BC NDP Leadership Election Part II

Dix at least seems to be on track in focusing his attacks on the BC Liberals. James doesn't seem capable of missing an opportunity to attack NDP supporters and members she personally disapproves of.

Quote:

Carole James won't back an individual candidate in the race to elect her successor, but says she has no use for three of the would-be leaders.
Ms. James said Friday she was glad some serious candidates - MLAs John Horgan and Mike Farnworth - entered the NDP leadership race this week.
 
She admitted her negative comments were aimed at MLAs Harry Lali and Nicholas Simons - two of the so-called Baker's Dozen of 13 MLAs whose criticisms prompted her resignation last month - and marijuana activist Dana Larsen.
Mr. Horgan and Mr. Farnworth backed Ms. James.
"I do have to say that I was pleased this week to see some serious candidates step up to the plate," Ms. James said.
She said the party needs candidates who can show the NDP is a credible alternative to the provincial Liberal government with a balanced, committed approach to growing the economy and building a fair and just society.
"I didn't feel those three candidates represented that for our party," she said of Mr. Lali, Mr. Simons and Mr. Larsen.

What a consensus builder! Hah!

Good riddance.

Adrian could conceivably pull off the brass ring here. Adrian has been working hard as a MLA. And quite importantly, for someone aspiring to leadership he has been by far the most effective NDP MLA at obtaining good coverage in the mainstream press for his health care critic role.

Yeah, I think he has a good chance too.  The endorsements were a bit of a coup and he is one of the few MLAs who has impressed in his critic role.  He has some really obvious baggage but that's not necessarily a deal breaker for me if he'll fight for the things I care about.  From the statements he, Horgan, and Farnworth have made, he's sounded the scrappiest of the three 'favorites' so far.  I'd like to like Horgan as he's from the island but so far have been really unimpressed.  Even Farnworth has had more substance but his rightwing 'tough on crime' obsession ensures I'll rank him last.

Vancouver-Hastings MLA Shane Simpson was elected caucus chair, with Burnaby-Deer Lake MLA as deputy. (Who's this - Corrigan?)

Esquimalt-Royal Roads MLA Maurine Karagianis was elected caucus whip, with Burnaby-Edmonds MLA Raj Chouhan as deputy.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_south/victorianews/news/1142...

I wanted to dismiss Farnworth out of hand, but his understanding of environmental, transportation and sustainability issues have been impressive. I was actually under the impression that had he won I would've (at best) begrudgingly voted for him  (in a general election), but I'm not as worried about that now. Of course he'll be low on my list of ranked candidates, due to his retrograde analysis and presentation on criminal justice issues (where he plays to the lowest possible denominator), but I'm not as diametrically opposed to his candidacy as I initially was.

As for Horgan, I too have been underwhelmed. About the only impressive thing about his candidacy so far is the fact that he has a nice looking website. He seems like the most James like of the candidates, in so far as he's talked a lot and said very little. Completely invisible for a so-called 'serious' candidate. This may be unfair seeing as it's early in the race, but this is a short race, he needs to step it up. This doesn't fill me with confidence regarding his ability to beat the Liberals.

Dix has been a pleasant surprise. I've always liked him as a critic because of his strong grasp of the issues and his take no prisoners style vs. the Liberals, but I've always been leery of him as a potential leader because he was aligned with Clark and is somewhat of an "old boy"/"hack." It's not because I believe in guilt by association so much as because that part of the party has consistently shown themselves to be impervious to progressive thought that is willing to challenge the status quo and hell bent on gaining power even if it destroys the party in the process. That being said, he has shown that he has an impressive grasp of the issues. One thing we often forget is that Clark too was an impressive politician, until he overreached. If Dix can avoid the tendency to overreach and dismiss progressive fellow travellers as "enemies of BC" and instead focus on the issues then I could be convinced to support him. His analysis of economic issues and his lack of fear (which is a refreshing change for a New Democrat) in using reality to critique the Liberal record and promote an NDP vision is very impressive. He's the candidate that I could see my self supporting with my head, despite his establishment credentials.

If Dix is the candidate that I'm leaning to with my head then Simons is the candidate I support with my heart. I don't think he's polished enough, so I'm not convinced he'd be able to do the parliamentary dance, or spar very well with the Liberal frontrunners in a debate, but he does have a deep understanding of the issues and he comes at them from a solidly progressive point of view. I watched his interview with the Georgia Straight and he tackled the questions very well, albiet not in an overly media friendly way. I know it's lame to be worried about that sort of thing, but it's an unfortunate reality that that sort of thing is important. The fact that he's an outsider is attractive too. Of course he has little chance of winning, but nonetheless I'd probably rank him first, with Dix second if this was the form of voting we were going to use. To be honest, they're the only two candidates I "approve" of so far.

Lali's attempt to be an outsider or populist is good in theory. The political world needs some shaking up and people are angry and would probably flock to an outsider candidate. That being said he's made some weird statements, like the whole thing on having old white men "take back" the party that make me question his judgement and abilities. I realize the point he was trying to make, although it's ironic coming from him. I just haven't been able to take him seriously. Not to mention the fact that he really hasn't said much of anything related to the issues other than harping on Dix regarding the members issue and complaining about not being able to use Excel. I will grant that his criticism of the $15,000, including $5,000 non-refundable administrative fee was reasonable. That said I would hope a serious party leader would be adept at raising funds.

I haven't heard anything from Larsen to change my opinion of him. He's a joke candidate. I agree our drug laws need changing, but that's about it. What have you said lately? I could see how, should we have an STV style ballot that ranking him higher than other candidates would be useful, but I can't see him as an MLA much less the leader.

It's already been dealt with - they put the applications in one container and the money in another to keep it organized. There nothing here Brian, but thanks again for being a lackey of the msp in trying to help smear the NDP. Time to move on and deal with who will be the best leader.

Brian White wrote:

I am sorry that you feel that way, North Report

I guess there is no truth to the rumours that Farnworth and Lali strongly objected?

They made that up too, did they?

You're right Brian. The fact that Farnworth is a leadership rival to Dix makes him an objective and unbiased source!

Anyways....

Brian that isn't money laundering and if you think that's money laundering you need to read the definition of money laundering. This is the definition of money laundering:

"Money laundering occurs over a period of three steps, which include the physical distribution of the cash (“placement”), the second step involves carrying out complex financial transactions in order to camouflage the illegal source (“layering”), and the final step which entails acquiring wealth generated from the transactions of the illicit funds (“integration”)."

So, I realize this is a part of leadership campaigns, but it's a waste of time because I want to hear about the issues. Whoever speaks to them best will have my support period.

I actually like Simons, sorry Carole.

We have been shifting to the right ever since Reagan and his sidekick Mulroney. I'm looking for a candidate who is is going to finally fight for the left.  

Gary Mason is a predictable and tiresome bore. I can stand him even less than I can Vaughn Palmer or Keith Baldry. And I can't really stand those two.

As for raising the minimum wage to 15$ an hour that's a reasonable policy. They do it in Australia.

edmundoconnor wrote:

Brian White wrote:

Just a note that the gayness of 2 NDP candidates was noted by Gary Mason in one of the rags today. So I guess he is trying to manufacture an issue.

Said note in said rag.

Perhaps the headline should be: "Is the Globe and Mail's Gary Mason ready for an openly gay party leader?"

If I'm not mistaken, before Farnworth announced his candidacy for leader, he had never publicly come out and was in a Baird-like limbo. His bios never made any mention of a partner etc...but obviously he made a decision that if he ran for leader he would have to come out by openly acknowledging his partner of 22 years - giving the media sudden cart blanche to write about what had previously been an open secret.

Palmer sure has it in for the NDP. He might as well be on the Liberal payroll with this kind of sleazy reporting.

Opinion: Dix, Liberals have lots in common

NDP leadership hopeful says he's learned from past mistakes

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Opinion+Liberals+have+lots+common/41301...

There is a two month gap between the date the BC Liberals pick their leader in February and the date the NDP chooses its new leader in April. At this early stage of the NDP race, its really been all about speculation on who is in and who is out and a boomlet about who got a bunch of new members signed up before the Jan. 17 deadline. I'm not expecting much action in the NDP race until after the BC Liberals make their choice and then we have two long months of debates etc... between the candidates.

NDP contender Harry Lali wants Elections B.C. to run leadership contests

Quote:

 5. If a person is holding a membership in one political party and wants to sign a membership card for another political party he/she must follow these steps in the following order:

a) Give written notices to his/her current political party in which he/she holds a membership and also to Elections BC that he/she is resigning his/her membership in the current political party;

b) If he/she had previously volunteered to have his/her name registered as a supporter of a particular political party, then in the same written notice he/she will also ask Elections BC to de-register him/her from the current political party he/she is resigning from; and finally

c) The individual is then free to join any other political party of his/her choice.

Lali's campaign has just jumped the shark. These rules sound positively fascisitic.

I think it is an East Indian thing. I have read blogs where east Indians are absolutely furious about Basi Verk, (the minnows get caught in what is very clearly a much bigger game and none of the white guys got charged with anything).   Some were really angry about how Martin recruited busloads of  east indians to get rid of Herb Daliwal.

Anyway, he cannot be too happy at the image of Dix waving 10 dollar bills or $20's at hundreds of  very poor east indian farm workers to recruit them as membership fodder.  And the brown members always get painted as the bad guys in this, not the white recruiter.         Why is that?

I am sure the East Indian community has a huge range of attitudes and beliefs and  they are probably not happy to be all lumped together.

And he probably does not have the money to do this type of recruiting himself.

Take it up with Farnworth and Lali. They are the ones who complained to the BC NDP about it. Maybe you want them to withdraw their complaints?

And central council is clearly an active participant in the Dix campaign so it is too funny that they say nothing wrong was done. Well, they would say that wouldn't they?

I wasn't calling the volunteers crooked.

They are only doing that they are told to do.  Lots of people follow orders.

If the election of a new leader was confined to existing members, this would never have happened.

Anyway, I do not see too much wrong with Lali's idea for elections BC to oversee the partys.  They are certainly not capable of overseeing themselves. 

The NDP leadership (Moe and friends) might as well annoint Dix now and get it over with.  But no, they have to wait until the "process" of converting "memberships" into acclaimation is over.   You all like to protray Lali as a nut.  So why did Farnworth complain too?

Because there was abuse of process going on, that is why.

"And, the contestants are in the starting blocks, ready, get set.    Stop!"    "A last minute contestant! And he is straight out there a mile ahead of the others.  GO! "

One rule for Dix and a different rule for everyone else.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Brian White wrote:

I think it is an East Indian thing. I have read blogs where east Indians are absolutely furious about Basi Verk, (the minnows get caught in what is very clearly a much bigger game and none of the white guys got charged with anything).   Some were really angry about how Martin recruited busloads of  east indians to get rid of Herb Daliwal.

Anyway, he cannot be too happy at the image of Dix waving 10 dollar bills or $20's at hundreds of  very poor east indian farm workers to recruit them as membership fodder.  And the brown members always get painted as the bad guys in this, not the white recruiter.         Why is that?

This is a slanderous smear of the people connected with Adrian's campaign.  Where is your proof this is nothing more than the people who signed members putting the money in a pile just like it has been done every other time.  The new policy to staple the money to the form is not more secure.  By raising this you are slurring the Philippine and East Indian volunteers on the campaign and calling them crooked.  

Shame on you for regurgitating this slander.  Either provide some proof for this allegation of election fraud or withdraw the comment.

I think if the NDP pick Adrian as leader the NDP has a good shot at winning the next election. And I see Christy's campaign is starting to tank as I suspected it would.

I have to withdraw, I could spend an hour looking up old blog links but that proves nothing.   I posted some of them in the bc rail threads.

And I don't read other languages so it is impossible to gauge the "average"  feeling for me or most other white people. 

Lali is understandably annoyed that his community is USUALLY protrayed as the one where ALL the mass sign ups take place.

That certainly is  how it is protrayed in the BC newspapers here (and has been protrayed that way since I came to BC in late 98).

So he wants to clean up the image by stopping mass sign ups altogether.

Even in one of these threads, (or maybe in the tyee)  someone suggested Lali sour grapes because Dix got to them (south asians)  first.

  This was also given as one reason why the BC Libs changed from one member one vote (for leader) to a system that gives whiter rural regions  a disproportinate  share of the vote.

Anyway, I was noting a perception.  Basi-Verk worked for the Paul Martin campaign. They were widely covered as very successful membership recruiters. That was part of a hugh scandal  and it was about 6 years ago.  Martin came out of it as PM and Basi and Verk were seen as the crooks.

  Someone mentioned Dix traveling to Surrey a lot more than we would have expected. The tyee, I think.  Anyway, I note again that somehow Dix comes out of this clean while the south asian community somehow comes out of it as being crooked.  Why the hell is that?

Anyway, there is a perception. I note that the perception exists. This perception does the south asian community no favours what so ever.

Lali proposes removing mass membership  sigh ups altogether (probably to remove the cause of the perception).  

Does that make me racist?

By the way, in holey Ireland, the leadership campaign in a party lasted less than 2 weeks. 

There were no instant members and no whiff of scandal about the campaign.

I am not sure why the ndp have to ape the republican party in the USA with their expensive campaigns.

A party that represents the poorer people should not do it that way.

Just one thing you are forgetting?   A really important thing.

  Dix did not officially enter the leadership campaign until the very last minute.

  You enter it at the eleventh hour and somehow your "friends and family" in a couple of days gather huge numbers of memberships?  What great networking! 

Aren't you stretching your imagination to the extreme using the words "friends and family".  

The best thing I can say about that is that it is sneaky. Are you in Dix's propaganda advisory group?  "Friends and family" indeed.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

MSM perceptions are often the problem.

The short sign up time was to ensure that there was not a flood. The fact that Dix actually had volunteers willing to talk to their friends and family and they managed to get interest behind his campaign should be applauded.  For Lali and Farnworth to make unspecified allegations of fraud in the media is really dumb politics and highlights why the party lost the last election. The movers and shakers in the party save their most vile vitriol for their allies and talk sweet talk to power.  The NDP is a nice comfy club why try to increase its membership?