einstein_zionism.htm

Ya probably true.