+_+
Democratic Congresswoman Clings to Life in Arizona ( Part 2)
Sun, 2011-01-09 05:45
#1
Democratic Congresswoman Clings to Life in Arizona ( Part 2)
Sun, 2011-01-09 05:49
#2
Olbermann: Violence and threats have no place in democracy
The political rhetoric of the country must be changed to prevent acts of domestic terrorism
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40981503/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_ol...
Sun, 2011-01-09 05:50
#3
Thanks Maysie.
Christina-Taylor Green, September 11, 2001-January 9, 2011
Loved baseball, horseback riding, swimming and politics
9-year-old victim of deadly rampage identified
http://www.kvoa.com/news/9-year-old-victim-of-deadly-rampage-identified/
Sun, 2011-01-09 05:55
#4
VIDEO: 'Arizona
Has Become the Capital'
"We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
- Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik
Sun, 2011-01-09 06:30
#5
Remember that right now there are thousands of bloggers in the US extolling in calm language the legitimacy of assasinating 'threats to our freedom'. And recognizing that this killer may not be 'one of ours'. And how one of ours wouldn't have killed a 9 year old girl. Etc.
Empowered by their public leaders, who will stop at absolutley nothing to sabotage government and the social safety net. Where things that even 5 years ago no one would conceive of doing in legislatures, are now just fine and dandy.
The audacity and brazeness and self-righteousness it takes to calmly discuss killing members of Congress. Then you really know that these people will stop at nothing. Even the ones that say killing them goes too far.
Sun, 2011-01-09 07:07
#6
I don't recollect hearing any comments by Harper about this incident.
Sun, 2011-01-09 07:50
#7
Now that pundits like this are being given a platform in an attempt to make them appear mainstream in Canada, I have concerns about what is eventually going to be coming down the pipes in Canada as well. We need to demand that our journalists stop demonizing our politicians, and stop degrading our democratic institutions, and be very vigilant about it.
C'mon Steve, nix the handouts
Harper's election promises should include abolishing tax 'donations' to political parties
It's not surprising, considering the low esteem in which most Canadians hold politicians
http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/ezra_levant/2011/01/07/16804...
Sun, 2011-01-09 08:12
#8
Regarding Giffords' condition, the danger is swelling in the brain. She is unconscious.
Sun, 2011-01-09 10:55
#9
I found this a bit interesting
Fidel Castro also denounced the attack as atrocious. "Even those of us who don't share at all the politics and philosophies (of the Obama administration) sincerely desire that no children, judges, legislators or citizens of the United States die in such an absurd and unjustifiable way," Castro said in an opinion piece titled "An Atrocious Act," published in Cuban state-controlled media.
and this profoundly disturbing
During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
from here
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/918715--giffords-still-in-crit...
Sun, 2011-01-09 12:03
#10
I don't recollect hearing any comments by Harper about this incident.
As I said in the last thread, I think Harper's attempts to brand Bloc representatives as illegimate, and his insistence that other parties cannot work with them because they are "separatists" is a milder form of the same anti-democratic rhetoric in the U.S.
And there are a few journalists - Andrew Coyne most vocally - who have fallen for that line as well.
I know our democracy is broken and heavily manipulated, you can hold the posts about my being a fool to think that democracy works.
My point is that the way to fix it is not to pretend that politicians don't represent their constituents simply because you don't agree with their policies, and that it is right to refuse to deal with them, or do whatever is necessary to remove them from office. Until we have a better system, they do represent their constituents, like it or not.
An attack on a public figure (politician, community leader, journalist, etc.) is not just an attack on a person but an attack on the eyes, ears, and will of the public. Regardless of whether we agree with that person it is something which harms all of us, in part because it threatens anyone who might want to take that person's place.
And bringing those tactics into play also threatens anyone who might want to stand up in public and challenge those politicians.
Again, as I said a few times, I don't assume the suspect was motivated directly by the Tea Party; how can we know that? But regardless of what may have motivated him, their rhetoric of violence and non-compromise is probably the strongest example of that partisan, anti-democratic trend.
It may not be as strong, nor as graphic here in Canada, but we have it as well.
(edit, much later)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2011/01/judging-from-...
Sun, 2011-01-09 12:42
#11
Regarding Giffords' condition, the danger is swelling in the brain. She is unconscious.
They can treat that, giving drugs to reduce the swelling.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/247664-overview
Easy access to guns + psychosis + uneven access to health care = enormous potential for tragedy.
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:02
#12
We have seen the same polarization in the last 5 years. It the exact thing that not only got Harper elected but keeps him afloat at 30% in the polls. look in the mirror canada because we aren't that far off.
It remind me of the story about trudeau having supper with his kids while Joe Clark was in the same dinning room. One of the kids called Joe a bad man(or something like that) Trudeau replied that he isn't a bad man, just someone with a different point of view and he should still be respected. That is clearly not the case when it coms to how the conservatives treat all opposition members currently.
Its republic party canada. There are no tories left. The moderation they once had is pretty much gone along with the PC brand. Thanks again loser MacKay
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:20
#13
V
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:20
#14
Bec.De.Corbin
The US House has postponed its vote to appeal Obama's health care bill, one of the issues Gifford had been attacked on during her election.
How quaint of them. I guess the Republicans don't want the stigma of this shooting hanging over their attempt to remove from law what she fought for (and has now paid dearly for).
On a side note: Some people are talking about stricter gun control laws (again). A waste of time if you ask me but perhaps becouse one of thier own was shot Congress might act now: problum is the gun jinni is already out of the bottle in the USA and you won't be able to put it back in. Only law abiding citizens would conform to the new laws, criminals and nut cases (like this guy?) will still have access to guns.
(I know most here are Canadian so just so you understand: most all gun control laws in the USA are STATE laws, not FEDERAL and each state controls its own gun laws. A wide sweeping federal gun law would be considered by most states as the overstepping of states rights and would meet strong resistance by the states.)
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:46
#15
alan smithee
The saturation of fanatical far right media is what's inciting the current climate in the States.
Like an aggresive cancer,this lunatic right wing extremism will spread through Canada--if it already hasn't.
The fact that Harper hasn't commented is perhaps because he's licking his lips in excitement that the far right neo-fascist extremist wing of the neocon agenda is coming to fruition.
The reality is if you are so bent out of shape because you feel that your government is screwing you deep and hard,the target SHOULD be on the backs of the corporate conservatives.
24 hour a day far right propaganda machines that rule all media in the United States are to blame for this.
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:49
#16
Bec.De.Corbin
No I doubt this was "random maddness". Like I've said before I think he was "used" by other people. Only time will tell; I could be wrong. Also I'm not saying the heath care issue was the main motive, it was just one of the many issues that could have set this guys off or motivated his handlers (if that was the case).
Just found out at a press conference a women who was already shot grabbed the ammo clip when the guy tried to reload his pistol. Two men then wrestled him to the ground.
Sun, 2011-01-09 13:56
#17
@ Bec de Corbin #12
Yes, but their federal government, specifically the Supreme Court, has played a strong role in holding back many attempts at limiting gun "freedom".
Strangely enough, those on the right don't see that as interference in local autonomy
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2000454,00.html
Sun, 2011-01-09 14:07
#18
Cueball
Having read through the very disturbed ramblings about "dreamers", "listeners" and "new currency" that the presumed shooter said on his youtube account online, I find it highly doubtful that there is a clear and logical deducible connection between Gifford's views on health care (or anything much in particular) and the shooting, outside of general angst and a sense of betrayal that seems prevalent in American society these days.
Sun, 2011-01-09 14:30
#19
Bec.De.Corbin
Yes, good point. But this is an example of the gun control law flowing “up” if you will from the states. I guess what I was trying to say was that any gun control laws flowing down form the federal system would be met with serious resistance. Also the Court in this case was focused on a narrow part of those state laws.@ Bec de Corbin #12
Yes, but their federal government, specifically the Supreme Court, has played a strong role in holding back many attempts at limiting gun "freedom".
Strangely enough, those on the right don't see that as interference in local autonomy
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2000454,00.html
In both the Chicago and D.C. cases, the Supreme Court focused narrowly on people's rights to use guns to protect themselves in their own homes. The court emphasized that it was not casting doubt on many kinds of gun regulations — including prohibitions on gun possession by felons and the mentally ill, laws keeping guns away from schools and government buildings and laws imposing restrictions like waiting periods on the sale of guns.
Sun, 2011-01-09 14:34
#20
Cueball
The whole gun control issue is completely unmanageable in law. What is not unmanagable in law is limiting manufacture of weapons, the only real solution to the gun pandemic in the USA. But that is simply an ideological no-go zone in the US because there is so much profit to be made from slaughter, and profit is sacrosanct.
Sun, 2011-01-09 15:02
#21
NDPPThe fact that Harper hasn't commented is perhaps because he's licking his lips in excitement that the far right neo-fascist extremist wing of the neocon agenda is coming to fruition.
Could be...
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Controversial+anti-Islamist+group...
Sun, 2011-01-09 15:04
#22
What a disgraceful and hypocritical country the US and it's media has become....I am supposed to be surprised or even shocked that an American shot a politician and killed a child as collateral damage...shit they do this on a practically daily basis all around the world...and yeah they kill babies too. Oh the shock! Only americans lives have value...sorry don't buy it and never will.
I think the frenzy really is how a palin ad with obvious gunsight images on democratic candidates has encouraged assassination and that is the real right wing neocon showing their true divide and conquer colors and Canada isn't far behind...with flanagen calling for assassination of the wiki leaks fellow on national tv complete with smart ass chuckle and all the divisiveness of the Harper conservatives...Hey Taliban Jack what are twisted neocons gonna do about you...this is the right wing way...is Canada opening up there arms for an American style tea party?
Either way the US is heading towards civil war...yep it's coming and presently it's being suppressed by the MSM for obvious reasons... Canada's tied to the "umbilical cord economy" will go down the tubes and Canadians will have themselves to blame....actually I think it is now too late for Canada..the geezers of Canada spoke while the rest just played donkey kong and for that we will all pay...collateral damage if you will.
Sun, 2011-01-09 15:32
#23
The whole gun control issue is completely unmanageable in law. What is not unmanagable in law is limiting manufacture of weapons, the only real solution to the gun pandemic in the USA. But that is simply an ideological no-go zone in the US because there is so much profit to be made from slaughter, and profit is sacrosanct.
Halting gun production by prohibition is as equally unworkable as the war on drug production has been. Even if you shut down the Smith & Wessons, Sturm Rugers and every other legitimate arms factory in America--and then worry how the police and military are going to somehow get arms--illegal players will step in the market. In Waziristan, people with limited literacy and technical skills crank out everything from AK-47 knockoffs to RPGs. This is with antiquated and homebrew tools, in 'factories' with dirt floors. Modern CNC equipment, in the financial realm of any wannabe arms dealer in North America, makes this even easier. A good point-of-departure is the Sten gun, which was specifically designed for makeshift production, and is a full-auto weapon. And ammo is even easier to make. A trip through a junkyard nets you enough wheelweights for all the bullets and lead styphnate you'll need for ammo, brass, aluminum, or even plastic tubing can be used for cartridges, and propellant is easy enough to cook--easier than cooking meth. Anyone with basic machinist skills and high-school stoichiometry can make both guns and ammo with confidence.
And don't forget about offshore suppliers, like Norinco (North China Industries), which makes products ranging from perfect knockoffs of 1911s and Sigs, to AK-47s and Macs. Thousands of Norinco products arrive in Canada and the U.S. (they are actually a banned import in the States), through our sieve-like ports and customs security. Johnny 'Sidewinder' Chretien helped this along, by disbanding the Ports Police ("too costly," he said--not like the Gun Registry?). This is why full-auto weapons, which are illegal in most of the U.S. and prohibited in Canada since 1977, keep showing up in gang firefights. Norinco products also find their way onto reservations, like Hobema, as easilly as contraband cigarettes find their way out. Tragedy has resulted in this, like a little girl shot on Hobema in a gang drive-by.
I'm constantly amazed that otherwise intelligent people, who grasp the reality that drug prohibition is impossible to enforce, cling to the fallacy that weapons production can somehow be legislated out of existence. And supposedly pro-labour progressives also don't like to admit that legitimate firearms manufacture provides workers with real jobs, in Canada and the U.S. When ex-Mayor Miller banned firearms manufacture in his fiefdom, Para-Ord left town for the U.S., throwing dozens out of work. And I'm sure the AFL-CIO, United Mineworkers and other unions love your idea of gutting their jobs, so that foreign companies like Norinco, along with thousands of illegal, gang-run backyard manufacturers, can take over their jobs.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:21
#24
alan smithee
@NoDifference..
That arcticle is putrifyingly disturbing....Fat chance Jason Kenney will prohibit them from crossing into our border..Who am I kidding,the Tories probably are funding their trip.
About the Tea Party and their twisted and demented logic....Let's take a look at some of the key points of their manifesto.
1) They are murderously against health care reform..They think a public option is socialism and are outraged that the government wants to threaten the huge insurance lobby and their corporate bottom line.
2) They are AGAINST corporate regulation...They are outraged by the idea of government holding corporations accountable...These are the same people who were apologizing to BP over the oil spill disaster.
3) They re-elected the exact government that got their country in the financial hell their living in...A government that makes no secret about cutting their EI (!!) while cutting taxes to the richest Americans in which the lion's share of the Tea Party are not.
You listen to the Tea Party gods such as Limbaugh,Beck and O'Reilley who equate distribution of wealth and social justice as a reason to cling to their bibles and arm themselves to the teeth.
That's the insanity of it all...The 24 hour propaganda machine has programmed the very people who suffer and will continue to suffer from the corporate fascist policies their nut wing conservative overlords hold dear to their self serving hearts.
The fact that Canada is on that same road is very disturbing....And this is the only reason I believe that the Harpercons must be defeated by any and all costs.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:27
#25
Cueball
And I am amazed that some "otherwise intelligent" people are completely blind to the fact that production for military purposes is the primary cause of the illegal gun trade with billion of dollars of military equipment earmarked for use by the authorities ending up on the black market to be purchased by those who are need the weapons to defend themselves from the law enforcement officials, who justify their need for more weapons in order to fight the thugs they armed and sometimes even trained.
One merely has to look at the evidence against Blackwater and their Iraqi gun running operation, or the Mexican Zeta Cartel to find law enforcement and military personnel plying both sides of game for an handsome profit.
Example: Brazil 'police gun-running gang' busted:
Around 200 officers swooped into the Duque de Caxias area and arrested at least 20 alleged gang members, 13 of whom are policemen.The gang is one of many originally formed to combat drug traffickers.
But police say these "militias" often end up running criminal enterprises.
That is just the tip of the iceberg brother. There is not any need to let ones idealistic sentiments cloud ones intellectual faculties.
Some clown in Pakistan making home made knock-off's of Ak-47 is no big deal.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:28
#26
I've tried to alert people to an obvious overthetop item concerning the deaths of the Kennedy brothers on local talkradio. In light of shooting of Rep. Gifford, the constant mocking of the Kennedys and other libleft persons by talkradio hosts should be recognised as terrorism. Oakley, Stafford, Adler, Bynon, Agar, Richards (and the bigshots at CFRB and AM640) all like to remind listeners that THEY WON the mayor race for Ford- by lying and so on. Yet no one seems to notice them. Does anyone else in Toronto listen to hate radio? A fairly simple person I know blames ALL that's bad he hears about on ...unions and greedy leftwing pols! He hears it on call-in radio. (btw, I posted about this earlier)
This is the story. On Dec 17, at about 11 40 AM on Toronto radio station CFRB, host Jerry Agar and a 'Karen Gordon' were mocking Ted Kennedy and how his family's PR and monetary skills saved his otherwise ruined reputation from its deserved fate when someone joked 'Two splats and a splash' in reference to the deaths of Ted's older brothers. Much hilarity ensued, with Agar and Gordon laughing aloud at the thought of the shooting deaths of President and Senator Kennedy (the 'splats') and the WW2 crash of Joe Junior's plane into the sea (the 'splash'). While public expressions of vile rightwing sentiments are typical all the time on talk radio, surely this killer culture of ours hasn't gotten so sick it jokes about the murder of elected officials; but even given that it has, for the rightwing to scorn a family's loss of their eldest son in wartime exposes its very highly publicized Don Cherry type patriotism as phony! A complaint was sent to the CRTC; but as few listen to CFRB even at busiest time of day, it appears; perhaps we should all overlook the little gaffe (the joke was, after all, very funny to nazis and rightwing skinheads etc) and hope for the best? "This is the urgency of truth! That in its absence form myths, with the power to shape the past, cleanse the conscious and transform the innocent into the guilty." The Kennedy family is guilty- their sacrifice and suffering loss now jokes on the public airwaves.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:28
#27
In Waziristan, people with limited literacy and technical skills crank out everything from AK-47 knockoffs to RPGs. This is with antiquated and homebrew tools, in 'factories' with dirt floors.
I think they might have re-loading equipment for bullets to fit whatever rifles they obtained since the 1980s. Bullets then were said to be costing US taxpayers $5 bucks apiece. But the guns today are coming in from around the world. The funding for the weapons, the Ak-47s, and more expensive armor-piercing Ak-74s etc is flowing in from around the world and much of it financed by illicit drugs. The US CIA admitted to propping-up Afghan drug lords and the most ruthless of war lords in the 1980s. The same thing is happening today and madrassa system continues to be funded by the west to the tune of many millions of dollars every year. But I don't believe that the average Afghan or Pakistani has the means to setup munitions factories and factories for assembling rifles. The average Afghan can not afford to buy from the gun runners.
I'm constantly amazed that otherwise intelligent people, who grasp the reality that drug prohibition is impossible to enforce, cling to the fallacy that weapons production can somehow be legislated out of existence.
The illicit drug economy exists today because powers that be encourage it and even profit by it themselves. Just as the Brits and Japanese used opium to undermine and subjugate millions of people in China, the US and Brits today are using opium trade to undermine and subjugate hundreds of millions in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Russia, and attempting to export drugs and religious fundamentalism to parts of China as well. It's a long war.
If the economy was created around people and their needs, these jobs could be replaced very easily. It's a matter of retooling from a war economy on a permanent war and conflict footing, and one where high paid lobbyists command more of the government's attention than we the people, to that of a peace time one designed around the needs of the vast majority of people.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:41
#28
Cueball
Oh well. That said, I think the "splash" refers to Chappequididck, not Joe Jr.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:50
#29
alan smithee
Thanks clandestiny...I couldn't have said it better.
I've been talking about this for years but most people laugh it off saying that people tune in to hear what stupid thing they'll say next.
This is a HUGE problem...The media,even though it does not influence what I think or what I buy,clearly influences alot of people.
A responsible broadcaster would have shows and personalities with an opposing view....A responsible broadcaster would IMMEDIATELY FIRE anyone advocating hate on its airwaves,.
It's become obvious that this kind of hateful,fascist and dangerous rhetoric is exactly what the powers that be want saturating the media to influence those who buy anything they see or hear from it.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:51
#30
Cueball
At this point 90% of the evidence points to that conclusion. Though Palin among others can be accused of ramping up political tensions, in an already volatile climate. There is no reason not to conclude that the overall environment has an impact on mentally unstable people.
It's very sad about the little girl.
Sun, 2011-01-09 16:54
#31
Maybe the shooting has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, maybe the gun shooter is mentally ill. Mentally ill people go untreated all the time.
I am reminded of the quote from Angelina Jolie: You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens
There are plenty of guns in America, and plenty of unemployed young men, shit happens. There is no reason to make a big political hay out of this incident.
The dude that killed John Lennon didnt hate hippies, he was just mentally ill. I dont see why we need to even blame it on Sarah Palin or Fox News, the mainstream media is hysterical all the time, there are breaking news every hour, and many people are marginalized and isolated from the outside world due to mental/social/economic factors, sometimes one of them end up killing someone important and famous. Shit happens.
The fact that so many are so fast to blame this incident on Right Wing Tea partiers actually just demonstrate the toxic political environment we are living in. I have to laugh when somebody says this is an attack on our political institutions, how many people really have faith in our political insitutiions? They have never done nothing for me and many others , when somebody says OMIGOD, our political institution and our democracy as we know it are in DANGER! my cynical response is who gives a fuck.
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:05
#32
Maybe the shooting has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, maybe the gun shooter is mentally ill. Mentally ill people go untreated all the time.
And maybe years later someone will point out that more bullets were fired than could have come from his gun as was the case of Sirhan Sirhan and bullets fired in the pantry of the Ambassador Hotel. Maybe this shooter had accomplices who will never be identified or linked to their paymasters. Maybe this shooter believed he was acting alone for the job and didn't realize he was part of a conspiracy to commit murder. Maybe he is just another [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Parallax_View#Plot]Joe Frady[/url] recruited off the street.
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:19
#33
N.Beltov
The dude that killed John Lennon didnt hate hippies, he was just mentally ill.
That "dude" was also a Christian fundamentalist who hated atheists ... like John Lennon. Why should assassinations have no cause when most everything else does? Have an open mind, by all means, but don't let your brain fall out because of that "openness".
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:22
#34
I'll bet it will come out later that the shooter was on anti depressants and either didn't take one that day or ran out...seems to be the hallmark of the mentalist shooter.....but usually they end up killing themselves too.
With the way our country cow tows to the US drug industry/cartel when it comes to these dangerous anti depressants it shouldn't surprise anyone when these type of psycho incidents happen here...at least it wouldn't surprise me. Makes a good study too , finding out how many of these crazy shootings have the seretonin uptake inhibitor link to them...just mesmerizing .
Mix in a little political hate and a gun with a little prozac, or paxil, or effexor, or gabopentin or ____ (fill in the blank) with an emotionally charged person and what do you get?
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:33
#35
alan smithee
Anyone want to make a bet that this gunman (kid) was an avid Faux News viewer?
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:34
#36
I know what its like to miss a day of taking anti depressant pills, its an awful feeling. Pharmaceutical drugs cost a lot of money too, so its easy for someone to just stop taking them due to stress, or what not.
Most people seem to also ignore and exclude mentally ill people. Its not a suprise if someone keeps to themselves about their "mental condition" , who wants to be excluded, and rejected ..um especially when you cant get no job and go nowhere without at least appearing sane.
My own bias experience tell me that if mental health is considered a serious issue that people should not be afraid to talk about in public, and that it wont cost someone a job opportunity or what not, than we would see less "crazy incidents".
Religious fundamentalism and mental instability often go hand in hand. I often meet people on the bus or on the sidewalk who talk about Jesus and some of them seem very unstable.
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:35
#37
David Frum finds the real culprit:
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:38
#38
The dude that killed John Lennon didnt hate hippies, he was just mentally ill.That "dude" was also a Christian fundamentalist who hated atheists ... like John Lennon.
He & some of his Born Again friends had a little ditty they liked to sing:"Imagine John Lennon Dead"
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:39
#39
Did someone mention drug-induced altered states of mind? Politically motivated? It's highly possible. [url=http://nsarchive.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/project-artichoke-22-januar... memorandum on 'Artichoke' 1954[/color](pdf)[/url]
A R T I C H O K E1. The ARTICHOKE Team visited [redacted] during period 8 January to 15 January 1954. The purpose of the visit was to give an evaluation of a hypothetical problem, namely: Can an individual of ****** descent be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily under the influence of ARTICHOKE?
2. PROBLEM:
a. The essential elements of the problem are as follows:
(1) As a “trigger mechanism” for a bigger project, it was proposed that an individual of ****** descent approximately 35 years old, well educated, proficient in English and well established socially and politically in the ****** Government be induced under ARTICHOKE to perform an act, involuntarily, of attempted assassination against a prominent ****** politician [color=red]or if necesssary, against an American official.[/color] The SUBJECT was formerly in [redacted] employ but has since terminated and is now employed with the *** Government. According to all available information, the SUBJECT would offer no further cooperation with [redacted.] Access to the SUBJECT would be extremely limited, probably limited to a single social meeting[...]
"or if necessary"?
Sun, 2011-01-09 17:46
#40
alan smithee
Hey,if you can't blame terrorism...Blame the other boogeyman--POT.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:06
#41
Interesting development: there's a 2nd "person of interest" in the case:
http://pimasheriff.org/files/9912/9456/4787/Attempt_to_Identify.pdf
Edited: turns out that guy was the cab driver who brought the shooter to the scene; he's been exonerated. So the shooter did act alone.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:17
#42
From David Frum's site:
The connection between marijuana and schizophrenia is both controversial and complicated. The raw association is strong:
- Schizophrenics are twice as likely to smoke marijuana as non-schizophrenics.
- People who smoke marijuana are twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as those who do not smoke.
But is correlation causation?
Increasingly experts seem to be saying: “Yes.”
Um, no David; the answer is no. I've studied the association between schizophrenia & cannabis, and it's based on observational data. Regardless of what conclusions "experts" with an unknown political agenda may reach, the data are murky at best. And no psychosis has arisen in the course of a randomized controlled trial of cannabis for pain. (You might find writers who say otherwise, but I actually tracked down the original data and found that not to be the case.)
In the medical literature, the benefits of cannabis are downplayed while its risks are exaggerated. We really don't know whether the increased incidence of schizophrenia amongst cannabis users is in fact self-medication. For instance, among patients with bipolar disorder, the risk of a co-existing drug/alcohol abuse problem is high, about 2/3 of patients. But we don't go around saying that drug/alcohol abuse causes bipolar disorder the way some folks go around saying that a (much much weaker) link between schizophrenia and cannabis use must indicate causation.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:25
#43
Some clown in Pakistan making home made knock-off's of Ak-47 is no big deal.
But I don't believe that the average Afghan or Pakistani has the means to setup munitions factories and factories for assembling rifles.
My point is that anyone with a modicum of mechanical skill, plans and recipes can make all the weapons, including full-auto ones, they want. There are thousands of backyard arms factories in Waziristan, may of which sprung up during the anti-Soviet Mujahedin insurgency. These make cheap AK-47s, SKSs and Lee Enfields by the thousands, ammunition and even very destructive weapons like RPGs. This is done with oldschool lathes and hand tools, by people with no formal training. Guns are not very sophisticated things and ammunition is less involved to manufacture than drugs like crystal meth. As I mentioned, CNC machining equipment is now very cheap and can crank out perfect copies of any metal-framed gun you desire. The Sten Gun is a great example of a battle-proven full-auto weapon that lends itself to quick 'n' dirty manufacture. And it's impossible to control the precursor chemicals used to make primers and propellants. If you're so inclined, you can find plans for various firearms on the internet, along with primer and powder recipes.
Drug prohibition has been a complete and utter failiure...and so has gun control. And keep in mind that little in the way of either drug, or gun controls existed until the early 20th Century, without ill effect for anything other than bloated law enforcement budgets, or economic opportunities for organised crime. People have also gotten to the effete point that they can't believe things can be made with one's own brain and hands--be it guns and ammo, or recreational drugs. Banning the legal manufacture and import of guns would only be a minor inconvenience for gangs (or the occasional nutjob who wants a gun), in the same maner that banning amphetamine ads in magazines was. Drugs, weapons, prostitution and other things will never go away, regardless of all the attempted social engineering by the right and progressives alike.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:26
#44
Oh? And, of course, there is always a letter of confession left behind for the sake of circumstantial evidence.
[url=http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0111/On_the_memo.html]The federal complaint[/url] filed against Loughner Sunday indicates evidence that Loughner targeted Giffords specifically for assassination. It states that investigators found a safe belonging to Loughner in his home that included an envelope with handwriting saying "I planned ahead," "my assassination," and "Giffords," and signed by Loughner. It also found a letter from Giffords' office, dated August 30, 2007, thanking Loughner for coming to a 2007 "Congress on your Corner" event in Tucson.
Typical. It's the old, leave behind a letter of confession and other incriminating circumstantial evidence in a locked safe at home trick.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:38
#45
People have also gotten to the effete point that they can't believe things can be made with one's own brain and hands--be it guns and ammo
In some countries it's easier to grow poppies and use the proceeds to buy mass produced guns and ammo, RPGs, and even battery packs for refurbishing old US-made stinger missiles from the 1980s. Gun smiths were popular trades in the past before the idea of interchangeable parts and mass production.
...or recreational drugs.
I've watched Breaking Bad on TV. You need a proper lab and expert knowledge of chemistry to be any good at it. Oh, and connections with drug mafia if you want a share of the market would be a good idea.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:48
#46
Hey,if you can't blame terrorism...Blame the other boogeyman--POT.
Who somebody should be blaming are the Congressperson's security detail, as well as the local police. This was an epic security failiure, comparable to Chuck and Camilla being attacked by those protesters. It's truly amazing that nobody put a bullet in that wacko, especially considering the fact that police were part of the entourage. Considering the fact that she'd received death threats in the past, security should have been heightened around Giffords. Loughner apparently ran out of ammo, before bystanders (not police) tackled him. I'm not too much of a conspiracy theorist, but something stinks here.
The alleged shooter was really a few bricks short of a load: a fan of both Hitler and Marx, rabidly White Supremacist...and obsessed with grammar. Crazies come and go, and always find the means to try and kill people, but security and police forces are supposed to be there to prevent these incidents. So why didn't they do their job, here? And why is the Sheriff so quick in blaming his constituents' (Sheriffs are elected in Arizona) "prejudice and bigotry," rather than the gross failiure of his department to protect the public, including two Federal officials from what appears to be a single assailant? I smell rank politicking, here.
Sun, 2011-01-09 18:52
#47
They're a nation of patsies. And that's just the way the people running things prefer them to be.
Sun, 2011-01-09 19:05
#48
It's clear now, if it wasn't before, that the shooter was after Giffords.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting.investigation/
Sun, 2011-01-09 19:06
#49
Here's a good point... http://www.slate.com/id/2280616/pagenum/all/#p2 "Any call to cool "inflammatory" speech is a call to police all speech, and I can't think of anybody in government, politics, business, or the press that I would trust with that power."
Sun, 2011-01-09 19:10
#50
I disagree. We can have hate laws to help put a lid on some of the excessive rhetoric.
Sun, 2011-01-09 19:24
#51
Mmmm, I love the attacks on 'crazies' and such. The internet is just crawling with suppositions of mental illness regarding this man. Unhinged, psycho, crazy...
How about just plain old angry or disgruntled? Lots of 'sane' people are angry and do horrible things.