How have you dealt with the spectre or reality of sexual harassment at work?

Yiwah wrote:

I was having a discussion with a friend the other day, in the context of the extreme heat we're experiencing right now.  We were annoyed that despite this heat, we didn't feel comfortable going to work in anything that might be too 'revealing' even though that means suffering in a conservative suit. 

Yes, there are ways you can grieve sexual harrasment after the fact, and we all know it shouldn't happen in the first place...but it does, and most women I know are very aware of the ways in which we are judged depending on how we dress or how 'friendly' we are at work.  Anyone who has experienced the less than satisfying process of making a sexual harrasment complaint is probably unlikely to want a repeat, but it is nonethless infuriating that you have to find ways to 'avoid' having it become an issue. 

How have you dealt with this?  Do you find yourself moderating your behaviour at work in ways that you don't agree with ideologically?  How has the context altered your approach (ie, unionised versus non, large company versus small, etc)?

In none of the workplaces I've ever worked at have I ever been a victim or instigator or witness of sexual harassment. In fact, I've never even heard of any case of it in my workplace.

With that in mind, If I worked in a smutty workplace, why would I want to stay there when probably 99% of people do not engage in it.

RevolutionPlease wrote:

Usually, it's not "smutty", it's covert and it goes on all around you.  Open your eyes.  99% is a Gretzky fallacy.  I should wiki that.  :)

 

eta: I heard stargazer's call in the religion thread.

Then I've been very lucky in all my career so far. Unless of course the instigators in my workplace are cautious about others like myself not being there, and the victims not speaking out?

yeah yiwah i can see what you mean...that kind of thing just isn't cool.  how some people can act like that, making rude comments and expecting everyone to just go along really pisses me off.  

I remember one time at work, the UPS delivery guy, who happens to be Ojibway, was leaving and this guy got out of the elevator, who i didn't know, and said some racist comment, i can't remember what it was but my reaction was like "dude, that is totally racist!  why would you say something like that to someone you don't even know!" and he was just stunned like no one had ever called him on it before and he just walked away flabbergasted..or mad at me for calling him a racist...

however in my case, i'm self employed so i didn't have to worry about getting fired.  Much trickier in a small workplace.  The only thing i can think of is to get someone you do respect to confront the person...you know like a "i overheard that comment you made about so and so.  You know that kind of thing can really hurt someone, and besides it's totally unprofessional to do that at work of all places, cool it down will ya?"

other than that, how much do you like that job if that kind thing happens there?  Is the money worth it?  or would you be happier working someplace else or for yourself?

See how fucked up us guys can be on this issue?

Yiwah, thanks for starting this. I'm actively reading. I would post, too, but I don't know where to begin. Suffice to say I've experienced it, in many forms. With no existing structure to turn to for relief, and no written policy to guide me as to acceptable behaviour in the workplace. My worst experiences were in small "progressive" environments. I was in my 20s during the worst of Robert Bly's men's movement. Not good timing.

I once had a job fixing the laminate (a bad original glueing job) on a bunch of desks and cabinets in an area staffed with females only.  At one point, while I was crawling around underneath a desk, the supervisor walked into the room and said, "That's what I like to see, a man on his knees under my desk."

I suppose I should have complained, but I didn't do anything.

Although yiwah, it might be connected.  Perhaps now, some women feel obligated to or enjoy being racist and sexist to the extreme at work, like your example of the women degrading other women at work, or the man on his knees remark.  I have for sure witnessed a few examples of women saying things that if a man said would make my skin crawl.  It could be an attempt to avoid being ostracized for not going along with the general high school  boys club atmosphere in most workplaces?

c'mon we all know women can be mean too, whether it's racism, sexism or whatever.  

I was just responding to Yiwah's comment : "How do you deal, for example, with women who denigrate other women for not being okay with certain sexist behaviours in the workplace? "

(deleted)

and again no explanation.  It leaves me thinking you have no problem with racism/sexism unless it's the kind that directly affects you personally.  I'd like if you could clarify why you are so aghast at my posts, i just want to know where you're coming from or what you mean.

milo204, there are resources out there. If you are serious about wanting to see the world from an informed feminist perspective, please do your own work. At this point, you are coming across as hostile, arrogant, ignorant and coercive – whether you intend to or not – and you are derailing an important discussion.

Hi milo204, you are disrupting the discussions in the  feminism forum right now, both in this thread and the "Don't rape" thread. Furthermore, demanding that babble's feminists explain feminsm to you while they are trying to have a conversation is a bit rich. I'm going to ask that you stay out of the feminism forum for the time being. I'd be happy to help you clear some things up via PM if you like. Sometimes we men just have to check our egos at the door to the feminism forum. Actually, it's best to do it most of the time. It's certainly how I've done a lot of my learning and growing when it comes to feminism, among other things.

I've dealt with sexual harrassment in the workplace in a few instances. 

The garden-variety commenting in the guise of joking - because if you object to joking, you're just being bitchy, right? - is one that I encountered the most.  I learned to turn it around, to embarrass the commenter, an the louder the better.  When they protest, you can also say you're joking and ask them why they don't have a sense of humour.  It's fairly effective on equals and middle managers.  I know that not all women are up for this, but I'm mouthy and combative by nature and it has worked for me.  By the end of my five years in civil service, the little men (it takes a small mind to be a harrasser) were terrified of me.

I was harrassed by a manager once, took it to HR and it was dealt with to my satisfaction. 

My theory is that it can't be dealt with passively.  I don't mean you have to be aggressive, but most of the time if you call them on it assertively, they stop.  You've shown yourself not to be an easy enough target.  That said, though, anybody puts their hands on me, they get an elbow to the nose.

Writer: thanks for that, it was wonderful. The only way of improving it would have been if her messages had been bidding "spencer" farewell when they tossed his ass out on the street.

I'm tired as well of being treated like a piece of meat at work.  I mean for god sakes I'm not the cuddle boy every time the building AC is set to shiver.

Ack. Killjoy alert: Gawker says it's a hoax...