Eating Local and Participatory Democracy

A friend of mine wrote a book on the subject.

http://homefordinner.blogspot.com/

I think it is slightly wrong-headed to suggest that organics are all that much more than conventional products when you buy locally.  The real difference is of course in the grocery store where a significant amount of gouging goes on for organic products. 

One difference in pricing that I have noticed on the local level between conventional and organic is that conventional farmers often don't seem to understand their costs as well and are often charging a price below their cost of production, especially if you factor in their time.  Organic producers, I guess, are more directly and more consistently involved in the production of a particular crop because of practices, but also because of the paperwork invloved in being certified organic, so they have a little bit of a better handle on their actual costs.

As an example I see this with sweet corn often.  You find people selling corn for say $3.00 a dozen.  There is simply no way that someone selling corn at that price is covering their costs, let alone their labour.  I refuse to buy from that person and will pass them over to go to the person selling for a bit more as I know they are more connected to the food they are growing and I trust them more.  Now I am fortunate that I can make that choice finacially, where I know others can not.  But for those of us who can, I think we need to be aware of the role we play in promoting the globalized food system, even if it is a sin of omission and not comission.

I agree with BA. If we buy organics at the grocery store, there is a hefty premium. If we buy from the farmer, there is not. We only go to the grocery store for those things we don't eat. As for meat and dairy, well, really there isn't a lot of organic available. But we care about three things: the animals are raised and treated humanely, that they are raised in open spaces, and that they are fed a natural diet. We just can't get organic, but we can get beef, pork, goat, and lamb often better priced than at the grocery store and that actually has flavour. Once you've eaten what was a healthy, happy chicken you just can't go back to that chicken-like meat substance they pass for chicken at the grocery store. Same goes for beef. Even the smell of grass raised beef being cooked is different. I'm making myself hungry.

For people unable to buy directly from farmers, I know there are a number of people working on ways to address that incluidng myself. There are major challenges. The solution appears to be more regional food depots catering to both commercial and residential buyers. But then that requires investment in space and transportation, and it requires that farmers take a risk in dedicating a part of their production to something that may start slowly before it catches on. What is really, needed, in my view, is a summit of independent grocers, restaurants, eaters, and growers, all committed to local food, who are willing to make commitments. On one side a dollar commitment must be made to purchase 'x' amount of produce and on the others, farmers then have to agree to ensure 'y' amount of produce is available and that quality is good.  The purpose would be to reduce the risk farmers take and to convince them there is  guarantee they will be able to sell what they do commit. And then all players would need to promote the concept and the market beyond the initial group in order to win a larger share of the market.

In other words, we need to put our money where our mouths are.

 Great thread.   I also focus on eating local food.  I figure about 75 to 80 percent of the food I eat is locally or regionally produced.  I'm fortunate because the area I live in is quite abundant in choice.  Even have a good source of locally produced grains and flours which is nice.  

 I used to be organic, organic, organic but over the past few years it's become lower on the priority scale and I agree with the comments about local over organic.   Plus I've found that many of the smaller producers that I've gotten to know aren't actually officially certified but still use some form of organic, natural and less factory farm type methods.    In terms of prices whether officially organic or unofficially I haven't found that much difference in prices in the farmers markets I do go to.   Meat products are more, dairy products tend to be more but I understand the reasons why and have no problem paying them plus quality and taste is just better.   I haven't found that it increases my overall food budget any because over the years I just generally use those things less then I once did so it balances out.   

 The grain products, flour and oats mostly, do cost more as well but it's not a huge difference if bought in more direct route to the producers.  I've been seeing them in more conventional stores now and there is a bigger difference, more middle people and premium pricing I guess. However I've found that since buying local tends to foster buying the basics, cooking more from scratch and eating more simply I haven't seen large increases in what it was before.  Eating and preserving  with the seasons also is more economical way of eating.  

 Speaking of premium/higher  prices what I have noticed is that when I have gone to markets closer to the big city, in this case GTA , the prices charged for organics do tend to be more.  St. Jacobs anyone? Wow.  :)    There's probably be some economic reasons due to costs of bringing them and costs of selling there  but I also think that theirs a bit of what the market will bear type pricing, especially in a place like St Jacobs which comes off to me at least as quite trendy and playing some sort of back to the land/farmer experience for the more upscale and touristy types.     Not that I blame the producers for that because quite frankly if I was a bit closer and for example could easily get a dollar or two more for the dozen free range/grass eggs I sell I probably would.  

 I also grow quite a bit of my own food so of course that's as local as it gets.  My aim is to eventually get as close to all of my veggies and fruits out of my own gardens as possible.  Takes a while because along with getting enough space into production it also entails learning about food storage (have had a few oopsys along the way), doing more preserving and adjusting diet in the off season months to different food then I was used to before. Squash is the big one for me.  I never ate squash before I started growing my own food but squash is great for off season eating because it stores well for a long time.  Plus for whatever reason my soil grows squash family plants like they are on some sort of mega plant steroids.  I've got a couple of plants that are now 30 ft across and they're STILL growing.  

     Some fruits and berries take a number of years from planting to producing so patience is in order.   I'd like to plant some nuts and that can be quite a long wait, 5-10 years in some cases.    I'm also making of the abundance of 'free' food that surrounds me, berries and apples mostly.  Last fall I picked tons of apples from trees left from old homesteads as well as the ones that now grow on the side of the roads, likely planted by birds.  Most aren't great for hand eating but are wonderful for anything cooked or apple sauce and jams and jellies.  This fall I'm going to make my first attempt at apple cider as I have access to a neighbors old cider press.    

 I doubt though that I will ever completely go 100% local or regional.  I still  eat quite a bit of rice.  I like tea and coffee.  I don't want to give up olive oil entirely for taste and health reasons. Then there's the multitude of spices that I regularly use in cooking which just don't grow in our climate. Then there are baking ingredients like sugar, baking powder, baking soda and vanilla.  I also don't want to completely give up chocolate either though cutting down is a good idea for a number of reasons.  :)   With these sorts of things I go fair trade if possible, try to buy things that are at least processed and/or bottled/bagged in the region and if possible by from more locally owned stores or businesses.   What I've found, especially with some of the more exotic spices is that I treat them as more special and not just run of the mill things on my shelf.  I've become more aware of there origins and don't take them for granted as much as I used too, especially after investigating what I would have to do if I desired to try to grow some of them here.     I also eat out quite a bit though I have found that more restaurants are using at least some locally sourced ingredients or at least letting people know they are because there's a few that have been for years and realize now it's a thing that some people desire.  

ElizaQ wrote:

This fall I'm going to make my first attempt at apple cider as I have access to a neighbors old cider press.  

Make sure you post your results in the Cider thread!

epaulo13 wrote:

..i am sorry to say that for personal reasons i need to leave the board for a while.

I'm sorry to hear that, epaulo--I hope everything's okay.

bagkitty wrote:

While I like the idea of eating food produced locally, I am not certain about the health consequences of a diet based on beef, sunflower seeds and canola oil. While I also like the idea of home gardening, there are certain realities that simply must be faced, which become clearer when one consults a handy chart outling time from seeding to maturity. (I guess I can add radishes and beans to the list)

I find a lot of discussions around the 100 Mile Diet and its kin really fail to take into account the climactic conditions of huge (and yes, inhabited) parts of this country.  I doff my cap to those who, in fairer climes, put the time and effort into tracking down and supporting local food producers, and also doing the work involved in maintaining a home garden. I will, though, also point out that the model they are following is not possible for a large number of us:

Quote:

According to data collected over the past 120 years, the Calgary average for last spring frost is May 23, and first fall frost is Sept.15.

Theoretically, this leaves 112 frost-free days in Calgary for gardeners to enjoy without concern for cold temperatures. The reality is quite different from the theory.

Despite the magic 112 number, the actual range of frost-free days has been as short as 50 and as long as 150.

I would add that being frost free does not mean it is warm enough for actual growth of the plants, simply that it is not cold enough to kill them outright.

Again, while I salute those who can and do support the locally grown food movement, I find a lot of the commentary coming out of it to be quite elitist, and at times downright prissy. Although I understand the anecdote about the green onions takes place in the context of the lower mainland, if it is extended to other places within Canada (and a larger variety of foodstuffs) I think more emphasis should be placed on talking about the total environmental impact of transporting the food in question. For those of us living in areas where buying locally produced is simply not possible (and for many Canadians the list of what cannot be produced locally is seemingly endless), more attention has to be paid to making the least harmful choices... and this will frequently mean that the actual distances food is transported will be greater, but with a greater reliance on ships and rail than on trucking -- in the case referred to in the anecdote, China might actually be the preferable source to say southern California.

You should read Michael Pollan about the health costs of the industrial diet. Oddly, people survived and even thrived in the prairies for generations without industrial agriculture.

I don't know your MIL, for sure. But I know a few seniors who once worked hard from first light to last and produced almost everything they used on their farms and they would quite happily return to multi-generational households where everyone contributed as it would mean living with people rather than alone and forgotten as so many of our seniors do today. And I've got bad news for you: learn to grow or kill. Bad times are coming.