Unionist never ceases to amaze me, he's basically a kind of inverted fundamentalist xian who believes in preserving the material souls of people no matter what the cost, they really are people who value security more then liberty
You disgust me unionist,you're the perfect reason why the state needs to be destroyed once and for all, one day your kind might actually get in and make orwell's hypothoses a reality, the notion live and let live means nothing to you.
You're the first one on my list, Stirner. You independent thinkers need to be taught a lesson. Like how to use spellcheckers. And by the way, it's spelled Christian, not xian - or are you one of those faux anarchists who is afraid God will send you to Hell if you take His Son's Name in vain?
If my post has mis-spellings unionist its usually because I'm posting to someone I don't take seriously, actually I used xian because as far as I know shortening the word is indicative of not taking that religion seriously. You are far more christian then I ever will be as you have basically the same structure of prescription for people as they do, you simply substitute body of christ for body of humanity to the exclusion of all unique individuals including obviously those who live on the edge.
My life's mission is to strengthen the [color=blue][b]STATE[/b][/color] until it becometh a veritable [color=red][b]JUGGERNAUT[/b][/color] which, like a wintry avalanche in the cragged Columbian climes, will mercilessly crush all who stand in the way of [color=green][b][i]PROGRESS[/i][/b][/color].
Be ye warnèd.
Can we save the religion bashing for another thread please?
Why do we have threads on anything?
al Q I think you should start a thread on that.
[i]Religion bashing?[/i] Actually Maysie, since you've come to visit our thread, why don't you check out post #51, see if it suits babble policy, and enforce it. Thanks a lot.
Unionist, proved your claims of least regulated wrong, so how about you stop with that erroneous contention.
I sometimes think I'd rather be swallowed by Lake Gitcheegumi while ski-dooing high than of a one in two chance of the cancer at some point. At least theyre cashing out while doing what they love. If they had more resources, they'd prolly be out climbing K2 or swimming with sharks in Australia, or something. Death is all around us and happens every day. It's a relentless cycle.
yep fidel, I agree, though not with child endangerment, children have no business on the mountains when avalanche possibility is extreme.
Oh.... a guy drowned yesterday in the the lake at Kelowna.
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/28/bc-snowmobile... snowmobiler killed within past week in B.C.[/url]
The man went missing after a group of 12 snowmobilers were caught up in the avalanche around noon local time Tuesday on the south side of Coquihalla Lake, near the old highway toll booth. [...]
Two other snowmobilers also died in separate accidents in B.C. in recent days.
In one accident in Elko, west of Fernie, an unidentified 44-year-old man was killed when his sled went off an embankment and struck a BMX ramp on Monday.
In the second accident near Prince George on Sunday, another 44-year-old man was killed after running head-on into another snowmobile in the dark, while the pair were out sledding on a lake.
You missed the summer sports season U.
After all there was a record number of drownings across Canada that never received any billing from you, at all. Though I know it would be hard for you to chronicle the 500 or so who died in the water. There would have been no time for anything else to be posted by you.
Those back yard swimming pools people have, to show their superiorness to others, are an extreme danger to their own chiildren it appears.
Maybe society should be thinking about criminally charging the parents who have them, seeing as how, this year at least, they are the largest single cause of children's death in the home?
This is hilarious.
An intoxicated man was arrested after falling off his snowmobile in front of RCMP in rural Manitoba.The 35-year-old man was taunting officers, swearing at them and spinning his snowmobile around in circles in a hotel parking lot in Petersfield, Man., at about 12:30 a.m. Friday morning.
The man was so intoxicated that he eventually fell off of his machine directly in front of police while doing circles around them.
Drunk snowmobiler falls after taunting RCMP
We should actually be talking about piece by piece law abolition in these end times and actually try to make a world that best reflects the anarchy of the internet even in non revolutionary times, its coming whether you like it or not.
The fact that someone can muster himself to seriously talk about the most absurd kind of life regulations when there should be none, we have to evolve a way from the limited freedom of liberalism not make it worse.
Ok, Mike, let's start with removing all those "Bridge Out!!!" road signs.
Movement and navigation within an infrastructure is not exactly the same thing as a law, hell not all roads have been state sanctioned and they more or less move things along without people falling through bridges.
How about the "Hard hat area" and "Safety glasses required" and "Safety boots area" signs at the workplace, Mike - with discipline or dismissal as the penalty for violation? Private area, not "state sanctioned". Abolish those regulations too? Why, in the old days, a fair number of workers used to survive without all that hand-holding safety stuff...
Unionist you're missing the more underlying problem of work which is forced labour and cumpulsery production, in terms of what gets done in a future freer society it should be individuals who regulate what is good for themselves, if someone wants to be the craig mactavish of those workplaces mentioned who am I to care, and at the end of the day the regulations you speak of are more about cost saving rationality then about what people in a given situation actually want. There is an inherent problem of heirarchy that goes into the daily maiming and death of workers, but guess what, it was laws representing feudal biases that made it all possible.
But that's a problem of historical acess and I don't think that will be dealt with in a reformist scheme, what I don't want however is anymore laws, which always work against the workers interest anyway, particularly if you were to see the rise of more coop like grey markets.
Both my brothers drove big block BMW motorcycles and neither has had an accident on their bikes in a combined 50 years of riding. My oldest brother raced smaller Ducati GP bikes for over ten years in his 20's at Mosport and Harewood Acres in Ontario. Never had a spill. Neither of them break the law as far as I am aware when their bikes are on the road. And I'd say they represent the mainstream of motorcyclists.
Here on the Lower North Shore skidoos are a necessity and accidents/fatalities are very rare - usually when they do happen (again, rarely) it's the result of riding on unsafe ice. I've been driving skidoos 14 years (would have been 15, but last winter we didn't get enough snow) and have never come even close to an accident situation, nor do I drive my machine fast. Alcohol is a problem, though - there simply are no police in these communities and driving under the influence does take place, although as far as I am aware not in massive quantities of drivers - just a few.
Arriving 10 months late to address Mike's comment at post 51 which is a personal attack. Mike, no personal attacks. This is a warning.
If we can follow Boom Boom's lead and return to the thread topic that would be great. And that's not a suggestion.
[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/snowmobile-kills-pedestria... kills pedestrian in Winnipeg[/url]
A fatal collision involving a man who drove a snowmobile in a city field has touched off a debate about the snow sleds some Winnipeggers see as threats to their safety.
The crash Thursday night killed 51-year-old Ken Stammers, a CN Rail employee who lived near the site of the accident.
Stammers, a married father of two, was walking in a field east of the 500 block of Redonda Street near Paulley Drive at about 6:30 p.m. when a snowmobile collided with him, killing him in an area where neighbours say snowmobiling is not allowed.
Unionist, you call the targeting of a Democratic congresswoman in the States a non-newsworthy event, but you seem to have every news feed on snowmobile deaths piped into your browser.
It doesn't really matter; it's pretty trivial, but I still have no idea what the point of these threads is. And why snowmobiles?
That said, who the hell, on a snowmobile, that has headlights like any other vehicle, would not see an upright human figure walking in a field?
These threads should be about deaths by morons.
Unionist, you call the targeting of a Democratic congresswoman in the States a non-newsworthy event, but you seem to have every news feed on snowmobile deaths piped into your browser.
I don't think it's really proper to be discussing me. Personally, I don't care one bit more about the Democratic congresswoman than about any of the countless foreign politicians who are subject to attacks on a daily basis. Since you bothered to ask, I frankly find it offensive, lurid, and distasteful to post photos and minute by minute updates on her condition.
But I do care, a lot, about needless preventable accidental deaths of innocent people in my country, where there are inadequate regulations to avoid such deaths and injuries. And that's what these threads are about - not random shootings in foreign countries.
It doesn't really matter; it's pretty trivial, but I still have no idea what the point of these threads is.
I've explained in great, excruciating detail in the past what I think the point is. Others of course may disagree, in whole or in part. That's what makes for interesting discussion.
And why snowmobiles?
I've explained this in the past, with detailed reference to the regulation and lack thereof in various provinces - in short, it's far less regimented than automobiles. I also, as a worker and trade unionist, have developed a prejudice against any "explanation" of accidents which contents itself with blaming human error or recklessness. I try to look for systemic causes and solutions - even systemic causes for recklessness, for that matter.
ETA: Read the Winnipeg Free Press article and see how the police obliquely try to blame the victim. Then read the comments to see how angry some are at that.
I've explained in great, excruciating detail in the past what I think the point is. Others of course may disagree, in whole or in part. That's what makes for interesting discussion.
And why snowmobiles?I've explained this in the past, with detailed reference to the regulation and lack thereof in various provinces - in short, it's far less regimented than automobiles.
I don't think you have. Others have pointed out to you the number of recreational sports deaths that occur, but you seem to pick on snowmobiles. You cite articles about people going off-bounds in the Rockies and suggest it's someone other than that decision-maker's fault. In this most recent case, it is illegal to drive a snowmobile within city limits in Winnipeg, so this person will be charged.
The only point you might have is that, apparently, a licence is not required in Manitoba to drive a snowmobile. That should obviously change. But, actually, you didn't even make that point.
Then there are politicians who die in snowmobile accidents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Iftody
Vic Toew's predecessor.
Personally I think they are a damned menace for a number of reasons. For one, it's not safe to go walking in the woods with dogs anymore because snowmobilers never hear what is happening right around the corner from them.
And of course, if there is injury or death, it is not always the person at fault who pays the price. It's not just carelessness, but also that snowmobiles are increasingly powerful and fast machines, and many drivers have headgear that makes them less and less able to hear what is going on around them.
Secondly, snowmobiles (like quads) are more of a danger because they allow people far into the back country who may not be equipped to deal with what they might encounter there. This affects them, and more importantly living things in the area they are going into.
I know about 16 years ago there was some sabotage on some of the snowmobile trails in the area where I lived - a pipe sticking up in the middle of the track. No one was caught, and of course no one knew if it was just destructive foolishness or a serious grievance.
Of course there are far more deaths from kids on three-wheelers, but snowmobiles, seadoos and ATVs are all dangerous vehicles by virtue of the number of boneheads who use them. They have some practical purposes, but unfortunately that's not how they are always operated..
(edit)
And systemic causes of recklessness?
Let's ban AC/DC, bad country music and beer.
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/19/bc-mount.... avalanche kills 3 snowmobilers[/url]
Of course there are far more deaths from kids on three-wheelers, but snowmobiles, seadoos and ATVs are all dangerous vehicles by virtue of the number of boneheads who use them. They have some practical purposes, but unfortunately that's not how they are always operated..
You could say the exact same thing about cars, trucks, motorcycles....
Yes, but you are unlikely to encounter those other vehicles while you are having a pleasant walk through the bush, or canoeing. Nor do you drive cars deep into back country.
And there are laws against eight-year-olds driving cars.
Just this summer (at the Jazz festival) there was some goofball showing off with his boat at the same time as the cops were diving to find someone who had gone under the water waterskiing or someting.
And aside from the fact that there are no stop or yield signs on bush trails, there is not the same level of enforcement , or fear of enforcement among off-road vehicle users as there is with car drivers.
Yes, but you are unlikely to encounter those other vehicles while you are having a pleasant walk through the bush, or canoeing. Nor do you drive cars deep into back country.
Yes, and we are just as unlikely to encounter skidoos, jetboats and ATV's while going for a pleasant walk down Yong Street in Toronto, but you can still get run over by a drunk driver in a car.
And there are laws against eight-year-olds driving cars.
Same applies to offroad vehicles, at least here in Quebec.
Just this summer (at the Jazz festival) there was some goofball showing off with his boat at the same time as the cops were diving to find someone who had gone under the water waterskiing or someting.
And aside from the fact that there are no stop or yield signs on bush trails, there is not the same level of enforcement , or fear of enforcement among off-road vehicle users as there is with car drivers.
I've seen reports of cops run over by another motorist while ticketing a vehicle on a highway shoulder. There are goofballs all over. Between Natashquan and Sept-Iles (400 km) I've yet to see one police vehicle, and I've made that trip many times.
Judging by the number of drunk drivers that still get ticketed as reported in the media, there's little fear of enforcement out there on the roads as well as on the byways. And who ever heard of chain reaction accidents out in the bush?
Yes, I realized that, just pointing out that stupidity knows no bounds.
Boom Boom, your points are absolutely correct, except for one thing - these threads are about pointless stupid avoidable deaths during [b]"RECREATION"[/b], and the utter absence of effective safety or traffic regulation in most cases.
In the case of the three dead snowmobilers in Golden, for example - two fathers and their sons (one son survived) - they were [i]high-marking[/i] - and they [i][b]caused[/b][/i] the avalanche. These are not people commuting to work or driving to a party in our car-dependent anti-green society.
Likewise, we have this - which happened yesterday, north-east of Rouyn, where a snowmobiler decided to jump an abutment, and in doing so killed two people in a passing snowmobile:
[url=http://ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/34003-accident-m... jump in snowmobile[/url]
There are few rules (depending on province), and no enforcement. There need to be far more.
Perhaps we need to start putting regulations on back yard pools and lake side cottages long before tackling those nasty snow mobilers, given the reality that in any given year more people(read mainly children) drown, and over a 100 times more at that, in Canada, than die from snow mobile related deaths?
Perhaps we need to start putting regulations on back yard pools and lake side cottages long before tackling those nasty snow mobilers, given the reality that in any given year more people(read mainly children) drown, and over a 100 times more at that, in Canada, than die from snow mobile related deaths?
Actually there are very severe regulations on pools, at least in Ontario. Cottages not so much.
I'm glad to hear pool regulations - at least in Ontario - have been beefed up.
There are few rules
Let there be none
There are few rules
Let there be none
Yup and dismantle the rescue groups. Let private enterprise take up that mantle. Like the Romans did with firefighting.
I have no problem with that idea at all. I built a pool for my mother in Burlington in the early 1970s and as far as I can recall the only regulations in place were that the pool had to be surrounded by a fence at least four feet high. I put a chain link fence almost five feet high and actually exceeded the rules! And that was it. Fortunately the pool was only used by adults while she was there.
As for cottages, I have experience there as well - in the late 1960s my parents brought a cottage on the Rideau River I think near Manotick south of Ottawa - the place next door had several very young children. We'd often drive out to the cottage and see their young children - unsupervised - jumping into the water off our dock. My parents sold the place shortly afterwards and that was the end of our cottage experience. We did buy a house on the Ottawa River not long after, though - in an area with mostly older families.
Some (Conservatives, certainly) might complain about the 'nanny state'. I say, bring it on.
How about on a historical species level we re-learn basic rules of skill and self-determinaion Bacchus, in terms of recreation that is fairly entertwined with the logic of work which is problamatic in itself, I would like to see a day were we do not need top down rationalized rescue groups.
Unionist wants to nanny state things into even worse directions the they already are now.
Unionist wants to nanny state things into even worse directions the they already are now.
That's me!
What about, "Thou shalt not kill", Mike? Does that pass muster? It would have saved 5 lives in the last two snowmobile stories mentioned above.
All my life I've been busy fighting rulers. Turns out I should have been fighting rules. Goddam typos...
You're really calling that killing unionist, was there a state of anxiety and fear leading up to this event, C'MON MAN.
See? He [i]does[/i] believe in at least one rule, "Thou shalt not kill!" - he just doesn't think it applies in that case.
[b][i]Gotcha!![/i][/b] - foiled by the rules [sic] of logic!!
The nanny state as I know it doesn't exclude learning basic and advanced survival skills! It's just that accidents happen, which can be so easily prevented or made less life-threatening with a modicum of rules to follow.
Remind has a good point - if there's lots of pool regulations, why so many drownings?
Perhaps we need to start putting regulations on back yard pools and lake side cottages long before tackling those nasty snow mobilers, given the reality that in any given year more people(read mainly children) drown, and over a 100 times more at that, in Canada, than die from snow mobile related deaths?
Actually there are very severe regulations on pools, at least in Ontario. Cottages not so much.
Really? What kinda regulations?
Did ya read the opening post of this thread about how many drownings and water related accidents there are in ON every year?
Now that is killing on a much more significant scale than a hand full of snow mobile deaths each year, if we decide to go by unionist's, at best, overblown hyperbole and rhetoric.
A plethora of lakes, rivers, and waterways in ON + ten million people in this province = lots of drownings. There's no way to regulate everybody's use of the wilderness.
State-side, they have brought in a system of fines, where people who put themselves in dangerous situations have to pay the cost of their rescue. This wouldn't help reduce drownings, but if you've got people in BC high-marking up mountains heavy with snow, maybe the risk of a ruinous fine would act as a deterrent where merely endangering their lives doesn't seem to make a difference?
Remind has a good point - if there's lots of pool regulations, why so many drownings?
Most of them are not pool drownings. And for the ones that are, you can't regulate stupidity of the pool owners with their own kids, jsut other peoples ability to access it
Again....how about heavy fines for those 100's more swimming deaths per year? As people out here already have to pay for their own search and rescue and if they are dead their families have to.
Talking so blaise about the 100's more water deaths, or ignoring them completely, to target sledders who are mature adults as opposed to all the children drowning, is pretty damn interesting, On numerous levels.
Why would regulations only target mature adult snowmobilers? Regulations could help the children killed through reckless snowmobile usage as well.
And just how many of them are there? Children I mean, one got hurt snow mobiling last year in BC none killed. None the year before, or the year before that...throw up some stats and let us have a look...
It is mainly a sport of adult recreation., which is what my comment reflected.
But yet we have 100's of children drowning every year across Canada, but not a peep on what to do about that, or even an acknowlegement it is a very serious issue comparatively speaking to the handful of adults who die each year, doing something they love, undertaken by an informed and mature decision on their part. Which is also what my comments reflected.
And just how many of them are there? Children I mean, one got hurt snow mobiling last year in BC none killed. None the year before, or the year before that...throw up some stats and let us have a look...
It is mainly a sport of adult recreation., which is what my comment reflected.
But yet we have 100's of children drowning every year across Canada, but not a peep on what to do about that, or even an acknowlegement it is a very serious issue comparatively speaking to the handful of adults who die each year, doing something they love, undertaken by an informed and mature decision on their part. Which is also what my comments reflected.
