Job interviews for the position of imam at mosques in Israel are conducted not by senior clerics but by the Shin Bet, Israel’s secret police, a labour tribunal has revealed.
Sheikh Ahmed Abu Ajwa, 36, is fighting the Shin Bet’s refusal to approve his appointment as an imam in a case that has lifted the lid on Israel’s secret surveillance of the country’s Islamic leaders.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100504/FOREIGN/70...
Mods, can we lose this title please?
Why?
Well, unless FM asks, I don't think I'll change the title, but it should be obvious that it is needlessly provocative and largely irrelevant to the subject matter in the OP. What is this thread supposed to be about, FM? Do you want me to change it to something more accurate?
I'd really like to know what Cheri's opinions of NAFTA and Canada's trade deal with Colombia are. What does she have to say about the triple-u old line party clique aka the senate?
Well, unless FM asks, I don't think I'll change the title, but it should be obvious that it is needlessly provocative and largely irrelevant to the subject matter in the OP. What is this thread supposed to be about, FM? Do you want me to change it to something more accurate?
I always had the impression that people of the left-leaning persuasion are analytical and think about phenomena in terms of their backgrouds and contexts. The title is very relevant and to th epoint: Cheri DiNovo seems to see Israel as the perfect state that is vitctimized and threatened by anyne who opposes it and not as a regime that is colonialist, racist, oppressive. This article shows how far the tentacles of Israel's oppression apparutus is reaching.
No reason whatsoever for the thread title to be changed. Those of us who attend Babble's "library" and can make the link between threads should not be penalized because some just visit once in a blue moon and thus cannot see any of these intellectual and topical links.
Cheri DiNovo is a heroine. The left needs more people like her!!
Ask for a provocation, get a provocation. I'll leave you to it.
Cheri DiNovo is a heroine. The left needs more people like her!!
How was your night out at the bar?
Cheri DiNovo is a heroine. The left needs more people like her!!
Yes, we need more people like her, willing to stand up to the powerless and speak truth to lack of power.
We need more people on the left who use their position within the state apparatus to slander solidarity movements.
We need more people on the left who are willing to prostrate themselves before Peter Shurman, the lone adjudicator of acceptable opinion, and say how wonderful it is that he is advancing the cause of rescinding free speech.
In short, we need more rats and scabs on the left. At least they don't offend "sensible" opinion - just anyone with a shred of decency or principle. And that is what being on the left is about: being in the middle and abandoning the left.
I wonder what Cheri's opinion of possible federal trade agreements with Birkina Faso or even Tuvalu might be? Anyone? Anyone else?
If she's able to make people like Cueball and Genstrike start frothing at the mouth then there must be something good about her.
Viva DiNovo - our great saviour.
Viva DiNovo!
If she's able to make people like Cueball and Genstrike start frothing at the mouth then there must be something good about her.
Viva DiNovo - our great saviour.
Oh yes, I'm such a terrible person. I'm what's wrong with the left. That whole thing about having principles and doing organizing, and not being completely consumed with electoral politics and the number of orange ties in the state apparatus and not being a complete self-serving opportunist.
People like you and DiNovo are what's wrong with the left - or whatever quasi-Blairite pseudo-left bullshit passes for the left in NDP circles these days.
Say, you know who else pisses me off? Jason Kenney. So I guess he's the great saviour of the left after DiNovo fizzles, eh?
Cheri's a provincial politician. She's a social democrat and cares about things that matter [u]in Ontario[/u], a province where due to their lacklustre performance in government, the governing Liberals would love nothing better than for voters to say, Hey! Look over there on the other side of the world! And it's all Cheri DiNovo's fault!! Obsolete FPTP elections can be dirty in the in between times, and I think voters have a responsibility to try and see clearly through the bullshit.
Cheri's a social democrat and cares about things that matter <u>in Ontario</u>, a province where the governing Liberals would love nothing better than for voters to say, Hey! Look over there on the other side of the world! And it's all Cheri DiNovo's fault!!
Um, it was Cheri who was talking about Israel in the legislature, not me. It was Cheri who sided with the Tories and voted to condemn IAW, singling out dedicaded activists like myself and my comrades in Ontario who worked their asses off to make IAW a reality. So I think I have the right to be a little pissed off.
And freedom of speech on Ontario campuses should matter in Ontario.
Oh wait, is that how the left works now? NDP politicians are allowed to smear us, and we have to smile and take it? Sorry, I didn't get the fucking memo.
It was Cheri who sided with the Tories and voted to condemn IAW,
Well that must also mean that Cheri, and hell, all of the ONDP really do stand for Israeli apartheid and Mike Harris' uncommon nonsense revolution, which in retrospect doesn't appear to have been all that far to the right compared with this government's record for soaring unemployment and skyrocketing deficits while pawning off the family jewels and silverware to their wealthy friends.
But as lefties who actually live in Ontario, all that secondary stuff about social democracy should take a back seat to what really does matter, which is Cheri DiNovo and her moonlighting as an agent of KAOS for the Israelis. What I need to know is, how can we implicate Cheri DiNovo in the 9/11 conspiracy theory? And if not, then it's all for nought anyway.
I can understand the argument that provincial politicians should only address issues which directly affect their province. I don't agree with it, but I can understand that argument. What I can't understand is using that argument to defend a provincial politician talking about how much they support the apartheid state of Israel and condemning peace activists.
So, does Israeli apartheid matter or not? If it does, then DiNovo did something very wrong when she supported that motion. If it doesn't, then DiNovo should have just stayed quiet.
This is further complicated by the fact that in the debate in the legislature, DiNovo mentioned putting the issues of Tibetans on the order paper. So, does the oppression of Tibetans matter and the oppression of Palestinians not matter? Apparently in Ontario it's okay to be racist, as long as you wear orange and that racism is targeted at Palestinians.
I wonder what members of Likud have to say about soaring unemployment, multi-billion dollar budget deficits, and largest numbers of Canadian children subsisting anywhere below the poverty line in Liberal Ontario. Or would it matter all that much what Likud Party members might have to say about long-time federal policies for Canadian apartheid under successive Liberal and Tory governments in Ottawa? Apparently some anti-racists in Canada can be selective when it comes to politics, and their words that ring hollow are all for the sake of political expediency.
nobody taking the public positions and making the statements that CDN has on behalf of the Zionist entity can possibly be considered 'left'. Ditto the no difference party. How ridiculous that such a thing can still be entertained by thinking people. Bourgeois liberal opportunists. Sellouts.
So who else can we vote for as a valid alternative to the NDP?
Insert the sound of summer crickets about now.
Cheri DiNovo is a heroine.
I prefer methadone myself.
Who else can we vote for besides the NDP Fidel asks. - assuming, as fucking usual, that any criticism of Cheri DiStructive means we are abandoning the NDP. Tell you what Fidel, it is that crap (and Stockholms BS) that will move people away from the NDP. Thankfully, most of us are not stupid, and can see that CheriDiStructive is NOT the voice of the NDP.Stifling free debate, and throwing progressive under the bus is NOT what I want an elected NDP member to do eh. Fuck Cheri DiStructive.
I wonder how much you CheriDiStructive boot lickers will be licking her boots when she crosses over to the Cons, because she will.
I am not about to defend Cheri's behaviour with respect to the motion in the house and the subsequent public flap.
However, exactly what does she have to do with this news story?
Any chance titles can be descriptive of the OP rather than oblique? Makes it easier to decide which threads to view.
Jrootham, she has nothing to do with this story, and the thread was opened in a provocative way and has stayed true to form.
There is, however, a point to be made, even though it is being made crudely here.
If a politician got up and said:
- that the Ontario legislature should condemn Pride marches because flaunting LGBT lifestyles in public is offensive and divisive and doesn't promote social harmony; or
- that the Ontario legislature should condemn demonstrations against (say) the invasion of Iraq because calling the U.S. "imperialist" or "warmongering" is divisive and offensive; or
- that the Ontario legislature should condemn any pro-First Nations activists that refer to non-Aboriginals as "settlers";
... progressive folks would likely be outraged. They would be unlikely to say: "Ah, but that politician is such a noble anti-poverty activist!", or other such nonsense.
Sadly, calling for the suppression of those who tell the truth about Israel isn't seen in the same light by some of us.
Question: Why not?
Viva DiNovo! She is the jewel of Ontario!
Viva DiNovo! She is the jewel of Ontario!
Could you please watch those anti-semitic descriptors, please? Thanks.
Yes, there is a point to be made. It was made repeatedly and with force in the multiple threads on the subject.
Is the standard behaviour on this board to consider the Arab-Israeli conflict entirely through the lens of Cheri DiNovo? Why? Explain to me how that is a good rhetorical device.
The other problem with the title is the use of the term racism. I believe that being sloppy with terms damages our abiiity to deal with the issues. Amongst other problems it opens us up to being accused of being ignorant, illiterate fools by the opposition. It's like referring to all right wingers as fascists.
Yes, there is a point to be made. It was made repeatedly and with force in the multiple threads on the subject.
Did you agree with my point above? Just curious.
Is the standard behaviour on this board to consider the Arab-Israeli conflict entirely through the lens of Cheri DiNovo? Why? Explain to me how that is a good rhetorical device.
It's not a good device. This thread was opened in a baiting, ultra-provocative, probably ill-considered way, reflecting more emotion than thought.
But instead of harping on that rather obvious point, why not deal with this more substantive issue:
What's the difference between what Cheri DiNovo did and any other call for parliament or legislatures to condemn activists fighting in a just cause?
And why do progressive people see such a sin as different, or less significant, than those of a Bev Desjarlais for example, who in fact was only expressing her personal view - she never actually went to the extreme of saying that activists working for legalization of SSM should be condemned by Parliament?
How about just changing the thread title and maybe the issue in the OP can be discussed. Or is the info re. Shin Bet vetting Imams just a jumping off point for taking cheap shots at DiNovo?
I do wonder at what point this becomes obsessive.
Yes, I agree with you on Cheri DiNovo's behavour in the Legislature. It was bad.
I took the bait in the title because I would like to see Babble as a positive force and this kind of crap damages it.
Imagine is someone started a thread about some sexist, homophobic policy from Hamas and entitled it "Would this be bigoted enough for Sid Ryan?"
Its all very gratuitous.
Actually it is not gratutitous at all. I read Cheri DiNovo's comments as refelcted in the Tribune. So when I read that the apparatus of this brutal. racist state goes so far as to approve who can preach at mosques, I thought this goes further even than the white slave regime of the US ever did. And then I thought of Cheri DiNovo and her comments in the Tribune. And it is a serious question. When does racism this extreme finally earn the anger of a social progressive like DiNovo? I find it interesting, also, that the racism doesn't offend so much as the use of DiNovo's name in the thread title. To me, that underscores the acceptance of racism in our own society and among so-called progressives themselves.
I wonder what process Hamas allows for synagogues in Gaza to choose rabbis?
Actually, FM, "fascism" might better describe what the authorities are doing in this case. I don't see it as racist in any but a very remote sense. As far as "racism" goes, the whole fabric of Israeli society has far more shocking tales than this one.
...and in Saudi Arabia no houses of worship that are non-Muslim are allowed to exist at all. Period. If you want the ultimate example of a racist, fascist state - look no further than Saudi Arabia!!
If you want the ultimate example of a racist, fascist state - look no further than Saudi Arabia!!
Sorry, Stock, when I look no further than Saudi Arabia, I see Israel!
From the same article linked in the OP
Michael Sfard, a human rights lawyer representing Sheikh Abu Ajwa, said that, as far as it could be determined, no similar vetting of rabbis took place before their hiring.
"This sort of surveillance relating to a non-security position like an imam comes straight out of the era of the Stasi police in East Germany or the McCarthy period in the United States," he said.
The traditional independence of the local Islamic authorities was removed at Israel's creation in 1948, when the government confiscated almost all waqf property - endowments of land and property used for the benefit of the Palestinian Muslim community - removing the main source of income for clerics, the Islamic courts and charitable services.
Today, most imams and all Islamic judges must submit to a security clearance interview before being awarded a state salary.
I wonder what process Hamas allows for synagogues in Gaza to choose rabbis?
Gaza is an Israeli enforce ghetto for Palestinians only. You know that Stocky. I'm still not sure why it is you want to defend Israeli racism and, okay, fascism.
Cheri DiNovo is a heroine. The left needs more people like her!!
Spoken like a true liberal.
Let's e-mail the director of public relations for hamas and ask what their policy is on synagogues in their territory.
I see this thread has achieved all of its objectives. Off to the dentist for my drug of choice, nitrous oxide.
How many Jews live in Gaza, Stockholm? It's the most crowded place on the planet, and its inhabitants suffer from chronic malnutrition and illness as a consequence of the Israeli blockade. When Gazans aren't dying of preventable diseases they are being killed by US-supplied Israeli weaponry.
You also seem to forget that Ariel Sharon evacuated the Jews from Gaza before turning it into the world's biggest free-range concentration camp.
Shouldn't this be in the Anti-racism forum?
Mods? Isn't that where CDN's racism should be discussed, and can it be moved there?
And it's all Cheri DiNovo's fault, damn her. Damn her to hell for all eternity.
I hear she's vetting Imams now or something.
How many Jews live in Gaza, Stockholm?
None. They were all kicked out of their homes in an attempt at moving forward the peace process. Now, Gaza is used to routinely launch rockets at daycare centres in Sderot.
Lousy title because it obscures the responsibility of Israel.
I can understand why vetting clergy could be seen as a security issue. Imagine if all around the world countries started to do the same to Catholic priests. Seems to me there is just cause for the state to want to vet who can become a priest as protection for children around the planet. The lives of thousands of children would be spared from trauma.
Ok, so we were all spoiling for a fight and hopefully we got what we came for. Maybe if we want to talk about CDN or Gaza in the future we can do it in more or less good faith. Ha.
Anyway, closing for "length."
