continued from here
Margaret Atwood Accepts Israel's Dirty Prize Money -Still Shameful!
Tue, 2010-05-11 12:35
#1
remind
Margaret Atwood Accepts Israel's Dirty Prize Money -Still Shameful!
Tue, 2010-05-11 12:50
#2
remind
One thing I find particularly ironic about Atwood's ultra-whiney "I am the victim" trope is her claim that "writers have no armies". There she is ensconsed in the protection of one of the most powerful military machines on earth, one that is entirely dedicated to stripping the original inhabitants of the region where the University of Tel Aviv sits, so that her and her colleagues can hob-knob with each other, give eloquent speeches, and wax poetic about climate change without fear of interuption from the millions who were dispossessed in order to arrange for her comfort
This pretty much sums up the reality of IT all.
Once you start denoting people(s), for any reason, as "elites", then a situation is created whereby the "elites" believe that mundane human(e) things just no longer apply to them. They appear to be able to scapegoat themselves into believing that the number of "good works" they can do, now that they are "elite", outweighs the bad things they do, by their wrongly believing they are actually "elite".
Tue, 2010-05-11 17:23
#3
Frustrated Mess
Respectfully, your position amounts to: You're either with us or against us. Zionists are evil doers.
There ARE two sides.
To the extent that the Palestinian side believes that western liberals and academics want an outcome to end "the total occupation of Palestine" I believe that the rejectionist side wiill be encouraged. That in turn feeds into the right wing in Israel who will say "see, they reject Israel."
The only hope is that a fair minded US administration will get things going again. The parties already have agreed on the basic deal. There will be those on both sides who never will accept it. But a BDS that is totally rejectionist is a total failure.
There are always two sides. Every murderer has a side. Every priest who abused a child has a side. Slave holders have a side. Nazism had a side. For the purpose of this discussion, we could say there is the side of justice and the side of injustice. I choose the side of justice and I really don't care for the rationalizations of your side.
Racism is evil. Do you dispute that? If not, then you must accept that a racist ideology is also evil. And Zionism is a racist ideology. What makes Zionism racist is the denial of humanity, civil, social, and political rights of Palestinians that gave way to ethnic cleansing, dispossession, cultural genocide, imprisonment, policies of exclusion, brutality, and mass murder.
There is no such thing as a fair minded US administration. The US will pull the plug on Israel and the racist Zionist project just as soon as the last profitable barrel of oil has been extracted from beneath the feet of an oppressed and beaten Arab nation. Then the social and political elite will flee Israel for the comfort of Western states where their blood soaked money will still buy a nice dinner and the settlers will be abandoned to form the plot line to another epic story of biblical proportions.
ETA: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/a-massacre-of-arabs-...
Tue, 2010-05-11 17:26
#4
N.Beltov
FYI - the disgrace of Margaret Atwood. Seems the famous writer thinks the moon landing was a fake. And she could give a s*it about science. And so on.
Spartan Youth Radio interview with M Atwood
OTOH, if she really is a wing nut, then it shouldn't be a big surprise about her low level of socio-political understanding.
Tue, 2010-05-11 17:30
#5
Snert
I heard -- and I'm NOT making this up -- that a few elections ago, she had both Liberal and Green Party signs on her lawn.
'Nuff said.
Tue, 2010-05-11 17:34
#6
N.Beltov
Snert - I don't agree with doing that but there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe Graeme supports the Greens and Margaret supports the Liberals.
Tue, 2010-05-11 18:01
#7
Snert
I'm not so much rolling my eyes at the fact that there were two; that could be simple indecision. But look at the two! Chance couldn't have done worse. :)
Tue, 2010-05-11 18:15
#8
Cueball
FYI - the disgrace of Margaret Atwood. Seems the famous writer thinks the moon landing was a fake. And she could give a s*it about science. And so on.
Spartan Youth Radio interview with M Atwood
OTOH, if she really is a wing nut, then it shouldn't be a big surprise about her low level of socio-political understanding.
Tue, 2010-05-11 19:46
#9
N.Beltov
Nice, Cue.
You know, it's not a big deal for me that Atwood might have some weird views. Hell, some people might think me weird. Somehow, we expect more from such important and recognizable public figures. And i the case of sports "celebrities" /athletes then it's probably a mistake on our part.
If Atwood actually said something like, "I'm too dumb to figure this out. Sorry about that. It won't happen again," then I might actually give her a pass. It's the whiny bullshit, the insistence that she's got it all figured out, the conceit, etc. , that chaps my ass.
None of us are above society because we are all a part of, and come from, society. Even great artists.
Tue, 2010-05-11 19:57
#10
Cueball
Or even if she had just said: "I need the 1/2 million".
Tue, 2010-05-11 20:13
#11
N.Beltov
Well, yea. Admit it. And maybe donate what she can afford out of it to ...PalFest or the Palestinian Festival of Literature.
It's a point the Nobel laureate Nadine Gordimer made forcefully when she visited the West Bank a couple of years ago. Writers have a duty, she suggested, to put forward what she called an inner testimony, "to talk about what is actually going on, not just on the surface but deep within, the factors that shape the emotional and social landscape, even if unseen or unacknowledged."
The PalFest has been going on while Atwood gets her award on the other side of the apartheid wall. Good thing she's Canadian and not Palestinian or she'd never have made it.
Here's some more from that Guardian piece ...
When it comes to literary festivals, the way it usually works is that the organisers find a nice spot for writers to set up shop, then wait for the public to turn up to listen to the writers talk. In Palestine, though, things are a little different. Here, it's the job of the writers to go out and travel from city to city, seeking out an audience. And here, the writers listen as much as they talk: to the people whom they've come to meet about the realities of life under military occupation....The reason behind the festival's unusual structure is a pragmatic one. On the West Bank, the most immediate effect of Israel's military presence is the restrictions it places on freedom of movement for Palestinians. Between security roadblocks and Israeli settlements, the simple act of travelling becomes anything but; a short journey between cities can take as much as half a day. So the guest writers - this year including Geoff Dyer, Hisham Mater, William Sutcliffe and Adam Foulds, alongside local writers such as the Orwell prize-winner Raja Shedadeh and Suad Amiry - make the journeys themselves, touring Jenin, Nablus, Bethlehem and the Old City of Jerusalem and observing everyday life in Palestine.
Wed, 2010-05-12 03:21
#12
Boycott Those Who Refuse to Boycott:
http://endisraeliapartheid.blogspot.com/2010/05/boycott-those-who-refuse...
"The artists who refuse to honour the cultural boycott against apartheid in Israel need a wake-up call..."
BOYCOTT THOSE WHO REFUSE TO BOYCOTT
Wed, 2010-05-12 03:42
#13
NDPPI'm not so much rolling my eyes at the fact that there were two; that could be simple indecision. But look at the two! Chance couldn't have done worse. :)
the other two would be equally bad - it's designed that way in this fixed game.
Wed, 2010-05-12 10:06
#14
N.Beltov
More than 50 organizations and artists from eight countries have written to legendary political singer and poet Gil Scott-Heron to thank him for his decision to drop Israel from his current tour. The letter, facilitated by Adalah-NY, highlighted the parallels between the South African apartheid that Scott-Heron crusaded against decades ago and the Israeli system that currently subjugates Palestinians.
Electronic Intifadah: Artists thank Gil Scott-Heron for heeding boycott call
"To salvage its deteriorating image abroad, Israel has launched a 'rebranding' campaign which uses arts and culture to whitewash its violations of international law and Palestinian human rights," said Randa Wahbe of Adalah-NY. Gil Scott-Heron is the latest in a list of notable artists, including Sting, Bono, Snoop Dogg and Carlos Santana, who have recently declined to play Israel. Distinguished artists, writers and peace activists -- among them John Berger, Arundhati Roy, Adrienne Rich, Ken Loach, Naomi Klein, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Alice Walker -- have declared support for the BDS movement.
"Gil Scott-Heron's decision to cancel his concert in Tel Aviv is warmly welcomed by all of us here in Gaza and Palestinian civil society at large. This does not come as a surprise to us due to his luminous heritage in support of the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa. Once again, we wholeheartedly thank him for heeding our call for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel, until it complies with its obligations under international law and fully respects Palestinian rights."
...... a rebranding campaign using arts and culture to whitewash violations of international law and human rights.
OTOH, for Atwood we have ...
for Atwood, at least, it comes down to whether or not a cultural boycott is equivalent to censorship. But as filmmaker Cathy Gulkin said in an article posted on the US Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel's website on 6 May, the two issues are distinct. Gulkin said that censorship is wielded by a force with the power to prevent a work from being presented, while a boycott asks artists to withdraw their work voluntarily. She participated in a boycott of the Tel Aviv International Film Festival last winter."Palestinian civil society has no power or will to silence or censor. They can only appeal to people of conscience ... to support them in their struggle to achieve their human rights," Gulkin wrote in her call to boycott last winter.
Atwood on the wrong side of history
Wed, 2010-05-12 13:12
#15
I wonder what would be the literary consequence of a Peg Atwood sleep-over in Gaza. Would she write how the bleak landscape of a bombed-out refugee camp informs the character of its inhabitants? Would she call such a piece "Survival," or would that be too derivative?
Wed, 2010-05-12 13:25
#16
Snert
BOYCOTT THOSE WHO REFUSE TO BOYCOTT
And I think it goes without saying that if someone refuses to boycott those who refuse to boycott... well, you get the idea.
Wed, 2010-05-12 13:26
#17
remind
Was just thinking myself earlier this am, while pouring a coffee, that Atwood made a statement to the world at large that she choose them, and not the peoples of the world.
In doing so, she has made a step in fulfilling, or ensuring The Handmaiden's Tale comes to fruition.
And then I come here to see NBeltov redded it nicely, Atwood has come down on the wrong side of history, and indeed humanity.
Her self promoting pretentions have been exposed for what they are.
Wed, 2010-05-12 13:37
#18
Electronic Intifadah: Artists thank Gil Scott-Heron for heeding boycott call
In the wake of the cancellation, Facebook groups have sprung up calling on Elvis Costello, Joan Armatrading and Bob Dylan to cancel their planned concerts in Israel. On 5 May, PACBI issued its own call to Armatrading.
I doubt if little Bobby (Neighbourhood Bully) Zimmerman could be talked out of supporting Israel.
Fri, 2010-05-14 13:18
#19
Margaret Atwood's Price
http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2010/05/margaret-atwoods-price.html
"So here's the challenge we should be now posing to Margaret Atwood. Use the money for good. Help Palestinian students get the books, paper, computers and other supplies that they need...
Use your influence to open some doors and windows in that vast prison known as Gaza.."
'the fly that sips treacle is lost in the sweets' - Beggars Opera
Fri, 2010-05-14 22:06
#20
N.Beltov
I hope that Atwood has been stung by this. A great artist, discovering a truth belatedly, can accomplish great things.
C'mon, girl. You were great once. Be great again.
There was a dream that was Canada.
Fri, 2010-05-14 22:08
#21
Tomorrow's Nakba Day.
I won't go through with it, but I'm inclined to dig out my copy of The Journals of Susanna Moodie and burn it in the parking lot in front of Chapters.
Fri, 2010-05-14 22:09
#22
N.Beltov
I'll join ya. I think the nearest Chapter to me is in Nanaimo or Victoria, however. Somebody should give this Canadian literary icon a slap.
Before it's too late.
Sat, 2010-05-15 00:55
#23
remind
Not going to happen she probably had to sign a paper stating she would not do anything like that with the money....
You know what is really sickening about this, is that "progressives" who are co-opted by the Zionists, really are being paid to affirm to the Zionists that they were correct all along....
It seems lost on both the corruptor and the corruptee who ignores for self gratification the full implications of their actions.
Zionists purchase the glitter that covers their actions aka, Cohen, Atwood et al, thus allowing them to continue,while those they have purchased, get bigger bank accounts, and the award ego gratification telling them they are "someone".
The truth that their actions are nasty, destroying actions, is beyond them.
ETA:
Then again perhaps not, perhaps people like Atwood are only pretending to be activists, to further the Zionist agenda from the get go....
Sat, 2010-05-15 01:26
#24
remind
Chapters in Nanaimo is out by Woodgrove.
Me thinks she lost her "icon" status.
Sat, 2010-05-15 01:46
#25
As Maggie was getting her prize and big fat cheque in Tel Aviv..
Israel's Red Line: Shin Bet Arrests Leader of Boycott Movement
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19166
"the detention of Amir Makhoul and Omar Sayid is seen differently - as the gathering storm clouds in a political climate already fiercely hostile to its Palestinian citizens.."
Shame, shame, again and again upon her
Sat, 2010-05-15 23:17
#26
Chapters in Nanaimo is out by Woodgrove.
I've actually been in that place....before the boycott, of course.
Sun, 2010-05-16 00:19
#27
N.Beltov
Well, if we're doing confessions, i admit to being paid by Chapters for an artistic/literary activity in one of their stores. Also, BB. However, I didn't like them already. I felt vaguely sluttish - like writing for the National Post or something - even though I badly needed the money and the self-esteeem that came from getting paid to do what I loved.
To paraphrase Marx, one big box store kills many smaller stores. And, in the case of bookstores, the stores being "killed" were just the sort of stores that friends of mine worked at, where interesting artistic and social events took place, and so on. In Winnipeg there was Mary Scorer Books, Heaven and Art Book Cafe, ...
Sun, 2010-05-16 00:39
#28
We used to have a Mary Scorer in Saskatoon. There's a big bookstore here called McNally Robinson that snuffed out the little guys.
OK, I'll fess up too. I entered a Chapters in Regina a couple of years ago. Mme. Qa'bong was looking for some special book for one of the Bongettes that we couldn't find in Saskatoon. Chapters hadn't opened here yet. I ended up buying a history of Hamas and a collection of writings and speeches of Hezbollah bigshot (and maybe a distant cousin of mine) Hassan Nasrallah. I figured if I was going to buy anything in Chapters, these two books would be OK.
Sun, 2010-05-16 08:31
#29
Maysie
McNally Robinson declared bankruptcy late last year. They were a small(ish) Canadian chain.
And I forgive you, N.Beltov. 
Sun, 2010-05-16 13:24
#30
Reports of McNally Robinson's demise are greatly exaggerated. The store is still open here.
Sun, 2010-05-16 14:01
#31
remind
Never been in a Chapters, ever, and cannot imagine a scenario where I would be so induced.
Having a hard time with the reality that our local library gets its books from them. And I am wondering if BC libraries all have a contract with them.
maysie you are apparently much more tolerant than I, as I am not so forgiving of Beltov's sexism, contained in his "vaguely sluttish" analogy.
His having not been a "slut" means he never would know what it feels like in the first place, and secondly, what he felt was guilt at being materialistic over what he believed his moral code was....they met his personal price and he found it was lower than what he tought, the added ego gratification was all that was needed, it seems.
To liken that to what a "slut" may, or may not, feel is unacceptable.
He needs no forgiveness, from outside himself, for his own lack of moral integrity, based upon his own measure. It is his measure afterall.
Sun, 2010-05-16 14:02
#32
Maysie
The store may be open but the franchise has declared bankruptcy, alQ.
remind, I was referring to the Chapters gig that N.Beltov shared. Everyone surely knows my detesting of Chapters/Indigo and amazon from my years of toiling at an independent bookseller in Toronto. It's only tangential to me that the Reisman/Schwartz family are Israel supporters.
As for N.Beltov's use of "sluttish", I agree with you, remind and I missed it. I consider N an ally and that this was a minor slip, but YMMV.
Sun, 2010-05-16 14:05
#33
Maysie
... and speaking of tangents, we're sure on one, and I think it's partly my fault.
Back to Atwood, shall we?
Sun, 2010-05-16 14:24
#34
Stupid comment removed.
Sun, 2010-05-16 14:42
#35
remind
Thank you polunatic,
Maysie what does YMMV stand for?
That is how blind people are to the nasty nature of sexism so much so they over look it, and frankly I grow tired of it. Women are doing so at their own peril.
Sun, 2010-05-16 15:11
#36
Maysie what does YMMV stand for?
Well, long ago in the North End of Winnipeg, it was short for: "Your momma makes varenikes."
ETA: Whoops, sorry, you were asking Maysie...
Sun, 2010-05-16 15:26
#37
Maysie
.... your mileage may vary...
remind, sometimes I don't notice comments, and sometimes I ignore them, as I don't wish to engage in ongoing fights with those I consider allies here on babble. They are few and far between. YMMV.
As an example.....
Your use of "blind" in post #34 to indicate negativity is ableist and problematic.
You see, remind, when someone has shown to me that they "get it" (Such as N.Beltov. And you, in this case), I'm far more forgiving than if some random person does it. This was a perfect example of exactly what I mean.
Sun, 2010-05-16 15:42
#38
hsfreethinkers
Just came back to babble after a bit of a break. Read three threads. In two of them remind called someone sexist. Hmmm... Ah well, carry on.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:03
#39
Cueball
Who cares? She has a right to make side comments about form. You are free to ignore them, and enter in on the subject topic. But it seems you would rather also make side comments about form.
Myself, I recognize that the board has certain standards that many people want to see applied on this board, and that includes not using terms and invective that are problematic for some people. I am far more interested in communicating what I want to communicate and can always find handles that are more acceptable to the group at large, and have no need to defend usages of certain terms of phrases on the grounds of freedom of speech or semantics and what have you, when using them has so little value, and when a defense of them amounts to massive irrelevant thread drift.
I can easily work in "sell out" for "slut", and it conveys the meaning just as well.
It's called respect.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:11
#40
hsfreethinkers
Who cares? She has a right to make side comments about form.
I care, having been on the receiving end of one of those "side comments" a few months back.
About Margaret Atwood, I'm withholding judgment for now. I'll see what she has to say about the Israel-Palestine issue over the next few months, and whether she announces any plans for the cash.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:19
#41
Cueball
Then get a thicker skin. It's ok. Someone calls you sexist, you are just going to have to deal with it. Toughen up lad.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:41
#42
Cueball
It is in the context of what N. Beltov was saying and the meaning he intended.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:46
#43
remind
Na maysie, blind has nothing to do with peoople who are vision impaired, there are game(as in hunting)blinds, window blinds, car blinds, and they all block views.
In this case, blocking the view was patriarchial analogies about themselves in negative compare with those(women) who are perceived to be sexually easy, or indeed who sell their sex acts.
Still have not made up my mind whether he is an ally, or not, given the way he carries on about "left" purism, while indeed is sexist in his commentary upon many occasions...just grew tired of ignoring it on this occasion.
It is happpening more and more frequently on babble, and the men just keep on keeping on, and one would think after all these years of being members of this community, they would have realized differently and made changes, if they really were allies.
It is a BIG issue here maysie, and I am not sure that those who are overlooking it, are even allies, be they women, or not.
If keeping them as so called "allies" requires that we women here, continue to ignore, or overlook such things, then IMV they are NOT allies.
...."slut" and "sell out" are not interchangeable IMV.
Sun, 2010-05-16 16:49
#44
remind
... agree with that specific to this case in point, as it is the word, or similar to that, he should have used, about himself, as opposed to "sluttish".
Sun, 2010-05-16 17:14
#45
[URL=http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=175714]Noam Chomsky denied entry to Israel[/URL]
Interesting contrast. Chomsky good sense of humour: "No government likes my views."
Sun, 2010-05-16 17:17
#46
Chomsky out, Atwood in - it's Israel's new definition of Jewish.
Sun, 2010-05-16 17:36
#47
It appears from that link and from this one, to [URL=http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/noam-chomsky-denied-entry-into-isra... that what was bothering the Israeli interviewers was that Chomsky was going to speak only at Bir Zeit in the West Bank, and not going to Israel as well. Interesting grounds on which to quibble, eh?
Sun, 2010-05-16 18:10
#48
N.Beltov
Whoa. I thought that was a gender neutral insult. (Even if directed at myself) Apparently, "slut" hasn't been gender neutral since the time of Chaucer. mea culpa.
Anyway, I have no intention of going into Chapters anymore, for whatever reason, as there are plenty of other bookstores to go to.
I should mention, however, for those who don't know the book business in Canada that stores like Chapters engage in what are called predatory business practices. Think Wal-Mart. Such predatory practices include: buying up ALL the copies of a popular book from the publisher (or insisting on an exclusive arrangement) so that only those who buy from the predator can get a certain book; strong-arming small publishers into arrangements in which the big buyer can "return" all the unsold books at cost, no matter how long it takes, and so on. Some Canadian publishers have actually been put out of business that way.
Sun, 2010-05-16 23:49
#49
remind
Just wanna mention, that I did not mean maysie above, when I was speaking about women NOT being allies.
Mon, 2010-05-17 08:37
#50
hsfreethinkers
Apologies if this was posted before: [URL=http://marg09.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/1266/]Amitav Ghosh's Reply to Letter of May 7[/URL]
Mon, 2010-05-17 09:07
#51
Cueball
He's a totally duplicitous con artist. No one has suggested that the intention of the boycott was the destruction of Israel. It's just pure fiction. A straw man.
I see he felt that it was totally necessary to print in his response a couple of completely sychophantic letters sent by someone in Israel as an example of the "good work" he was doing. One letter begins with an off-hand reference about opposition to the occupation, and then proceeds to gush on and on about how great he is, as if that is relevant to the politics. The other is the same, with some reference to doing charity work of some kind or other.
Guess he is feeling a little insecure, and needs to print some Amitav Ghosh fan mail, in his defense.