If people really do like Pantalone so much better than Smitherman - why wasn't Pantalone ahead of him in the polls for the past six months?? I'm assuming that the 40% of Smitherman voters who say they are voting strategically would include a lot of former Thompson and Rossi supporters who see Smitherman as the lesser of two (or three) evils now that their candidate has dropped out.
Ford vs Smitherman vs Pantalone
Mon, 2010-10-18 22:42
#52
Mon, 2010-10-18 23:36
#53
Quite possibly because polling has more to do with manipulating public opinion rather than just measuring it.
I suppose someone who originally claimed they were supporting Rossi or Thompson could claim they were strategically voting for Smitherman rather than not voting at all: although that is not what is really meant by strategic voting.
Even so if only half of that 40% were for Pantalone than that would mean he and Smitherman would be tied at 24%. It is also unlikely that all those who prefered Rossi or Thompson would not necessarily prefer Smitherman over Pantalone, so Joe still might of had a lead. The point is that the optics of Smitherman being the only one who could beat Ford would be lost and that could have meant the anyone but Ford swing would go to him instead. There seems to be a lot of support for Pantalone than was really reflected in other polls the other relevant figure in this poll is that Pantalone is second choice for 35% of the total, based on that Pantalone would win a run off either against Ford or Smitherman.
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:04
#54
RevolutionPlease
Vote Joey Pants. I don't live there* but I don't see how you can't??? [*Lived my first 30 years in TO]
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:15
#55
In the Nanos poll, even when people are asked other questions like "who is most trustworthy?" and "who is most competent?" Pantalone is a distant third every time.
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:21
#56
Meanwhile, while Toronto is poised to elect neo-fascist Rob Ford as mayor - Calgary of all places is electing a new mayor tonight a left of centre Muslim named Naheed Nenshi.
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:41
#57
Cueball
If people really do like Pantalone so much better than Smitherman - why wasn't Pantalone ahead of him in the polls for the past six months?? I'm assuming that the 40% of Smitherman voters who say they are voting strategically would include a lot of former Thompson and Rossi supporters who see Smitherman as the lesser of two (or three) evils now that their candidate has dropped out.
For someone who spends 99% of their life talking about media and optics, you don't even exhibit a freshman's understanding of marketting. Or perhaps you do, and really all you are doing is being deliberately obtuse on point for political effect.
What the polls show is that Pantalone is more popular than Smitherman, even now, its just because people don't think he can win, they aren't going to vote for him.
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:45
#58
Except that Pantalone has been wayyy behind Smitherman in every single poll since January and if in fact people liked Pantalone but just didn't want to vote for him because they didn't think he could win - he wouldn't be a distant third when people ae asked who is most trustworthy and who is most competent etc...
I said from the start that he would make a good mayor and he is a good man, but he is a weak candidate - there is no "there" there.
Tue, 2010-10-19 00:58
#59
[url=http://www.mayorjoe.ca/2010/10/18/rob-ford-george-smitherman-and-rocco-r... endorsed by his opponents[/url]
Tue, 2010-10-19 01:04
#60
Cueball
Actually its quite apparent that there is a clique in the NDP directly undermining his candidacy more or less arguing what you have been arguing. Indeed the NDP is apparently so corrupt now that there is not a single NDP volunteer working on Pantalone's campaign in Ward 20, because they are busy trying to get Jack Layton's son a job as Joe's replacement in Ward 19.
Who knows what might have happened for Joey if Olivia Chow had bothered to write up an email and send it to her constituency list, asking for help and support from her supporters in Trinity Spadina. Maybe 1 or 2 would have shown up.
This kind of nepotistic patronage which killed the NDP in Ward 20 with the whole Helen Kenedy affair. A repeat now in Ward 19 should finish off the rest of the organization in Trinity Spadina for good.
Tue, 2010-10-19 01:15
#61
bagkitty
Meanwhile, while Toronto is poised to elect neo-fascist Rob Ford as mayor - Calgary of all places is electing a new mayor tonight a left of centre Muslim named Naheed Nenshi.
Stockholm... well I guess that describing Nenshi as "left of centre" very much depends on where the pole marking the center is actually located (although I do plan on seriously enjoying going "neener, neener" in the direction of certain Central Canadian Overlords when the results are declared final).
It would, however, be more accurately described as the candidate who was connected with the Federal Conservative old boy network (McIvor) and the candidate connected with the Provincial Progressive Conservative old boy network (Higgins) went down at the hands of the candidate who was not connected to the old boy networks (Nenshi). This is still a good thing though, even if it does mess up my streak of never having voted for a winning candidate.
Tue, 2010-10-19 07:33
#62
Stockholm... well I guess that describing Nenshi as "left of centre" very much depends on where the pole marking the center is actually located (although I do plan on seriously enjoying going "neener, neener" in the direction of certain Central Canadian Overlords when the results are declared final).
Is Nenshi left-of-centre in terms of Calgary politics?
Tue, 2010-10-19 11:50
#63
Interesting column by Royson James. When i saw the headline "Pantalone backers have little choice", i expected the usual histrionics about how we have no choice but to support Smitherman - but in the end the column is actually more of an exhortation to stick with Pantalone!
http://www.thestar.com/article/877406--real-pantalone-backers-have-littl...
"So, if you like Smitherman’s typically Liberal platform — spend a little, tighten the budget, build a little, cut a little — and think this is not a carefully constructed platform to draw support left and right, then that’s where your vote should safely rest.
But if you don’t believe in contracting out garbage services, studying incineration as an option, freezing taxes and cutting staff through attrition, you are out of step with both Smitherman and Ford. One’s better only by degrees.
Why, then, would you abandon Pantalone, the only candidate that fits your vision of the city.
Stay in, Joe. That, too, is a worthy strategy."
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:36
#64
Actually its quite apparent that there is a clique in the NDP directly undermining his candidacy more or less arguing what you have been arguing. Indeed the NDP is apparently so corrupt now that there is not a single NDP volunteer working on Pantalone's campaign in Ward 20, because they are busy trying to get Jack Layton's son a job as Joe's replacement in Ward 19.
Who knows what might have happened for Joey if Olivia Chow had bothered to write up an email and send it to her constituency list, asking for help and support from her supporters in Trinity Spadina. Maybe 1 or 2 would have shown up.
This kind of nepotistic patronage which killed the NDP in Ward 20 with the whole Helen Kenedy affair. A repeat now in Ward 19 should finish off the rest of the organization in Trinity Spadina for good.
Further to that point, Joe has the same number of sign location on Royal York Rd in Etobicoke (where Ford is polling highest), that he does on Parkside Drive near High Park, which is prime NDP country. I'm having an increasingly hard time trying to convince myself that this isn't an inside job against Joe.
My observations are that his campaign was staffed by amateurs - nice people, but totally unqualified to run even a campaign for Catholic School Trustee. I mean, if two weeks into October they don't have any signs on Bathurst, that is a problem. I know there are smarter people than that in the NDP, but none of them seen to have helped out Joe.
Because of this, Joe's campaign has allowed people, mostly other lib-left types ironically enough, to frame Joe as "uncharismatic" and "unable to win", as opposed to being presented a serious, seasoned politician who isn't a blowhard and has a plan.
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:47
#65
I assume Pantalone has been given NDP lists etc... since i keep getting calls from his campaign asking for money and asking me to volunteer etc... and the only way they would have my name is because I'm an NDP member. I also got a robo-call for Joe from Jack layton a while ago.
No one loathes Smitherman more than activists and organizers in the NDP. If they thought he had the SLIGHTEST chance of winning they would probably be doing more - but quite frankly this is the stage of the campaign where there has to be some "triage". Resources are scarce and it seems like a no brainer to me that when you have progressive incumbents in the fight of their lives to hold on that is much a higher priority than flushing time and money down the drain on a mayoral campaign that is going no where and has zero chance of winning. If Ford or Smitherman becomes mayor - it won't matter whether Pantalone got 15% of the vote or 18% of the vote, but it WILL matter whether one or two more progressives are elected to council and are in a position to block any regressive policies the new mayor tries to implement.
Forget the absurd conspiracy theories. There might be some big "L" Liberals like Shelley Carroll who might have garnered some genuine NDP organizational support at Pantalone's expense, but Smitherman is not one of them.The hatred between him and the NDP in Toronto is mutual. If NDP members don't feel motivated to work for Pantalone - it means that his campaign has failed to motivate people.
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:49
#66
frankly this is the stage of the campaign where there has to be some "triage".
My point is that they've been triaging since January.
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:49
#67
My observations are that his campaign was staffed by amateurs - nice people, but totally unqualified to run even a campaign for Catholic School Trustee.
Actually Pantalone's campaign is being managed by a Tory named John Laschinger who used to work for Mike Harris and he is considered to be the best in the business...I guess he must be losing his midas touch this time.
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:57
#68
One thing, to be fair, that I think the political pundits can be faulted for is one key assumption about the campaign: that there is an "anybody but Ford vote". It appears that there is just as powerful, if not more so, an "anybody but Smitherman vote". This was particularly fatal for Pantalone, as his campaign team likely assumed that they were fighting for the same universe of voters as Smitherman when, in fact, they were probably being chipped away at by both Smitherman and Ford (notice the 20% of NDPers and 30% of Libs who, in previous polls identified as Ford supporters).
I can't tell you how many people have assured me that Rossi and Thompson dropping out would hand the race to Smitherman. They have dropped out, and it's still neck and neck, or Ford in a slight lead, depending on who you believe.
Had Pantalone's campaign been able to position him as an anti-Smitherman candidate they might have been higher in the polls right now. A little tricky to do when you are an establishment candidate, but not impossible. Some populist rhetoric in his leaflets, and messaging aimed at running against Queen's Park might have helped.
In any case, it is an academic discussion now.
Tue, 2010-10-19 12:58
#69
My observations are that his campaign was staffed by amateurs - nice people, but totally unqualified to run even a campaign for Catholic School Trustee.
Actually Pantalone's campaign is being managed by a Tory named John Laschinger who used to work for Mike Harris and he is considered to be the best in the business...I guess he must be losing his midas touch this time.
Laschinger is one guy.
Tue, 2010-10-19 13:04
#70
I can't tell you how many people have assured me that Rossi and Thompson dropping out would hand the race to Smitherman. They have dropped out, and it's still neck and neck, or Ford in a slight lead, depending on who you believe.
I don't of anyone who claimed that Rossi and Thompson would HAND the race to Smitherman. But it is fair to say thyat it would help him narrow the gap which it did. When it was a five way race, Ford led Smitherman by 24 points. After Rossi and thompson dropped out the gap narrowed to 3 points. Draw your own conclusions.
Tue, 2010-10-19 13:28
#71
Who knows what might have happened for Joey if Olivia Chow had bothered to write up an email and send it to her constituency list, asking for help and support from her supporters in Trinity Spadina. Maybe 1 or 2 would have shown up.
She wuld have been busted for violating the election rules.
Man are you ignorant.
Tue, 2010-10-19 13:44
#72
I'm sure there must be 2000 signed up NDP members in Trinity-Spadina. I don't know where they are.
Tue, 2010-10-19 14:48
#73
"Asking for help and support" is campaign material.
I am running from memory but I don't recall anything like 2,000 NDP members in TS, even at peak after the leadership race. That would be about 2% of the population.
Olivia had about 2,000 campaign workers when she first won election, but that stripped the rest of Toronto pretty bare, I think. Also, even there more than half of the ones I knew had union connections. Seeing a lot of union supporters does not mean there is no NDP support.
Further, what was the expected relative utility of a campaign worker in TS vs a campaign worker elsewhere? Note: that is different from the current relative utility. If Joe was going to win he needed to hold his base without effort and make strides elsewhere. Do you know that NDP members from TS are not working for Joe elsewhere, and if so, how?
Tue, 2010-10-19 15:01
#74
Cueball
You mean that the above pictured flyer sent out by the Provincial Liberals to 75,000 saying "Join us in contributing to make George Smitherman Mayor", is campaign material, and a breach of the campaign financing rules they themselves wrote?
For greater certainty, and without limiting the generality of subsection (3), the following shall not make a contribution:1. A federal political party registered under the Canada Elections Act (Canada) or any federal constituency association or registered candidate at a federal election endorsed by that party.
2. A provincial political party, constituency association, registered candidate or leadership contestant registered under the Election Finances Act.
3. The Crown in right of Canada or Ontario, a municipality or local board. 1996, c. 32, Sched., s. 70 (4); 2002, c. 17, Sched. D, s. 27.
Municipal Election Act for Ontario
Union activists asking each other for "help and support" and offering opinions in campaigns have to list each email they send and account for it as an in-kind contribution to the campaign?
Tue, 2010-10-19 15:06
#75
Cueball
Who knows what might have happened for Joey if Olivia Chow had bothered to write up an email and send it to her constituency list, asking for help and support from her supporters in Trinity Spadina. Maybe 1 or 2 would have shown up.
She wuld have been busted for violating the election rules.
Man are you ignorant.
So. You are saying that Olivia can not send out an email to her constiuents saying that she endorses Joe Pantalone? She is allowed to say as much in the media but not via Email? My understanding is that the rules generally cover sending out election campaign material for a candidate because this constitutes a donation. This is not the same as someone offering an opinion.
Hence unions can send out their own literature offering opinions on candidates, but not actually send out material that otherwise would be campaign literature from the candidate, because sending out campaign material is an "in-kind" contribution of a service that would have to be valued as a contribution.
For example, no one seemed to have a problem with the Provincial Liberal Party sending out 75,000 copies of this endorsement for Smitherman, direcly to residents:
Perhaps you can enlighten me and save me from my ignorance?
Tue, 2010-10-19 15:07
#76
remind
... it seems so cue, based upon your regulation posting, perhaps a claim should be made to the Municipal election body against the Liberals.
Tue, 2010-10-19 15:20
#77
Cueball
I think it would be argued that they are simply offering an "opinion" as individuals. I didn't see the flyer, but I doubt it has the LPO logo on it. Indeed, Smitherman may even have accounted for it somewhere in his financing. I don't know. In any case, I hardly think that the Olivia sending out an e-mail missive to her constituent list would qualify as campaign material. I think it would be her offering an opinion, just as she might offer an opinion on Joe Pantalone's web site, or in the press.
Tue, 2010-10-19 15:59
#78
I'm sure there must be 2000 signed up NDP members in Trinity-Spadina. I don't know where they are.
I highly, highly doubt it. My guess is that it would be more like 750 tops.
Tue, 2010-10-19 16:10
#79
I'm sure there must be 2000 signed up NDP members in Trinity-Spadina. I don't know where they are.
I highly, highly doubt it. My guess is that it would be more like 750 tops.
There were 300 members or so in St. Paul's.
Tue, 2010-10-19 16:10
#80
I think it would be argued that they are simply offering an "opinion" as individuals. I didn't see the flyer, but I doubt it has the LPO logo on it. Indeed, Smitherman may even have accounted for it somewhere in his financing. I don't know. In any case, I hardly think that the Olivia sending out an e-mail missive to her constituent list would qualify as campaign material. I think it would be her offering an opinion, just as she might offer an opinion on Joe Pantalone's web site, or in the press.
Actually, if by consituent list, you mean the voters list- that in fact would be a violation (and a very serious one) of the federal Elections Act.
If on the other hand you mean a contact list- which probably has at most several hundred (to maybe say 1500) names of donors, supporters and those who have wrote, called or visited the office AND given an address and indicated they were supportive that is a different kettle of fish. One would assume that it may have been done- do have evidence to the contrary. I certainly have received facebook messages (you know those group thingies) indicating support and suggestions to help out from Ms. Chow.
By the way that Liberal flyer- if it does not violate the letter of the municipal act certainly violates the spirit of it. I hope someone from Toronto filed a complaint of some kind.
Tue, 2010-10-19 16:59
#81
TS has maybe three times the St. Paul's membership. Possibly a bit more, but not much.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:02
#82
You're probably right. But ca. 1000 is a pretty big group, and we could use some help getting Joe's signs up in the riding.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:22
#83
If T-S has 1000 members, then they are down from a few years ago.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:22
#84
Just asking, and I am not being snarky, has anyone asked Ms Chow or any of her staff, or the RA if they would send something out asking for volunteers? I am sure it has been done, but the older I get the more I realize that we make such assumptions at our peril sometimes. You would be surprised at the numbers of people who want to help and are just waiting for someone to ask them. I know that is counter-intuative for people like you LP who is obviously very involved, but I have seen it time and time again over the years.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:23
#85
Just because the NDP might have - say - 750 members in Trinity-Spadina doesn't mean that all Olivia Chow or Rosario Marchese isw snap their fingers and the next thing you know - 750 people have taken three weeks vacation and are devoting the whole time to volunteering for Joe Pantalone. People have to to WANT to do it as individuals. If people feel more motivated by council races than by Joe's mayoralty campaign - that speaks volumes.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:24
#86
Cueball
I think it would be argued that they are simply offering an "opinion" as individuals. I didn't see the flyer, but I doubt it has the LPO logo on it. Indeed, Smitherman may even have accounted for it somewhere in his financing. I don't know. In any case, I hardly think that the Olivia sending out an e-mail missive to her constituent list would qualify as campaign material. I think it would be her offering an opinion, just as she might offer an opinion on Joe Pantalone's web site, or in the press.
Actually, if by consituent list, you mean the voters list- that in fact would be a violation (and a very serious one) of the federal Elections Act.
If on the other hand you mean a contact list- which probably has at most several hundred (to maybe say 1500) names of donors, supporters and those who have wrote, called or visited the office AND given an address and indicated they were supportive that is a different kettle of fish. One would assume that it may have been done- do have evidence to the contrary. I certainly have received facebook messages (you know those group thingies) indicating support and suggestions to help out from Ms. Chow.
By the way that Liberal flyer- if it does not violate the letter of the municipal act certainly violates the spirit of it. I hope someone from Toronto filed a complaint of some kind.
Geeze, talk about prevarication on point. I am game. A constituents list is not the voters list, which is actually a list that is publicly available anyway, but the list of her constituents that she has contact with. The evidence that Chow sent no communication is that no one I know who gets regular bulletins from Chow received any communications about Joe. I am not on Ms. Chow's Facebook "thingie".
All in all, one really has to simply go by the evidence of this web site to see exactly how tepid the support for Joe has been in the NDP official circles. The only posters who are defending the NDP organization on this issue are people in the NDP who are not from Toronto and not involved, while those NDPr's who are in Toronto have consistently argued that mayoralty race is lost, that Joe is a substandard candidate, and even that they might be convinced to vote for Smitherman. And then finally that what is really important is to ensure that Jack Layton's son is gainfully employed.
All others on this board who are actively supporting Joe's campaign directly as volunteers are not members of the NDP.
That speaks volumes about the support that Joe is getting from his party.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:29
#87
Cueball
Five would have been fine. Then the NDP would at least outnumber the number of volunteers that Joe has working in this ward who are not in the NDP. Forgive me if I am wrong but my impression is that you are in ward 20, and you are actually doing work helping get Jack's son a job in Ward 19.
Case in point.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:31
#88
Pantalone has been the NDP city councillor for large parts of Trinity-Spadina for the past 30 years - surely he has a list of names and contact info in his address book of all the NDP people who have worked on his municipal campaigns all these years. If not one single solitary person from his own organization that won him so many terms on city council wants to work on his mayoral campaign - what conclusions are we to draw?
No one person owns or commands the NDP in Toronto. Joe Pantalone has access to the same lists etc... as any other NDP candidate provincially or federally.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:32
#89
I think it would be argued that they are simply offering an "opinion" as individuals. I didn't see the flyer, but I doubt it has the LPO logo on it. Indeed, Smitherman may even have accounted for it somewhere in his financing. I don't know. In any case, I hardly think that the Olivia sending out an e-mail missive to her constituent list would qualify as campaign material. I think it would be her offering an opinion, just as she might offer an opinion on Joe Pantalone's web site, or in the press.
Actually, if by consituent list, you mean the voters list- that in fact would be a violation (and a very serious one) of the federal Elections Act.
If on the other hand you mean a contact list- which probably has at most several hundred (to maybe say 1500) names of donors, supporters and those who have wrote, called or visited the office AND given an address and indicated they were supportive that is a different kettle of fish. One would assume that it may have been done- do have evidence to the contrary. I certainly have received facebook messages (you know those group thingies) indicating support and suggestions to help out from Ms. Chow.
By the way that Liberal flyer- if it does not violate the letter of the municipal act certainly violates the spirit of it. I hope someone from Toronto filed a complaint of some kind.
Geeze, talk about prevarication on point. I am game. A constituents list is not the voters list, which is actually a list that is publicly available anyway, but the list of her constituents that she has contact with. The evidence that Chow sent no communication is that no one I know who gets regular bulletins from Chow received any communications about Joe. I am not on Ms. Chow's Facebook "thingie".
All in all, one really has to simply go by the evidence of this web site to see exactly how tepid the support for Joe has been in the NDP official circles. The only posters who are defending the NDP organization on this issue are people in the NDP who are not from Toronto and not involved, while those NDPr's who are in Toronto have consistently argued that mayoralty race is lost, that Joe is a substandard candidate, and even that they might be convinced to vote for Smitherman. And then finally that what is really important is to ensure that Jack Layton's son is gainfully employed.
All others on this board who are actively supporting Joe's campaign directly as volunteers are not members of the NDP.
That speaks volumes about the support that Joe is getting from his party.
WTF are you going on about. The voters list is not a public document. Not in any way, shape or form. Try going to City Hall and asking for the data on a particular individual not in your house or related directly to you. Parties are given the data at election time and then must return or destroy all copies of the lists.
I said if you are talking about a contact list that is a different kettle of fish. I assume the best in people generally so give Ms Chow the benefit of the doubt. However, what part of essentially agreeing with you if it was a contact list you were talking about didn't you like?
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:51
#90
Maybe you need to think more about what it takes to be an attractive municipal candidate who inspires enthusiasm - rather than that searching high and low for scapegoats and people to blame just because you may not get the result you like come election day.
Tue, 2010-10-19 17:52
#91
Cueball
I am telling you that no one I know that regularly recieved any direct communication from Chow through her list about Pantalone. Stockholm must be on this list perhaps he can publish a copy of that communication and resolve this issue.
Nothing on Facebook either, going back to July, as far as I can tell. Not even an notice that she endorsed.
Actually candidates, not parties, can get copies of the list, and as such, I think this qualifies them as public documents. The fact that access is regulated does not mean they are not public.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:00
#92
Cueball
Thanks!
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:01
#93
No, I received e-mails from Jack Layton endorsing Pantalone and urging me to donate and volunteer. I don't tend to keep old e-mails and I'm not going to subject myself to another one of your twisted Stalinist show trial-style interrogations. maybe you should spend more time knocking on doors for Pantalone and less time blaming other people for having other priorities in the election.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:02
#94
Cueball
By which you mean to say that you never recieved any communication from Chow about her endorsement of Pantalone via email.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:05
#95
Maybe you need to think more about what it takes to be an attractive municipal candidate who inspires enthusiasm - rather than that searching high and low for scapegoats and people to blame just because you may not get the result you like come election day.
Screaming about the gravy train seems to work. As does trying to be all things to all people, which seems to work better when your opponent is a drunken wife-beater.
You see, this is the problem, Stockholm. Winning an election is, largely, an exercise in marketing. Furthermore, in a depoliticized country where the major parties all resemble one another, the result is almost always predetermined the minute the writ drops. Unless one side makes a serious tactical error, the result won't change.
In the abstract, I don't care what makes a candidate "attractive". This year, "attractive" means trying to scrap transit city, screaming about waste and inventing figures about how badly in debt we are. Is that "attractive" to you? The implication of this, is that if you actually want meaningful social change then you have to do something in between those 30-60 day periods where peopld are supposedly paying attention.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:08
#96
Cueball
Other people's priorities seem to be getting the son of the leader a job.
Otherwise it is just an observation, either the NDP made no effort to support the only progressive candidate in the mayoralty election, or the organization is completely obliterated in Trinity Spadina.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:10
#97
Well said Stockhom. This election many of us will get a mayor that we don't like or who doesn't inspire us. In fact it has been an election of a whole list of uninspiring candidates. Not sure how the largest city in the country could have attacted such a poor field.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:11
#98
There is a close race with a rightwing candidate to keep progressive representation in Ward 19. Every single solitary person in the NDP in T-S is a VOLUNTEER who DONATES their valuable time out of the goodness of their heart as they see fit. If they would rather put time into a close race for council as opposed to a no-hope campaign for mayor that's their business. As it happens people campaigning for Mike Layton are also dropping Pantalone brochures and killing two birds with one stone - sounds good to me.
I'm not sure why any of this matters to you since you've made it quite clear for years that you consider all electoral politics to be a waste of time and you bragged about how you voted Liberal in the election in a fit of pique against the NDP.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:20
#99
Cueball
As I pointed out. It is pathetic that the NDP must commit an all out effort to win a seat that has been solidly NDP since 1980, using a candidate with high name recognition in liu of doing anything else. As for the rumoured "joint effort" Mike Layton has upward 2000 signs up in 19, while Pantalone supporters are still waiting for theirs... what's up with that?
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:25
#100
Ward 19 in its various incarnations has not been "solidly NDP" for 30 years. In fact in 1980 it was won by rightwinger Gordon Chong and then by Jack layton in 1982 and then after that it was basically Pantalone's personal fiefdom - there is no guarantee that the ward stays progressive in the absence of a popular incumbent. While the NDP has won Trinity-Spadina federal and provincially lately - its always been a very hard fought contest and in every case the Liberal and Tory vote combined was larger than the NDP vote. Ward 19 is totally winnable for a well-resourced rightwing candidate with support from the local Liberals.
Tue, 2010-10-19 18:28
#101
remind
TO council positions are full time?
what is the wage?