Project Samosa

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Kinetix
Project Samosa

This thread isn't really about the suspects arrested in Ottawa earlier this week on terrorism charges.  I'm starting this thread because I've been party to relatively little discussion about the actual name of this investigation that the RCMP has dubbed "Project Samosa."

When I was in high school (come to think of it, in the mid-90s, in suburban Ottawa, possibly with some of the same RCMP investigators who worked on this case) the word samosa was often used interchangeably with other derogatory slurs such as paki, towelhead, raghead, sand n*****, etc.  The nation/culture of origin itself of the targetted individual(s) wasn't important.  They were used as synonyms that both informed and reflected the ignorance of their user.

I'm thinking that the origin story for the name may have been benign.  Perhaps on the day of the project's genesis, a junior officer had picked up a sack of the snacks for his team in the Byward Market at the Indian Cafe (highly recommended, BTW).  Those of us who have toiled on writing stories, composing music, or even programming software are familiar with working titles.  Often it's the first thing we see on our desk.  I can't fathom how many times I've typed "g++ -O coffee.C -o coffee" into a console at 3 am.  These placeholder names that we give our work can change before publication, but in some cases they're appropriate and they stick.

Still, it raises a few questions for me.

Was the RCMP unaware of the possible negative associations with the name of the operation and the fact they were investigating people of Pakistani and Indian origin?

If the title was intentional, do members of the RCMP, and more specifically, the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team, see people of colour, regardless of national, religious, or racial background, as a homogenous group?

Are there other operations internal to the RCMP based on what is, either directly or indirectly a racial epithet?  Is Project Samosa a "working title" or was that the final name of the project for public consumption?  If the latter, which department was responsible for the naming decision?  Was it from within the detachment, or was it from a higher-level communications department within the force?  Was a ministerial autorization received and approved at the federal level?

The whole thing just seems PR stupid to me.  It hints towards casual racism or just plain insensitivity.  If it was done as a tongue-in-cheek joke it does nothing except undermine the seriousness of the investigation and also speaks volumes of the force's opinion of the Canadian public.

It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth, which really isn't something I want associated with one of the world's most perfect foods.  I understand that the officers are proud of their hard work and want something catchy for the media but I can't help but think that this isn't the way to go about it.

Tommy_Paine

 

 

I've never heard of samoza being used as a derogatory term for someone.    But then again I live in London.  Samoza's are something newish here. 

 

Anyway, over on the other thread concerning these arrests, I've been refering to it as project "Somoza".

 

I thought it pretty clever, but I don't think anyone noticed the significance.

 

Wink

Unionist

I had exactly the same distasteful reaction as kinetix when I heard this. But you don't have to look far to find racism permeating every single term used in these stories. "Homegrown", for example - can you imagine that being applied to white Canadians? It's code for "the usual crop of radical killers from one of them countries, but guess what, somehow they got their indoctrination here!!!"

MCsquared

Unionist I am not sure your analysis is correct. I found numerous references for example of Timothy McVeigh being referred to as a "homegrown terrorist"

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/dawning_1.html
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/11/oklahoma-bombing-15-years-on
In fact here is a convenient list of "homegrown terrorists" that are anything but Islamic.
http://baheyeldin.com/politics/list-of-home-grown-terrorists-in-the-usa.html

E.Tamaran

Here's another example of how unionist's theory is incorrect:

Quote:
Recruited by the FBI with the promise of a lucrative reward, Steele infiltrated a homegrown terrorist network of anti-abortionists and eventually uncovered Kopp's secret French hideout -- leading to his extradition and arrest in 2001 for Slepian's death.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/doctors-keen-to-let-sniper-rot-in...

Unionist

Ok, sorry, there's no racist tinge to the cops talking about "homegrown" terrorists. Who's keeping score here?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

That list of "homegrown terrorists" offered by MC2 uses the term ironically. It seems to me that the term is only applied after the term was invented to refer to brown, second-generation Americans. Kind of like how "heterosexual" wasn't invented until "homosexual" was.

ETA: And I also agree with Kinetix's point--I couldn't believe (well, I could believe, actually) that the RCMP et al. was actually using such a baldly racist name for their "project."

Maysie Maysie's picture

Kinetix, while your questions may have been rhetorical, I'm a literalist. Please bear with me.

 

Kinetix wrote:

Was the RCMP unaware of the possible negative associations with the name of the operation and the fact they were investigating people of Pakistani and Indian origin?

I assume they were completely aware and didn't give a shit. Racism is funny in some circles. Humourous. A joke. Armed agents of the state included.

 

Quote:

If the title was intentional, do members of the RCMP, and more specifically, the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team, see people of colour, regardless of national, religious, or racial background, as a homogenous group?

Yes.

 

Quote:
 Are there other operations internal to the RCMP based on what is, either directly or indirectly a racial epithet?  Is Project Samosa a "working title" or was that the final name of the project for public consumption?  If the latter, which department was responsible for the naming decision?  Was it from within the detachment, or was it from a higher-level communications department within the force?  Was a ministerial autorization received and approved at the federal level?

I don't think the specifics matter. It's systemic racism.

 

Quote:

The whole thing just seems PR stupid to me.  It hints towards casual racism or just plain insensitivity.  If it was done as a tongue-in-cheek joke it does nothing except undermine the seriousness of the investigation and also speaks volumes of the force's opinion of the Canadian public.

There's nothing casual about racism when it affects you or your family/community. Jokes of this kind are merely indicators of systemic racism, not the source or origin.

 

Quote:

It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth, which really isn't something I want associated with one of the world's most perfect foods. 

This might be harder for you to hear, Kinetix, but POC and their "cultures" and "foods" are very often exoticized and extolled by white folks for their wonderful virtues, once white folks learn about said foods. Foods which POC eat all the time, ever since we were young children in our homes. While your words read as, and are probably intended to be, complimentary, I read them as further marginalization.

 

 

Kinetix

I'm sorry that you interpreted my comments as marginalization by "white folk." I do not recall disclosing my skin colour or childhood diet in this post. Your assertion may be correct for some, however, it is incorrect and unfair to characterize me in this fashion without more accurate information available, especially when trying to counter this sort of assumptions made by any individual regarding any other based on race.

E.Tamaran

Catchfire wrote:

Kind of like how "heterosexual" wasn't invented until "homosexual" was.

Etymology

The term "heterosexual" was first published in 1892 in C.G. Craddock's translation of Krafft-Ebbing's "Psychopathia Sexualis". The noun came into use from early 1920s, but did not enter common use until 1960s.

The first known appearance of homosexual in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet by the Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny, published anonymously,[24] arguing against a Prussian anti-sodomy law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexuality

 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Hi Kinetix.

Some POC, and I'm not inferring you, have learned to exoticize (aka marginalize) themselves and their cultures. 

But I do apologize for my remarks about your compliments to the samosa. They were unfair and unwarranted. It's just that I find the har gow dumpling vastly superior.

Tongue out 

Sounds like we need a foodie thread.

Unionist

Sounds to me like someone could use a steaming hot cauldron of curried turnip soup with a generous side of garbanzo bean salad! [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/central-canada/naturopath-accused-involuntary-ho... foodie thread.[/url]

Sean in Ottawa

There is no question that this name is racist. They are taking a supposedly "national security" operation and giving it a name that is ethnic in origin although over a much wider area. Clearly the point we are to take from this is that the "security problem" is ethnic based.

Of course then they would deny any "profiling"

They would deny that they are trying to associate a huge wide community of Asians with the notion of terrorism. That would be accidental.

Maysie, I am concerned by the complaint about white folk who apparently like to exoticize everyday food of others as in fact an example of marginalization. I don't know if I can articulate it properly. I suspect there are people who do use "ethnic foods" to make their tastes appear "exotic" presenting them as a sign of their worldly nature and therefore emphasizing that this comes from somewhere "other" which could be taken as marginalization. Unfortunately, a lot of presumptions must be made about an individual's thought processes in order to make the case for this.

But the intent of such curiosity and possible appreciation in many cases may be sincere interest. Problem is the way that you framed it makes me wonder if somehow my interest in food not made by my parents is somehow offensive to you. The same is true of my interests in music. And there lies a whole other series of questions about what types of things are then ok for me to explore without offending anyone else. I don't live in the country of my parent's birth-- am I offending anyone by my interest in what was "theirs"? But the big paintbrush does not distinguish based on intent or recognize genuine interest.

I can't help but wonder if labeling as offensive the interest in anything that is not  from your own experience is in itself a form of marginalization almost with the same mechanism. And of course seen in the extreme what do we do about it? Do we assume anyone not Indian in an Indian restaurant is racist-- or Chinese? How do they fix the problem? Do we introduce a form of moral segregation to avoid those few insincere people forgetting the perhaps wider body of people who want to know more about what all humanity has to offer?

In this sense the distinction between a person who is genuinely interested in anything humans produce and someone who is trying to paint themselves as such without having that real interest (while then effectively marginalizing) is one that cannot be made by anyone but the individual.

Still as a white person, I feel I have to reject the sweeping nature of your statement in order to not limit my interests in food, music, art, and history to a sphere that is so small and boring-- perhaps if I might use another way of putting it --  marginalized.

I have never before heard that interest in what other cultures produce is now marginalization but that notion in itself would be very effective division and marginalization of everyone in my view.

I also wonder about the difficulty of throwing around such serious words like marginalization into these contexts. I can't help but wonder how that could devalue much stronger arguments.

Now I want to recognize that the problem you speak of may actually exist -- people trying to define others as "other" in order to define themselves as interested in the exotic (if I am understanding your case) but the presentation of this problem is risky and divisive and supposes to be able to determine intent from behaviour that does not disclose intent.

Anyway, Maysie, I respect you, if I have gotten what you were trying to say wrong please explain.

Buddy Kat

 

So they broke into the suspects place and substituted circuit boards for ones that wouldn’t work. Doesn’t sound like a homegrown circuit board making type of  operation . The builder of the boards would surely know the difference. So it looks to me that they were purchased for a sole purpose, which makes me wonder who sells such things in the first place. My guess, probably another one of those entrapment type jobs like the T.O.  fertilizer fiasco.

 

Regarding Canada staying in Afghanistan …Oh no Canada will be sticking their tail between there legs and doing the “cut and run” …no doubt about that. Now that the insurgents have the ability to fight back…. be it stinger missiles or accurate fuel tank piercing bullets, you can count on one thing. Cut and run. Canada will be leading the pack! Not that Canada should of even been there in the first place, but now they will be leaving in utter shame. We can thank the Liberals and the Conservatives for this most disgraceful phoney war on terror. Hopefully they will both pay dearly at the polls, but don’t hold your breath.

 

It’s all honky dory when you have the upper hand and can call in airstrikes and blow up entire families cause there too chicken to weed the enemy out and fight bravely and  then shoot  little girls heads off  cause it looked like a car load full of suicide bombers then conduct surprise raids at night killing everything that moves. Torture the poor farmers cause they LOOK like talibans…Then shoot off  their mouth saying “we will win the hearts and minds of Afghans” -  by blowing up their hearts and minds - 

 

 Regarding the terror for police state argument …I would buy the let them blow up people argument to justify more war etc. but I think the plot was probably directed towards the government proper…making it a no go. This was eluded to on a news story but we shall see….After all when it comes to the actual people of the country the government have shown time and time again they don’t give a damn about the safety or health of the PEOPLE…that can be proved by just looking at corporate pollution and all the health effects , support from government ..legal support where the police defend the corporations interests over the victims  and the financial swindling of Canadian tax money to support this crime against humanity.

 

No the homegrown Canadian terrorist isn’t going to go after civilians they probably no better than that being raised here and all….especially if they have an once of brain, which it looks like they may have , being doctors etc. They will go after the real culprit and there is no way the real culprit will turn a blind eye to that.

 

Using the word Samosa is probably a tactic to encourage even more terrorism, by taking on a racist role and encouraging division, maybe they will get lucky and civilians will be targeted….that they would turn a blind eye to and fit there behaviour

jtleroy

I prefer to await the case coming to Court. Is it racist to charge a Canadian Muslim ashass been done here? I don't know. I do know that if the criminal actions can be proven in a court of law then like any other guilty party they should face whatever judicial snactions are meted out. If they cannot the alleged perpetrators must be seen as not guilty of the crime and no more said.

Kinetix

Certainly, jtleroy- I agree that a court/trial is a much better way to ascertain guilt/innocence than the nightly news or a web forum, and there is another prior thread to discuss the particulars of this case. My concerns are regarding a separate issue altogether - whether the RCMP is stupid or if they just think that we're stupid. Can you imagine the outcry if they'd called it project paki? Or did they originally and this is the name for 'public consumption?' So why is this any different? When the SQ did that operation in Montreal centering on the Italian crime families, they didn't call it project meatball or project wop, so why should this be any different?

I agree. Next weekend is dim sum in Ottawa. Time for some chau siu bao.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Kinetix, it's a date.

Sean, how about you start a new thread?

Sorry for the drift, folks.

Maysie Maysie's picture

No One Is Illegal on "Project Samosa"

Quote:
As a movement for self-determination, we challenge the racist ideology inherent to the War on Terror that is intrinsically linked to repressive immigration controls. This past week four men were arrested, three in Ottawa, as part of a 2-year investigation entitled "Project Samosa" (cultural sensitivity training seems to have missed the fact that not many Pakistanis and Indians actually like samosas). According to reports, Misbahuddin Ahmed, Hiva Alizadeh, and Dr. Khurram Syed Sher have been charged; a fourth person has been arrested but not yet charged; while three to four others are overseas suspects and co-conspirators.

The men must be presumed to be innocent, both in the court process and in public consciousness. Media sensationalism, government statements, and public commentaries have revealed that the men are being considered and treated as guilty terrorists. This is despite the fact that defence counsel Anser Farooq has said that he knows almost nothing about the specifics of the case and that the charges are vague.

In a press conference, law enforcement official Mr. Juneau-Katsuya articulated high-tech detective skills: "We've got red flags everywhere and you can trip one of those flags anytime. If you're travelling to Pakistan, that's a red flag...When you've got enough red flags, then you become a person of interest. My understanding is they were caught from the Internet." Juneau-Katsuya also stated that one of the alleged targets was the Montreal transit system. However Isabelle Tremblay, a spokeswoman for the Montreal transit authority, said there have been "no threats, and no information regarding this claim. If something like that occurs, we're informed. On this matter, there's nothing." In an extensive Globe and Mail interview Rizgar Alizadeh, Hiva's older brother, described the allegations against both him and his brother as "a pack of lies" and said he was neither angry nor fearful because his "conscience is clear".

 

Caissa

Slight thread drift/ I caught part of a discussion on CBC radio about whether there was such a creature as quintessential Canadian fare. The only food they could agree upon was poutine. They also spoke a bit about national cultural appropriations of other countries cuisine. One example was the British predilection for curries and how it was raely referred to as Indian food. it was being contrasted with Canada always referring to other foods but their national origin ex. Indian, Chinese. Did anyone else catch this on the radio and have a better memory of the discussion/end of slight thread drift. 

NDPP

sounds like a fishy, half-baked somosa Herr Harper has served up as an appetizer to dinner which will be - surprise surprise be Afghan fare with some fancy and expensive Amerikkkan jets for dessert -

Sean in Ottawa

Maysie wrote:

Kinetix, it's a date.

Sean, how about you start a new thread?

Sorry for the drift, folks.

Thanks -- I think I said what I wanted to say on that...