(NATO) Imperialists Hands Off Libya! II
'Gaddafi's al-Qaeda Excuse Is A Joke'
"Libyan leader ruler Muammar Gaddafi has warned of a 'bloodbath' and a 'very long war' in the country if the west decides to take direct mlitary action against his regime.."
Tahrir square wanted Mubarak out, a new constitution and the end to the state of emergency. So would I. They have had revolutionary rhetoric for decades, and found it a dead-end, ending with Chavez propping up pal Khadafi. Uggh.
Indeed they do want a new constitution. It is nice of you to presume they want it to be a western style one. I prefer to wait to see what the people themselves will decide if they ever get to have a voice. I unfortunately think the new military dictatorship will ensure whatever facade that is created will always result in pro-west parties winning. You know like democracy in Lebanon and Palestine where the locals are told they can vote for any party except those who do not like Israel or the US.
I read about Chavez's dumb and anti-democratic comments on Gaddafi and Libya but failed to see the news on how he was propping Gaddafi up. Care to post those links for us? Is he sending arms during the dispute? Making plans to send troops? What exactly is he doing except running off at the mouth and damaging his international credibility.
US-NATO Threats to Libyan Sovereignty - by Antonio E Paris
"It would also be an illusion to expect that the stooges of imperialism among the protesters - the NFSL, the monarchists, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other pliant groups would support real democratic change in Libya. No to imperialist intervention in Libya!"
PKP 1930 The Phillipines
Thanks for proving my point.
Chavez and others are quite right to draw attention to the plans and likely actions of the NATO countries. That part of his remarks don't discredit him at all.
al-Qa'bong wrote:Quote:Tucson Arazona? Ha, they'd never make it through Texas...
Remember the Alamo? That lithograph is from the battle of Halls of Montezuma in the US-Mexican war, you know, the one where the US stole half of Mexico (including Arizona) from the Mexicans.
[humor]Just WOW, all I can do is shake my head....LOL
You've got the Texas Revolution of 1835 to 1836 and the Mexican War 1846 to 1848 mixed up into big pile of Canadian goo... The rest is a matter of opinion; you'd find mine VERY biased so we'd be wasting our time even talking about it.[/humor]
Bah, they were the same war, just different campaigns, much as the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1981, "Operation Desert Storm®,"the attack on Iraq in 2003 and "Operation Cast Lead®," in 2009 have been campaigns in the same war.
Thanks for proving my point.
And don't forget the [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/conservatives-cut-canadas-role-in-world][=o...' botched evacuation efforts in Libya,[/color][/url] - and Tory cuts to:
- the the International Policy Advice and Integration program
- diplomatic policy capacity, Consular Services, the Peace Implementation Council,
- the International Atomic Energy Agency and funding to the International Criminal Court (ICC), and
- even Canada’s contributions to the United Nations and Peacekeeping operations are on the chopping block.
...with The Liberal Party of Bananada Inc. backing them up all the way since 2006. Our colonial administrative stoogeaucracy in phony minority government and phony opposition in Ottawa will continue deferring all foreign policy matters to Warshington. DAY-O! Banana anyone?
Foreign policy - including the increasing threat of military intervention - is being driven by what the media is reporting from Libya, and that is being driven largely by reports from the opposition, some of which are true, some of them dubious. The Libyan government says that. But for once, in the midst of all the regime's evasions, lies and fantastical notions, it may just have a point.
We are being drawn into a crisis where credible information about so much of what is happening is not simply at a premium, it is often impossible to mine from among all the exaggerations and misinformation. If proof of this were necessary, it was provided by the foreign secretary, William Hague, when he announced he had information that suggested Gaddafi had flown to Venezuela.
The reality is that we are rushing to make policy on Libya without knowing precisely what is happening here. That is not to say we do not know some of the broad details. Yes, people are being killed for demonstrating against the regime. People, too, are being taken from their homes amid a widespread policy of intimidation. Human rights abuses are unquestionably being committed. But it is a question of scale. And there is a requirement for a response that fits the reality of what is happening and does not exacerbate the country's problems, or the region's.
We should admit our ignorance and own it as we try to determine what is happening in Libya. When we have determined the reality of what we are dealing with then perhaps, and only then, can we talk seriously about appropriate measures to respond to it.
Sounds as if Fidel Castro was right to counsel against jumping to conclusions.
The Real News: Supporting Libyan Revolution - Opposing Foreign Intervention: Prof. Hamid Dabashi: Intervention In Libya is imperialism, Chavez peace talks, etc (and vid)
Thanks for proving my point.
I am strongly in favour of their democratic aims and tactics; you can call them "platitudes", but yes, multiparty elections and political transparency are what Tahrir square wanted.
And in Libya, yes, Khadaffi out, NOW. You can hum and haw along with Chavez, calling for negotiations that imply moral equivalence and evoking some non-existent Western plot directing the rebels, but no doubt negotiations between the 42-year dictator and freedom fighters are a non-starter. Tomorrow inchala they're in Tripoli, bravo...
You obviously missed the fact that the platitudes I was referring to are the ones I mentioned in my post — the dismissive nonsense about "revolutionary utopia", etc.
Your positions and your rhetoric are indistinguishable from Clinton's.
'Kenya, Niger, Mali Troops Support Ghaddafi'
"The National Libyan Council, the interim government in 'liberated Libya' is claiming that Kenya, Niger, Mali have sent regular troops to assist the Ghaddafi regime. Council Spokesperson Hafiz Ghoga at a press conference in Benghazi, the main city in 'liberated Libya' made tough accusations against several African states and urged the UN to bomb the 'African mercenaries of Ghaddafi'. The National Libyan Council spokesman further claimed that there was strong evidence that 'the government of Algeria' was supplying the alleged African offensive aginst the people of Libya.
There had earlier been rumours of 'mercenaries' being brought into Libya over the Algerian border in the southwest. The statement by the National Libyan Council, urging the killing of 'African mercenaries' and claiming African governments involvment, are the most extreme anti-African statements made so far in the 'liberated' area of the country. Earlier Afrol News had documented how a wave of racism throughout 'liberated Libya' has caused a witch hunt of sub-Saharan Africans, with arbitrary arrests of African-looking persons and occasional lynch-mobs killing Africans.
'There are outrageous and malicious reports.' The Chadian Ministry of Foreign Affairs is protesting aginst these serious charges, whose consequences 'could be dire for thousands of Chadians living in the territory of Libya, Foreign Minister Mahamat said..."
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23518]NATO’s Inevitable War: The Flood of Lies regarding Libya[/url] by Fidel Castro Ruz
In contrast with what is happening in Egypt and Tunisia, Libya occupies the first spot on the Human Development Index for Africa and it has the highest life expectancy on the continent. Education and health receive special attention from the State. The cultural level of its population is without a doubt the highest. Its problems are of a different sort. The population wasn’t lacking food and essential social services. The country needed an abundant foreign labour force to carry out ambitious plans for production and social development.
For that reason, it provided jobs for hundreds of thousands of workers from Egypt, Tunisia, China and other countries. It had enormous incomes and reserves in convertible currencies deposited in the banks of the wealthy countries from which they acquired consumer goods and even sophisticated weapons that were supplied exactly by the same countries that today want to invade it in the name of human rights. ...
It's a very good essay on the situation in Libya.
It's a very good essay on the situation in Libya.
... which is why I posted it on March 3 at #8 above. And NDPP posted the sequel on March 4 at #29 above. But it's all worth a second read.
I had this feeling I was committing an error. Oh well good vibes back at ya.
8 British Troops Captured in Libya
Eight British soldiers have been captured in eastern Libya as they escorted a senior diplomat through territory under the control of revolutionary forces. According to a report published by The Sunday Times, the unexpected presence of a British special forces unit along with the diplomat 'angered Libyan opposition figures, who ordered the soldiers to be locked up...'"
That's different. Looks good on them.
ouch, my centre-left position on Libya like Hillary's? .. horrors:
for once, she has called things right
On another note, once liberated, my guess is that a free Libya could "pull a Czechoslovakia":
in the old Russian empire, the Czechs were the most predictable and ideologically reliable at riding shotgun for Brezhnev and the Soviets, speaking out for them, selling guns discreetly when needed etc.;
now, following Vaclav Havel, the independent Czechs have made it their national mission to speak bluntly to the Castro Bros. hegemony, which they do in every human rights and diplomatic forum, esp at the European Union; they've been there, done that, know what it's like to have an immovable hierarchy.
today in Libya, after 42 years of hearing the same anti-Western anti-imperialist pan-Arab diatribes of the Great Libyan Arab Socialist Jamahiriya -- morning, noon and night -- young people there are likely innoculated to that stuff; the Facebook warriors in Egypt and Tunisia certainly seem to be.
a free Libya could be diplomatically unpredictable; let's hope there's a Mandela in there somewhere; Libya, the Sweden of the Arab League? --Stranger things have happened in modern history.
Interesting times; go freedom fighters, Inchalla you take Sirte this week ....
You were inoculated too, I see.
Mali Tribesmen Join Pro-Gaddafi Forces
"Tribesmen from the Tuareg community of Africa's northwestern country of Mali have joined the forces supporting embattled Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, a media report said. A large number of men from the ethnic group left Mali last week to join pro-Gaddafi forces in Libya, an unnamed official told BBC in Mali. 'They are being paid about $10,000 to join up and then I've heard they are being told they will get $1000 a day to fight,' the official said."
Libyan Warplanes Bomb Oil Rich Towns
"Libyan warplanes have targeted the oil-rich city of Res Lanuf as forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi launched counter-strikes in an attempt to take back strategic towns.."
West's Fear - Gaddafi Wants Civil War
"I think Obama and the West are going to straddle this situation. Obama is the champion of the status quo. I think what you're looking at is a 'stalemate'. It's becoming more and more like a stalemate right now...and a protracted civil war, and he has the cards all in his favor. And we're not about to step in there and force him out. That's not going to happen.."
British FM: Libyan Rebels Release Captured SAS Troops
British Troops Sent to 'Offer Help' After Repeated Warnings Against Foreign Meddling
by Jason Ditz, March 05, 2011
Update 3/6 12:57 PM: Foreign Secretary William Hague is reporting that the SAS troops as well as the diplomat “have now left Libya.” He insisted that the British government would send more diplomatic teams to East Libya “in due course.”
Sometimes no really means no....