Zionists Lobby

Not that's there's ever any good reason.

Sorry. Wrong computer. My better half will kill me.

Peech wrote:

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Hamas has killed far fewer innocent people than the Zionist state with the cheerleading and political cover of the racial supremacist, and criminal AIPAC. That doesn't mean that Hamas is innocent of anything, just that what Canada declares "terrorist" and "ally" is ideologically governed and has not a thing to do with justice, human rights, or truth. Our government, one might recall, would have declared Jewish resistance to Nazi Germany "terrorism" right up to the day war was declared by Britain.

Oh my, the "proportionality" argument used to justify murder? I don't know whether to vomit or laugh at your hypocrisy. Hamas is an organization that by it's charter advocates the murder of all Jews and de facto carries it out on a lessor scale albeit simply because of of its ineptitude.Your analogy to Jewish resistance groups of the Nazis is intellectually dishonest at best. You are disgusting and have gone too far even by your low standards.

I have family members who were victims of an Arab "resistance" group when one of it's members decided to "resist" life by strapping explosives to his body and blow himself up killing teenagers who were guilty of the crime of eating lunch.

The only way towards peace is to condemn ALL acts of violence and not defend murder as some sort of politically correct fucking bull shit. Israel is rightfully criticized and condemned for it's oppression and mistreatment of the Palestinians in the territories and by continuing to build settlements.

But murder is murder.

There is a justification for murder? You mean for the Zionists, which includes you? After all, you are the one who continuously raises the justification of Hamas, a poorly armed, rag-tag group, to justify disproportionate Zionist murder, right? Isn't that your reason for raising the specter of Hamas? To justify Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity including the ghettoization and starvation of Gazans?

One would think your mouth must be full of your own vomit all of the time.

Ah, so it is because you say you lost a family member that Israel is justified in bloody, brutal crimes. Again, for you, the justification of murder. The blood can justifiably blind you to the suffering of those you blame but not the Palestinians who have lost at least as much and most often much more.

The way to peace is to condemn all violence? Really? Than why have you never on this board condemned Israel's on-going, and brutal violence against Palestinians? You have always been and remain an apologist for racist Israeli violence and policy.

You constantly raise the Hamas charter as constantly as you ignore, despite your protestations that all violence ought to be condemned, that Zionism is committed to the erasure of Palestinians and even denies their existence. No matter what else can be said of Hamas, they at least acknowledge the existence of the Israeli people. Zionists won't even afford Palestinians that little bit.

So now you say murder is murder. So when do you condemn the Gaza massacre and those responsible for it? Today? Tomorrow? Or have you changed your mind as you wave once again the Hamas charter?

Hypocrite, indeed.

E.Tamaran wrote:

VanGoghs Ear wrote:

Israel should end the occupation. 

Would that mean that all Israeilis/Jews would have to leave the west bank, Golan Heights, and east Jerusalem? Or could they stay provided the territories were fully returned to Palestinian control? And if the Palestinians decided that the Jews had to leave, or stay but under less than equal conditions, would it be acceptable for outsiders to intervene?

(VanGoghEar, I don't expect you personally to answer, but I'm just throughing the questions out there for my own education on this matter...)

 

Does the hypothetical matter? If I have a gun to your head with my finger on the trigger, should I keep it there with every second getting closer to tragedy out of the hypothetical fear that if I relaxed my grip and lowered the gun you might beat the crap out of me? Maybe you'll just be so pleased to have the gun gone all that you'll care about is getting on with your life.

Speaking of ghastly Zionist arithmetic, it looks as if "ZOG" is in charge of the RSS feed to babble's home page, since the title of a news item about a firefight in which both Israelis and Palestinians were killed is "Israeli troops killed in Gaza clash".

Papal Bull wrote:

I have just always found it fascinating how the supporters of the Israeli regime get so huffy about the term Apartheid and decry it as an unfair comparison. But I always thought that the two countries' military relationship during SA's Aparthheid era would've caused some cultural bleed over in the military and policy ranks of the country. You know, learning and such. I mean they had very deep ties, militarily, throughout the 70s. And Israel stood strong by their ally in Africa. I mean, a lot of research points towards the two collaborating on nuclear weapons.

 

I find it very hard to believe that a lot of the racialist ideology and strategies/tactics of Apartheid-enforcement were not absorbed and utilized by Israeli militarists, academics and politicians that became affiliated and exerpienced in South Africa - a fellow state shunned by much of the rest of the world for its brutal colonial regime.

Exactly.  The phony outrage which huffs that Israel couldn't possibly be associated with the racism of apartheid South Africa
--when the two states were the strongest of allies with a joint nuclear weapons program.

And the deadly sharing of intelligence between the two states comes out in the Anti-Defamation League spy case in the US(one of many spy cases involving pro-Israel lobbies).

Quote:

February 25, 2002
The ADL Spying Case Is Over,
But The Struggle Continues

By Jeffrey Blankfort, Anne Poirier
and Steve Zeltzer
Plaintiffs in the of ADL Spying Case

In 1993, the District of Attorney of San Francisco released 700 pages of documents implicating the Anti-Defamation League, an organization that claims to be a defender of civil rights, in a vast spying operation directed against American citizens who were opposed to Israel's policies in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza and to the apartheid policies of the government of South Africa and passing on information to both governments.
....
Almost a decade later the suit has been settled with a significant cash payment by the ADL and, we wish to emphasize, without our signing any agreement for confidentiality which the ADL had previously demanded. Our efforts to expose the organization's work in defending the policies of the Israeli government and stifling its opponents will continue, using new information gained in the pursuance of the suit.

....
Moreover, Bullock, who had worked, off the books, for the ADL for more than 25 years, admitted that he had been reporting on the activities of black South African exiles and American anti- apartheid activists for South African intelligence.
....
Bullock, the ADL's top "fact finder" had sold confidential information to a South African intelligence agent in San Francisco for $15,000.

Ten days before he was assassinated in South Africa, Chris Hani, the man who would have succeeded Nelson Mandela as the country's president, was trailed by Bullock on a trip through California who reported on it to the South African government.

ADL agent Roy Bullock was discovered to have a floor plan of murdered Los Angeles Arab American leader Alex Odeh and a key to his office....

Quote:

Zionism developed in a time of reinvigorated white supremacy in the latter part of the nineteenth century when European states were busily dividing up the land of Africa and Asia. In the confrontation with the indigenous people of Palestine, its ideology belongs within the history of European racial theories and, like the Afrikaner ideology of Jan Smuts, has little problem with seeing itself in the forefront of democracy and civilization in the Middle East while at the same time implementing and justifying the complete and utter subjugation of one of its most prominent people.

Israel and White Supremacy

There's a lot more in this article that's worth reading.  It's full of connections.

Israeli Apartheid Week really opened my eyes to what's going on over there. Israel is planning for the total genocide of the Palestinian people and anyone else who gets in their way.

Nuclear weapons? Check! Water diversions? Check! Population control walls? Check! Denying medical supplies? Check! Massive military armed with biological, chemical and white phosphorus weapons? Check! US Senate and President bought and paid for? Check! Sympathetic American media/Hollywood? Check!

And when they're called on it, they trot out the old "Holocaust! Never Again!" bullshit. As if that allows them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

They are planning their own version of Hitler's Final Solution ( which is really ironic).

It is also a cultural genocide. Zionist policies are systematically erasing the history and the memory of Palestine and Palestinian people. This includes historical artifacts. They have always denied the existence of the Palestinian adopting the mantra, "a land without people for a people without a land", which is philosophically and politically the equivalent of "terra nullius" as applied to the Americas by Europen invaders and colonialists and the Roman Empire before that. Gaza, daily, becomes genocide in fact.

It may be that Israel is modelling its treatment of the Palestinians on North American treatment of FN's.  Reducing them to "reservations"(bantustans), leaving them voteless(FN people in Canada didn't get the vote until the late 1950's, and I don't think they got it in the states much earlier than that), and giving them the choice of living as cheap labor or dying out. 

Perhaps somebody will start opening casinos in the West Bank.

Just ask the Cherokee.

Cueball wrote:

Cherokee did better than most.

Holy shit Cueball you're clueless! The reason the Cherokee "did better than most" was because they owned slaves i.e. free labor! Goddammit learn some fucking FN history before you go spouting off about things you don't know.

And yeah, that was a bad period of FN history, an aberation never to be repeated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_freedmen_controversy

Cueball wrote:

Usually when people call me clueless they disagree with me. They also aligned themselves strategically with the US government, in various ways, on and off over 200 years.

To say this isn't to add any moral spin to the issue. It's just the facts.

Spare us. It's clear you were supportive of the Cherokee "doing better than most" without understanding the historical context of why. If you knew about the slavery issue I doubt you'd have used the CN as an example of overcoming adversity.

In a settler context, it would be like approvingly stating "China sure can sell a low priced DVD player!" without understanding the slave wages the factory workers make.

Spare me your psychic insights into what I know and don't know, and why I post what I post. The political fractures among the Cherokee Nation during the American Civil War caused by the slavery issue is no big secret.

Prophit wrote:

E.Tamaran wrote:

Israeli Apartheid Week really opened my eyes to what's going on over there. Israel is planning for the total genocide of the Palestinian people and anyone else who gets in their way.

Nuclear weapons? Check! Water diversions? Check! Population control walls? Check! Denying medical supplies? Check! Massive military armed with biological, chemical and white phosphorus weapons? Check! US Senate and President bought and paid for? Check! Sympathetic American media/Hollywood? Check!

And when they're called on it, they trot out the old "Holocaust! Never Again!" bullshit. As if that allows them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

They are planning their own version of Hitler's Final Solution ( which is really ironic).

I have read some pretty ugly stuff here about Israelis but this comes pretty close to hate speech. I appreciate Michelle's response though disagree with her characterization of what is going on in the West Bank. That said the Occupation is taking its toll undobtedly and we all must work towards a judiscious and dignified withdrawal

I agree with Michelle's admonition also, but he does have a point. There is an excellent issue of National Geographic on the newstands on water. Anyone who wishes to appreciate what all the wars and the occupation are about and the cost of the racist Zionist policy, ought to pick up a copy. Be prepared to be angered if only by the pictures.

Quote:

Canadian Zionists have a history of equating telling the truth about Zionism with hate speech

N.Beltov wrote:

Quote:

Canadian Zionists have a history of equating telling the truth about Zionism with hate speech

   ... and have made efforts towards getting Canadian governments to codify their views into law.

Are making efforts!!

"Victims must never exaggerate their plight - otherwise, they deserve to remain victims forever."

[i]- The Israel Apologist's Handbook[/i]

I believe that when an Israeli deputy defence minister threatens to bring a 'shoah' upon the population of Gaza, and when they continue to treat the entire population as inmates, denying or begrudging people of all ages who are trapped inside the Gaza concentration camp the bare essentials of life, one begins to understand how easily people can become confused when speaking of 'solutions.'

BTW, I didn't "admonish" anyone.  I just posted why I felt the prediction/comparison was inaccurate.  That doesn't make me your ally in any way on this issue, Prophit.

Michelle wrote:

BTW, I didn't "admonish" anyone.  I just posted why I felt the prediction/comparison was inaccurate.  That doesn't make me your ally in any way on this issue, Prophit.

Actually it read to me like an admonishment