Galloway's Canada Ban Won't Be Reviewed....but...

I couldn't agree more with Cueball. George galloway, who I saw last year by video is a bore. Where I agree with jtleroy is that integrity remains important especially if you are delivering an ethical or moral message. Unfortunately in Mr. Galloway's case you have a person with questionable integrity, questionable ethical values and a bore delivering an important message. It's really too bad.

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people.

:applause:

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

Personally, I think of myself as a person of considerable morality and integrity, yet I am hesitant to match myself against a man who defies a military blockade to deliver aid to oppressed people. If you have problems with Galloway's integrity, I assume they must be quite substantial to overshadow this and other actions that are clearly admirable, so it's strange to me that nobody has mentioned them yet. What are these concerns? let's hear them.

I don't know;  a person who happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students on that regime's mouthpiece (Iranian Press tv), does not quite seem like a man of morality and integrity to me. But I guess we may have different standards.

mahmud wrote:

From time to time, I too feel this jolt of nostalgia for the good times of the Shah and the Savak.

They say the Shah paid well for western journalists who wrote favourable pieces about him. With a talent in kissing torturers' bottoms, Galloway would have made a fortune back then.

George Galloway is a total embarrassment. How  can anyone support this lunatic? His TV show owned and  financed by Press TV  ergo The "Islamic Republic of Iran"- a country that since its "Islamic revolution" in 1979 has been able to move back into the 7th century in only 30 years. Imagine what Irans leaders- ooops dictators can do in the next thirty years. Welcome the dinosaur age!

Back to Galloway: There is one good thing that Mr. Galloway does- he is like the bug killer RAID! When  you spray GALLOWAY in a room the bugs come out and the world gets to see just exactly who is behind the lunacy that refers to the only "genuine democracy" in the Middle East as "Apartheid"- as if any Professional Israel Basher has the intellect to understand  the definition of "Apartheid" or the fact that "Palestine" is a myth created inorder to demonize Jews- the indegenous people of Israel ergo "Palestina" and deligitmize the State of Israel. Well take heed  if you read Hamas'- PLO  Charter  it states clearly that "There is no room for a Jewish state in an Islamic  Middle East"! Really- I thought that this was about "Palestine" and "Palestinians" - many of whom are not only 'Muslim" but are also "Christian" - "Athiest"- and even .... oy..  Gay"..."GAY"! Oh oh...QAIA -Gazdzooks these "turkeys" (QAIA) are invited to a Thanks Giving Dinner in "Gaza" and dont know that they are the main course!

Not only dont "Professional Israel Bashers" not  know the definition of "Apartheid" - ( hint:road signs in Saudi Arabia that say this way for 'believers" and that way for "unbelievers') but  to "Professional Israel Bashers" - who never saw a map of  the British Mandate of "Palestine"- "Palestine" is only the smallest part of "Palestine"- ( Israel is 20,000 sq km in size) where Jews live and not the largest part of 'Palestine"( 110,000 sq km of "Palestine" ergo  Jordan- Southern Syria- Lebanon)  where Arabs live and where over 2000,000 "Palestinians" are kept in refuge camps - and denied citizenship by their "Arab brethren" in the territory  known as "Palestine"!

But hey since when does a "Professional Israel Basher" ever  care about objective fact !

 They "demonize" Israel and justify it by suggesting that they are acting in the interests of 'Human Rights"- ergo "Palestinian rights"- yet they are 100% silent to the fact that  some 450,000 Palestinians - citizens of Kuwait since well before 1947- have been brutally raped- tortured - murdered and finally ETHNICALLY CLEANSED between  1990- 2010.

Today there are less than 10,000 Palestinians left in Kuwait. When questioned about this "genuine" example of "ethnic cleansing " and Genocide" the "Professional Israel Basher "  conveniently looks the other way. You know why? Because, like the leaders( tyraants) of Sudan who commit an ongoing Genocide in Darfur, the leaders of Kuwait happen not to be Jewish! And of course because they are not a "Democracy" and are a Theocracy"  that governs with impunity as they have not signed on to the Human Race!

In the words of "Palestinian Author and Columnist

Khalid Amayreh

"Kuwait had the right to do it. Palestinians belong to Palestine not to Kuwait" because " every Arab country has the right to expel Palestinians".

Cueball wrote:

Didn't all that crap about Galloway getting payola from Hussien proven to be a bunch of crap. He went in front of a senate sub-comittee and roasted them, as far as I remember it.

If I remember correctly He reminded them about Rumsfeld's visit to Saddam; true, but Rumsfled is hardly a man of integrity either.

As I remember it all of the allegations about Galloway personally profitting from his opposition to sanctions and the Iraq war were dropped by the senate sub-committee on the oil for food program, (he was never personally charged and the Committee never took up Galloway's challenge to charge him with perjury} and documents that were found that alleged he personally profited were found to have be of dubious quality, and that Galloway won a libel suit against the newspaper that made those allegation, and no evidence has been brought forward to support those allegations.

Nothing was ever established to show that charities managed by Galloway disbursed funds for anything but the intended purposes, even though it was established that Iraqi business people did contribute to those charities. This, Galloway openly admited in his address to the sub-committee.

The Christian Science Monitor also retracted its story concerning millions of dollars that it said Galloway received from that Iraqi government, and it too later retracted that story, apologizing and concluding that the original documents upon which their story was based were "almost certainly" sophisticated forgeries.

Winning 150000 pounds is a substantial reward, but suing for it and winning in court does not amount to "bottom kissing" in my books. Rather I would say it was the Telegraph that was proved to be engaged in bottom-feeding. We do not know how much in damages the CSM dished out, but I think it is pretty safe to say that someone went through an awful lot of effort to smear Mr. Galloway by alleging that he personally profitted from his dealings with the Baath government in Iraq, an allegation you seem to be repeating.

Cueball wrote:

So, no, I don't agree that there is anything substantive to suggest that Mr. Galloway "collaborated" with Saddam Hussein. Meeting with foreign government officials and saying nice things about them and arguing against bombing their countries into oblivion, does not amount to collaboration in my books.

You misunderstood my post. when I said collaboration, I was talking about Iran.

Cueball wrote:

I personally don't care if the US and the Israelis turn Tehran into a pile of smoldering ruins. What amazes me is that anyone from there actually thinks that somehow Iran is to be saved by the west. Indeed, the only thing that concerns the imperial power is power, and unless there is a compliant regieme, they prefer no regieme and ruination of the nation.

Indeed, if their latest exploits are to be any kind of guide the might actually prefer ruination to compliance. Compliance usually requires some kind of give and take, whereas ruination requires taking only.

You made lots of assumptions about what I must have or have not thought, and most of your assumptions are incorrect. The part of debate that I participated in, was about Galloway's integrity or lack thereof, and I showed that a man so inconsistent who claims to be a supporter of oppressed people while working for another oppressive regime can hardly be a man of integrity. The main focus of my argument was always about Iran and Galloway's working for press TV (while his handshake with Uday Hussein was a sidenote example).

BTW thanks for giving us the only two options of ruin versus compliance! Typical self-centered mentality of a westerner. Fortunately, the world imperial powers (as you put it) are not as dominant as you may think, and as history has shown many times, oppressed nations can find much better options than the choice of cancer versus plague.

'agent of the Iranian government'

...I think we should be touching bottom any time now.

Cueball wrote:

The Christian Scenice Monitor is based in the USA so it is US and not British libel law that applied. 

If the matter was tried in the UK:

BBC wrote:

Mr Galloway's solicitor Mark Bateman told Mr Justice Eady at London's High Court that the allegations which appeared in the Christian Science Monitor last April were "false and without foundation".

Then UK law would certainly apply.

The Christian Science Monitor's later investigation that revealed the documents to be forgeries doesn't really have anything at all do with the fact that the matter was heard in the UK according to UK law, not U.S. law.

You made an error in thinking that U.S. law would apply to a British citizen's libel suit against the Christian Science Monitor simply because that publication is based in the U.S.  I corrected this error - nothing more, nothing less.

This bears repeating:

Quote:

"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress

This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.

al-Qa'bong wrote:

This bears repeating:

Quote:

"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress

This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.

A lie? Don't think so. There is plenty of evidence that galloway gave cash to Hamas. And whether you like it or not Hamas is a terrorist group so identified by Canada, Usa, UK etc. ee for yourself http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2060.htm

jtleroy wrote:

al-Qa'bong wrote:

This bears repeating:

Quote:

"I think Jason Kenny did very much the right thing when he pointed the finger and said here is a man whom we know has raised money for terrorist causes and that is a concern. I hope that the magnifying glass would be more on that than anything else..." Bernie Faber Canadian Jewish Congress

This isn't an example of a mere mishtake, Farber is actively lying in a sleazy attempt to smear Galloway as a terrorist.

A lie? Don't think so. There is plenty of evidence that galloway gave cash to Hamas. And whether you like it or not Hamas is a terrorist group so identified by Canada, Usa, UK etc. ee for yourself http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2060.htm

Pffft! MemriTV is an outfit run by "former" Mossad agents. Please! And I thought you were concerned about Galloway's credibility.

Quote:

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.

Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian.

Dressing up like a pussy cat might make you look silly, but posting media stories filtered through Mossad front organizations makes you look like twice the fool for trying. Go peddle that tripe over on the Sun comments section or something. The only reason that its not mistranslated is because the original video is in english already. Their Arabic translations are often fanciful to say the least.

In anycase that speech and that evidence was part of the material which the Federal Court judge used to determine that Galloway was not a terrorist.

Anything new? Did Memri come up with a set of documents found in an Iraqi government building showing that he recieved 10 million dollars from Sadam Hussien's government... oh sorry, tried that already... A copy of a cancelled cheque signed by Ahmed Yassin? A copy of Mein Kempf autographed "in solidarity" by Rantisi with trace amounts of blood matching that of a suicide bomber? A picture of Galloway throwing a rock at an Israeli check point,.. anything?

Cueball wrote:

 and that assimilated Jewish fascist guy whose a fan of mass murderer Baruch Goldstien, whose name I can't remember now because I am in a particularly good mood.

Meir Weinstein. The activities of the JDL have been described by the FBI, in congressional testimony before and after 9/11, as terrorist. (The organization itself is not listed, note.)

Ah, Alykhan "Infandous" Velshi, the smirky popinjay who is Kenney's "communications director" and who led the public campaign last year against Galloway. It seemed fairly clear then that he was being fed information from the JDL -- tsk tsk. So that's where the catsuit story is coming from -- it figures. Some of us comment here for free, y'know.

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

I freely admitted that I didn't have much information on this topic and asked people to explain why they disliked Galloway so much, since up to then no explanations had been given. Your strange eagerness to smear me doesn't bode well for the credibility of your claims. In fact, Cueball seems to be demolishing them quite handily. You've gone from "happily receives a paycheck by a fascist dictatorship to regularly defend the arrest and torture of thousands of human right activists, journalists and students", to " once called Iran a democracy". Bit of a gulf between those two, I'd say. And once again Cueball disagrees with even this claim.

Actually, I stand by all statements I made, and Cueball chose to selectively respond to some minor points he found there. First regarding paycheck, it is a fact that Galloway has a weekly show on the Iranian pressTV in which he continuously sings the praise of the Iranian government not just with regard to Palestine but also regarding the 2009 election and its aftermath events. Even Cueball could not dispute that. Now just using that venue for any purpose is shameful - kinda like having a program on Nazi tv sitting with Goebbels back in 30s while claiming to be an anti-racist! However when the person in question actually goes out of way to sing the praise of his employer too, that is hardly a model of integrity.

In addition to his support on pressTV program, in his numerous speeches in the UK he has continuously defended the Iranian regime against the protest movement, including the house of common where he was confronted by Iranian students, he accuses them to be monarchists and terrorists (see the link I posted before- ironically one of the Iranians accused by him is the socialist activist son of a prominent leftist author who was in prison during the Shah) Galloway's position toward the current Iranian regime has always been very clear.

Now keep in mind that my debate with you was about the question of "integrity". Do you consider those who call Israel "the best democracy of middle east" and close their eyes on Palestinians suffering, men of integrity? Iran is even far less of a democracy, and contrary to Galloway's statement, has not been a "democracy in progress". Presidential elections have been held in Iran for 30 years; the first one back in 1980, in which a wide range of candidates were allowed to stand with very little screening. Since then, the situation kept worsening. In 1997 a less known candidate (Khatami) even managed to beat the regime's favorite. So the claim that somehow the 2009 election in Iran was a sign of "progress toward democracy" is completely false.

The only difference this time was that in the first day after the election - even before any mass demonstration - the entire top executives of the party that supported Ahmadinejad's opponent were arrested, then the campaign workers of the parties, then almost all student activists, then ordinary people who were just showing up on the street with the opponent's green signs. The total number of arrested - according to the regime's judiciary - was over 10,000. Many who just walked in a demonstration received two-year to 5-year jail sentences. Those who broke a window or throw a rock were accused of "fighting God" and received death sentences. All newspapers belonging to other factions and parties but one were shut down. The above information is all from government official sources, not the opposition. The estimate on the number of killed people ranges from 37 (according to government officials - 3 confirmed deaths from torture in jail) to over 300 by opposition sources.

And then you are telling me a man who on his program continues to support the regime that was the perpetrator of this whole ordeal is "a man of integrity"? I think not.

Cueball wrote:

Listen I am not an avid Galloway watcher, so I haven't had the chance to go over every statement he has made about the Iranian election. You however offered an example by way of a Youtube clip that you seemed to think was a definiative example of Galloway's support for the regieme of Amedinejad. I didn't need to dispute anything. I just needed to look at the clip to see what he was saying for content, and he basically compared the election to the Florida vote fraud and then went on to say that the fraud did not deligitimize the US in eyes of the west, and so on.

Cueball, the only part of my post with regard to Saddam and Galloway was a two-word phrase "paying dictator" which you focused on. Could you kindly also give your opinion about Galloway's relationship with the other paying dictator where there is no dispute - his presence on the Iranian presstv?

Regarding the election I gave two clips and a link as examples, and a quick search on youtube beings up many hits that I haven't gone through one by one. However even that clip had sufficient evidence in my view: There is no logical comparison of Florida vote and the Iranian election. Al Gore did not end up in jail, nor his supporters. I don't recall anyone in Florida sentenced to death because of the election. If this comparison -as well as the statement about Iranian "democracy"- was not made to whitewash the crimes of the Iranian regime in the aftermath of the election, then I don't know what "support" means. For example, in your view if someone in response to the issue of Palestinians suffering, every time replies that " But Israel is the only democracy in middle east", is he not supporting Israel? In that sense, how is the position of Galloway toward Iran any different from the position of a Fox News commentator toward Israel?

Cueball wrote:

Now Amedinejad is Hitler, and Galloway is Lord Haw Haw.

For clarification, that monkey (Ahmadinejad) is just a bellboy and a show.  He takes orders from the Hitler-like religious elite behind him.

Cueball wrote:

Quote:

"The people who are on the streets protesting are Iranians. They are Iranian citizens. They believed that their candidate was going to win the election. They are suffering very great dissapointment. Some of them feel that they were cheated, and they are entitled to make that complaint. And they are entitled to demonstrate in support of it. So it would not be fair to write off all those people who are campaigning against the election result as foreign agents."

So we were "entitled". What a complete whitewash. Then how come 10,000 of us ended up in jail or dead either by bullets or under torture? He forgot to mention that?  or that's part of the democratic process that he says "has come a long way in Iran"?

How do your construe saying that Iranians are allowed to express their views through public demonstrations as support for having demonstrators rounded up and arrested for doing so?