Inspired by [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-reactions/guns-and-ammo-forum-part-two#co... comment[/url]...
Kitchen sinks and dishwashers forum
Thu, 2010-08-05 11:24
#1
Kitchen sinks and dishwashers forum
Thu, 2010-08-05 11:29
#2
We are having a major coyote problem here as well and there is a debate about how best to deal with them.
You'll find all the information you need - and more - on that topic [url=http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/coyotes.asp]here[/url]. There are alternatives to coyoticide.
But that's not what, er, triggered this thread. This is:
If you are going to or need to kill an animal, using guns and ammo is the most humane way to do it. Unless every single person on rabble is vegetarian - why shouldn't a discussion on guns and ammo have a place here?
I've been reflecting a fair bit on this argument.
Unless every single person on babble tolerates - nay, enjoys - filthy dishes, why shouldn't a discussion on kitchen sinks and dishwashers (and perhaps washing fluids) have a place here?
NOTE: This is [b]NOT[/b] one of those "green environmental" discussions, although I would have no objection to the "phosphates or not" controversy, hard vs. soft water, etc. All I insist upon is that the discussion here be respectful, and be conducted from an unambiguously [b]pro-dishwashing perspective[/b].
Thanks, and let the debate begin!
Thu, 2010-08-05 11:41
#3
Catchfire
Well, I guess I've got to earn that four hours' pay.
Thu, 2010-08-05 11:45
#4
This is non-progressive BS. Dishes? Only a fascist will set a table, Unionist! Real leftists use their hands for their food and simply drink directly from the tap (no faucets either, imperialist decadence). Of course, you small, Canadian city progressives will never understand it. You fail all purity tests of progressivism. Indoor plumbing is terrorism of the Earth and we need to have stricter drain plug control laws, because god knows if you leave the plug in the bottom of the sink the sink could overflow and then get on the floor and then the floorboards could rot and then mould could get into your house fostered by the high humidity that comes from leaving the tap running for days on end in the summer (because that tap is only doing what it wants to do, who are you to tell it to go off? Eh, buddy?!). Sooner or later the whole rotten floor of the sink-faucet-water washing complex will collapse and you'll be standing right there. And then what? You expect the government to bail you out for your risky behaviour? NO! Deal with the consequences Tina Tap Turner.
etc., etc., sarcasm, etc.
eta:: @catchfire - my goal tonight is to make sure that rabble gives you some cherry overtime pay. 
Thu, 2010-08-05 11:49
#5
Maysie
Unionist: If you don't know by now that you cannot possibly dictate how a thread will go then I don't know if there will be help for you. And if you're suggesting drowning coyotes in sinks then I'm calling the Humane Society of Montreal right now.
Catchfire: Heatless beast indeed....harumph
Papal Bull I'm crushing on you big time right now. Thanks for the laughs.
For the record I'm pro-sinks of all kinds. If that makes me a bourgeois sell out, then so be it.
(less than 24 hours to go until my vacay, suckas! Bwa ha haaaaaaaa)
Thu, 2010-08-05 12:01
#6
All right, folks, this is [i]exactly[/i] the kind of discussion I had in mind! Many thanks.
And PB, I think you touched on my real motive for opening this thread. I was worried about getting plugged in the G&A forum... Safer here.
Hey... speaking of "PB" - isn't that something or other on the periodic table? [i]Are you a G&A spy!!??[/i]
Thu, 2010-08-05 12:12
#7
Interestingly I have been the only person in babble history to once destroy Rome, chemically, and then imbue one of its residents with ridiculous power, theologically.
But yeah, you've discovered my dark secret!
Thu, 2010-08-05 12:17
#8
N.Beltov
I've never had a dishwasher and never will. My hands do the job just fine thank you. Those who cook, cook. Those who don't, wash the dishes.
I get annoyed by those idiots/lazy louts who can't quite master the whole, "Wash First, Then Rinse" concept. Soap on dishes can make a person ill. Really ill.
I once had a roommate who solved the problem of his turn to do this dishes by buying, and eating, only food that could be prepared right in the package. His efforts to avoid work were ... unrelenting. And his room was a moonscape of almost empty beer bottles, many used as an ashtray, littering the floor like a nursery for aliens. The stench was palpable.
Never place a glass container in murky or soapy water and then forget about it. If you're like me, then you'll wind up with a geyser of blood, straight to the ceiling, and a lovely scar to show for your efforts. Ever see the ending of "Sanjuro" ?
Thu, 2010-08-05 12:21
#9
Maysie
My hands do the job just fine thank you.
N Beltov, please stick with the topic of the thread and keep your lewd personal habits to yourself. 
Ha ha! I pulled that quote out of context! Whatcha gonna do? Complain about me? Tee hee.
.
.
Ok, I need to get away from the computer immediately.
Thu, 2010-08-05 12:59
#10
N.Beltov
(washes hands furiously)
Thu, 2010-08-05 13:48
#11
bagkitty
[...] And if you're suggesting drowning coyotes in sinks then I'm calling the Humane Society of Montreal right now.[...]
I didn't realize they had minature coyotes in Montreal... I thought you would have had to use a bathtub to drown a coyote. On the other hand, skwerels should fit quite nicely into a kitchen sink... and if you have one of those automatic garbage grinding thingies installed.... *bagkitty indulges himself in one of those jaw cracking, ear to ear smiles*
*waves bye to Maysie... have a good holiday*
Thu, 2010-08-05 14:37
#12
Unless every single person on babble tolerates - nay, enjoys - filthy dishes, why shouldn't a discussion on kitchen sinks and dishwashers (and perhaps washing fluids) have a place here?
U? That is SOOOO last year....
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/environmental-justice/dirty-dishesdishwashingdishwashers
Thu, 2010-08-05 15:12
#13
Indoor plumbing is terrorism of the Earth and we need to have stricter drain plug control laws, because god knows if you leave the plug in the bottom of the sink the sink could overflow and then get on the floor and then the floorboards could rot and then mould could get into your house fostered by the high humidity that comes from leaving the tap running for days on end in the summer (because that tap is only doing what it wants to do, who are you to tell it to go off? Eh, buddy?!). Sooner or later the whole rotten floor of the sink-faucet-water washing complex will collapse and you'll be standing right there. And then what? You expect the government to bail you out for your risky behaviour? NO! Deal with the consequences Tina Tap Turner.
Y'know, PB, I was about to send you an invitation to help me with a few domestic ishews, but it appears you have already surveilled the place. 
As the main (ie: sole) cook and bottle-washer here, I regard this as a most serious topic. I don't know why Unionist thinks it's funny. He's probably an urban male with a dishwasher that works and who doesn't have to rinse out a gazillion catfood tins for recycling every night so the sink won't start to grow mould. And so forth.
There is a dishwasher here, but as I discovered shortly after I moved in, it is non-functional and needs to be lugged out (one of the ishews I mean to raise shortly with PB).
That didn't bother me much, though, since I actually have some china/pottery vanity, and I like to think that I wash things better than the machines do. Maybe I don't do it so often, but when I wash, those dishes are washed.
On some forums I know, this discussion would now turn to china/pottery finishes that wash up best -- ie: vitrified surfaces, which wash up as if they were glass (which they are), or how to get those tea stains out of your mother's bone china cups ...
Thu, 2010-08-05 17:30
#14
Unless every single person on babble tolerates - nay, enjoys - filthy dishes, why shouldn't a discussion on kitchen sinks and dishwashers (and perhaps washing fluids) have a place here?
U? That is SOOOO last year....
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/environmental-justice/dirty-dishesdishwashingdishwashers
LOL!!! You're right, I totally missed that!
But when I scan the posts, there's still a bit too much care for the environment in evidence. There's still room for a pure joy-of-washing thread, I think.
I'd like to hear some comments on the washing-for-subsistence and washing-for-sport phenomena. And perhaps, dishes for target practice.
Thu, 2010-08-05 17:45
#15
I just love being ignored. Most women do. It's the chopped-liver experience -- it has such deep sentimental significance to most of us, stretching back so far in each of our lives.
Thu, 2010-08-05 18:47
#16
As the main (ie: sole) cook and bottle-washer here, I regard this as a most serious topic. I don't know why Unionist thinks it's funny. He's probably an urban male with a dishwasher that works and who doesn't have to rinse out a gazillion catfood tins for recycling every night so the sink won't start to grow mould. And so forth.
We have a working dishwasher. I tend to wash much by hand, while my partner insists that everything that can fit in the dishwasher should go there. I like my manual results better, including the fact that I want things clean [i]now[/i]. I rinse on average two (2) catfood tins daily pre-recycling. I'm not always careful, and am wearing a bandaid right now to prove it.
And I don't think there's anything funny about washing dishes. I think it's a basic human activity and need in our society. We don't obsess over it, we don't worship it, and if someone said we had to register, or even recall, our dishwashers for safety reasons, we wouldn't view it as an attempt by the state to suppress civil liberties.
I am not a big believer in individual rights to own things. Not even dishes.
Thu, 2010-08-05 18:53
#17
Are you a big believer in craftwork, Unionist?
Thu, 2010-08-05 19:00
#18
Catchfire
You mean these guys?
Thu, 2010-08-05 19:03
#19
Well anyone who has any bolshy ideas about my doulton or my vintage chinese restaurant settings is going to have to answer to the antique carbon steel sitting in my drawer.
Cast enamel sink with a bowling alley dishrack in our house. Hot water is very good for the joints, IMO.
Thu, 2010-08-05 19:05
#20
Maysie
Don't try this at home.
Thu, 2010-08-05 19:08
#21
bagkitty
Curse you Catchfire, not only did you toss in the Kraftwerk link before I did, but you went and closed the guns and ammo thread before I could post this (and the only reason that I didn't post the Kraftwerk link was that my paste memory was containing that guns and ammo link)... I think a suitable punishment would be for you to tour the country, stopping by the individual residences of all the babblers along the way and manually washing our accumulations of dirty dishes. [A much more effective deterrent/punishment than a suspension or banning!]
[ETA: of course I would have linked Radioactivty, which is altogether a better song]
Thu, 2010-08-05 20:28
#22
Are you a big believer in craftwork, Unionist?
More a medium-size believer, I'd say.
I'm a big believer in magic, however.
Fri, 2010-08-06 06:47
#23
Fri, 2010-08-06 07:06
#24
Well anyone who has any bolshy ideas about my doulton or my vintage chinese restaurant settings is going to have to answer to the antique carbon steel sitting in my drawer.
Cast enamel sink with a bowling alley dishrack in our house. Hot water is very good for the joints, IMO.
What is a bowling-alley dishrack, please? I might like one of those ...
Fri, 2010-08-06 10:06
#25
remind
What is a bowling-alley dishrack, please? I might like one of those ...
follow the link image too big to post
Fri, 2010-08-06 10:13
#26
@ skdadl
Here's a a double one:
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/12/08/1197092...
(edit)
crosspost
and thanks, remind. THat's almost the same sink, except for the fixture.
Ours is a single.
Fri, 2010-08-06 10:33
#27
Gorgeous, and thanks for the idea.
When I first got entangled with my husband (1985), he had one of those in his house, a single though and ancient. I loved it, but he had already got started on his notion of a kitchen reno -- my opinion at that level wouldn't count for some months further on, so the whole works was pulled out and handed on to some friends who wanted it for their cottage, drat them.
I'd forgotten that. Pretty soon I have to do something about my funky kitchen, and that is an inspiring thought. Thanks.
Fri, 2010-08-06 10:58
#28
@ skdadl
Funny. I actually put ours in; it was holding plants in a friend's garden. There was some ridiculous stainless steel thing that dribbled all over the counter when we bought the place.
Fri, 2010-08-06 11:06
#29
ElizaQ
One thing on my do in the winter project list is to make my own kitchen sink out of concrete. I've seen some beautiful ones before and they're not that difficult. Just take a lot of steps. This way I can make it exactly the size I want and with the look I want. I've seen custom ones that run into the thousands and thousands of dollar range. Material cost wise they don't even come close to some of the prices I've seen but I guess they're a decorating 'thing' right now. I just like the way they look and they would fit into the my house. Plus I just like making things. Heck if it's successful maybe I'll start charging people thousands and thousands of dollars for one....
Sat, 2010-08-07 09:01
#30
Neat idea, ElizaQ. I'd take on a few other smaller projects with cement first though, just to kind of experiment. Like a small bird bath or something. There's always some technique or something that requires practice and experience.
I wash dishes by hand and always will. But then, I have a window over the kitchen sink that looks out over the garden. I don't think I could handle doing dishes without a window over the sink.
And, Beltov is right. Rinse, rinse, rinse.
I remember back years ago, Michelle and I got into over the issue of hand drying dishes as opposed to air drying. Back then, I prefered hand drying so the dishes got put away and finished. Dishes sitting there air drying just looked like an unfinished job to me.
But I saw the wisdom in the hygiene, and now air dry. I particularly prefer this method in this kind of hot humid weather where I'd rather not dampen a dish towel to have it take on that damp dishtowel smell that I seem to be able to detect before anyone else I know.
Can't stand that smell.
I also learned over the years that you don't put your big meaty fist into a glass to wash it or dry it. Funny how the actual cut from glass never hurts at first.
Anyway, don't throw out those broken glass shards! They can be loaded into a replica blunderbuss, and used to kill coyotes at close range.
Reduce, reuse and recycle.
Sat, 2010-08-07 09:30
#31
I'm with Tommy - both on hand washing and the over-the-sink window (though I wish I had a garden...).
If the movement spreads, all those discarded dishwashers, with just a smidgen of re-engineering, make fab DIY coyote traps.
Sat, 2010-08-07 10:15
#32
ElizaQ
Neat idea, ElizaQ. I'd take on a few other smaller projects with cement first though, just to kind of experiment. Like a small bird bath or something. There's always some technique or something that requires practice and experience
:D I plan too. The technique for making these is fairly specific. So I expect I will end up with a couple of wonky birdbaths and perhaps a couple of wonky outdoor sinks. I'd like a couple of those anyways for washing veggies and other plant business. I'd like to do some counters as well so the first one will be for outside...to go with the sink... :)
Sat, 2010-08-07 10:33
#33
ElizaQ
Not completely on topic but since coyotes have been mentioned in this thread.
Here's my recently acquired coyote deterrent.
Now if I could only get her to do dishes....
Sat, 2010-08-07 10:50
#34
ElizaQ, you sure? I'd be worried the coyotes might eat one of those.
Air drying of dishes here too, although I confess that's more because I'm a scatterbrain and I find it hard to get through all stages of a task at once. Sometimes I never get back to finish up the latter stages at all. I guess that makes me the opposite of Tommy P.
The window over the sink is also a joy. So many North American kitchens put the sink somewhere else -- don't know why. I've never seen a kitchen in the UK, eg, where the sink wasn't in front of a window. If the window is looking out at your neighbour's wall, you could always think about installing one of those greenhouse windows (yeah, munnee, I know, although maybe ElizaQ will learn that technique next). They are quite neat-looking things, I think, and they can really heat the place up.
Sat, 2010-08-07 10:59
#35
ElizaQ
ElizaQ, you sure? I'd be worried the coyotes might eat one of those.
Hee :) Well in 10 months or so she'll look something like this.
Here's an article about Maremma's being used to protect an endangered penguin colony.
Sat, 2010-08-07 11:29
#36
Gorgeous (I should have said that before), and fascinating, ElizaQ -- I'd never heard of Maremmas before.
Sat, 2010-08-07 11:31
#37
ElizaQ
The window over the sink is also a joy. So many North American kitchens put the sink somewhere else -- don't know why. I've never seen a kitchen in the UK, eg, where the sink wasn't in front of a window. If the window is looking out at your neighbour's wall, you could always think about installing one of those greenhouse windows (yeah, munnee, I know, although maybe ElizaQ will learn that technique next). They are quite neat-looking things, I think, and they can really heat the place up.
Well I just washed some dishes and I agree wholeheartedly. My sink is next to the corner of the kitchen and has two windows I look out of one in front and one beside. Since it's on the second floor of the house I get a great survey view of everything on the property. It's my thinking, my planning time and sometimes just my looking time. Right now there's lots of monarchs flitting about because the pye weed and boneset is in bloom. So not only do I get to look out over a see of waving pink and white there's butterflies!! I lived in a place once that didn't have a window over the sink. Hated it. It made washing dishes feel more like a dull chore then when I have something to look at while doing them.
Sat, 2010-08-07 12:19
#38
Maybe this is the thread where I can announce that I got my aprons yesterday, the ones that say "Step away from my kitchen and nobody gets hurt!" I got a yellow one and a khaki one. I nicked my thumb with the box cutter opening the awful mailing bag they came in, so the khaki one now has a tiny bloodspot on it. Well -- it's a kitchen kind of story.
Sat, 2010-08-07 12:51
#39
Catchfire
That's great, skdadl (well, except for the boxcutter boo-boo--but now your apron has character!). I loves me a good apron. I got this beaut for my birthday last month:
In indigo. It's from my favourite Walter-Benjamin-themed web store, artintheage.com
It replaced my white apron which said "CANADA" on it (and was a bit stained) and one my mother gave me which said "Chocolate is the answer, who cares about the question!" It didn't really fit my aesthetic.
Sat, 2010-08-07 13:12
#40
Its a bit off topic, however I just installed a bathroom sink and fixed a leaky shower. Later today I will be clean.
Sat, 2010-08-07 13:49
#41
I dunno about trappin' coyotes. Never done it m'sen. I'd think most of them are too wiley to be tricked into gettin' inside a trap of any kind, unless perhaps you use a sexy coyote to lure them into the thing. You might find yourself inside the trap yourself with Wile E. Coyote watchin ya all interested like from safe vantage points a yonder. Yes'm, you're not going to trick them easily. I guess if they are hungry enough, then they might be had.
Sun, 2010-08-08 13:49
#42
Air drying of dishes here too, although I confess that's more because I'm a scatterbrain and I find it hard to get through all stages of a task at once. Sometimes I never get back to finish up the latter stages at all. I guess that makes me the opposite of Tommy P.
Depending on how my feet or back feels, I often take breaks while doing the dishes, mostly to come here and post this or that. Gives my feet a break (after work) and my back-- I think the ergonomics of the sink are off a bit. It's an old, sexist house. I suppose the counter tops were designed for someone five foot four or so, not six foot. Okay, five eleven.
But other than that, yes, years in a factory have me pretty process focussed. I have a particular order of operations, glasses first, then dishes, then cutlery then pots and pans. Wash, dip in the rinse sink, then onto the drying rack. Cutlery is organized and laid out to dry: forks with forks, spoons with spoons, knives with knives. And the forks and spoons are laid out convex side up, so the water does not pool, but has a chance to run off or evaporate.
Sometimes Rebecca West will drop in a stray cup or dish I missed, out of the process order. I will sigh heavily, then clench my eyes closed. Then with my right foot I will repeatedly touch my big toe back and forth on either side of a crack in the floor while reciting "doesn'tmatter doesn'tmatter doesn'tmatter doesn'tmatter".
No, I'm not OCD to that extent-- just a little self satire.
It's a laugh riot around here.
Mon, 2010-08-09 06:03
#43
I have a particular order of operations, glasses first, then dishes, then cutlery then pots and pans. Wash, dip in the rinse sink, then onto the drying rack. Cutlery is organized and laid out to dry: forks with forks, spoons with spoons, knives with knives. And the forks and spoons are laid out convex side up, so the water does not pool, but has a chance to run off or evaporate.
I've found this to be the most logical sequence as well. In my dish rack, all the pointy utensils are placed sharp end down in the cutlery basket to avoid cuts when things are in full motion back and forth from rinse to drying rack.
Mon, 2010-08-09 07:15
#44
That is the conventional order. I'm the opposite of OCD, but also MUST have my order when washing.
But I defy the glasses first thing [no grease in water yet] by plates and cutlery first. They fit in the pan together, and I pre-wash then... since I also MUST have some fairly heavy intial organizing of the dirties. Rinsing all the food that comes off quickly means the dishwater lasts longer.
I have a hunch there is something ergonomically wrong with dishwashing even when the counter is higher- with most cooking work as well. Because time doing either will get my back after I've been working elsewhere for some hours [which is the case more often than not.]
Mon, 2010-08-09 08:11
#45
Worth noting that this discussion of sinks and washing dishes is in exactly the same spirit as was the guns and ammo discussion. Lot of the same disscussants even- taking the same nerdy approach.
Or I should say, the guns and ammo discussion WAS in this same friendly and nerdy spirit... until some took it upon themselves to dictate that this was not up to the moral fibre expected of progressives.
Mon, 2010-08-09 08:25
#46
Tommy Paine wrote: I have a particular order of operations, glasses first, then dishes, then cutlery then pots and pans.
Caissa's order is glasses, cutlery, dishes, then pots and pans. I wash; Ms. C, dries.
Mon, 2010-08-09 09:48
#47
Worth noting that this discussion of sinks and washing dishes is in exactly the same spirit as was the guns and ammo discussion. Lot of the same disscussants even- taking the same nerdy approach.
Or I should say, the guns and ammo discussion WAS in this same friendly and nerdy spirit... until some took it upon themselves to dictate that this was not up to the moral fibre expected of progressives.
I know what you mean, KenS. Somebody somewhere referred recently to the "lifestyle" threads swamping babble (as if), and I must say that wounded me a bit. I had a feeling it was aimed at our apron discussion, which I take entirely seriously (and have paid for in blood).
I mean, there is a semi-effaced historical significance here. Domestic discussions have historically been marked in gender terms, and to many women they remain marked, however co-operative and kindly many FABULOUS men have become. (There are still discouraging stats, although those are about to be disappeared by Big Brother). Implying that domestic discussions are somehow beneath progressives hints at code for something else that I think is distinctly non-progressive.
Anyway, off to wash some floors.
Mon, 2010-08-09 10:40
#48
Timebandit
We don't have a dishwasher. The kitchen was built in 1912 and will not accomodate one at present. We also have a sucky set-up for the sink, not enough counter near it and no window. In fact, the guy who did the kitchen before flipping the house did a wretched job - cheapshit cupboards, bad lino, patio door in a stupid place, no good spot for the fridge, counter on only one side of the stove... We've got a reno planned, but had to put it off. We'll move the back wall out four feet, put in a dishwasher, island and pantry. I hope we can do it before the snow flies.
Meanwhile, it's dishes by hand and they tend to stack up during busy periods. Which sucks. I'd rather fire them into the dishwasher, but our last dishwasher was so crappy that you spent about the same amount of time rinsing as you did washing, and it was underfoot (a portable one on wheels), so I banished it.
Mon, 2010-08-09 10:53
#49
Catchfire
I have a bit of a glassware fetish, so many of my glasses I don't put in the dishwasher at all, even though my new apartment has one (hooraay!) And yes, they always get washed first.
Mon, 2010-08-09 11:24
#50
Domestic discussions have historically been marked in gender terms, and to many women they remain marked, however co-operative and kindly many FABULOUS men have become.
Why do we rate 'kindly and fab' apart from anyone else for attending to practical matters that are no one's designated task?
Mon, 2010-08-09 11:56
#51
Tommy Paine wrote: I have a particular order of operations, glasses first, then dishes, then cutlery then pots and pans.
Caissa's order is glasses, cutlery, dishes, then pots and pans. I wash; Ms. C, dries.
Need to put those kids to work.