Sweden's reputation is on trial in Julian Assange case

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Sat, 2010-12-11 15:42

contrarianna

6079_Smith_W wrote:

But there is one missing piece here. There may indeed be nothing to this case, but the fact is that Assange's persecutors did not pull this plot out of thin air. If there were nothing to this but an innocent misunderstanding why did Ms. Ardin and the other woman not just meet and discuss it over coffee and put it down to bad behaviour? ...

The posibilities are hardly restricted to the alternatives you suggest. If the missing pieces to your question does not occur to you from your experience of human nature, reading known details of the case might be useful (the Gwynne Dyer piece posted by Unionist would be a good start).

You might also note that Anna Arden (who has now apparently relocated to the middle east) has previously appeared a little obsessed with getting revenge with cheating boyfriends, as her 7 step program published in January suggests--archived here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout...

Sat, 2010-12-11 16:06

#103

contrarianna

-=+=- wrote:

Wolf is yet another hypocrite on the progressive side in this whole affair.

In 2004, she [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2096152/]accused[/url] Yale professor Harold Bloom of "sexually encroaching" on her while she was a student there. What she accused Bloom of, and wanted Yale to address, was actually very similar to the crimes Assange has been accused (violating "sexual integrity"). Yet, now she rushes to Assange's defense.

Canadian progressives should run screaming from this whole stinking pile of Wiki****.

"very similar" only in your confused mind

Sat, 2010-12-11 16:26

#104

-=+=-

contrarianna wrote:

-=+=- wrote:

Wolf is yet another hypocrite on the progressive side in this whole affair.

In 2004, she [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2096152/]accused[/url] Yale professor Harold Bloom of "sexually encroaching" on her while she was a student there. What she accused Bloom of, and wanted Yale to address, was actually very similar to the crimes Assange has been accused (violating "sexual integrity"). Yet, now she rushes to Assange's defense.

Canadian progressives should run screaming from this whole stinking pile of Wiki****.

"very similar" only in your confused mind

Nope, similar in theory.

Both seem to create an area of sexual autonomy ("integrity" in the Swedish case) that can be violated ("encroached" in Wolf's case) by non-consensual acts on the part of the male participant.

And in practice, what played out in both cases is similar too.

In the case of Wolf, she and Bloom shared a candlelit dinner (implying some degree of a mutual consent) at the end of which he made a pass at her (which Wolf believes she did not consent to). In the case of Assange, there had already been consent, before problems arose involving condoms at which point consent appears to have been withdrawn.

The only difference really is one of degree, actual intercourse vs. unwanted touching.

(And the defenders of Assange on babble really have to do better than offer responses about "confused minds").

Sat, 2010-12-11 16:33

#105

Cueball

I am still waiting for you to get around to saying that Bell Canada is nefariously trying to bilk people of money when they mismanage their accounting and are a month late in making payments they promised.

Sat, 2010-12-11 17:19

#106

contrarianna

-=+=- wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

-=+=- wrote:

Wolf is yet another hypocrite on the progressive side in this whole affair.

In 2004, she [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2096152/]accused[/url] Yale professor Harold Bloom of "sexually encroaching" on her while she was a student there. What she accused Bloom of, and wanted Yale to address, was actually very similar to the crimes Assange has been accused (violating "sexual integrity"). Yet, now she rushes to Assange's defense.

Canadian progressives should run screaming from this whole stinking pile of Wiki****.

"very similar" only in your confused mind

Nope, similar in theory.

...

The only difference really is one of degree, actual intercourse vs. unwanted touching.

(And the defenders of Assange on babble really have to do better than offer responses about "confused minds").

Your equation of consensual sex followed up by the laying criminal charges as equal to "in theory" and "practice" to clearly unwanted sexual touching by someone with power over your academic career ( not followed by the laying of criminal charges but instead, years later, contextualizing it as a general problem of Yale)
I repeat is, at best, confused, perhaps sick--but consistent with your generally groundless smears of wikileaks.

Sat, 2010-12-11 17:39

#107

-=+=-

contrarianna wrote:

-=+=- wrote:

contrarianna wrote:

-=+=- wrote:

Wolf is yet another hypocrite on the progressive side in this whole affair.

In 2004, she [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2096152/]accused[/url] Yale professor Harold Bloom of "sexually encroaching" on her while she was a student there. What she accused Bloom of, and wanted Yale to address, was actually very similar to the crimes Assange has been accused (violating "sexual integrity"). Yet, now she rushes to Assange's defense.

Canadian progressives should run screaming from this whole stinking pile of Wiki****.

"very similar" only in your confused mind

Nope, similar in theory.

...

The only difference really is one of degree, actual intercourse vs. unwanted touching.

(And the defenders of Assange on babble really have to do better than offer responses about "confused minds").

Your equation of consensual sex followed up by the laying criminal charges as equal to "in theory" and "practice" to clearly unwanted sexual touching by someone with power over your academic career ( not followed by the laying of criminal charges but instead, years later, contextualizing it as a general problem of Yale)
I repeat is, at best, confused, perhaps sick--but consistent with your generally groundless smears of wikileaks.

All my criticisms of WikiLeaks (not turning over funds to Bradley Manning, criminal involvement in the DDoS, involvement of the vile 4chan/Anonymous movement) have been backed up with facts linked to in reputable media sources. Repeat: my criticisms have been based on facts reported in the mainstream media.

Like I said before, Progressives should be very careful about expending political capital in supporting WikiLeaks. There are many, many red flags.

You do raise an interesting point though about the power dynamic in the Wolf-Bloom case. It is probably well-established that consent in such a relationship is problematic, if not impossible to give.

Was there such a power dynamic at work in Assange sleeping with WikiLeaks supporters? Both Swedish women were volunteers in the movement, one providing an apartment for Assange to stay at, the other offering to gopher at Assange's photo op.

What exactly is the power relationship between the leader of a civil society movement and its volunteers? Is it similar in any way to the teacher-student or boss-worker relationship? Is it problematic for a volunteer to give consent to sex with the leader, in the same way that it is for a student with her/his teacher, or worker with his/her boss?

At the very least, Assange is not someone whom progressives should be supporting.

Sat, 2010-12-11 17:58

#108

Maysie

Closing for length, please start a new thread if you like.

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