Guns and Ammo Forum: Part Two

A little...

Unionist wrote:

[i]"... and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."[/i]

O.k. I can buy that.

Pity the lack of appreciation for things that go boom boom.

Unionist wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Unionist. You are trolling this forum. The Guns and Ammo Forum is for discussing guns and ammo from a pro-guns and ammo point of view.

Cue, I defy you to find any other poster in this forum that has openly expressed as much sexual gratification from the look, feel, smell, and use of firearms as I.

How much more pro-gun-and-ammo does a dude have to be to pass [s]musket[/s] muster here!?

Happiness is a warm gun.

Boom Boom wrote:

Babble is still the best forum for political discussion I know of, but lately it's changed. I find it amazing that WTC conspiracy threads and a Guns and Ammo forum are tolerated here, so, for that reason alone, I'm leaving. It's been a ride.

Dear Boom Boom, I wouldn't take what most of us post on this thread too seriously.

Boom Boom, please, I agree with you, I understand, but please see these threads for the ugly farce that they are. Make merciless fun of the gun-loverz. It's the one thing they can't tolerate. I need your wit and wisdom here. Stick around.

I thought Cue's remark was tongue-in-cheek anyway, Boom Boom. We don't, e.g., HAVE a guns 'n ammo forum. We have one thread - this one - on the topic. So, uh, blast away. You'll hit something eveytually. lol.

And just for me personally, I like to keep it even if I figure the most likely use of it is on myself.

Don't ride off into the sunset just yet Boom Boom.

The first thread, which began four months ago, was clearly intended to be sarcastic, in the classic Cueball style we have all come to love.

It morphed into less-sarcasm more "rural folks (men and women) sharing their gun experiences growing up". For many reasons this isn't my cup of tea (which is why I didn't contribute until a few days ago with the Chris Rock link). "$5,000 a bullet" Hahaha.

And I agree in principle with Boomster that what the topic has become may not be entirely suited to a progressive forum. But many of the more (can I use this word in a guns and ammo thread?) social topics sometimes aren't particularly progressive and are merely informative, sharing, and sometimes fun and friendly threads. Like Catchfire's lost cat, or the TV thread, or the many "what are you listening to now?" threads. Every thread isn't about the NDP. Phew.

The ending of the last G 'n A thread, and the fact that Webgear, clearly very knowledgeable about both guns and ammo, started the new one, and he also speaks to the topic in a straight non-sarcastic manner, has shifted the landscape.

I of course am someone that many of the rural folks here may rail against. I've lived in large cities my whole life (bigcitygal was a significant nickname for me for many reasons, that's one of them.  ), I've never touched a gun, and to me they represent worlds I have no part in, specifically the world of the armed agents of the state who I would love to see with less firepower. While I "get" that rural folks use them for hunting, I've never had to acquire food in such a manner. 

No, babble is not the place to have a "fun" discussion about guns and/or ammo and/or other ways to kill people (skillfully or otherwise). But I can't dictate that babblers must only post here in a sarcastic way (oh to have such powers, indeed.  ).

Boom Boom, I hope you're still around. This thread will bump lower down on TAT if you, and everyone who's irritated by it, stops posting to it. 

Cueball, something was clearly going on for you to have a good vent, at the time, in starting that thread. How's about you let us know about that? If you can recall.

To state the obvious, babble is not going to have a forum on guns and ammo. 

I thought the original thread was fun, and I played into it.  The second thread may have been overkill, so to speak, but whatever.

This paragraph gives me pause.

Maysie:

"I of course am someone that many of the rural folks here may rail against. I've lived in large cities my whole life (bigcitygal was a significant nickname for me for many reasons, that's one of them.  ), I've never touched a gun, and to me they represent worlds I have no part in, specifically the world of the armed agents of the state who I would love to see with less firepower. While I "get" that rural folks use them for hunting, I've never had to acquire food in such a manner."

There's no "getting" here.  Lived experiences, different cultures, and all that within an hour of most of those big cities.  So while babble certainly doens't need, and definitely won't be getting, a guns and ammo section... it'd be pleasent to have some of our most overtly progessive babblers stop generalizing and personally attacking (or making fun of, if you like the phraseology better) those of us who happen who exist in a different cultural landscape.  

SJ, sure middle class privilege gives me that. But more people are killed and injured by police than by so-called "gang violence" in the cities. The state doesn't care about Black on Black violence.

Farmpunk, I hope that you or anyone who has experienced me generalizing, personally attacking or making fun of people who live in rural areas would let me know. 

What gives you pause about what I wrote?

Maysie wrote:

SJ, sure middle class privilege gives me that. But more people are killed and injured by police than by so-called "gang violence" in the cities. The state doesn't care about Black on Black violence.

Certainly.  I was referring to density of population, not the urban/rural realities.

Why would we want to do that Cueball?

Might have to refer to the anti-oppression 101 drawing board on that one, because I liiiiike it.  It's so wrong.

Hey! This is the pro-Guns and Ammo Forum. It's a forum that will not tollerate any geographic or demographic bigotry of any kind whatsoever. Whoever has guns and ammo (don't forget the last part its very important) , be they city slickers or local yokels they can talk em up.

If you rural folks want to talk up Rural People Issues, from a pro-Rural People point of view, start your own Rural People forum.

RevolutionPlease wrote:

Besides, considering I don't recognize even one female poster yet......

I haven't been posting but I have been reading because truthfully the topic of guns and thinking about guns has been occurring on a regular basis in my life right now and I've been back and forth on my own feelings on the topic. 

Why?  Cause of critters and dealing with what appears to be a major issue where I live right now. It's a major topic of conversation that comes up pretty much where ever I go right now including the progressive circles.   Farmpunks post speaks to that somewhat in terms of cultural differences and different lived experiences. 

 So here it's completely normal to go to an environmental group meeting with some of the most progressive activists in the area and in the social part of the meeting have  conversation about the seed saving and local food growing project  a bunch of people are working lead into a conversation about guns vs trapping vs other deterrents when the subject of dealing with the growing coyote problem comes up. It's just matter of fact.  It totally normal and a very common that when I talk about the problems I'm having for people to ask if I have a blah blah type of  gun.  I'm pretty clueless to what they are talking about but I'm picking bits an pieces of the technical stuff up just by listening.    When I say I don't have one,  it's been common for people to offer to come and help if necessary.  These are the same types of people in terms of the types of progressive activism issues that I worked with when I lived in the city.  The absolute majority of every farmer I've met so far which I would deem as 'progressive', organic, natural and those working on local food systems at least own some sort of gun and will use them as a last resort.   Having a gun here seems to be just a matter of fact part of life and it's not a matter of fitting into some sort of pro-gun(I love guns. Wooyah) vs anti-gun binary type grouping.   The attitude I've met with (probably because I don't tend to hang around the woo gun hunting crowd) is that having a gun is a tool just like having a seeder or other farming, gardening implements.  

Same sort of conversations occur when I go to the local farm co-op to buy chicken feed. As some may know these place can be quite social buying visits (something that I've grown to love about living here) and shooting the s**t around the register counter or outside by someones truck is just daily life.  It's not just men either, the majority yes, but many women around here are just as knowledgeable about this subject as they are.  In fact I've found some women to be more knowledgeable in general about many things because it's quite common for women to be running the farms or the homesteads because many of the menfolk have jobs and are the part-timers when it comes to the 'farm' part of their lives.     

 I hear guns being used around my house quite a bit, especially during the various hunting seasons.  When duck season starts my morning coffee on the deck is peppered with blasts in the marshlands behind my house.    At first it was very unsettling but now I barely even notice except to register the distance they're at.    Now I even can tell the difference between the sound of various types of guns, something that if you told me I'd be able to do 5 years ago I'd laugh at it, yeah right.

 I know these threads have been a bit tongue and cheek as well as possibly a bit of button pushing from different sides of the issue.  I get that.   However I just felt I needed to add some comments, especially around the notion of gun talk or being okay with guns (pro-gun if you'd like) vs  being 'progressive' vs differences in culture' or as Farmpunk described it 'different lived experiences."  

To be quite frank if I was to decide to avoid, condemn gun talk or condemn even the notion of anything to do with guns where I live and use it as a determining factor of who in the community is 'progressive' and thus who I'd like to work or be social with I'd have a very small group of people to choose from.   That's just life where I currently live and I don't think it's that different in many other places.  

So will I join in the crowd and get a gun myself?  Probably not in the near future but to be honest it's something I have thought seriously about. Again if you'd talk to me 5 years ago my reply would be no way in heck, I wouldn't even have considered it.  

I am trying some other things before I go that route but the fact is that living here has changed my overall perspective on the issues around guns and my thoughts and opinions are  just not so cut and dry as they once were. 

Were there any 20th century left-wing revolutions that did not use guns and ammo?

ETA: I haven't fired a gun in 27 years. I'm not sure why the left would abjure them.

Farmpunk wrote:

In my experience, firearms and babble don't mix well.    

I agree. Unless sarcasm is a used a lot. I think that moment has passed.

Unionist wrote:

I fully support the right of people to use firearms in appropriate rural areas for subsistence and like needs. Always have.

I oppose personal [i]ownership[/i] (including buying, selling, transferring) of firearms, as I have outlined in detail on many occasions.

I oppose use, possession, or storage of firearms within a reasonable distance of any urban area...

With your apparent "support rural subsistence/oppose ownership" contradiction, your solution then would involve rent-a-rifle outlets? Urban dwellers who travel to the countryside to subsist, and there are more than a few of them I'd suggest, would have to similarly pick one up along the way? Drive thru windows? Whatcha hunting today buddy? Oh, you'll need to supersize that order.

Thanks, Eliza. We needed your input much earlier, but better late than never. That is the kind of straightforward, from the heart posting that enlightens without hurting.