Aliens Land!

Come on people, the real reason that the aliens don't come down and visit is because they can't find any intelligent life on the planet.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0oLJNfs_rM]The Disclosure Project: Are you ready for the truth?[/url]  YouTube 2009

Okay, it's nice and quiet in here...

[url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3194707/A-UFO-hovers-over-roof... have crossed galaxies and travelled billions of miles...where are we exactly? Er...Rotherham...[/url]

The Sun wrote:

Eerily it looks just like an object spotted over Belgium in 1990 - which so spooked authorities that F-16 fighter jets were scrambled to intercept it.

Why would they travel to this blue dot just to check out Rotherhammers? Don't they know they know we're not that important and that life here is a wild accident never to be repeated in at least a hundred Darwinian attempts elsewhere? A bloody miracle you say? Go on, duck. I'll have a cup 'o.

Here's the question I've always had about extraterrestrials:  so they've got all kinds of awesome technology, and they can communicate telepathically, and they can travel vast distances in space, so they use all of this to come to Arkansas, find some bumpkin on a deserted back road, pluck him from his pickup truck and probe his bum.  WHY???  What is it about the human rectum that "the greys" just cannot get enough of??

No, no we don't want Einstein's DNA.  We're not here for your Molybdenum.  This isn't a diplomatic mission.  But can we probe your hoop, please??

Snert wrote:

Here's the question I've always had about extraterrestrials:.  WHY???  

Why do people go to the zoo? Why do you find, on any particular day, dozens of people at a bus stop? Why do people like to travel in general? Because they can?

At one time, real scientists said that air travel was impossible. There were once people in Toronto, Ontario who, if asked about air travel from that city to Los Angeles in just a few hours, would have said it was a crazy idea. Obviously those people were not very scientific minded at the time. They were not being very objective about the problem of intercontinental travel by air.

snert wrote:

No, no we don't want Einstein's DNA.  We're not here for your Molybdenum.  This isn't a diplomatic mission.  But can we probe your hoop, please??

Diplomatic mission? Usually a diplomatic mission means two equal parties meeting to discuss something. You're assuming they are our intellectual equals. Why would you assume that? When you go to the zoo, are you there on a mission to talk to the monkeys? Why not offer them a book to read, something by Marx in hope that they might learn the way it is and liberate themselves?

I laughed out loud the first time, Snert; but the second post, well, it's just sounding a bit obsessive...

Quote:

 

I laughed out loud the first time, Snert; but the second post, well, it's just sounding a bit obsessive...

I should have just left it, but I guess having it taken seriously caught me by surprise.

Snert wrote:

Quote:

Why do people go to the zoo?

 

Not to probe the animals' asses. Also, if the zoo were 142 light years away, I think people [i]especially[/i] wouldn't travel all that way just to probe some zebra butt.

The Kids in the Hall raised a similar point.  Why would aliens go to all that trouble just for a few anal probes?  All they learned was that one subject in ten didn't seem to mind.

Jingles wrote:

Germany and Japan, presumably without the benefit of shitty alien drivers, managed to keep pace and/or outpace the US in technological development since the end of WWII.

You're assuming that the US couldn't compete with Japan and Germany without advanced technology from the heavens. Apparently it's not so hard to compete with ordinary earthlings using technology developed using Keynesian-socialist methods right there in the US. TVs and radios computers, US satellite tech, GPS, modern oil well drilling technology, metallurgical and medical advances etc in the US were a result of basic research and much of it subsidized by US taxpayers and handed off to a few hundred rich families, private enterprise and "the market."

They would have looked really stupid not being able to compete in markets which they themselves created. And still they had stiff competition from Japan and Germany. But there is another reason why Japan's economy spiraled after 1987, and it had nothing to do with not being able to compete with American industries and technology and everything to do with the Plaza Accord.

Alas, the armchair debunkery is easily reverse debunked using ordinary grey matter.

Jingles wrote:

Where is all the cool shit we're presuming comes from capturing a priceless alien technology?

If you were to give a library of the most informative science and technology texts to some chimps at the zoo, how long would it take them to invent something useful for them and all of their friends? And would they share it with working class slob-monkeys? What would their motivation be if the rest of the chimps are already pacified with ordinary useless widgets and are servile and obedient?

There is a long history of governments recovering crashed air vehicles of their enemies and studying them in secret to gain military insight and advantage. The problem with revealing super-duper advanced technology to the world is that your enemies would probably use the advanced tech in a military way against you at some point. And there goes your top secret superduper advantage. Best keep it under heavily armed guard at Wright Patterson afb, area 51 or wherever, and create a national security oriented military dictatorship beginning in 1947.

1947? Whoomp there it is! And...

Scientists will be discovering new laws of nature within the next ten or 20 years at CERN lab in Switzerland. Every time a new law of nature has been discovered, there were revolutionary technologies developed as a result. We are actually on the verge of a new age in scientific discovery and technological advancement. [url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100303094820.htm]New laws of nature?[/url] Coincidence?

Fidel do you watch coast to coast?

Anyway all will be known on december 21 12 and i'm not joking either, I take the mayan prophesies as well as terrence mckenna's modern update of the iching-timewave zero-very seriously.

At some point modern states along with law and order will be rubble and  a post civilized hominid will be able to walk into area 51 and get the final answers or interesting questions

Ah! More of the why?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loDoCZ6cutU]ufo ALIEN abduction interview with Betty Hill(youtube)[/url] 1961

Taken at face value, the evidence for this abduction is remarkable. There is eye witness testimony. There is corroborating RADAR evidence from the US Military. And Carl Sagan's former class mate, Canadian Stanton Friedman, says that the star map created by Betty and Barney Hill is remarkable evidence in itself. Betty says it was not fantasy or illusion. She said it happened.

As far as I can tell,  the two people in this famous story fully believed they were telling the truth.

[url=http://www.nicap.org/articles/hillzeta.htm][color=blue]The Zeta Reticuli Incident[/color][/url]

Quote:

Pattern Recognition & Zeta Reticuli

by Carl Sagan & Steven Soter

"The Zeta Reticuli Incident" is very provocative. It claims that a map, allegedly shown on board a landed extraterrestrial spacecraft to Betty Hill in 1961, later drawn by her from memory and published in 1966, corresponds well to similar maps of the closest stars resembling the sun based on stellar positions in the 1969 Gliese Catalog of Nearby Stars. The comparison maps were made by Marjorie Fish using a three dimensional physical model and later by a group of Ohio State University students using a presumably more accurate (i.e., less subjective) computer generated projection. The argument rests on how well the maps agree and on the statistical significance of the comparison. ...

Interesting, but in relation to the topic, these extra stars don't really add into the numbers in close proximity to Earth.

NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

First 'earth-like' planet discovered, with liquid water, in the 'Goldilocks' zone (not too hot, not too cold).

[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/074346673X/ctoc]Alien Rock: The Rock 'n' Roll Extraterrestrial Connection[/url]

Haven't read it, but Luckman was on Coast to Coast am. Apparently Luckman is a long time UFO enthusiast and director of the New York Center for Extraterrestrial Research and founder of the Cosmic Majority, an organization that seeks to advance the views of the majority of people living on planet Earth who believe in UFOs. He's very into the late Zecharia Sitchin's writings on ancient astronaut-Earth connection, which I am not very high on myself. Then again who am I to say either way? Apparently the royal family are UFO enthusiasts including Prince William. Apparently Willy, an RAF pilot himself, was seen carrying a copy of Luckman's Alien Rock.

Will Wikileaks reveal anything about UFOs? Assange says there are cables that mention UFOs. I think gradual disclosure has been happening for some time.

[url=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10696454]'Cosmic masters' call for Govt investigation into UFOs[/url]

The New Zealand Herald wrote:

Alien worshippers are urging the Government to admit extraterrestrial life is out there after the release of thousands of secret files on UFO sightings.

The Defence Force released thousands of documents detailing alleged UFO sightings between 1952 and 2009 on Wednesday.

NZ Defence Force releases records concerning the world wide "swamp gas" and even "ball lightning" phenomenon.

10 Famous People Who Believe

Quote:

9. Dr. Josef Allen Hynek
Josef Hynek, a respected astronomer, was initially a UFO skeptic. The U.S. Air Force appointed him science consultant to the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book to be their official UFO debunker. After serving in that capacity from 1952 to 1969 and personally investigating hundreds of phenomena for which he could find no scientific explanation, Hynek's skepticism eroded. In a Nov. 27, 1978, speech before a U.N. committee Hynek stated, "It is my considered opinion, as a scientist who has devoted many years to its study, that the UFO phenomenon is real and not the creation of disturbed minds." Hynek's greatest contribution is the Center for UFO Studies that he established and which is now a major scientific repository for UFO reports.

Slumberjack wrote:

I place alien visitations to Earth in the same category as stories and arguments relating to the creation of life and the universe from the design of a supernatural omnipotent being.

Well, sure, because there is a direct connection between shamans and the first religionists of the distant past and what the living have reported witnessing today. It goes without saying.

I do not believe in UFOs.

I do not disbelieve in UFOs.

Like you, SJ, I believe in UFO stories. And some of these stories today are told by some incredibly credible people from the low to higher echelons of society. And like those stories handed down through the ages from stone age people through the Orient and India, and North American aboriginals, the modern day equivalents read like the best science fiction has to offer. Chicken and egg? Like the X-files, there is still no hard physical proof, or no smoking gun in our faces proof positive of visitations from another world. But there is plenty of evidence apparently. I would like to believe, yes I would. Because if true, it would have to be the story of the millenium.

Oh you're definitely wrong about that. It may be circumstantial evidence, but there is: eye witness evidence - physical photographs dating back to the 19th century before there was photoshop and which are not explained away by the experts - there are paintings depicting unknown objects in the sky dating back centuries - there is video taped evidence - and last but not least there is physical radar evidence corroborating certain eye witness testimonials. 

People have been executed by the state based on circumstantial evidence and court cases in general won on the circumstantial for lack of evidence supporting the contrary. These people are entirely serious about their claims, SJ.

If you've never been to Tokyo or Kuala Lumpur, or the South Pole, then how do you know they are real places?

I couldn't have written a better reply. 

Yes,  accountability and transparency in government is what's needed here. We know this is true by observing the corrupt financial system and their muscle, NATO, and how they operate above international law. 

I don't know about you, but I tend to want to believe the many ordinary people and their evidence over that of the denialism of the most secretive governments in history and their vicious toadies in Canada, U.K., France etc. European Parliaments did acknowledge and condemn the cold war era Gladio terrorism by 1991 while the ringleader nation denied, denied, and denied some more. Yes they reacted to it.

And the U.S. Military dictatorship has told a number of lies, and each incompatible with the official lies before it about UFOs since 1947, which was also the same year that the U.S. republic was overthrown  and replaced with a militarized government with signing of the National Security Act and creation of the CIA and NSA. And our governments went on to embrace war criminals and welcomed them in to the English-speaking countries and West Germany where Himmler's SS was reconstructed to spy on our WW II allies, the Soviets for decades. 

You've identified the problem, S.J. It is an overall lack of transparancy and accountability to the public in general since at least WW II. IOWs, our democracy is a sham. What we have is an illusion of democracy and not the real McCoy by a long shot. And I want to thank you for underscoring that basic truth for us. The truth isn't out there - it's right here in this thread.

The glasnost is half full.

Slumberjack wrote:

Fidel wrote:

I don't know about you, but I tend to want to believe the many ordinary people and their evidence.... 

But I tend to disregard out of hand flying saucers, alien abductions and accounts of strange looking things with conical heads.  And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who indicates by exclusion to having no sense of the marketing gimmicks at work, that detecting the presence of an industry with its many spin offs requires a little more original imagination perhaps? 

I believe your associating the economic desperation of millions of poor and unemployed Americans and other countries nationals with that of the UFO phenomenon while interesting is somewhat meaningless to the topic at hand, S.J. There is nothing that isn't wide open to marketing in a capitalist system including the topic of discussion. So what else is new?

But what you are trying to say about the matter, that all UFO reports are marketing gimmicks for T-shirt business types etc, is called a fallacious argument and affirmation of the consequent. It's like proposing that because all dogs die, like all political hawks on the right must eventually die, then surely all political hawks on the right are dogs. We can agree with that proposition all we like, but it makes neither semantic nor logical sense. It's a meaningless statement for which there is no meaningful reply.

You seem to be in agreement with the notion that a vicious empire has lied constantly to the world public about a wide range of issues affecting global warming, and peace and prosperity in general.

And yet you are basically on side with those same lyingest liars of the century when it comes to official government lies concerning UFOs, just so you realize. And I have not concluded that you are a political hawk, because it would be a feeble attempt to use affirmation of the consequent similarly.

It would be better if I associated your extreme point of view, or that of your disbelief in UFOs period and that all eye witnesses to the UFO phenomenon world wide are deluded or insane, with that of Carl Sagan who, like you, said that extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof and say nothing of Sagan's mild criticism of Frank Drake's equation concerning a higher than Drakean likelihood that the universe and even our own galaxy is teeming with highly evolved intelligent life. And that's because I think you are mainly interested in eye-balling the hard physical proof side of things and not so interested in the meta discussion of what is considerable evidence for. And that is a valid point of view imo. And there exists a copious amount of physical evidence for debunkerists to debunk and can prolly use all the help they can get.

 We don't know what the truth is about UFOs except that the US Military Government has lied to the public concerning their own employees' and citizens' reports concerning UFOs. And the official lies that change from decade to decade can be checked against previous US Gov't lies with respect to the same sightings and eye witness reports. Who is reponsible for authorizing the re-writing of these lies, you ask? That's a good question and glad I mentioned it. And in true NSA-CIA fashion, their idea of transparency in government is to declassify official documents decades after the fact with anywhere from 10 to 90 percent of a given declassified CIA report blacked-out. S.J, what does blacking out information that is 60 years old have to do with transparency and accountability to the public? There is perhaps one eye witness to the Roswell incident still alive. And I could be wrong about that.

Meanwhile other Western world governments have come clean with the public WRT UFO reports, and most of them dating back to some specific year between 1946 and 1948 strangely enough. What do you think about that coincidence, SJ? What else do you think the US Military Gov't has locked away from public access in archives until such time as it no longer represents a threat to U.S. "national security"? 

Faster than a speeding bullet

Billy Cox wrote:

For decades, UFO researchers have bemoaned the lack of same-event footage from multiple angles. Now, from the bowels of the Careful What You Wish For Dep't., it appears as if that moment is about to arrive. It's hard to know what to say. Because there's nothing out there quite like this. ...

The bogey has the classic configuration, disc-shaped, dome on top, right out of the 1950s playbook. It appears to be metallic and solid. It criss-crosses in front of the formation before it arrives, it darts in around them, it trails the planes, it races from jet altitude all the way down to the deck in the blink of an eye, like a yo-yo.

In short, this thing zips along at speeds so fast and sick it was discovered by accident. This leaves us with myriad possibilities....

This is impossible, some scientists will say.

It's always flying saucers isn't it?  I mean, 60 years or more of alien aircraft spotting, and they're still driving saucers.  Have they reached the technological limits with their airframe design or what?  Or is it because the saucer shape represents the most practical aeronautical design devised by the aliens, up to now at least, for interstellar voyage in the vacuum of space?  You'd think that any alien civilization with the technology to make something hover and zip around at incredible speeds in our atmosphere, all without any visible sign of a propulsion system, could do the same thing with a brick shaped design.  Alas, no.  They always show up in vehicles that haven't visibly changed in shape since the days of Buck Rogers.

Slumberjack wrote:

If you were a betting man Fidel, in which scenario do you think the better odds reside?  A group of people unknown to one another captured similar images on video of the same thing, that being an alien visitation to Earth - and how convenient, at an airshow! - orrrr, a few people decided to pool together on a hoax.  Let's see what our conspiracy theory ridden minds, put to better use, tell us on this one.

Well yes it seems to me that you are the one proposing conspiracy theories now. Seven pranksters conspired to film the same speeding object from different vantage points? That shouldn't be difficult for the experts to check if they haven't already. 

And upon further analysis, the videos might even corroborate each of the others. Imagine that - seven Abraham Zapruders on-site and all filming the scene of the crime.

<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-kean/the-extraordinary-ufo-sig_b_1342585.html">Leslie Kean</a> wrote:

Has Chile found proof of something possibly extraterrestrial?

"At this time, this incident cannot be scientifically explained," Bermúdez wrote in a recent email. "As agreed by those who have studied the videos, we can affirm that there is an unidentified aerial object present. We do not know what it is or where it came from."

Hmmm? Sounds like another X file to me.

If you were a betting man Fidel, in which scenario do you think the better odds reside?  A group of people unknown to one another captured similar images on video of the same thing, that being an alien visitation to Earth - and how convenient, at an airshow! - orrrr, a few people decided to pool together on a hoax.  Let's see what our conspiracy theory ridden minds, put to better use, tells us on this one.