Beyond Cheri DiNovo

You have something else to offer?

In the last thread, you wrote:

Quote:

And, obviously, you believe the CCF policies should have been maintained. Social ownership of the means of production would have been saleable....but wait, no, you did not speak to that. Is that because it is obvious that political parties - particularly ones that have no media on board - have to deviate from your purity of purpose, your other-worldly position? Obama, Rae, CDN, all grist for your moral mill!

In fact I do thinl the CCF policies should have maintained social ownership of the means of production.

I will make a few short points and then I'm off to walk my dog,

1) Compromised values are compromised, but they are no longer values.

2) Politics without morality, is what we already have.

3) The federal NDP has jettisoned the policies of the CCF for political expedience and to appeal to the reality as shaped by media perception, and how often have they held power? What is the tangible result of sacrificing the policies and values that defined Canadian social democracy?

4) One can't really defeat the enemy by joining with him.

5) Lastly, one can't win the battle at home without understanding the global nature of the battle and finding common cause with the voiceless, increasingly landless indigenous peoples of the world. And that can't be done by denying the human rights abuses and dispossession of Palestinians out of a fear of offending those directly responsible.

Have a great day George.

So you're saying Tommy Douglas was a Stalinist ... I'm sure CSIS has your back on that one. But, Fidel, I think the reference to Cuba is your cue.

Unionist wrote:

Just hooooold on a minute there, folks, this thread is about Cheri DiNovo, and I'm dragging it back to on-topic-land

Wow the socially irresponsible  who support none of the 20-some odd registered political parties are out in full force today.

George, this is what we get for trying to veer on-topic out of the Cheri Dinovo rhubarb. How dare we discuss Pinocchio's record in Ontario in a thread about Ontario politics.

We know. You dislike Pinocchio McGuilty and the rest of the neoliberal ideologues in bananada so much that you can't bring yourself to even mention them. And that's understandable.

Fidel wrote:

 You dislike Pinocchio McGuilty and the rest of the neoliberal ideologues in bananada so much that you can't bring yourself to even mention them.

No fair!

Anyway, I carefully reviewed the recipe for [url=http://www.hub-uk.com/family/family0038.htm]Pinocchio cake[/url], and there are no bananadas in it whatsoever - only fresh berries and flaked almonds!!

So there!

No actually George - it is called a disagreement. Doesn't mean anything else besides that. You and Fidel can try to paint us into a part of some nefarious plot to bring down the NDP and those on the left who strongly disagree with DiNovo - doesn't make it one bit true.

Are you not even able to answer the question? Was CDN right or wrong George? It is that basic.

They must have misread the title as saying sometthing to the effect of 'Cherries, my old Chevy Nova, and the beyond', or something.

I think if we want to keep the crazies out we'll have to entitle a thread with something like, Pinocchio McGuilty's Neoliberalorama in have-not Ontario.

They won't get that one at all. So maybe we'd better leave them this window of opportunity with the current thread title, or they just won't talk to us at all.

While the party loyalists regress to the trenches to fight a rear guard action against reason:

Quote:

The Following letter was sent to Ms. Cheri DiNovo on March 15, 2010

Let Palestinian Christians Worship this Easter with No Apartheid Passes

Easter Appeal to Ms. Cheri DiNovo, Ontario MPP and United Church Minister

I have followed with dismay the role you played, perhaps unwittingly, in the destructive Ontario Legislature motion on Feb. 25, 2010 regarding Israeli Apartheid Week. You were quoted in the Star as saying that the word apartheid is “inflammatory” and ”used inappropriately in the case of Israel", and that “Apartheid does not help the discussion”. http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/771761--mpps-decry-linking-i....
It was painful to hear these words from a NDP legislator and especially after we knew you are also a United Church Minister.

Last August, the United Church Conference passed a resolution that legitimized Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (Christians and Muslims), supported the discriminatory nature of Israel and annulled the right of Christians and Muslims in the Holy Land. The resolution 1(g) called for:
”The recognition by the emergent State of Palestine of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state within safe and secure borders.”

This was then followed by a contradictory clause about “equal citizenship rights, protections, privileges and responsibilities for all”, rendered meaningless however by the earlier section.

It is outrageous in the first place to recognize any modern state as a religious entity, which excludes others and makes them feel unwanted. What is more outrageous is to then tell those excluded people they must also recognize their own oppressors. It smacks of a sense of cultural superiority and accordingly racism.

This United Church resolution and then your support for the legislative resolution that intended to silence students on university campuses, who want to explain and raise awareness about the injustices the Palestinian people are facing, are a betrayal of the Palestinians and especially the Christian Palestinians.

We are aware of the bullying role of the Zionist leadership, who forced themselves on the United Church conference at times uninvited. However, we believe that succumbing to such pressure is unethical and unprincipled and does not provide any spiritual or community leadership. Consequently, Zionist officials have openly bragged about their role in influencing church policies (see: http://www.cjc.ca/2009/09/03/the-united-church-conference-a-first-hand-a...).

I do not know if you are aware of the book "The unHoly Land" by Reverend Dr. A.C. Forrest, the former editor of the United Church Observer. You might learn about, Zionism, some of the Zionist slanderous tactics and also about his courage, commitment to the truth, his dedication to humanity and the teachings of his church. Here is a quote from his book: “I have found no way to criticize the policies of the State of Israel, or question the philosophy of political Zionism, or tell my readers what the facts of the Middle East are, and escape slander and libel from the Zionist-Israeli community.”
http://www.canpalnet-ottawa.org/The%20Unholy%20Land.pdf

As a Palestinian Christian who has been the victim of Israeli Apartheid and experienced it first hand, I support the many anti-Apartheid South African leaders who have stated clearly and categorically that Israeli Apartheid is worse than South African Apartheid. A relevant example now is that Palestinian Christians (and Muslims for that matter) are not allowed freedom of worship at their holy places by the Israeli government. Please note the call by Palestinian Christian leaders this Easter to abolish the Israeli permits needed to go to the Holy Sepulchre Church in Jerusalem in the article entitled “Palestinians Demand Entry to Jerusalem without permits during the Holy Week of Easter”. http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=58203
I challenge you along with your fellow United Church members to do something in solidarity with your Christian brothers and sisters.

Many Palestinian Christians feel incredibly frustrated and betrayed by Canada’s mainstream churches. Many Western Christians will state they are trying to address the church’s history of racism and abuse against Jewish people. But this motivation cannot be used as a convenient smokescreen, which it often is, to participate in the oppression of yet another people, in this case the Palestinians. The guilt of western Christians must not be another burden for the struggling Palestinians to have to bear.

I urge everyone to act now to concretely support the Palestinians, in ways the Palestinians say are important, and to show courage and leadership on this issue. Please do not repeat the mistakes made by Western churches in the horrific oppression of our indigenous sisters and brothers in Canada. This time there is no chance to say you did not comprehend the magnitude of what was unfolding.

History will not be kind - Justice delayed is justice denied!

Hanna Kawas
Chairperson,
Canada Palestine Association
www.cpavancouver.org
March 15, 2010

Hanna Kawas wrote:

Please do not repeat the mistakes made by Western churches in the horrific oppression of our indigenous sisters and brothers in Canada.

That should have ended with,

...and for which Canadian apartheid was and continues to be systematic under a succession of Liberal and Tory federal governments. 

Are you trying to say Whigs n Tories knew nothing of the abuse happening under their noses? Were they like Sargent Schulz from Hogan's Heroes, I know nothing! Noth-ing! ?

And thank goodness for provincial NDP governments settling land claims. Our two dirty old line party governments, in power federally for about twice as long as the Soviets ruled the USSR, were directly responsible for having created the apartheid situation that still exists today by the very racist policies of federal Indian Act and historical oppression of natives in general.

And Dudley George was the first native person executed by the state in Ontario in more than one-hundred years under the Mike Harris fascists.

Indigenous Canadians continue to live in thirdworld conditions across Northern Canada under federal mismanagement of the country's affairs in general. There is one other northern country where indigenous people do live with some dignity. Samis in Nordic country of Finland don't experience the grinding poverty and thirdworld mortality rates Canada's indigenous peoples do. And it's because Finland has strong federal government not the neoliberal stoogeorama emanating from Ottawa that we have today.

[url=http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?pub=bill&doc=C... C-9:

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Quote:

You do realize this divisive BS you and Fidel and parroting here on babble is not winning over any supporters right? You're lucky I always vote NDP but others who may not always vote this way will not be persuaded to vote for a party that when criticized throws it all back on us and then pretends we are Liberal stooges or secretly Harper supporters.

 

You said it, kiddo.   I'm thinking I should avoid babble at election times.  The last time I was on babble during a provincial election, some similarly-obnoxious NDP partisans convinced me to vote Green.

It's better than voting old line party. But the truth of the matter is that by virtue of mathematical quirks built-in to our obsolete electoral system, you threw away your one day of protest, and all is as it was before. I would like to vote for the perfect party, too. But it doesn't exist in the real world. Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news. And we hope you join the good fight soon.

Do you really think you're helping the NDP cause by acting this way?

Fidel wrote:

Stargazer wrote:

Or perhaps you'd like to write a letter to the Palestinian Christian woman who send out an open letter to CDN - you know, mocking her as a liberal shrill and telling her she secretly supports Liberals or whatever crap you're flinging at us today,

No, this is not sound logic and we said nothing remotely close to this unadulterated bullshit. We've merely said that the Churches in Canada were not wholly responsible for the abuse of native people and creating conditions of apartheid in Canada. Native people have been the charges of federal government in Ottawa for a long time leading up to their abdication of responsibilities through the very racist Indian Act. Truth is truth whether it hurts the two dirty rotten old line parties or not.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here Fidel. Not one bit. I wish it were "unadultered bullshit" but I'm proven right - again.

What are you saying by this Fidel? What the hell do churches or the Indian Act have in common with CDN's staunch support for Israel? Oh yes...the fact that CDN and The Cons support Apartheid. I get it. Wow, that one probably wasn't a good example for you to use.

And George - yes, you are right.

It's coming to Manitoba on Thursday

Hansard wrote:

Mr. Speaker: It's been announced that, under the assumption that the House will be sitting on next Thursday morning for private members' business, it's been announced under rule 31(9) that the private members' resolution to be considered next Thursday morning is the resolution on Denouncing Israeli Apartheid Week, and this is sponsored by the honourable member for Tuxedo.