Sorry for the unpleasant surprise, remind. On my machine, if I hover over a link it shows me what it's pointing to.
I do try and read across the spectrum to see what people are saying, though. And, I agree with you that the Conservatives are keen to find ways to smack the NDP these days, which is one of the reasons Steve Janke started writing his blog again, after 6 months away, I believe. Anyways, it's worth noting that others read Babble besides us.
For those who don't have facebook (it would not let me past in above post - sorry for the double):
The Board of the Canadian Muslim Union has just released the following statement:
The Canadian Muslim Union is appalled at the criticism Ms. Davies has been subjected to over her statement on Israel. While she is wrong about it being the longest occupation (Canada's occupation of First Nations territory is just one example of a longer one), it is certainly the longest one maintained by force of arms.
We believe that Israel's right to exist must be tied to its acceptance of international law and human rights standards. Its right to secure borders must be tied to its willingness to respect the borders of other nations. So long as Israel denies Palestinians the right of return and reparations for property stolen from them when Israel broke away from Palestine, so long as it occupies and builds settlements on Palestinian lands, and so long as it violates the borders of other lands with impunity, it must be viewed as a rogue state.
Moreover, so long as Israel does these thing while denying equal rights to all of its citizens and banning political parties that don't support its apartheid laws, Canada should not maintain economic and cultural ties with it. When it goes further and engages in piracy to support an illegal blockade, Canada should take strong diplomatic measures.
The Canadian Muslim Union supports Libby Davies' statement and calls on the NDP to stand behind her, rather than kowtow to the Zionist lobby.
RE:Seeing as you are now speaking for Katz, maybe you can explain to me what happened in 1948 that justifies what happened in 67. since that seems maybe to be what you are getting at?
I probably should not post when I'm feeling sick. Katz emphasis on dates points to a belief on his part that there is something in the past which makes what is bad and unacceptable seem good and acceptable. In my opinion, nothing that happened in the past can justify the murder of innocent women and children and kicking children out of their homes and implimenting policies designed to slowly starve children to death. However, I have to admit that the past is being used to justify unjustifiable present actions because it blinds those who are committing the attrocities that they are doing something really wrong. In other words, the Israeli government is using the same sort of faulty logic as a Marc Lepine or an Adolf Hitler. Katz focing on dates may not be completely embracing this form of faulty logic, but he is giving it an affectionate pat.
I get the feeling that this is also the way Libby D thinks. She sees people being kicked out of their homes and children starving and getting sick from drinking unsafe water (the same issues which motivate her in her home riding) and she wants to do something about it.
Whatever you think of Israel existing (and people do vary in this), their attempts to expand their boundaries is just plain wrong and the new settlements are a sign that Israel doesn't really want a two state solution but would prefer to snuff the Palestinians out. There is a new flotilla bringing aid to Gaza manned by German Jews - the descendants of holocaust survivors. I wonder how they will be treated.
RE Upserge in polls - I guess that justice and human rights trumps social conservatism or Trudeau-mania, as it should.
RE Imagine - I think that El-Farouk Khaki could fill her in. That said, even the most socially conservative Muslims in Canada are starting to realise that the likes of Davies and Khaki are their friends - and that their cousins having shelter, food and clean water trumps any lingering thoughts of homophobia.
Oh, this just in from the CMU (their facebook pages is more active than their webpage-wall):
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4049373291#!/topic.php?uid=4049373...
Just noticed that Khaki is using a picture of Libby Davies when he posts on facebook.
It all sounds good and then they ruin the whole press release with a gratuitous reference to "the Zionist lobby" which will cause everything else they say to be ridiculed and not taken seriously - sad.
Thank you, vaudree. Excellent statement. The NDP would be well advised to reflect on who their better allies are - those whose sentiments are expressed in that statement, or the Canada Israel Committee, Canadian Jewish Congress, and Friends of Simon Wiesenthal. It's an important choice to make, and it's not just about foreign policy. It's about freedom of speech and dissent within Canada.
"I agree with you that the Conservatives are keen to find ways to smack the NDP these days,"
I'm flattered and i take that as a very good sign!
Jewish Group Condemns "Feeding Frenzy" Surrounding Libby Davies
16 June, 2010
Independent Jewish Voices - Canada condemns what it calls a "feeding frenzy" around NDP Member of Parliament Libby Davies.
"What's next?"asked IJV-C spokesperson Larry Haiven. "Will Canadian politicians have to take a loyalty oath to the State of Israel in order to hold office? The feeding frenzy is outrageous. Libby Davies is one the bravest and most honest politicians in Canada. She has done more for a just peace between Israelis and Palestinians than any other Canadian politician. "
Members of the Conservative, Liberal and even her own New Democratic Party have rushed to denounce Davies as "anti-Israel" for remarks she made on video to an internet journalist and some have called for her to be expelled from her caucus. Ms. Davies has apologized for and clarified some of her remarks but the hysteria continues. "In fact the story is no longer what Libby Davis said but the mania surrounding it," said Haiven, "It is a distraction from more pressing issues like the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla."
"The central remark causing the uproar was that Israel had been occupying Palestinian territory since 1948. This is factually correct. In the 1948 Israeli War of Independence (known to the Palestinians as the ‘Nakba') more than 750,000 Palestinians were forced to leave what later became the State of Israel. They have never been allowed to return. Much of the land that these people left had been designated by the United Nations Partition Plan of 1947 as Palestinian territory," Haiven explained.
But pointing out this fact is not tantamount to denying Israel's right to exist. Says Haiven, "Historians (including Israeli scholars like Benny Morris), governments and individuals all over the world acknowledge that Israel seized Palestinian territory in 1948 (and again in 1967) and expelled the Palestinian residents. Nevertheless, the prevailing consensus is that Israel has the right to exist within the territory it was occupying at the end of its War of Independence (the so-called ‘Green Line'.) Even the PLO has conceded this point."
"We condemn all those who would pillory Ms. Davies," said Haiven, "But we are particularly disappointed with NDP leader Jack Layton and NDP MP Thomas Mulcair. The NDP should stop this nonsense and address the underlying issues that are at the root of the continuing crisis in Israel and Palestine."
Independent Jewish Voices - Canada is a national organization whose mandate is to promote a just resolution to the conflict in Israel and Palestine through the application of international law and respect for the human rights of all parties. IJV has chapters in Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatoon and Vancouver plus many individual members.
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Larry Haiven, Spokesperson, Independent Jewish Voices Canada
http://ijvcanada.org/uncategorized/jewish-group-condemns-%E2%80%9Cfeedin...
Thank you, vaudree. Excellent statement. The NDP would be well advised to reflect on who their better allies are - those whose sentiments are expressed in that statement, or the Canada Israel Committee, Canadian Jewish Congress, and Friends of Simon Wiesenthal. It's an important choice to make, and it's not just about foreign policy.
Your wish is already granted- none of those listed are seen as potential allies. The NDP has at times, and may still be, reaching out to the Canadian Muslim Union. Though I would question if they are potential allies for anything except around Middle East issues.
What we dont like about the NDPs stand, look to 2 things:
- The NDP has within it MPs with varying degrees of personal "nuanced" support for Israel. [IE, well beyond boilerplate right to exist, security of citizens, etc.]
- To the degree there is pandering, it is to the broad support Israel enjoys among Canadians. [Which as qualified as that may be and becoming more so, would definitely dislike the kind of talk around here and which squirted out inadvertently in Libby's remarks gone viral.] Its not about posturing for the Jewish votes, and I think you know that full well. But raising the bogeymen of CJC and Simon Wiesenthal is sexier than just criticising pandering.
So, the NDP's support for Israel is not its fault - it's the fault of some individual MPs, and of Canadians who broadly support Israel. Leaves us with little choice, then, but to follow along. Not our fault. We'd like to do the right thing. Just can't. And if Mulcair publicly condemns and humiliates any MP who steps out of line, we can't demand that he be rebuked. Imagine how confusing that would be for the pro-Israeli Canadian public? They really wouldn't know what to think of us.
The irony is that none of this shameless pandering will ever stop our enemies from seizing on anything, or nothing at all, to call the NDP anti-semitic, pro-Hamas, pro-jihad, pro-Taliban, you name it. The shame is in adjusting one's policies in fear of those smears.
I think that people overestimate just how much "broad support" Israel enjoys among Canadians. I think most Canadians have very ambiguous views on the middle east and are far less "pro-Israel" than the Tories would have anyone believe.
Closing for length. Please feel free to open part 4.
