Ongoing battle around IAW, and using, or not using, the A word to describe Israel's actions in ON

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Actually that is a complete fabrication of her comments.  The only person claiming that the threats were made on Facebook is the headline writer.  She is quoted as saying emails and phone calls to her home and about commenting about them on Facebook - not that threats were made on Facebook.  Much different than the spin you are trying to get away with.

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Sorry, I was editing as you were posting, Life.  I'm not trying to get away with anything.

In that discussion thread on FB on Saturday night, she suggested that the people who were posting in it were the same people calling her house and threatening her family.  Then she begs those people, in that discussion thread, to stop sending her threatening e-mails and calling her house.

Just read it.  You'll see it.  Then the article writer picked that up as if it was fact that the people on Facebook were the ones calling her house and threatening her - because that's what she accused them of doing that night.  This is what she wrote to the people who were discussing this on her Facebook wall:

"White boys...love it! was it one of you that called me and threatened me?"

"And again, someone is calling my home. Leave me, my husband and my children alone.  As Tarek Fatah said, 'Good luck with the fascists!'"

"Enough! Just no more threats. ... All I ask is that you leave my family alone.  I'm happy to meet you face to face just no more email threats and nonsense."

"My reason in starting this up was to ask you to leave us alone. I haven't slept in a week and the calls keep coming even though I'm out of the country. Please...enough."

So I'm sorry, but I'll stand by what I said.  She was clearly accusing the people who were engaging her on Facebook of making threatening calls to her family and sending her threatening emails.

You're wrong remind. You clearly are not reading what is right in that link. She went off like crazy over and over again about "stopping the threats" and not one of those people were threatening her. Not one. Read it and please, tell me who is threatening her. Since when is dissenting a threat? FFS. This is a big issue for activists. She went off the deep end. Sometimes people do. She should apologize and turn in whatever e-mails and PM's she may have gotten to the police. They can deal with it.

This is fucking ridicules. Cheri self-destructed. Period. This whole my party right nor wrong is bullshit. We want accountability from the Liberals and the Cons right? well we sure as hell should expect the same from those we vote for.

She screwed up huge. First with the support for Shurman and now this.

Really remind, you should have an understanding of how FB works, how the news feed works, and how others interact. Her entire exchange appeared on anyone's wall who was on her friend's list, and likely the friends of the friends she has. That is how FB works.

If I post something on my wall, it shows up on all my friend's newsfeeds, where they can respond to it, like it, or simply read it. That is how it works.

That's the thing Tommy. There are a lot of good people working in the NDP. Charlie Angus comes to mind first. Cheri I have no doubt did great things. I wish that she had just had a little more control over how she handled this. Before speaking on the Shurman motion she could have at least considered how this a) might affect the NDP and b) how it will appear to their voters. Either way, she should be taking some responsibility for this. Not the threats, clearly that is wrong and should be condemned.

It's not like Israel doesn't have strong supporters and backers in the Liberals and the Conservatives. There was absolutely no reason things should have gotten this far. Cheri screwed up - big time. In her haste to support the motion she threw a lot of people under the bus, and still continues to do so. Fascist idiots is what we are to her. Nice.

remind wrote:

The people who are phoning/emailing her and threatening her, because they disagree,  are indeed idiots, and they could  easily be fascist in inclination, if not that they are certainly intolerant of other's rights.

Even when someone in the NDP is so clearly wrong they are always right with you, remind. You will condemn people of color, women of color, activists, people who have suffered oppression, anyone and everyone, who is critical of an NDPer who fucked up. You will happily throw them all under the bus and smear them with ridiculous accusations to boot.

Okay, enough. Either shit or get off your pot. Who made "threats"? Is there a police investigation? If not, then it is bullshit right along with this married woman's sudden relevation that she's gay. Get over yourself. It is this sort of blind obedience in the face of bald stupidity that keeps me from ever seeing the benefit of belonging to a party.

Personally I have no problem calling Canada an apartheid state given the way this country has treated the First Nations peoples.   In fact Canadian apartheid was to a large extent the inspiration for South African apartheid.

remind wrote:

The people who are phoning/emailing her and threatening her, because they disagree,  are indeed idiots, and they could  easily be fascist in inclination, if not that they are certainly intolerant of other's rights.

 

That some people, who were not participating in the FB fiasco, or were not harassing her in her  private life, are taking her lashing out comments personally, is hilarious.

 

As there is no reason to believe that she meant those who were/are in disagreement with on; her personal position on the use of the word aparthied  in conjunction with Israel and that she thinks she has a right to legislate how people word use against  violent colonialist xenophobic governments oppressing peoples.

 

People who are righteously angry, or upset, with her over her IAW position, IMV need to focus and disapprove on that, and in fact have a public protest against it, and  to stop with the bullying and harassing everywhere online, it is hyprocritical, ego driven and divisive. And I stand by the fact it would never be done to a male politican.

 

That she has been blammed for being a victim,  and that people have stated here, on a supposedly progressive forum, that they do not believe her when she says she was threatened, is indicative of  not only hypocrisy,  but  also a lack of actual empathy and acceptance. A couple of the more pertinent requisites for denoting oneself progressive are significantly missing I would say, on the part of those that have done this.

 

For example, Michelle incorrectly used my antipathy towards EMay as an example that was close to all these threads on CDN, in an attempt to excuse them.  I will here indicate that not once was EMay ever having to go public with being stalked and threatened at her home phone number for her stance on things.

...no matter my antipathy towards her, no one here would ever believe that I would have stated that I did not believe her, and then attacked her for saying so, if she would have had to go public on such a thing.

 

The way the carrying ons about CDN are going it is getting into the decidedly icky factor, and personally I do not think babble should be tolerating it further and Lou Arab was correct to call a halt to it. Too bad some people did not listen and continue with just slightly modified attacks.

There was absolutely no call for us babblers to "halt" the discussions around the fool DiNovo. Your interpretation is just that remind, your interpretation. Just because you stand by your arty right or wrong does not mean we will, and I can say we absolutely will not be backing off. I feel no pity for her. She had a chance, she blew it. She spit on gays and lesbians, she pretended to be the voice of Muslim women on this issue, and now the voice of Queers, because she all the sudden is gay.

We have absolutely NO PROOF beside her word that she received any death threats. No announcement of a police investigation. No e-mails she, in all honesty and to back up her position, could have released. Instead, we see her attacking her leftist base by calling them fascists. I have no idea what you definition is remind, but it appears that the label only applies to those people you  say, with certainty, are threatening her.

Cheri sided with a fascist motion, she then would not engage her constituents and supporters in honest debate, instead she deleted comments and removed people. You might want to reconsider who the hell is a fascist and who isn't. Her best new buddy is that ultra right slime ball Takek Fatah. Yeah, all the sudden her bestest buddy, who also happens to be a Muslim hating pro-American policy fool.

And lastly remind, we will not shut up, or stop talking about this just because you feel we are hurting poor poor wee Cheri. Fuck that. Cheri went public with her full defence of restricting the rights of students and backing a facist motion. Fuck CDN. I shed no tears for her stupidity and she has only herself to blame.

If and when she ever decides to release the so-called threats, even that is a diffrerent matter.

If you cannot see how her actions and support of the Shurman motion were fascist (the label you gave to those who apparently threatened her) then there is no point in discussing this with you.

A lack of "real empathy" was shown by that dumbass Cheri when she decided that limiting the speech of students in favour of Israel right or wrong and then tossing everyone under the bus who questioned her. She showed no "empathy" for the Palestinian women she had the gall to claim to speak for. Screw her.

I've mentioned this a few times - but in her speech, DiNovo said that the Passover Seder begins with a prayer for the Egyptians, who were the enslavers of the Israelites. I pointed out that that is not only false, it is a loopy crazy invention - because the Haggadah (the booklet which is read and sang every Seder night) is filled with triumphalist rhetoric about God destroying our enemies, etc.

My point - how can a rational person stand up in public and make up nonsense like this? Did she just badly misinterpret something someone had told her?

It's a thought that occurred to me more than once when reading her Facebook foolishness - from Tarek Fatah to "I'm queer" to "leave my family alone" etc.

Anyway, that's for her friends to sort out. All I can say, as a Canadian, a Quebecker, and a Jew, that with friends like DiNovo, we Jews don't need enemies. I'll maintain that view until she comes to her senses (or overcomes her rather cosmic Ego) and backs off on what she said.

Hahahaha @ Caissa....

I wonder if it's possible that she was invited to some sort of "alternative seder" where they might have replaced some of the language.  I've heard of progressives doing alternative ceremonies for various religious things.

I don't think I'd go as far as Stargazer.  I don't think DiNovo's a fool or a dumbass.  Calling her names just feeds the pity party being thrown by the mainstream media with DiNovo as the guest of honour.  I think she's someone who got caught up in a politically bad action, and then tried to cover her ass with white liberal colonialist feminism when she was called on it, and now she feels like she can't back down or else she'll face a second onslaught from the other side, and deep down, she knows that the wingnuts on the right are way worse.  (In fact, I'm willing to bet that the death threat was from some right-wing white supremacist neo-nazi type, not one of her left-wing supporters on Facebook. As Mycroft says - progressives in the public eye who stand up for Palestinians get no end of hate mail and threats.  Here's a good example of what the wingnuts on the other side are like: Jewish shit list - not safe for work.)

And it probably also feels good to get all those positive strokes from her new fairweather Conservative and mainstream media buddies.  You don't get that when you stand up for the oppressed, so she's probably not used to it, since she's always stood up for the oppressed before this.

And that's something else to remember, too, something I keep reminding myself through this.  She IS normally on the side of the oppressed.  This recent dumb move doesn't take away from the fact that she has done some amazing social justice work on behalf of impoverished Ontarians, like spearheading the minimum wage fight and advocating to end the Child Tax Benefit clawback.  That doesn't make her right on this issue, and that doesn't make what she did okay, but it does mean that I don't write her off, nor do I consider her a fool or a fascist or any other hyperbolic label.

i have not posted to the last 95 threads on this :-)

i do not know if CDN has recieved threats or not. But no women who states that she has been subject to death threats, threatening phonecalls or harrasment should need to be in fear.

i do not care if the women is someone i like, someone i dislike, someone i would vote for or someone i would vote against.

in 2010 very simply no women should live in fear. and if CDN or any other women states that she is in fear that is good enough for me.

Where did I put those déjà vu pills...

Michelle wrote:

I wonder if it's possible that she was invited to some sort of "alternative seder" where they might have replaced some of the language.  I've heard of progressives doing alternative ceremonies for various religious things.

I don't think I'd go as far as Stargazer.  I don't think DiNovo's a fool or a dumbass.  Calling her names just feeds the pity party being thrown by the mainstream media with DiNovo as the guest of honour.  I think she's someone who got caught up in a politically bad action, and then tried to cover her ass with white liberal colonialist feminism when she was called on it, and now she feels like she can't back down or else she'll face a second onslaught from the other side, and deep down, she knows that the wingnuts on the right are way worse.  (In fact, I'm willing to bet that the death threat was from some right-wing white supremacist neo-nazi type, not one of her left-wing supporters on Facebook. As Mycroft says - progressives in the public eye who stand up for Palestinians get no end of hate mail and threats.  Here's a good example of what the wingnuts on the other side are like: Jewish shit list - not safe for work.)

And it probably also feels good to get all those positive strokes from her new fairweather Conservative and mainstream media buddies.  You don't get that when you stand up for the oppressed, so she's probably not used to it, since she's always stood up for the oppressed before this.

And that's something else to remember, too, something I keep reminding myself through this.  She IS normally on the side of the oppressed.  This recent dumb move doesn't take away from the fact that she has done some amazing social justice work on behalf of impoverished Ontarians, like spearheading the minimum wage fight and advocating to end the Child Tax Benefit clawback.  That doesn't make her right on this issue, and that doesn't make what she did okay, but it does mean that I don't write her off, nor do I consider her a fool or a fascist or any other hyperbolic label.

You're right Michelle but cripes does she piss me off.

I used the term fascist in response to remind's use of the term. It was to highlight the silliness of using it against those who dissented and told Cheri so.

I'm just having a hard time trying to get over how she managed to split the left, piss on her leftist friends, and become best buds with right wing fools. I know she has done good work, but it appears that she is causing her own destruction and continues to do so.

It would help if Cheri had gone to the police. Has she? Has she contacted anyone besides Andrea with the threats? She should. Not only will it give her some credibility it will ease the minds of people like me, who are at this point, not so sure of her.

And wth??? A self-hating Jew list? Absolutely disgusting.

Quote:

Here's a good example of what the wingnuts on the other side are like

Who woulda thought there's be so many names on that SHIT list. Even rabble gets a mention. 

When synthome referred to the disproportionate response around here as rabid, deranged, essentialist, and fundamentalist, the sad reality is that he underestimated the severity of derangement and should have called the response hysterical and insane.

Babble policy:"You will not post material that is inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, obscene, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law."

Stargazer manages in one post to hit virtually all the notes. Any reprisals? any reprimands? Of course not, she's walking lockstep with the fundamentalist position here. I won't respond or repeat her bile because that would give it a basic credibility that it doesn't deserve. 

I now understand why babble has a policy: to justify banning those who have the gall to disagree around here. Clearly enforcement of the policy is entirely uneven and arbitrary. Calling yourselves "progressives" is a defilement of everything I understand "progressive" to mean. 

Unionist, I know you don't like being spanked around the way you have been by Dr. Dawg, spurs, etc, but your overweening attitude assures me that clearly you were coddled as a child. That I assume is the basis of your sense of entitlement to be head apparatchik, Grand Inquisitor, and Absolute authority.  I am no Jew and have never assisted at a Seder supper, but in two seconds I was able to find a Passover Seder Haggadah, that begins essentially not only as DiNovo described in Hansard, but also are simply beautiful words:

So let's now close our eyes. Can you see the universe and your place in it? Affirm now your role as partner with God in the healing and transformation of all that is. The Seder can also be a time to do "tikkun" (to heal and transform parts of ourselves and our society). To read the Seder please continue reading this piece.

 

"KIDDUSH We are gathered here tonight to affirm our continuity with the generations of Jews who kept alive the vision of freedom in the Passover story. For thousands of years, Jews (and our non-Jewish allies) have affirmed this vision by participating in the Passover Seder. We not only remember the Exodus but actually relive it, bringing its transformative power into our own lives. The Hebrew word for Egypt, mitzrayim, means "narrow straits." Traditionally, mitzrayim has been understood to mean a spiritual state, the "narrow place" of confusion, fragmentation, and spiritual disconnection. Liberation requires us to embrace that which we have been taught to scorn within ourselves and others, including the split-off parts from our own consciousness that we find intolerable and that we project onto some "evil Other." The Seder can also be a time to reflect on those parts of ourselves. Israel, according to the Torah, left Egypt with "a mixed multitude." The Jewish people began as a multicultural mélange of people attracted to a vision of social transformation. What makes us Jews is not some biological fact, but our willingness to proclaim the message of those ancient slaves: (Say Together) The world can be changed, we can be healed."

But don't let this get in the way of your public scorn for a public official who dared disagree with you. You have special privileges around here. I get it! But, DiNovo silenced no one. She called into question, she disagreed, with the use of the term Apartheid in IAW. Next time she should consult her tiny rabid "base" (i.e. lunatic fringe) before speaking, especially knowing full well how disagreement with orthodoxy is met around here. If you silence disagreement how will you know when the "real" repression and censorship comes? IAW not only went ahead as scheduled, there was never any threat it wouldn't go ahead. And in fact, IAW not only ended up receiving way more publicity than it would have otherwise, it actually forced some people to think and at least rationalize their use of the term. Now whether IAW gains loses credibility from the deranged responses around here, will remain to be seen.

Everytime we ban someone like our new friend, we seem intolerant.

@Michelle: "she knows that the wingnuts on the right are way worse."

That's at least a start, since you acknowledge there are similar wingnuts on the left. You're [edit: not to unfairly single out Michelle, I meant You in the plural sense] almost there. Quick! Find a mirror.

@Stargazer: "I'm just having a hard time trying to get over how she managed to split the left"

Yes, that's it, the Left needs help splitting itself up with derangement.  And did you actually say "cripes"?

@ Stargazer: Did you just say "dude"? Thanks for updating you're status to "really pissed". I needed the heads up. You're hipmeter is off the charts. I'm an equal opportunity hater of all drivel, especially hateful drivel, and you're keeping me too busy to go anywhere else.

Dude, I'm a Socialist!  

Now don't feed the troll (the one contravening babble policy). Caissa, you're right. babble is not intolerant, it has tremendous latitude for its lackeys (yes, like Stargazer), just no so much forgiveness in terms of difference of opinion.

Something funny happened to spurs on the Progressive Bloggers feed last night. You know anything about that, urh?

skdadl wrote:

Something funny happened to spurs on the Progressive Bloggers feed last night. You know anything about that, urh?

Are you self-promoting? Honestly, I don't know what you're referring to.

Not to worry. I'll stop now, you can ban me, but I really am appalled at the double standards applied here. You have every right to feel betrayed, even dismayed. But DiNovo does not deserve this kind of treatment. You have been ungracious in your interpretations, cynical in your attacks, and hateful in your scorn. And you have done it with the blessing of the moderators and in contravention of your own policies. That is shameful!

Comfort was given to the enemies of reason, justice and humanity with the selfish and thoughtless decision to side against those struggling to bring these matters into the light of day, in the face of all attempts by the mainstream media and old line elected sycophants to obscure the dreadful reality of the colonies, those wanton acts of depravity inflicted daily upon an occupied population, that have been supported as policy by our government representatives from one gutless regime to the next. The enemies are now among us to lecture about proportionality with an air of unamused elitism, complete with the backhanded wave, which convinces no one but themselves that the dishonest and apologist claptrap being peddled has a shred of validity from a progressive view.

remind, what you are getting here is justified outrage. Cheri seems to have the MSM and the powerful Tarek Fatah on her side.

She is NOT A VICTIM.