G8/G20: It's coming

Well that is a consumable,  manpower is wateful if it only provides a service(like this). Wind turbines leave the impression that governments can do something right with money. Cant have that.

They want all canadians to hate government, This iis the stated goal. This allows corporate control to be easier. Their supporters actually believe that cons believe in small governement when all signs point otherwise(they believe that police army and spying is exceptable use of tax dollars just not commy stuff like education health or road repairs)

So the cons don't lose support but actually increase it in those that hate government while making other apathetic thus making their rediculous base support more powerful. If the other parties got just another 10 of eligible voters to believe in their platforms, no matter how it would break(lib/bc ndp green) it would be a significant change in the polls. but it is also true that the opposite works when peopel just get tired and stop voting, making the hard core cons that much more powerful.

Which option would you prefer - the security or the wind turbines?

I'd far rather have the turbines, but do turbines really last for twenty years, with low maintenance?

'It Was Really Brutal'

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2010/05/27/FairmontProtest/

"What really happened outside the Fairmont Hotel at the G8 University Summit protest.."

Cytizen H wrote:

Noah_Scape wrote:

[ I used to want change, but now that I am being lumped in with and classified as an anarchist, I might as well act like one

Act like an anarchist? Like, what, you mean doing anti-oppression and anti-colonial work in small groups, based in communities, with no centralized power structure? That's what you meant, right? 'cuz i'm sure you weren't just being a jerk about it.

It drives me nuts that people feel that anarchism is synonymous with violence in spite of their complete ignorance of what anarchism actually is

sonic canons to be used against protesters:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/05/27/14146366.html

Quote:

We invite everyone to join us with their own signs and placards. And your own cameras and recorders. On a walk through the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The G20's policies impact our communities everywhere - our resistance is also everywhere.

 

NOTE: Speakers at this event include people who have faced police intimidation and violence, organizers from the summit legal project and community organizers.

I have a hard time seeing the point of this. I'm really thinking twice about attending. Any sort of civilized protest or speakers speaking will be drown out by the violent assholes there who get off on fighting with the police. The police will turn around and use that as an excuse to go after EVERYONE. Do you think the media really cares what we think or what we're saying? All they care about is videotaping some punks smashing windows or clashes with the police.

We need a group of volunteers who will go around and unmask all these people take pictures of them commiting crimes and give that to police. Maybe then the rest of us will be able to actually reach people with our message and not be backround noise.

SparkyOne wrote:

Quote:

We invite everyone to join us with their own signs and placards. And your own cameras and recorders. On a walk through the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The G20's policies impact our communities everywhere - our resistance is also everywhere.

 

NOTE: Speakers at this event include people who have faced police intimidation and violence, organizers from the summit legal project and community organizers.

 

I have a hard time seeing the point of this. I'm really thinking twice about attending. Any sort of civilized protest or speakers speaking will be drown out by the violent assholes there who get off on fighting with the police. The police will turn around and use that as an excuse to go after EVERYONE. Do you think the media really cares what we think or what we're saying? All they care about is videotaping some punks smashing windows or clashes with the police.

We need a group of volunteers who will go around and unmask all these people take pictures of them commiting crimes and give that to police. Maybe then the rest of us will be able to actually reach people with our message and not be backround noise.

The above poster forgot to post the link to the organization behind the events that this poster feels privileged enough to discount and slander.

http://g20.torontomobilize.org/

Sparky please don't go to any demonstrations if you intend to act as a police informant.  I find your post both disturbing and vile.  Maybe your little band can all dress the same.  May I suggest brown would be a good colour for your shirts as you help the police unmask the evil anarchists.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

SparkyOne wrote:

Quote:

We invite everyone to join us with their own signs and placards. And your own cameras and recorders. On a walk through the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The G20's policies impact our communities everywhere - our resistance is also everywhere.

 

NOTE: Speakers at this event include people who have faced police intimidation and violence, organizers from the summit legal project and community organizers.

 

I have a hard time seeing the point of this. I'm really thinking twice about attending. Any sort of civilized protest or speakers speaking will be drown out by the violent assholes there who get off on fighting with the police. The police will turn around and use that as an excuse to go after EVERYONE. Do you think the media really cares what we think or what we're saying? All they care about is videotaping some punks smashing windows or clashes with the police.

We need a group of volunteers who will go around and unmask all these people take pictures of them commiting crimes and give that to police. Maybe then the rest of us will be able to actually reach people with our message and not be backround noise.

The above poster forgot to post the link to the organization behind the events that this poster feels privileged enough to discount and slander.

http://g20.torontomobilize.org/

 

Sparky please don't go to any demonstrations if you intend to act as a police informant.  I find your post both disturbing and vile.  Maybe your little band can all dress the same.  May I suggest brown would be a good colour for your shirts as you help the police unmask the evil anarchists.

My friends and I are putting a lot of time money and effort into attending this. Tell me kropotkin are you actually attending or are you just going to post about it?

I have no problems with taking pictures of people breaking the law and giving it to the police if it keeps them off my back. Maybe you think vandalisim is harmless and getting the riot cops all juiced up is all good in the name of free speech but I don't. The assholes that love the camera and love their bandanas smashing windows and breaking stuff are no friends of mine. They give the rest of us a bad name and why we're spending millions of dollars on security when it is desperately needed elsewhere.

Notwithstanding the "debate" about tactics (and I don't disagree about smashing things), I doubt that has any impact on the spending orgy that will highlight both Canada's conspicuous consumption and undemocratic restraints on freedom of expression, speech and movement. Between the Olympics and G8/G20, more than $2 billion has been poured into "security". If neither had taken place, that money would never be put into programs where they're desperately needed. 

I am not sure who these people are that are posting this slander but I note that the People's Summit website has a link on its Home Page to the G8/G20 TCML Home page.

It seems only on babble do some leftists think they are the true patriots of our home on native land.  

In the real world that the real organizers of the People's Summit live in you built bridges. Only fools and agent provocateurs try to create disunity where none exists.  The march is sponsored by the Toronto Community Mobilization Network.  It is one of the groups represented on the board of People's Summit.  Was there a falling out we haven't heard about.  Has the TCML been thrown off the board for one of their events.

I don't know the agenda of the people spreading this disinformation but this campaign to stop a protest march seems very disingenuous.  

And no I will not be traveling to Hog Town for a protest. But I was at a nice one the other day in Vancouver protesting against the murderous IDF attack on the aid ship.

http://peoplessummit2010.ca/section/2

Quote:

Who Are We?

We are people working for solidarity, self-determination, human rights, justice, peace, a healthy planet, and transformative social change. We are groups that question the status quo and the supremacy of global capitalism. We are a movement of many movements, organizing for the other world we know is possible.

The People’s Summit is being coordinated by a committee made up of members of non governmental and civil society organizations, as well as non-affiliated peoples. Currently, membership consists of representatives from the Canadian Federation of Students, Canadian Labour Congress, the Canadian Peace Alliance, Council of Canadians,  CUPE Ontario, Greenpeace Canada, Ontario Council for International Cooperation, Oxfam Canada,  Polaris Institute, the Rainforest Action Network, the Sierra Youth Coalition, the Toronto Climate Campaign, and the Toronto Community Mobilization Network. We encourage a diversity of voices to contribute to the vision of the People’s Summit, and welcome your ideas and participation. Contact us at [email protected] to get involved!

You are taking it upon yourself to say which protests people should attend?  Did you inherit that right? As I said above the organizers of the Peoples Summit include the people organizing this particular event.  Why are you saying don't attend?  What is your motivation in targeting this event and not all the other events and marches scheduled?  WTF

Or are you saying that no one should go to any marches at all and they should all restrict themselves to the campus grounds and the People's Summit lectures?  

Look.

If I gave the impression that everyone who is violent at a protest is an organizer, or that all of the organizers engage in structural violence or property damage, then I have been misunderstood.

I don't want to get into specifics, because you have already stated your intention of turning people in to the police, but I can tell you for a fact people who are organizing against the G20, and who do endless good works, have also participated in Black Bloc actions. In Vancouver the Black Bloc demonstrators did indeed provide security for FN elders. They did security all night, every night at the tent city. This is just fact. You might not like it, but that doesn't change things.

Not being willing to differentiate between protestors who practice targeted destruction of property and those who throw rocks at cops (who, more often than not, have turned out to be cops themselves!) puts you on par with the non-thinking public who are willing to lump in the non-violent majority with the window smashing minority. You have to look beyond the National Pest's portrayal of what goes on.

If you think that the message of non-violent protesters would be heard any better if a few Starbucks were left with their windows intact, I would have to disagree with you.

I, personally, do not practice violence. I believe strongly in direct action. I believe in standing up against the injustices at home and abroad, towards the marginalized and oppressed. I believe in standing up and not being intimidated by the insane militarization of our city. I believe in inviting one and all who oppose the G20 to make their voices heard. I believe in inclucivity. I believe in debate and respect for a diversity of tactics. And for this you say I am not your friend?

Who do you think is hurting the movement more.

I'll conceed that there are people who hide their faces for very good reasons.  Someone only needs to look at the church of sciontology and the amount of harassment they are responsible for.

Let me try and make my point clear.

Causing violence and destruction have no place at the G8\20 as far as I'm concerned.  It's useless. It doesn't help anything. Destroying a bankmachine doesn't send a message to the world bank. It makes people get charged $1.50 by using the bankmachine a few blocks over that's not their bank. Or they just have farther to walk.

Smashing windows and breaking cars and stuff? Again useless. What message does it send?  I'll tell you what it does. It causes the media to zoom in on them and ignore the rest of us who actually have something to say.

I heard a good quote once in reply to someone saying ideas are impossible to kill.

"No they're not. Just make the idea popular with idiots"  It's so true.  Whats one of the reasons why more people aren't involved with the protests? They don't want to be associated with the bullshit they see on TV. I've spoken with people and got a positive response and a lot of interested from people. All they read about and see regarding the summit is protestors clashing with police.

All I'm saying with my comments is that yes I have no problem "ratting out" the people using violence making the protest about them. Drawing attention away from the real issues. You think any of the world leaders are gonna even get a wiff of the protests and violence? Not a chance. 

Like I said, would you call the cops if you saw someone smashing a car or breaking windows or spray painting someones house or business tomorrow morning?  How about if someone was doing it to you, would you want someone to call the police? Or would you let it slide because they are expressing themselves?  Maybe they don't like Ford so their taking it out on your new Focus.

There are hardcore professional "rioters" the same you find at soccer games int he UK and such.  These aren't the people that want to protect native american elders. I'm sure there are some protector people out there but the people I'm talking about aren't it. They just want to cause shit, I have no sympathy for them and hope they all get arrested. If that makes me a big bad girl here with no friends then that's fine.

I'm ready to pull my fucking hair out dealing with people (with my org) who seem to care more about fucking around and causing shit than planning, fact checking getting audio equipment. Can you imagine how much over time is being paid out to the cops? They probably want riots more than anyone, and their laughing about it. Oh I think I hurt my back, I better go on a month paid vacation so I get better.

I simply can't agree. There is no reason for "targeted destruction".  You're hurting people for nothing. You might think it's sending a message but it's not.  Have fun ruining peoples shit.

I have been marching since before the Black Bloc against globalization summits.  It is bullshit to say that the Black Bloc stopped the participation.  In 1997 the Black Bloc did nothing but the protesters who tried to block a caravan including Butcher of East Timor.  The peaceful demonstrators were pepper sprayed and beaten and arrested. Police violence occurs anyways.

But go ahead rewrite history and blame the groups who have arisen in the last ten years in reaction to the police violence. I think people don't protest because they like their nice comfortable lives that our association with the imperial empire gives us.  We used to get 10's of thousands to peace rallies in the late 80's now the Sun Fun Run gets the largest crowds.  It took many years but Canadians have gotten the individualistic message very well. The Black Bloc arose as a response to police violence the police violence came first.  Canadians know that they can have no effect on their government so they put their heads down and they try not to rock the boat.  Head down and ass up is the best individual response to a totalitarian state if your personal safety is your driving concern.  So stick your head in the sand a little further and keep spreading the myth that the Black Bloc caused the violence not the police.

If there was a fire at your neighbours home would you break the windows to wake them up?  

The following quote tells me you have no concept of solidarity or working with others in a group. What gives you the right to attack not only the Black Bloc but also your coworkers trying to organize events.  I guess the movement should just make you the Supreme Leader and listen to only your voice. Oh exalted one who knows better than all others involved what should we do next that meets with your standards?

Quote:

'm ready to pull my fucking hair out dealing with people (with my org) who seem to care more about fucking around and causing shit than planning, fact checking getting audio equipment. Can you imagine how much over time is being paid out to the cops?

G8/G20 Communiqué: Warriors for peace - RISE UP!       

By Krystalline Kraus | June 8, 2010 | www.rabble.ca

http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/statica/2010/06/g8g20-communiqu%C3%A9-warriors-peace-rise

There is a difference in motivation between a community rising up like a pride of lions to defend itself and the kind of acting-out activism of "you've hurt me so now I'm going to hurt you back!".

SparkyOne wrote:

Quote:

We invite everyone to join us with their own signs and placards. And your own cameras and recorders. On a walk through the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The G20's policies impact our communities everywhere - our resistance is also everywhere.

 

NOTE: Speakers at this event include people who have faced police intimidation and violence, organizers from the summit legal project and community organizers.

 

I have a hard time seeing the point of this. I'm really thinking twice about attending. Any sort of civilized protest or speakers speaking will be drown out by the violent assholes there who get off on fighting with the police. The police will turn around and use that as an excuse to go after EVERYONE. Do you think the media really cares what we think or what we're saying? All they care about is videotaping some punks smashing windows or clashes with the police.

We need a group of volunteers who will go around and unmask all these people take pictures of them commiting crimes and give that to police. Maybe then the rest of us will be able to actually reach people with our message and not be backround noise.

Just got back from this event.

It was a press conference. About a dozen activists and community organizers were met by over a hundred police officers on horseback, bicycle, armed with autmoatic weapons. They had a bus full of cops parked around the corner. Snipers were on the roof. The speakers at the press conference spoke about police intimidation and brutality. They spoke of the visits by CSIS and the insane militarization of our city at ludicrous expense. The representative from 52 division claimed that the police presence was not a display of force and that they were graciously "allowing protesters to voice their opinion". Thanks officer.

Polunatic2 wrote:

Quote:

All SOAR events celebrate a diversity of tactics, meaning that we support all the many different ways that people choose to resist our common enemies. We will not condemn or attempt to prevent or control actions being taken by others, and will vigorously resist state repression against anyone. That said, respect for diversity of tactics also means not smashing things while we're part of the labour child-friendly march, and remembering that although we might think certain tactics are pointless/annoying, we should not needlessly antagonize those people.

Wink, wink, nod, nod. "Pointless. Annoying. Tired. Don't  needlessly antagonize "allies"? Where's the respect for "diversity of tactics"? Or does it only cut one way. You don't want people to criticize your choice of tactics but you seem quite prepared to publicly shit on the organizers and participants of other events because they're not "militant" enough for you. And who decides what is "needless"?

I agree that this communique from SOAR chose some poor language to express this point. But it appears that you are deliberately missing the point. A lot of public talk about respecting diversity of tactics has been in response to attacks from prominent activists against the black bloc tactics in Vancouver, and from individual such as Sparky (above) and adharden (on another thread) who would try and limit who is allowed to express themselves and how. The point that SOAR is making is that while they may not agree with other tactics, they will make no attempt to interfere with them or publically criticize them.

SparkyOne, I'd like to respond to this latest post, but can you let us know where your quotes about the black bloc came from?

What respect for a diversity of tactics means to me is that you don't publicly condemn, attack, disrupt, or sic cops on allied groups and individuals who choose to employ tactics that differ from one's own. That doesn't mean we can't challenge and criticize each other's strategies and tactics (or lack thereof). It doesn't ask that you pretend to agree with everyone; just that you respect that not everyone will choose to do the same thing... and that's ok.

Sounds like they won't be using the vehicle version of the (ultrasonic ) sound cannon which is more dangerous than the hand held (sonic) chirpping device ..so that is good news.

double post edit

Here is the view of the TCMN on Solidarity and Respect.  I agree with these principles which is why I reacted to that suggestion that people should assist in law enforcement actions against other protesters.

As for Soar I think that it is axiomatic that if you are in a small group of 3 to 10 you can better look after each other and make sure no one falls victim to police violence without others beside them to at least bear witness.  That is what Soar is promoting.  An expanded version of the buddy system but with the people in the affinity group being in tune and able to make decisions quickly as to how the police have escalated any situation and whether given the comfort level of the group they should withdraw from the police violence or confront it. 

[quote]

It is with this in mind that we espouse the following principles (taken from the St. Paul principles). These principles are an attempt to outline a working process for us together as organizers:

1. Our solidarity is based on respect for a political diversity within the struggle for social-justice. As individuals and groups we may choose to engage in a diversity of tactics and plans of action but are committed to treating each other with respect;

2. We realize that debates and honest criticisms are necessary for political clarification and growth in our movements. But we also realize that our detractors will work to divide us by inflaming and magnifying our tactical, strategic, personal and political disagreements. For the purposes of political clarity, and mutual respect, we will speak to our own political motivations and tactical choices and allow other groups and individuals to speak on their own behalf. We reject all forms of violence-baiting, red-baiting and fear-mongering; and efforts to foster unnecessary divisions among our movements;

3. As we plan our actions and tactics, we will take care to maintain appropriate separations of time and space between divergent tactics. We will commit to respecting each other’s organizing space and the tone and tactics they wish to utilize in that space. We will commit to clearly communicating our choices of tactics wherever possible;

4. We oppose any state repression of dissent, including surveillance, infiltration, disruption and violence. We agree not to assist law enforcement actions against activists and others. We oppose proposals designed to cage protests into high-restricted “free speech” zones, and we will support all those arrested; and

5. We will work to promote a sense of respect for our shared community, our neighbours and particularly poor, working people, immigrants and others marginalized in our society and their personal property. We also will work to promote a sense of respect for Indigenous peoples and the land we are organizing on.

An injury to one is an injury to all! 

Sounds like you get to have your march and clear out before they do anything that you need to wag your fingers at.  And who the fuck made this your protest?  Is there a central registry I should sign in with so as to make sure I don't disrupt your official protest.  It seems to me that everyone is protesting on the same day at the same location.  

If you want to be like the activists on the Rachel Corrie fine but it seems some want to be like the activists on the Mavi Marmara.  As long as they wait until the people who just want to march clear away from the areas they intend to protest differently at then I don't see the problem.  Even in Vancouver when they trashed the Bay the protesters made sure no other protesters would be endangered by their acts.  I am not sure of the bogeyman being raised here. If various groups do an end around to block traffic and disrupt officials it is their right and it does not affect you right to march with a sign saying whatever it is you want.  If those groups fight back instead of just being arrested then I think the police will punish them enough without them having to hear lectures from official protesters with their university or union credentials.

The People First rally remains a "green-zone", inclusive, "family-friendly" event; which I hope also means inclusive towards SOAR participation. Should they be disallowed from even participating because of the affiliation? If they're respecting the tone and safety-level during the rally, I don't see the problem. Yes, the language of the callouts is a little derisive, but respect for diversity of tactics is difficult on all sides -- it's to be expected that a group like SOAR would be frustrated by "protests" that reinforce the authority of the police and the state -- and they are doing a far better job than respecting DOT than, say, our Volunteer Sheriff Snitch above.

Polunatic2 wrote:

It's not "my" protest nor do I have a university degree or any official union position other than workplace steward. There was an agreement three months ago that the rally/march would be a "green zone", inclusive, "family-friendly" action.

My real motivation? I don't like to see people get hurt or even killed exercising their democratic rights like at this demonstration I attended in 1987. 

Good luck debating with Kropt. He'll just meander away when he can't twist your words around anymore or take your post out of context.

Rioters causing damage is apparently a myth.

I'm trying my damndest to avoid members of my organization from causing violence and intentionally instigating security so that makes me trying to control everything and be the supreme queen of everything lol