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Stand up for Libby Davies - part 6
Fri, 2010-06-25 21:15
#1
Stand up for Libby Davies - part 6
Fri, 2010-06-25 21:17
#2
[url=http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=473]Dr. Michael Keefer: To Jack Layton on Libby Davies's comments[/url]
Dear Jack Layton: I'm writing to express my very serious concern over the recent attacks on your colleague Libby Davies for what she has freely acknowledged to have been a mis-statement.
Ms. Davies stated that the Israeli occupation of Palestine began in 1948, when she meant to say 1967.
Why, precisely, must this be categorized, in your own words, as "a very serious mistake"? And why did you find it necessary to go cap in hand to the Israeli ambassador to say so?
Forgive me if I have missed the appropriate news story (I have been out of the country for the past fortnight), but I am not aware that you spoke to the Israeli ambassador about the three Canadians kidnapped in international waters by Israel following that country's murderous (and, under international law, piratical) attack on the Gaza aid convoy.
I do give you credit for having spoken up on that issue in parliament.
But if you did not also contact the Israeli ambassador to express your firm disapproval of that blatant violation of international law--and the disapproval of your party and of the millions of Canadians who support it--would this not indicate that you regard Libby Davies' quickly corrected slip of the tongue as a more serious transgression than the state of Israel's kidnapping of three Canadian citizens? [...]
I very much hope that the NDP as a whole will follow Libby Davies' lead in taking an informed and principled stand on these issues.
Fri, 2010-06-25 21:33
#3
I see the baiting continues. Will check back to see if this is still allowed next week.
Sat, 2010-06-26 07:37
#4
Maysie
George please see the thread on baiting over here.
Sat, 2010-06-26 07:44
#5
I see the baiting continues. Will check back to see if this is still allowed next week.
I read the thread on baiting and conclude that you, George Victor, are either a liar or a lapdog for the NDP establishment or both.
Sat, 2010-06-26 07:53
#6
Well at least there are signs of life within the NDP regarding the Middle East. The other two main parties simply acquiesce to whatever is on Uncle Sam's colder war agenda when it comes to foreign policy. Meanwhile we have outstanding issues with apartheid right here in Canada.
Sat, 2010-06-26 07:56
#7
Maysie
mahmud, don't call George, or anyone, a liar or a lapdog. That's a personal attack and not okay.
I see this thread is off to a great start. Let's stay on topic shall we?
Sat, 2010-06-26 08:13
#8
Letter by Dr. Hannah Safran / visiting scholar, Centre for Women's and Gender Studies, UBC:
[url=http://www.straight.com/article-330414/vancouver/comments-libby-davies-h... by Libby Davies help promote peace[/url]
Silencing the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict harms the possibility-be it slim as it looks-of ever achieving a peaceful solution. Being Israeli and Jewish, I believe that without peace, the existence of the state of Israel is under dire threat indeed.
So for Ms. Davies to utter publicly the truth about what happened in 1948 might actually place her among those who work for the benefit of Israelis as much as for anyone else. Only by acknowledging the pain and suffering that the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 has inflicted on the Palestinian people can a reconciliation process start.
Sat, 2010-06-26 08:35
#9
But what about when [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/canadas-next-steps-in-afghanistan]Jack Layton[/url] talks about the need for UN leadership and diplomacy to achieve and end to organized murder in Afghanistan? Is awareness of the suffering and grinding poverty as a result of a brutal US-led military occupation not necessary in this case?
Thu, 2010-12-30 23:40
#10
Just thought I'd bump this thread so that Erik, who has been speaking truth in the Mulcair thread, can see the extent of discussion that took place this summer, which he may have missed.
And so that others can refer back to the outrage that Mulcair generated, unfortunately with Jack Layton's uncomfortable blessing.
The fact that Libby Davies puts her political work and loyalty to her party ahead of the personal onslaught and humiliation which she was subjected to is, as Erik stated in the other thread, all to her credit. Mulcair, on the contrary, didn't think or care for one second what his own pro-Israel outbursts and attacks on someone who is his better, might do to the NDP.
Thu, 2010-12-30 23:53
#11
It's been pointed out elsewhere that Libby Davies is not indulging in the hysterics trotted out here but beavering away in the real world.
And nobody has taken up the request to tell us how how they know just what she feels about the knight errants on their holier-than-thou errands. I'm willing to bet she would put it down to schoolboy immaturity, an inability to take the party's fortunes and larger objectives into account. There are other inerpretations possible of course. But only wildly speculative sentimentality will do for the moral authorities.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:01
#12
George, one day you will learn to discuss a topic without spewing insults and venom against the other participants in a discussion. Perhaps the New Year will hasten that day.
In the meantime, I just wanted to point out the immense moral and political courage of Libby Davies and her superiority to the likes of Mulcair.
If the party had any spine, its next leader would be someone like Libby. And no, I don't particularly care what she thinks of that. You see, I actually generate my own ideas and opinions.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:15
#13
Should we all hold our breath waiting for you to cease baitng, passive agressive attacks on other babblers and thinly vieled personal attacks too?
Thought not.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:24
#14
Life, I'm going to say this publicly. I tried to send you a PM (which the system won't accept) to make up with you and express my appreciation for your posts, and call a truce. When that didn't work, I posted that publicly. I meant it. I will not attack you. Just consider, maybe, trying the same, please.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:30
#15
Unionist, it's the system itself which has no spine and no soul. Our electoral system is absurd, and so is holding our collective breath waiting for a political party that is 100 times better than the current stoogeaucracy. Why not settle for the NDP. They are just 50 times better, we know. But nothing in nature is perfect.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:31
#16
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/libby-davis-forced-apologi... excellent post from the original discussion in June:[/url]
I have to think there is a little bit of really unsettling politics going on here too. Muclair's over the top attack on Davies seems like the first shot in the leadership campaign to come at some undetermined point down the road. The comments are pretty low.
I don't really have a problem with Layton's comments. It was a mistake, if an inadvertant one, and Davies has taken the needed steps towards rectifying that. I know those who don't like the NDP will use this in their typical line of attack, but both Layton AND Davies seem to have BOTH realized that Davies made a mistake in how she framed her answer to one question. Seems to me that they worked together to fix it. I doubt we will see any reduction of Davies' role in caucus. (I hope I am not wrong on that)
As for calling for a boycott and so on, Davies speaks for a lot of NDP activists and NDP non-member voters like me on that issue, and if anyone is out of step with NDP membership it is Muclair.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:44
#17
In If the party had any spine, its next leader would be someone like Libby. And no, I don't particularly care what she thinks of that. You see, I actually generate my own ideas and opinions.
You sure do. Like [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/afghan-peopl... one[/url] in another thread about basic human rights in Afghanistan being none of the NDP's business:
Yes, Fidel, in countries where you and other "basic human rights" lovers don't belong - namely, other people's countries. If they want "right wing extremists" in charge, guess what, try and stop them. Especially in Afghanistan!
Are you naturally full of baloney, or does it take practice? I find you have more political positions than the Kama Sutra has Twister poses.
Fri, 2010-12-31 00:48
#18
In If the party had any spine, its next leader would be someone like Libby. And no, I don't particularly care what she thinks of that. You see, I actually generate my own ideas and opinions.[...]
Are you naturally full of baloney, or does it take practice? I find you have more political positions than the Kama Sutra has Twister poses.
Not sure I follow you, Fidel. Are you saying you prefer Mulcair as leader to Libby? or Karzai? Or questioning whether I keep kosher when shopping for processed meats??
Happy New Year, my old friend. No matter how hard you try, you will never be on the wrong side of history.
Fri, 2010-12-31 01:24
#19
Not sure I follow you, Fidel.
Pick a lane and drive.
Fri, 2010-12-31 02:23
#20
Thank you Unionist, I saw some of it before but I see positions have only hardened. I have to be up early tomorrow but I'm going to start another thread on this problem of consciously ganging up, baiting others and derailing threads tomorrow evening, or shortly thereafter perhaps, as this problem has only gotten worse here and the lack of activity now shows it. The utter lack of respect shown toward the board and others by certain partisans who seem to assume that they and only they speak for the left has to be addressed here IMO. This is supposed to be a place where leftists of ALL stripes can speak up, not a place where they are to be shut DOWN because of someone or anothers electoral ambitions. Ya, thats right, my time away and similar experience elsewhere has only made me less apologetic than before. I'll leave this thread now for more on the subject, if it's allowed.
Fri, 2010-12-31 05:47
#21
"Positions have hardened." ?
Position [singular] hardened a long time ago. And hasnt changed. That being that much of Babble was and is incensed about what happened to Libby.
Terminaly incensed. And "standing up for Libby" whether she wants it or not. You dont really care whether she does.
I'm sure Libby Davies appreciates the sentiment behind your support. And people will "stand up" for here whether she ever says a word or not. So she'd be much too gracious to dissapoint you.
Fri, 2010-12-31 06:11
#22
The utter lack of respect shown toward the board and others by certain partisans who seem to assume that they and only they speak for the left has to be addressed here IMO. This is supposed to be a place where leftists of ALL stripes can speak up, not a place where they are to be shut DOWN because of someone or anothers electoral ambitions.
Wonderland.
This is truly sad.
While I do not bait you. If there is an attempt to shout down, then I would have to be chief culprit. Or close to it.
Show me where I have ever presumed to speak for the left.
What I do insist on is that I am not going to be excluded as less worthy. And right now at least, I'll not see others excluded either, who both deserve respect as equally worthy progressives... and should get it for practical reasons of the health of movements for social change.
Do I ever talk about some people being enemies and traitors?
Do I ever say or intimate that what people do who are not engaged in electoral politics is less worthy? The way you just sneered at people who are "only interested in electoral ambitions." Which you did so casually because that being all we partsans are interested in- or mostly what we are in it for- is taken as received wisdom around here.
"I'm not sneering at you. I'm just making an observation."
"Its just my opinion. And you have your opinion."
Well my opinion doesnt sneer at what anyone does. Your opinion does sneer at what I do with [part of] my time.
Fri, 2010-12-31 06:23
#23
Dippers who are engaged at babble have a consensus that electoral politics, or not, is a "we all do different things" affair. [Which as expressed as if its two different sorts doing one or the other, even though most of us do both, and many like myself do less of the electoral stuff.]
There is a noisy element in babble, and in numbers a substantial group, who pay lip service to the same words. but are driven to trash the doing and practice of electoral politics on a constant basis.
It is claimed that this is just natural and in the course of criticism and discussion. But if it was about criticism, criticism would be made, people agree to disagree, and then move on. From the recalcitrants of bable moving on is always just temporary.
So that if someone makes the mistake of praising that dog Mulcair, and not dropping it quick, then his sins are sure to be dragged out, and lets talk some more about how the truth was never accepted.
Fri, 2010-12-31 07:16
#24
Back in June, in post # 6, Maysie raised some doubts about this thread. She was right. It's just a vehichle for people attacking eachother. Closing for both duplication and general lack of merit.