Libya

So Cannon condemns the use of force and the killing of it's own people in Libya..yeah right...This is a government that thinks trampling people with horses and beating them and placing innocent people in cages is normal...as is trying to instigate riots (Montebello) when there are American snipers just waiting and ready to mow down Canadian protesters..what a disgrace...what a hypocritical disgrace. That act alone worth a government topple and rebuild..True testament to the ignorance and wimpyness of Canadians, as they keep the rotten government in power.

Our honorable leaders are trying to say that if a group of protesters marched on parliament with the intention of removing gargabe from there lives.... they would let them - believe they would have no problem setting up a machine gun nest and doing the same acts they condemn Lybia for...just look what the rcmp did that during a coal miners strike!...Libya ...be careful what you wish for, we have a democracy and we may as well have a Gadafii as a leader. Worse yet, he sells out his country to the US.

Harper would order troops to open fire if he faced the same insurrection. Only a Conserva-dupe would think otherwise.

Snert wrote:

Canada: if you don't like Stephen Harper you're free to vote for someone else, or run for office yourself. Estimates suggest as few as zero fatalities from this. 

Zero fatalities my ass.  It would appear that even a casual glance at merely one outcome among many of neo-liberalism's finest work reveals that this motley collection of narcissists and masochists posing as our representatives prefers to slowly draw out the suffering from the population.  Granted, it's a less spectacular method than that applied to other regions of the world, but comparitively speaking our level of docitility leaves them with plenty of time on their bloody hands.

VanGoghs Ear wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Fidel Castro Says US Plans NATO Invasion of Libya

http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC110223-0000038/Fidel-Castro-says-US-...

"Cuba's former leader Fidel Castro said Tuesday that unrest in Libya may be a pretext for a NATO invasion. Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega has jumped to the support of the embattled leader of the North African nation, saying he telephoned to express solidarity. His [Gaddafi's] relations with Hugo Chavez are so warm that rumors that Gaddafi was headed to Venezuela swept the world on Monday."

I find that pretty disturbing considering what Gaddafi is currently doing and what he said he will do to the people of Libya who dare to voice their displeasure with him.  After listening to some people downtown today carrying signs and talking about their hopes for their relatives and former country I really hope the protesters keep their fires burning for justice in their hearts but also that Gaddafi doen't unleash a massive bloodbath and things revert. 

Gaddafi will never be a martyr but those he's already had killed could be.  Casrto is grown into a conservative anti-revolutionary in his old age. 

Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand

I wish the people of Libya the best as much as blood shed turns my stomach.  Empty bellies and dictatorial rule and lose of freedoms has taken its tiol on people who are willing to die for change. 

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Zero fatalities my ass.  It would appear that even a casual glance at merely one outcome among many of neo-liberalism's finest work reveals that this motley collection of narcissists and masochists posing as our representatives prefers to slowly draw out the suffering from the population.  Granted, it's a less spectacular method than that applied to other regions of the world, but comparitively speaking our level of docitility leaves them with plenty of time on their bloody hands.

I think you misunderstood. I suggested there would be zero fatalities involved with a "regime change" at the polls.

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Harper would order troops to open fire if he faced the same insurrection. Only a Conserva-dupe would think otherwise.

The next election should be fascinating then. Gord forbid we don't re-elect Harper, or he'll order air strikes on us!

This isn't Libya. Harper, much as you may dislike him, isn't an autocratic dictator. You don't need to surround his palace waving pitchforks and butchering tools. Just vote him out. And honestly, when was the last time that a Prime Minister, Conservative or otherwise, responded to a loss at the polls by ordering the populace shot? Seriously. This hyperbole is a bit thick, doncha think?

Time For UN To Intervene In Libya: Ex PM Martin

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/united-nations-must...

"Former Prime Minister Paul Martin is calling for UN intervention in Libya and acknowledging that the West's rapprochement with dictator Moammar Gadhafi has failed. Martin said the situation in the North African country demands implementation of the UN sanctioned principle of 'responsibility to protect'. If they don't it allows the UN Security Council to authorize everything from sanctions to armed force."

In this case R2P stands for responsibility to profit. And how quaint Martin cites Rwanda, where Canada assisted in an American regime change operation styled as a 'genocide' to put Western proxy Paul Kagame into power. Gadhafi's threat to blow pipelines, not any concern over the mass murder of Libyans would likely be the instigator of Martin's proposition.

Maybe Castro's suggestion the West could intervene isn't as farfetched as it appears..

Nah, it's cool. Libya's on the Human Rights Council. So is Bahrain.

Arabs Have Been Discounted For So Long'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166743.html

"This is the Arab nation, not many nations, one nation taking a stance. From Tunisia to Egypt to Bahrain to Yemen and elsewhere. And they are saying that 'we are going to determine our own destination and our own future.' There is absolutely no question that some outside powers are trying to use and misuse these revolutions for their own interests. But now it is people against all their powers combined, including the dictatorships of Egypt and Muammar Gaddafi and all the others. Hopefully, we can one day meet here and say that Arab people have finally won and achieved freedom from all these powers combined.."

The Spectre of A Black Europe  - by Behzad Yahmaian

http://www.counterpunch.org/behzad02232011.html

"The fall of the African dictators will deprive Europe of valuable allies in the fight against irregular migration. Europe is responding with an increased use of force. How far will Europe go to stop the African from reaching its frontiers? A new humanitarian crisis is looming."

130 Libyan Soldiers Executed for Mutiny

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166757.html

"130 Libyan soldiers have been executed for refusing to open fire on pro-democracy protesters, International Federation for Human Rights says.."

Slumberjack wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

N.Beltov wrote:

Harper would order troops to open fire if he faced the same insurrection. Only a Conserva-dupe would think otherwise.

... and would the troops listen?

I know for my part, they might wanna think twice before giving such an order. 

19.015 - LAWFUL COMMANDS AND ORDERS (B), (C) and (D)

Exactly...

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Nah, it's cool. Libya's on the Human Rights Council. So is Bahrain.

Insert ironic smilie.

You've got a really good point though. Libya on the HRC is like Howard Stern as the Minister for Status of Women.

Libya Military Brass Joins Protesters

http://presstv.com/detail/166902.html

"High ranking members of the Libyan Army have resigned and joined the protesters.."

Gadaffi's Son Joins Libyan Protesters

http://presstv.com/detail/166900.html

"According to reports, Saif al-Arab, Gaddafi's youngest son, who was sent by his father to cooperate with Libyan security forces in the massive crackdown on pro-democracy protesters, joined forces with the demonstrators on Thursday, while hinting that his father would commit suicide or flee to Latin America..."

'Gaddafi's Rule A Big Charade' (and vid)

http://presstv.com/detail/166890.html

"Libyan protesters continue to pour into the streets of Tripoli and other major cities demanding the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi. Press TV interviews investigative journalist Wayne Madsen regarding the Libyan uprising.

'The Obama administration has very close connections with the oil industry. Obviously they are placing these interests ahead of the human rights disaster that is unfolding right now in Libya. In the last few years Gaddafi has established himself as an ally against the war against al-Qaeda and his government was participating just as much as the government of Mubarak in the CIA transition and torture program..

Obviously I think the Obama administration is as much interested in allowing Gaddafi to hold on long enough so any documents or witnesses to that torture program can be infiltrated from Libya so there is no smoking gun evidence left. Just as we saw with trying to keep Mubarak in power for enough time to clear the records of the CIA program there.."

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/business/23views.html?_r=1]I.M.F. Reviews Praised Libya, Egypt and Other Nations[/url]

I dunno. It sounds like a certain Libyan revolutionary was sucked into accepting the IMF witch doctors' neoliberal medicine. Could this be why Libyans are so disagreeable today? We know that Vietnam's independence was overturned by the western financial cabal and forced down the capital road by the late 1990s-2000s. I think they've been "pressurizing" Libya similarly as they have Zimbabwe, North Korea and Cuba.

The Wall Streeters and London's financial jackals have been telling China and the rest that the world's monetary system is out of whack, and that they should cooperate with the witch doctors in bringing it back in balance. But it's Wall Street and London who are responsible for the world's "disequilibrium" today. I think they are fascists deliberately trying to wreck their own monetary system governing the way the world operates. They want disequilibrium, and they want confrontation and conflict in stirring the pot. And most of all they want profitable war and real estate grabs.

Fidel wrote:

The Wall Streeters and London's financial jackals have been telling China...

That's a joke, and one thats ten years out of date. We're already living in the age of Chinese hegemony.

All hail The People's Republic of Walmart!

howeird beale wrote:

Yeah, a guy who holds onto power over 40 years, and then hands it over to a relative; he's unbiased in his view of Libya, sure. See, he handed it to his brother not his kid.

Your ignorance is encyclopedic.

Fidel Castro was in power for 40 years because the Cuban people wanted him in power. I'm sure you wanted somebody else who was more friendly to imperialist interests.

His brother Raul was a respected leader of the revolution in his own right; there can be no question of nepotism. Besides, Raul has been elected by the National Assembly.

Who elected you? 

howeird beale wrote:

Fidel wrote:

The Wall Streeters and London's financial jackals have been telling China...

That's a joke, and one thats ten years out of date. We're already living in the age of Chinese hegemony.

All hail The People's Republic of Walmart!

Oh ya! This is what I think is another contradiction of capitalism. Yes China is doing capitalism. And US and international capitalists are all making money by cheap labour in China. They don't really want the US Government guys or Wall Street to convince Beijing to fully float the Yuan/Renmibi. They don't really want China's economy to tank. But Wall Street bankers and London want to play yo-yo with the yuan and to takeover Chinese banks. Financial capitalists began to overthrow industrial capitalists since the 1980s. The Walmarts and the Costcos, Carrefours, BP, Shell etc have Bank of America and Citigroup hot on their tails in the race toward domination. The US and Canada, Britain etc are de-industrializing while BRIC countries grow. Pinochet's and Menem's and Yeltsin's de-industrialized, financialized and services economies are becoming our economies. What we need to do is conjure up the courage to protest in the streets similarly. They've been walking all over us for a long time.

M. Spector wrote:

Fidel Castro was in power for 40 years because the Cuban people wanted him in power.

Ok I'll give you that... So now the question is why is he supporting Gadhafi when it's now obvious the Libyan people don't want him in power?

If it's out of loyalty to him as a personnel friend I can honestly respect that; you don't see much of that in today's world; not so much so if it's because he really thinks Gadhafi should be left in power.

Snert wrote:

 

Canada: if you don't like Stephen Harper you're free to vote for someone else, or run for office yourself. Estimates suggest as few as zero fatalities from this.

 

Only 30% of 55% of eligible Canadains elected the trash ..that makes for a very tiny amount of support and hardly democratic...at all - The minority rule...to make matters worse, it was done illegally..fraudueantly and by cheating ... so while we have our own Gadaffi we also have our own nation of chickens who won't rise up against this crap and that's why there are no casulty's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkM5eyN8ytI&feature=user

So....if Harper is "our own Gadaffi" does that mean that Fidel and Hugo will soon start supporting him?

Cynicism's danse macabre

by Fidel Castro

February 24, 2011

[url=http://www.cubadebate.cu/reflexiones-fidel/2011/02/24/danza-macabra-de-c... from here[/url]

Quote:

The politics of plunder imposed by the United States and its NATO allies in the Middle East is in crisis. This was inevitably unleashed with the high cost of grain, the effects of which are being felt with more force in the Arab nations where, despite their enormous oil resources, the shortage of water, arid areas and generalized poverty of the people contrast with the vast resources derived from oil possessed by the privileged sectors.

While food prices triple, the real estate fortunes and wealth of the aristocratic minority rise to billions of dollars.

The Arab world, with its Islamic culture and beliefs, has seen itself additionally humiliated by the brutal imposition of a state which was not capable of meeting the elemental obligations which brought about its creation, based on the colonial order in existence since the end of World War II, which allowed the victorious powers to create the United Nations and impose world trade and economy.

Thanks to Sadat's betrayal at Camp David, the Palestinian Arab State has not come into existence, despite the United Nations agreements of November 1947, and Israel has become a powerful nuclear force allied with the United States and NATO.

The U.S. military-industrial complex supplies tens of billions of dollars every year to Israel and to the very Arab states that it subjugates and humiliates.

The genie is out of the bottle and NATO doesn't know how to control it. They are going to try and take maximum advantage of the lamentable events in Libya. No one is capable of knowing at this time what is happening there. All of the figures and versions, even the most improbable, have been disseminated by the empire through the mass media, sowing chaos and misinformation.

It is evident that a civil war is developing in Libya. Why and how was this unleashed? Who will suffer the consequences? The Reuters news agency, repeating the opinion of the well-known Nomura Japanese bank, said that the price of oil could surpass all limits:

"' If Libya and Algeria were to halt oil production together, prices could peak above US$220/bbl and OPEC spare capacity will be reduced to 2.1mmbbl/d, similar to levels seen during the Gulf war and when prices hit US$147/bbl in 2008,' the bank stated in a note."

Who could pay this price today? What will be the consequences for the food crisis?

The principal NATO leaders are exalted. British Prime Minister David Cameron, reported ANSA, "'admitted in a speech in Kuwait that the Western countries made a mistake in supporting non-democratic governments in the Arab world.'" He should be congratulated for his frankness.

His French colleague Nicolas Sarkozy declared, "The prolonged brutal and bloody repression of the Libyan civilian population is repugnant."

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini declared "believable" the figure of one thousand dead in Tripoli [...] 'the tragic figure will be a bloodbath.'"

Ban Ki-moon added, "The use of violence in the country is absolutely unacceptable.'"

"...'the Security Council will act in accordance with what the international community decides.'"

What Ban Ki-moon is really waiting for is that Obama give the last word.

The President of the United States spoke Wednesday afternoon and stated that the Secretary of State would leave for Europe in order to reach an agreement with the NATO European allies as to what measures to take. Noticeable on his face was his readiness to take on the right-wing Republican John McCain; Joseph Lieberman, the pro-Israel Senator from Connecticut; and Tea Party leaders, in order to guarantee his nomination by the Democratic Party.

The empire's mass media have prepared the ground for action. There would be nothing strange about a military intervention in Libya, which would, additionally, guarantee Europe almost two million barrels of light oil a day, if events do not occur beforehand to put an end to the presidency or life of Gaddafi.

In any event, Obama's role is complicated enough. What would the Arab and Islamic world's reaction be if much blood is spilt in this country in such an adventure? Would the revolutionary wave unleashed in Egypt stop a NATO intervention?

In Iraq the innocent blood of more than a million Arab citizens was shed when this country was invaded on false pretenses. Mission accomplished, George W. Bush proclaimed.

No one in the world will ever be in favor of the deaths of defenseless civilians in Libya or anywhere else. I ask myself, would the United States and NATO apply that principle to the defenseless civilians killed by yankee drones, and this organization's soldiers, every day in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

It is cynicism's danse macabre.

M. Spector wrote:

Now [url=http://meganleslie.ndp.ca/]the NDP has hopped on the war wagon[/url], calling for a no-fly zone over Libya. This puts them in line with Sarah Palin, John McCain, and the folks at Faux News.

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Canada should also be working with its international partners to bring the issue to the UN Security Council [b]and work to establish a no-fly zone in Libya's airspace.[/b]

Where does this come from? The Libyan activists themselves are not asking for foreign intervention. Why is the NDP so eager to get involved in an air war over Libya?

Are you sure on that last part? I think Libyan folks want anything done that can stop the dictator from bombing and firing on his own people. I sure wouldn't to be in the same company as "...Sarah Palin, John McCain, and the folks at Faux News", though.

M. Spector wrote:

Now [url=http://meganleslie.ndp.ca/]the NDP has hopped on the war wagon[/url], calling for a no-fly zone over Libya. This puts them in line with Sarah Palin, John McCain, and the folks at Faux News.

Quote:

Canada should also be working with its international partners to bring the issue to the UN Security Council [b]and work to establish a no-fly zone in Libya's airspace.[/b]

Where does this come from? The Libyan activists themselves are not asking for foreign intervention. Why is the NDP so eager to get involved in an air war over Libya?

Libyan ambassdor calls for no-fly zone

Establishing a no-fly zone makes sense. The only thing that it will do is to stop Gaddafi's remaining forces from bombing its own civilians. Big difference between that and military intervention. 

Establishing a no-fly zone is an act of war.

Yeah, just like the [url=http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html]no-fly zone in Iraq[/url] was for peaceful purposes only.

West Coast Greeny wrote:

Meanwhile, NATO takes a no-fly zone off the table until a UN mandate is passed.

Meddling imperialists.

From that Xinhua article you linked to:

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European countries scrambled to send more ships and military planes to the North African nation and Britain mulled whether to send in its military to rescue stranded oil workers.

Right. No imperialist designs at work there. [img]http://i32.tinypic.com/oi5aw2.jpg[/img]

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