NDP continues to challenge the extension of Canadian military presence in Afghanistan

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Pogo Pogo's picture

War may be the most important issue facing the world today.  That does not make it the most important issue for the 3rd party in Canada.  The effectiveness of taking political stances has to be measured.  For me the most important thing the NDP can do is work to make life better for the people it is most likely to effect change for.

For example right now I see no issue more important than Libby Davies' affordable housing bill (somebody help me with the number).

remind remind's picture

Slumberjack wrote:
I believe Olivia Chow's statement was a patronizing bone purposely tossed to the party's remaining anti-war supporters in order to keep them tethered to the hook in their mouths.

Cute. So we NDPers are dog fish, eh?! As for this below;

Either that, or Olivia Chow has mistakenly spoken out of turn by making a statement that the party does not support.

Completely nonsensical, there would be no speaking out of turn, and you are espousing your beliefs only, which are  quite obviously nonfactual based.

...disregarded as merely the opinion or ranting of an individual member, and not necessarily respective party policy.

Yes people, such as yourself should disregard it, I fully applaud that position.

However, no matter if you choose to disregard it, or not, others  realize, or will, that it is just your POV and not much more. The NDP position has not changed since the beginning, indeed their current statement  reads much like the 2006 Convention statement, unionist linked to in another thread.


Liberals and Conservatives had previously committed to bringing any future military mission extensions to the House of Commons for a vote. Instead, Harper announced from Korea that this time there would be no public debate and no vote.

"Harper waited until MPs left Ottawa and then engaged in a backroom deal with the Ignatieff Liberals to extend the military mission in Afghanistan. This is wrong," said New Democrat Leader Jack Layton. "A majority of Canadians say they are against extending the military mission - Conservatives and Liberals must start listening to Canadians, not just to each other."

"What New Democrats are saying is we need an increased focus on diplomacy, development and governance in Afghanistan, in order to build a lasting peace to this region," said Layton. "Canada's military has served with honour and done its fair share, now it's time for Canada's contribution to be through aid and diplomacy."

Read more: http://www.ndp.ca/press/harper-ignatieff-break-promise-on-afghan-mission#ixzz15epbANTH

remind remind's picture

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:
Actually our military has NOT served with honour but in the commission of war crime. The rest is merely cover for continuing to support this imperial intervention in Afghanistan.  All Home Now!

Personally I am not going to hold the military personel, who have not committed serious breaches of human rights and  criminal code offices, to a higher standard of "honour" than I hold myself.

Canadians, in the most part have not acted in a state of honour in respect to Afghanistan. We were, and are still not, marching in the streets daily, nor occupying our MP's constituency offices on a daily basis. Not even occupying Parliament Hill  on a daily basis. We have all pretty much sat back and gripped and moaned about our military being there, written a few letters, signed some petitions, and let it go on for 9 years now.

The NDP have at least tried to educate Canadians on Afghanistan, and they have consistently called for our military removal from Afghanistan, no matter how much some here split, split end, hairs in order to say they have not.

No other entity on the Canadian political scene has done what the NDP has done to bring awareness to Canadians in respect to Afghanistan and our occupation. But yet it is not enough.... 

Some here think they should hold the NDP to a higher standard than they hold themselves, and hold themselves higher than the military personel too. Even though it is most likely the majority of the 'pundits' here, have done not much other than what I noted above, in respect to our occupation of Afghanistan.

Sean in Ottawa

Remind-- I get your point and am not trying to be hostile in response -- I mean these questions sincerely and productively.

What do you think individual Canadians should do?

What have you done, or have people you know done that works? (most of what I have done does not seem to work and my efforts, as you rightly criticize, have been limited I admit)

I write-- and send letters, call politicians and I write in comments in media stories and here. I have attended some, not many, demonstrations although I did not find they were particularly effective. I try to connect issues and make arguments-- come up with ideas and concepts analyzing the meaning of what is happening (because I like to think I am good at this). I send some money to the NDP when I can and I support modestly every month the Canadian Health Coalition (a wonderful organization that defends against the privatization of healthcare) I do this with a family and a job so I am limited. My salary seems okay for an individual but does not go far given the fact I have a family and must support others. We rent the cheapest townhouse in the city, second hand clothes, no vacations etc. and I save money where I can but still have limited funds to use money to achieve political goals.

I know you could say spend less time here and more doing but exactly what? And some of the time spent here is an attempt to contribute to a resource of information, insight, argument and analysis that there is little of elsewhere so I think there is value to what I do here other than griping.

I would like to know what is better because I know this is sure not enough.

I don't know you Remind so I can't even imagine what limitations you have or what you do so this is not meant to be personal-- but if you have ideas of what can make a difference-- whether you can personally do them or not, please share them. There are a good many people of similar outlook here that likely want to know what else works. I find it a struggle...



Sean in Ottawa

I should add that we spend some time talking to our children about these things and they share many of our values and know what they are. This is important because that awareness is critical.

My daughter's mother is an activist in the Newmarket area and she does a lot in this area, more than I do and I appreciate that. I wish more people did.

I also put a lot of my life in to a publishing company that published materials on current national topics at affordable prices. I donated books often to people who would get the word out. Unfortunately this became more and more difficult as booksellers were centralized, shipping rates increasingly prejudicial against lower-volume shippers and after 14 years I could not longer continue-- I stopped in 2001.

remind remind's picture

Sean I listed the things above Canadians shoulda been doing, including myself if we really really cared about  our military being occupiers in Afghanistan.

We haven't been, efforts amongst left Canadians have been token at best, and it is pure hypocrisy that people think they can be holier than thou towards the military personel, and indeed the NDP.

The reality is NDP are the only damn party doing anything, and a whole thread was started, supposedly under auspices of putting MP's and parties comments in, which is tff when everyone here knows damn well not 1 other party is going to do a damn thing about the occupation, or even  trying to reach Canadians about the occupation. Unlike the NDP who actually brough MJ from RAWA here to educate, plus a whole host of other out of the mainstream actions.



Unionist wrote:
Well said. The detainee issue was simply hijacked by Harper. Even though the NDP didn't sign on to the deal last spring, no one - including the NDP - has kept that matter alive. Harper won, hands down - as he has now won on the extension of the "mission". He has got the Liberals onside, the NDP blathering about a vote, and the BQ too lazy to even develop their own talking points, so they're copying the NDP's.

There is no opposition. And even when someone steps out of the box, briefly, like Olivia Chow, she is ignored. This must not be allowed.

It must be the [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/taliban-deal-would-need-to-... Harpers'[/url] new strategy to [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/ndp-makes-g... the Liberals on Afghanistan[/url] and cede voter support to the effective opposition NDP. Clever.


Well friends, here's something we can (hopefully) take heart in:


If French President Nicolas Sarkozy can take the hint, then hopefully Herr Harper can too.

Hopefully this encourages Canadian and American antiwar activists.


I get the feeling that because the US is currently waging currency wars against EU and BRIC countries, the French may see Afghanistan as leverage. Just guessing.


Herr Harper?  That's a little bit of anti-Teutonic racism, isn't it?


Yes if the Nazis were still around today, our pragmatic centre-rightists and right-rightists in Ottawa would likely be vicious toadies for them and all. Good point.


perhaps our left-centre-rightists as well..


I forgot, there IS no difference. It was NDP who put our troops in Afghanistan and are now refusing to oppose the harpers!!

 It was the NDP who lied to Parliament about protecting Omar Khadr's rights!!

It was the NDP who breaded and leaded and made fish cakes of Canadians. It was them!! hahahahaha

Someone better tell Canadians the truth, because the NDP is now at 19 percent in the polls. Well done Jack! Tongue out


al-Qa'bong wrote:

Herr Harper?  That's a little bit of anti-Teutonic racism, isn't it?

Well I could call him Adolf Harper/Stephen Hitler if that's not considered too strong or offensive.


[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/most-voters-want-harper-and... voters want Harper and Ignatieff to step aside, poll finds[/url]

Apparently the Liber-Tories are in need of totally fabulous makeovers. Harper and Ignatieff all washed up.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/most-voters-want-harper-and... voters want Harper and Ignatieff to step aside, poll finds[/url]

Apparently the Liber-Tories are in need of totally fabulous makeovers. Harper and Ignatieff all washed up.

More reason for Layton to take a more direct and courageous stance, no?

The majority of Canadians want nothing to do with the Afghanistan "mission". That same majority want a government who does something concrete about global warming. Time to ditch small picture platform tid bits like tax rebates for heating or regulation over ATM fees and go after big picture items.


Fidel wrote:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/most-voters-want-harper-and... voters want Harper and Ignatieff to step aside, poll finds[/url]

Apparently the Liber-Tories are in need of totally fabulous makeovers. Harper and Ignatieff all washed up.

The Liber-Tories are in need of totally fabulous makeovers?

Hey Fidel, did you ever see the Britcom "AbFab" ("Absolutely Fabulous")? Bwa-ha-ha-ha!Laughing


OMG another ABFAB fan! Eddy and Pats are way cool. That show must be where I got that phrase from. Love that show almost as much as Corrie and All Creatures Great n' Small.


From the latest Council of Canadians poll on climate change

71% of Canadians strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement agree that: “The money spent on wars and the military would all be better spent on efforts that reduce greenhouse gas emissions and the impacts of climate change.”

Maysie Maysie's picture

Closing for length.


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