WTC thread closed because a Babbler has been proven wrong?

I do enjoy circular arguments fought by people who are completely convinced of their expertise while constantly proving that they have none, I like to call it 'showing your ass', it can be amusing in a train wreck sort of way, as an aside, it was a terrible day when those airplanes knocked down those buildings.  Let the expert debate continue!

I think? I think the mods aren't following the conversation in 9/11 threads and merely keeping one eye open for direct insults and complaints in the queue.

What we have here, essentially, are a handful few anonymous babblers who are suggesting that widespread calls for a legitimate investigation be denied. What they really advocate in these threads, basically, is that justice be denied. And it follows by extension of their arguments - these "debunkers" of 9/11 "conspiracy theories" - that the US Military should continue to abduct people and detain them illegally and be condemned to what will probably be death sentences without ever facing their accusers in a legitimate trial taking place as the result of a legitimate criminal investigation. There are American citizens whose names are on lists marked for assassination by US Government death squads as a result of this "al-Qa'eda" terrorism bs. There are people whose basic rights have been and continue to be violated without a legitimate investigation and trial in to the events surrounding 9/11.

[color=red]Question for babble moderators:[/color]  Are basic human rights to legal representation and fair trial generally accepted points of view in babble discussion forums or not? Why not also allow anonymous posters to challenge same sex marriage rights and basic child rights as some sort of leftwing conspiracy to undermine the natural, Darwinian-conservative order of things while, and at the same time, allowing certain posters to mock justice and those rotting in torture gulags at the US Naval base at Guantanamo for having been found guilty by an American military inquisition? Where's the evidence? Because we know a certain few babblers frustrating and misleading other babblers in 9/11 threads have none, that's for god damned sure. Justice delayed is justice and basic human rights denied wrt 9/11. And let's not forget that several very real wars are being waged on democracy around the world as a direct result of the conspiracy to commit mass murder on 9/11. 9/11 is their raison d'etre for liquid war and rolling back civil liberties and labelling anyone who disagrees with the official US-Canadian Government flavour of Kool Aid as guilty of defamation and anything else short of unAmerican activities.  What's needed now is a criminal investigation not so unlike the Nuremberg trials at the end of  WW II. This colder war has to be stopped in its tracks and the inquisition challenged by every one everywhere before it's too late. We have no time for their court jesters between now and a possible outbreak of WW III.

Cueball wrote:

I personally really like the 9/11 threads. They are fun to drop in on once and a while, even though they are everything that Catchfire described them as. As well, there existence had notably reduced the number of Abdul Zia Al Haq, CIA, ISI, Pakistan/Afghanistan derailments of Afghanistan threads.

So how is the phony war on an invisible enemy(al-CIA'duh) in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq (and so on) going anyway? When do you think the CIA and NATO will stop aiding and abetting their proxies in Kabul from 1996 tp 2001, the Taliban?

I believe that Cathfire closed the threads because nothing new was happening. We were basically regurgitating past points by the time it got closed down. Since the whole point of these threads (for me) was to have a learning experience, I have no trouble with Cathfire's decision.

If no one's mind was swayed the first three or four times the information was presented, there is no reason to believe that a change of mind will occur on the seventh or eighth iteration.

The reason Catchfire closed the thread was this...

[QUOTE]

This thread is pointless. It is a personal attack factory, and there is aboslutely no headway being made in whatever rotting carcass which at one point or another resembled a debate. I'm closing this thread and calling a moratorium on 9/11 threads until further notice.All further 9/11 threads will be closed on impact.

And for the health of your ego, if you're reading this, please consider yourself the winner of the argument.

[/QUOTE]

If you want Maysie's and oldgoat's opinion, I concur, and I know Maysie has used words to describe these threads that you're not allowed to use in thread titles anymore.

Part of the established reasons for closing threads other than length, is that they have descended into toxicity and/or become pointless.  The 911 threads are routinely over-represented in the flagged post lists, and have become pointless.  I think the main combatants are so enmeshed in it all they've lost sight of this. Actually, I kind of take cueballs point that they bleed off a lot of stuff from other threads, and I'm glad cueball makes the choice to ignore threads he doesn't like.  I wish all babblers did that.  As a mods, we don't get to. 

Ya want my personal opinion? No?  Well here it is anyway.  Here we have the prospect raised of a conspiracy by the US government and related dark forces to destroy the WTC and murder thousands of people.  As a direct result of reading all these threads over the months and years, I have been moved to the position of no longer giving a shit.  That's what I personally have gotten out of reading these threads.

As you know I'm covering for Maysie for her two week vacation, so I'll be around the boards more again.  I was actually considering doing the same thing.

Oh, BTW, and for the record, I actually do love all you guys to bits as individuals, despite any minor headaches you've caused now and then, but there really is something about this subject that collectively brings out the worst and makes you scarier than the sum of your parts.

Also, when Catchfire talks about a moratorium, I don't think he means forever.  think of it as going to your neutral corners for a bit of a break between rounds.

This cartoon can't be posted too often...

Is ther an applause emoticon for Oldgoat's post?

I stay out of the 9/11 threads because I see little point in going round and round, although that same going  round and round hasn't left me not giving a shit about what really happened because I do care but I don't see it being resolved in any way by going round and round here on babble.  Even so I think others should have the opportunity to do so if they want to and I still look forward to Catchfire clarifying the "closed on impact".

I stay out of the 9/11 threads because my own theory, for which I find little support, is that it was caused by nano-termites.

[center][/center]

Fidel wrote:

I think? I think the mods aren't following the conversation in 9/11 threads and merely keeping one eye open for direct insults and complaints in the queue.

What we have here, essentially, are a handful few anonymous babblers who are suggesting that widespread calls for a legitimate investigation be denied. What they really advocate in these threads, basically, is that justice be denied.

No one, has ever, in any of those threads advocated this.  It is completely made up on your part.  That you continue to charactertise the argument this way does not somehow make it true after a certain number of repetitions.

Many people simply do not accept your, and Jas' assertions that you've proven anything.  A wider investigation?  Sure!  Why not?  There is absolute NO legitimate reason not to have them.  That's not even remotely the issue.

Yiwah wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Definitely. If people don't like them, they should just ignore them.

 

No one should ignore the abusive nature of certain comments simply because of the topic.

Cueball is obviously referring to the 9/11 threads as a whole, and he is quite correct.

My theory is this:

New York City has evolved a species of mutant ultra-termites that eat metal, sheet glass and all other modern construction materials.  They were having their annual awards banquet in the walls of the WTC at the moment the planes hit the towers and...well, you know the rest.

Makes as much sense as anything else.

And this will probably be the ONLY time I ever post in a WTC thread.

Here's my theory:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9aeNyk000

jas wrote:

I guess some of these later posts are why I feel it's important to disabuse some people of their patently false notions. That the gasping, gaping holes in the accepted collapse theory are so obvious as to be embarassing and insulting to our collective intelligence, and people, having been apprised of this, will still say, "Hmph. Conspiracy theorist." -- I mean, what is that?? Are you not able to read or something? Or think? Or understand how objects interact in our physical world? I don't get it. But I sure as hell won't put up with people defending and insisting on such an insultingly stupid explanation for what we all witnessed, directly or indirectly, on that day. That, to me, is offensive.

Consider for a moment that it is you that doesn't get it, that you don't understand the physical world, or that your understanding isn't enough to explain the very complicated interaction of nature and engineering that happened that day.  Maybe you are one of those lesser people and that is why you see conspiracies where there are none.  Could that at least be possible?  I think it is offensive to a lot of us that you dismiss what we all saw and what all of the evidence would lead most anyone to believe, no doubt about a thousand other things could have happened, but you have no proof of any kind, at least none that can't be refuted.  But you say no, despite what the majority of people believe, including the experts, it is us who are being duped and are seemingly too unintelligent to see it.  Ok, thats possible, but is it probable? Nope.

There will not be a legitimate investigation.

No. You don't get it. Wether or not the twin towers imploded, exploded, or collapsed, is completely irrelevant. Even if the allegations are true, no governements will fall, no military operations will cease, no change in the global order will take place. For one thing, establishing other means of destruction, other than by stresses caused by collision and fire, you still won't be able to prove any greater conspiracy.And even if you did, a few heads will roll and that is about it.

This debate is just chasing after a wild goose with a red herring in its beak.

double post

Unionist wrote:

The common thread in #1 and #2 is a complete absence of confidence that ordinary people can and will rise up and put an end to imperialism, aggression, and war. Hence, for example, the view that Afghanistan is a "phoney war".

Not all ordinary people are equal though are they?  Some rise up as you suggest, while others are consigned to assholedom.

Why did the towers fall straight down?   Well, they probably didn't.  But you have those 2 great forces of nature. Acceleration due to gravity (9.9 ms-2)   and accelaration due to lateral forces ( 0 ms-2) and a really really really really tall tall tall building.

Another minor force was  the wind rushing out as the offices flattened and then rushing back in again to fill the gap left behind as the building fell.  (It is minor but still  far far far far greater than 0 ms-2).  It is also complex and would need pretty fancy computer hardware and software to model it.   It might end up looking like something from the matrix if you played it in slo mo.

So even if it was falling out a little bit, it would hardly be noticable (no acceleration) and anyway it might get sucked back in again due to that vacuum effect.

They are discussing heat stress cracking  in metal beams in the cr4 engineering forum right now. So maybe, just maybe, the terrorists knew what they were trying to do?  And it is not as if they didn't try to blow it up before.    Didn't a taxi driver put a bomb in the basement previously?  And it went off too.

Another thing I find offensive is that those special explosives operatives of Bush who took down the 2 buildings were good! 

How did they get in and wire those buildings?   Cleaning staff at night!?

But even that doesn't work.  Because Bushes special guys are going to have white faces so how would they blend in? (Thats a half joke)

Imagine the questions and answers. "no Maam, these are special candles for celebrating the dow getting to 20,000 points later this year".  "They are wired so they all light up the building all at once and blink" "It is special RJ 37 cable so we can turn them on and off in sequence".

Then there is the story that the Jewish masters of the world blew it up for insurance.  With the help of their renegade Saudi buddies providing a coverstory?

The simplest theory is that planes hit the buildings, heat stressed metal reinforcement and 20 minutes or so later the buildings collapsed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP7Di7te5yM  to lighten the mood.

Slumberjack wrote:

Two wars which consumed countless lives, Vietnam and Iraq, were found to have been launched under false pretences by lying, swindling, mass murdering governments. Nothing has changed and no one has been held accountable.

So how many in all have actually been prosecuted for perpetrating 9/11? It seems they aren't even interested in bringing the real perps to justice. Who said that political conservatives seek closure in all matters? Because it's not true of bipartisan members of the same war party both sides of the Can-Am border. Political Liberals and Conservatives are all quite comfortable with ambiguity and long running general fog surrounding a number of facts wrt 9/11.

Well something did change by the late 1960's. The hippies were suddenly not the only ones protesting the war on democracy in VietNam. US conservativs didn't appreciate the fact that ordinary Americans were daring to join demonstrations in front of the Pentagon and White House, state department buildings etc. Nurses and iron workers and doctors and teachers marched in protest against the doctor and the madman's insane war on an idea in South East Asia, and generally where the bastards have returned to continue waging war on democracy ever since the the end of the VietNam war. Today's doctor and madman is every Republican and Liberal Democrat in US Government who votes for and supports liquid war while the CIA and US Military creates invisible enemies, like "Al- Qaeda" Advisors to Richard Nixon told him he would have to resign in order to avoid a possible civil war or worse in the US. Those were the days when US Governments were somewhat fearful of democracy.

The truth is that more than 900 engineers for 9/11 truth are not inexperienced hippies calling for an end to immoral war against desperately poor people in Pakistan. Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen etc. Lawyers and pilots and inteligence officers and firefighters for 9/11 truth are not going away either. These ordinary Americans and Canadians will continue standing arm in arm and reminding people that justice delayed is justice denied, and that phony wars continue as a result of the false flag operation in NYC on 9/11/01. They've been hiding truth about 9/11 from the world public for too long.