I'm sure it's being replicated already.
More Prisons More Prisoners
Thu, 2010-08-05 02:45
#52
RevolutionPlease
Fri, 2010-09-03 16:21
#53
Tories Roll Out First Stage of Prison Plan
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/todays-paper/Tories+roll+first+stage+p...
"600 new cells to accommodate influx from tough-on-crime agenda..."
Fri, 2010-09-03 17:35
#54
This is a golden opportunity to make them look like FOOLS.
Let them build all their big fancy prisons, then NOBODY COMMIT ANY CRIMES! Think of how stupid they'll look!
Who's in?
If they can't get enough prisoners legally, they will come up with some trumped up crimes and make them "stick". Like property/poverty crimes or (conspiracy to commit) 'acts of terrorism', for instance.
Do other people here really believe this? because (no offence to frmsld) but this is some seriously crazy paranoid shit.
Fri, 2010-09-03 20:41
#55
alan smithee
Do other people here really believe this? because (no offence to frmsld) but this is some seriously crazy paranoid shit.
Uh,yeah...Canada's crime rate has been steadily declining for the last 15 years.
Stage one will be potheads (including those who use it for medicinal purposes),property crimes and conspiracy (which would open the door to imprisoning people who thought about something aloud and never acted on it--ATTENTION: freedom of speech).
These prisons will become privatized and once that happens,the police,our courts--judges,prosecuters and even defense attorneys will become employees working to protect the new 'profit from crime' business that will make prisons money making corporations.
We'll be just like the U.S. and have a good 20% of the populous in jail,working for pennies a day,protecting the corporate powers that be profits and using this new tool to take care of the poor,the homeless and the sick.
A virtual win/win for the corporate cretins dictating policy and making laws...I can see the collective high fives being slapped around from the Fraser Institute to Canada Inc.,to Washington to the E.U.
Sun, 2011-01-09 20:15
#56
Harper Government to Announce More Prison Expansions
http://www.canada.com/news/national/Tories+announce+more+prison+expansio...
"The number of penitentiaries listed for expansion in a $2Billion federal prison building boom will rise to more than 2 dozen Monday as Conservative MPs make announcements on 8 prisons in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec..."
prisons and war - how much longer do we tolerate this?
Wed, 2011-02-23 10:11
#57
Tories Won't Back Down From Tough-On-Crime Stance: Government Not Swayed By Crime-Rate Drop
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1229600.html
"The Harper government's plan to spend billions of dollars on lock-'em-up policies could be a defining issue in the federal election. They would also mean huge costs for provinces already dealing with overcrowded jails.."
Wed, 2011-02-23 10:20
#58
Snert
The Harper government's plan to spend billions of dollars on lock-'em-up policies could be a defining issue in the federal election. They would also mean huge costs for provinces already dealing with overcrowded jails
So the jails are overcrowded? And building more, so they're not overcrowded, is wrongheaded for some reason?
If crime really is going down, and has been for a long time, I would kind of expect the prisons to gradually become LESS crowded. Is my math wrong?
Wed, 2011-02-23 12:27
#59
Pogo
I can see the right wing urges to criminalize more activities and increase the sentence lengths. However on the other side, there is a slow but steady societal move away from jailing people for using recreational drugs and for treating people medically for using harmful drugs. Perhaps they can hold off the building consensus for a few years, but it seems to be like King Alfred comanding the tide not to come in.
Wed, 2011-02-23 12:45
#60
but it seems to be like King Alfred comanding the tide not to come in
Minor correction, but I think that was King Canute. And would you believe I was just thinking about that story about two minutes before I read your post?
Wed, 2011-02-23 12:47
#61
Pogo
Thanks
Wed, 2011-02-23 22:12
#62
The Harper government's plan to spend billions of dollars on lock-'em-up policies could be a defining issue in the federal election. They would also mean huge costs for provinces already dealing with overcrowded jails
So the jails are overcrowded? And building more, so they're not overcrowded, is wrongheaded for some reason?
If crime really is going down, and has been for a long time, I would kind of expect the prisons to gradually become LESS crowded. Is my math wrong?
It is the Harper administration's bills that have been passed into law toughening existing laws and lengthening sentences over the past five years that has caused the increase in prison inmates and overcrowding.
For the ReformaTory Cons, this creates a nice self-fulfilling need.
Wed, 2011-02-23 23:45
#63
.
Thu, 2011-02-24 00:20
#64
Yeah it's not like they tried to enact US style three strikes law as soon as they were elected back in 2006 or anything.
It's like Simon Pegg kept saying in that horror flick, we should prolly all go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
Thu, 2011-02-24 08:22
#65
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
An interesting article on Harper's new pet institute, the one that's been hyping rising crime:
Newark has enjoyed the very coziest of relationships with the Conservative government for many years: way back in February of 2006, he signed on as a senior policy advisor to Stockwell Day. Three months later, he quit his gig and went back to the private sector - a dramatic career move presumably made much less stressful thanks to a contract, generously and immediately awarded by his former ministry, worth more than $300,000.Stuff like that is supposed to be illegal. More to the point, it's exactly the kind of "revolving door" activity - moving in and out of the public and private sectors for personal gain - that the Conservatives had promised to stamp out when they stamped out the Liberals.
Directly or through spokesminions, both Newark and Day consistently denied any impropriety, claiming that because, in the three months that he worked for Day's office, Newark hadn't got around to signing the papers that would have made him a public office holder.
If he wasn't a public office holder, the logic went, he wasn't subject to that hinky little part of the criminal code that prohibits a public office holder from tucking into government pork within a year of holding office.
Easy peasy!
So why does Newark's past matter right now? Because it's 2011, and despite his claims to be working for an "independent" think tank, he still appears to be backing his old government buddies on what remains a pretty controversial issue.
Let's take a moment to remember that it was over the issue of the crime bill that Prime Minister Harper was forced to prorogue Parliament just over a year ago.
It seems pretty clear that whatever the facts show, the Conservatives have remained steadfast in their desire to crack down on crime as a simple matter of political ideology.
Thu, 2011-02-24 08:56
#66
If crime really is going down, and has been for a long time, I would kind of expect the prisons to gradually become LESS crowded. Is my math wrong?
There are two types of inmates in provincial jails: those who are sentenced, and remands, who are awaiting trial. For some reason, over the past ten or so years in Ontario, the remands have been lingering in pre-trial custody for much longer than they did previously. People with relatively simple charges seem to be staying incarcerated for months. So the overcrowding has less to do with legislation and more to do with the process of addressing the charges of people in custody, who are for the most part, people who stay in jail because they can't afford bail. One of my methadone clients spent 4 months in jail because of numerous charges of panhandling in the subway. His bail was very low, but he was destitute, so in jail he stayed until he managed to get in front of a judge, who released him immediately.
I don't know much about what happens in court, and if anybody has insight into why a couple of drug/theft charges takes weeks of multiple court visits, please share.
Thu, 2011-02-24 09:26
#67
Snert
Certainly speeding up the process would help, and could ease crowding in jails. But until that happens (and we don't know that it will) I was merely suggesting that building more facilities is a fairly reasonable response to a shortage of facilities.
I'm wondering though: is there a difference between the provincial system you mention, and a federal system, or are they one and the same?
Thu, 2011-02-24 10:36
#68
alan smithee
Certainly speeding up the process would help, and could ease crowding in jails. But until that happens (and we don't know that it will) I was merely suggesting that building more facilities is a fairly reasonable response to a shortage of facilities.
I'm wondering though: is there a difference between the provincial system you mention, and a federal system, or are they one and the same?
It's not a reasonable response when the intention is to PUT more people behind bars.
That's what the Reform Party has been saying for a few years now...Not once did they say this was just a response to taking care of prison over population.
And with the low crime rates we have in this country (if you don't believe it,kindly leave this country and go anywhere else and see how our crime rate REALLY is..I digress) new prisons are for those who will fall victim to the new anti-crime bill.
Hence,alot of victimless crime offenders and offenders of the new 'Morality'.
Afterall,King Stephen has publicly stated that he wants to police social norms and values.
Gimme an 'F'...you know the rest.
Thu, 2011-02-24 11:01
#69
Snert
It's not a reasonable response when the intention is to PUT more people behind bars.
If the current facilities are overloaded with prisoners we have to house RIGHT NOW then it's still reasonable, regardless of future plans.
Or, let me ask you: if the Cons decided, suddenly, to drop all new legislation initiatives -- so, no new laws, no mandatory minimums, etc. -- would that provide space for the prisoners we've already got, or would they still be overcrowded? It's my thinking that they'd still be overcrowded.
Thu, 2011-02-24 11:05
#70
I'm wondering though: is there a difference between the provincial system you mention, and a federal system, or are they one and the same?
Well, the provincial system is funded by the provinces while the federal system is under Correctional Services Canada. The feds take inmates who have been sentenced to two years or more, while the provincial system houses both remands and people sentenced up to two years less a day. So overcrowding in provincial jails should, IMV, address the speed with which the justice system brings people to trial. After all, they're innocent until proven guilty, but in the meantime, if they can't afford bail, they sit in jail, sometimes for months.
Currently, the majority of people in jail are in the provincial system.
Question: if overcrowding is mostly due to backlogs in the justice system, but instead of taking steps to streamline the justice system, instead the government wants to build more jails, who benefits?
Thu, 2011-02-24 12:13
#71
Snert
Without knowing the actual costs of each (building a jail vs. building another courthouse, hiring justices, bailiffs, etc.) then I can't really say. And even that assumes that the delays are solely due to a shortage of staff.
Thu, 2011-02-24 12:29
#72
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
I suppose it's too much to ask you to consider whether justice is actually being served....
Thu, 2011-02-24 12:47
#73
remind
Funny snert, that you would think about it in building and staffing costs, as opposed to people being incarcerated at length, because they can't afford even small bail conditions, when those who can get out immediately.
Especially given it costs more to house, for 4 months as in sineed's example, than the financial gains of minor bail receipts.
Thus it would seem the easiest and most cost effective solution would be not to impose minor bail conditions upon those wiith minor crimes especially those that are poverty related, and thus tax payers incur benifits in both savings from the unnecessary housing costs and the lowering the over crowded jail situations thereby garnering a savings of billions, on not building unneeded jails.
It would seem the right would like to continue to state that socialist thinking around jail incarceration has not worked and would like to go to great lengths trying to prove it doesn't. even if it means erroneously making more jails and more criminals.
Fact is crime rates have been decreasing for years based upon social programs and social conduct laws.
Recently, small crime rates have been going up as they are poverty related, which interestingly also proves socialist thought has decreased crimes against society. When we had full social programs and poverty rates were lower, there was less crime, now that social programs have been gutted crimes because of poverty are again on the increase.
It is not unreasonable to say that non-socialist thought increases crime rates and our social history of the last 30 years shows that clearly.
Thu, 2011-02-24 12:55
#74
remind
Small bail conditions are no assurity for those showing up for court, suggesting such is ludicrous. Hell, large bail conditions are no assurity either.
Moreover, as a society we know, or should, that jail does not rehabilitate people and that we need to move beyond such right wing sociopathic thinking that it does, and into stronger social programs and anti-poverty strategies and stop wasting money on a system that does not work to benefit individuals, nor society at large.
Thu, 2011-02-24 13:08
#75
Snert
Small bail conditions are no assurity for those showing up for court, suggesting such is ludicrous. Hell, large bail conditions are no assurity either.
Do you mean that they're not an absolute guarantee? Yes, of course they're not. Nor are speeding fines.
Thu, 2011-02-24 13:12
#76
Snert
I suppose it's too much to ask you to consider whether justice is actually being served....
I am. *If* delays aren't caused solely by understaffing or lack of facilities (courthouses, etc.) then I would assume that delays would be procedural and that at least some of these would be to an accused's benefit (remand notwithstanding). I'm certainly not saying that it's OK to keep someone in remand for an undue amount of time, but I just don't have the facts on why.
ed'd to add, and to be clear: if the delays to trial are due to lack of courthouses, justices, counsel, or similar then I would absolutely say that money should be rerouted from building new prisons to ensuring sufficient courthouses, justices, counsel, etc. Absolutely.
That said, would the money for this actually come out of *Provincial* coffers?? Is the fact that provincial jails are used for federal remand a snafu? Is the federal budget for federal penitentiaries only, which would not ease any burdens on jails used for remand?
Especially given it costs more to house them, for 4 months as in sineed's example, than the gains of minor bail receipts.
Bail is a surety, not a means of revenue generation. Bail is to ensure that you show up for trial, and in some cases (accused is deemed a flight risk, for example) bail is not granted. And, as noted, others cannot raise the funds. What would you suggest, in lieu of a surety, to ensure that an accused shows up for trial?
Thu, 2011-02-24 13:44
#77
Is the fact that provincial jails are used for federal remand a snafu?
No; just to clarify, the feds incarcerate people sentenced to two years or more. You can deduce that some inmates will end up getting federal time (ie, a murder charge), but everybody is innocent until proven guilty. The sentence isn't predetermined, and it's the length of the sentence that is the entire criterion for determining whether the sentence is served federally or provincially. This is different from the USian system, where they have federal charges and state charges - and sometimes the same crime may be federal or state depending on (I think) jurisdictional matters (to be honest I don't know all the details of the USian system. Sometimes homicide is a federal crime and sometimes it is a state crime and I don't understand why).
Thu, 2011-02-24 13:57
#78
Especially given it costs more to house, for 4 months as in sineed's example, than the financial gains of minor bail receipts.
Bingo!
Besides this, my beef with the current system is the role of the accused's personal financial situation on the outcome of the case. Nasty psychopathic gangsters with lots of ill-gotten gains have the funds to hire attack dog lawyers that get them off the hook - there was a recent shameful case in Toronto where two of these walked free from a murder charge despite a credible witness because the lawyers were able to successfully cast aspersions on the credibility of this witness, a woman who suffered death threats and community ostracism in order to testify. The sight of two well-dressed white men haranguing and humiliating a young black woman was surely a red-letter day for Canadian justice.
Then there are my patients, the destitute and drug addicted, who steal bicycles, shoplift and sell small quantities of drugs to support their habits. And they spent months in jail.
Then there's the two doctors who are charged with drugging a young woman and raping her. Two more women have come forward since this charge was made public. They are out on bail, $100,000 each, which they easily met after about 24 hours of incarceration.
It seems that the current system doesn't use available resources to maximize community protection.
Thu, 2011-02-24 14:04
#79
alan smithee
You know if our prisons are over populated maybe REVIEWING current policy makes more sense...It would also be a hell of alot cheaper.
Again,the Cons have made it clear that they want to put more Canadians behind bars..Hence,we're looking at MORE prison over population AFTER spending billions on building more.
And,again,this legislation and plan to build more prisons has NOTHING to do with prison over population or making prisons safer for inmates and those who work inn the prison system.
It's all about putting more Canadians behind bars...Which part of it do you not understand?
And the FACT that Harper has already said he wants to police social norms and values is ideological and flirting with fascism.
You know the saying...'First they came for them....Then they came for me'
Thu, 2011-02-24 16:04
#80
Snert
It's all about putting more Canadians behind bars...Which part of it do you not understand?
I understand [i]your opinion[/i], but it's an opinion, not a fact. If I don't agree with one of your opinions, it's not a given that it's somehow beyond my abilities of reason.
Thu, 2011-02-24 19:34
#81
alan smithee
Anyone who dismisses the fact that the Reform Party who HAS SAID again and again and again that the whole purpose of building new prisons is to accomadate all the new arrests and criminals that their anti-crime bill will produce certainly has their heads planted firmly in their ass.
The Reform Party have been explicit about this and it's an agenda they are not hiding.
Also,Harper has said..Let me repeat this again...That he wants to police social norms and values.
A social 'norm' is a lifestyle...A 'value' is a belief.
Anyone who thinks individuals should be incriminated for leading a lifestyle or having different values than King Stephen's idea of 'proper' norms and values is NOT a progressive.
Stephen Harper is an Albertan seperatist...Not an opinion.
The Reform Party has stated over and over again..and in this issue they are so transparent that they are translucent...that the need for more prisons are for what they anticipate from their anti crime legislation....MORE arrests,more arraignments and more prisoners...Not an opinion.
Find ONE quote from Harper,Nicholson,Day or any other Reform Party henchman that the idea of building more prisons is to address over population..You're not going to find one...Not an opinion.
If you are so on side with Harper's hard on for imprisoning more Canadians,what are you doing on rabble?...You're not a progressive.
Why don't you phone a porcine Harper cheerleader like Charles Adler and maybe you could meet afterwards for a pint of hobo blood and a hippie sandwich.
Fri, 2011-02-25 02:30
#82
RevolutionPlease
This dude doesn't need jail?
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/02/24/17400116.html
Macleod said while Cheng's infidelity didn't justify An's attack on her, it explained the Calgary researcher's angry outburst.
"Dr. An was unable to control his emotions and his obsession with his wife's infidelity caused him to act in a brutish manner, which was totally out of character for him," the judge said.
"That he was unable to control his emotions in not excusable, but at some level it is sadly understandable."
The judge found An was extremely remorseful for his actions, quoting extensively from a statement from the killer read in court in which he expressed profound guilt for his conduct.
"He too was a victim of his own crime," Macleod said of An, who holds a medical degree and PhD.
"Never before have I witnessed a person convicted of a crime with such a sense of responsibility and guilt and recognition of the harm done."
Outside court, defence counsel Alain Hepner, who had proposed a five-year term, said he didn't believe such a punishment would send out the wrong message to potential domestic abusers.
Fri, 2011-02-25 09:31
#83
Snert
Why don't you phone a porcine Harper cheerleader like Charles Adler and maybe you could meet afterwards for a pint of hobo blood and a hippie sandwich.
OMG!! Hobo Blood Libel!
LOL!!!
Fri, 2011-02-25 11:04
#84
alan smithee
OMG!! Hobo Blood Libel!
LOL!!!
Seeing that you toe the Reform Party line of dismissing facts as 'opinions' , are you sure your name isn't Dimitri?
Fri, 2011-02-25 12:02
#85
Snert
The Reform Party ceased to exist in 2000. That's Wikipedia's opinion, anyway.
Fri, 2011-02-25 12:10
#86
alan smithee
You're right...They aren't the Reform Party..lol
Maybe you feel better being known as a Conservative but your buddy Harper is NOT a conservative..He's an ideologue and a fascist.
When the Reform Party and the Progressive Conservative party merged,the PCC ceased to exist.
But,in any case,Dimitri..Your esteemed leader is a Reform Party ideologue and since he calls all the shots,you can label yourselves anything you like but you are still and always will be the Reform Party.
Fri, 2011-02-25 12:20
#87
Snert
But,in any case,Dimitri..Your esteemed leader is a Reform Party ideologue and since he calls all the shots,you can label yourselves anything you like but you are still and always will be the Reform Party.
I vote NDP provincially and federally. And the sting of being called Dimitri is blunted by my not knowing who this Dimitri fellow even is. But otherwise, carry on.
Fri, 2011-02-25 12:30
#88
alan smithee
Dimitri Soudas..
And what self respecting NDPer would sit there with a straight face and defend Harper's wet dream of a police state?
Maybe the rumours that the NDP are right wing sympathizers is true.
Sat, 2011-06-25 21:26
#89
Boom Boom
Meanwhile, in the US: Private Prisons Spend Millions to Put More People in Jail
excerpt:
Wednesday, the Justice Policy Institute (JPI) released a report chronicling the political strategies of private prison companies “working to make money through harsh policies and longer sentences.”
excerpt:
The impact that the private prison industry has had is hard to deny. In Arizona, 30 of the 36 legislators who co-sponsored the state’s controversial immigration law that would undoubtedly put more immigrants behind bars received campaign contributions from private prison lobbyists or companies. Private prison businesses been involved in lobbying efforts related to a bill in Florida that would require privatizing all of the prisons in South Florida and have been heavily involved in appropriations bills on the federal level.
Sun, 2011-06-26 07:50
#90
You guys must have heard about this, eh?
http://articles.boston.com/2011-02-19/news/29336111_1_youth-lockups-dete...
"A former juvenile court judge was convicted yesterday of racketeering in a case that accused him of sending youth offenders to for-profit detention centers in exchange for millions of dollars in illicit payments from the builder and owner of the lockups."
Sun, 2011-06-26 11:20
#91
Boom Boom
Cross posted to BNR: Stephen Harper opens door to prison privatization (2007 article)
Sun, 2011-06-26 11:39
#92
Boom Boom
The Economist: The perverse incentives of private prisons
excerpt:
The great hazard of contracting out incarceration "services" is that private firms may well turn out to be even more efficient and effective than unions in lobbying for policies that would increase prison populations.
When we add to the mix the observations that America already puts a larger proportion of its population behind bars than does any other country (often for acts that ought to be legal), and that the US already spends an insane portion of national income on the largely non-productive garrison state, it is hard to see the expansion of a for-profit industry with a permanent interest in putting ever more people in cages as consistent with either efficiency or justice.
Sun, 2011-06-26 11:44
#93
N.Beltov
Comparing present-day USA with Stalinist Russia ... finds that the US is the country with the larger (%age and absolutely) prison population. This, from US sources BTW.
It's a very unusual country. And the Conservatives in our own country can't emulate them enough.
Sun, 2011-06-26 13:02
#94
Boom Boom
And the Conservatives in our own country can't emulate them enough.
Give them time. They have four years to undo everything progressive about this country, and take us to the Dark Ages.
Wed, 2011-09-07 03:21
#95
Conrad Black's Broadside Against Canada's Prison Plan
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1049439--conrad-black-s-broad...
"Black - who returns to prison Tuesday for another eight months after exhausting his appeals - has launched yet another broadside agaisnt the government's tougher sentencing bills, prison expansion plans, and prisoner control programs.
To Black, Canada is about to model the US prison system - which he describes as an inhumane and unjust factory farm that dehumanizes inmates, breeds an underclass that can never reintegrate and will exact a long term toll on society. Black says the penal system isolates and punishes for life 'a very large number of people who have been for the most part socioeconomically comparatively disadvantaged.'
Black said prisoners, packed like sardines and ignored by all except 'corrupt' prison guards, are 'bound to be relatively despised and underutilized by society. Black told the Globe and Mail the Harper government approach is 'sadistic and malicious'. He told the CBC it is 'barbarous'."
experience teaches like nothing else can...it is 'sadistic, malicious and barbarous' - and the PTB like it that way..
Wed, 2011-09-07 07:22
#96
Boom Boom
Coming from Black, maybe this will force the Cons to sit up and take notice? 
Sun, 2011-09-11 15:53
#97
Sun, 2011-09-11 20:29
#98
infracaninophile
IIRC, the U.S. prison corporation is called Wackenhut. I'm having a brain cramp here, perhaps someone else can recall details: when Harris brought in his "boot camp" detention centre for young offenders, wasn't that contracted out to some private outfit? I don't think it was Wackenhut, but somebody. Or I may be confusing that failed venture with some other one. I knew someone who worked there, it was a screw-up from start to finish.
Mon, 2011-10-17 18:58
#99
The boot camp models don't work ..they end up teaching the prisoners good fighting techniques ..physical fitness and training that they end up using against newly trained officers when they get out....
What does work is the quota system, especially when you have lots of prison beds to fill for profit.. Here is how one juisdiction handles quotas..
Wake up Occupy Canada or you will be occupying Harpers prison colony's making the 1% of investors even richer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc
Sun, 2011-11-20 22:22
#100
Boom Boom
Just read this on Facebook: "jails are the Conservative version of social programs".
Mon, 2011-11-21 21:23
#101
Just read this on Facebook: "jails are the Conservative version of social programs".
Like!