(NATO) Imperialists Hands Off Libya! II

NDPP wrote:

David Cameron wrote:

...those who commit crimes against humanity will not go unpunished..."

unless they're British PMs..

Libyan warplanes strike rebels at oil port

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/ap_on_re_af/af_libya

Quote:

There were no casualties in Monday's airstrike on Ras Lanouf, which came one day after pro-regime forces pounded opposition fighters with helicopter gunships, artillery and rockets to stop the rebels' rapid advance toward Tripoli.

Mohamad Samir, an army colonel fighting with the rebels, said his forces are expecting reinforcements from the east.

Video of this weekend's fighting...

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/24433631#video=24437517

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/24433631#video=24433631

Libyan Rebels Welcome News of Fresh Arms and Troops

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/libyan-rebels-w...

..."A more senior rebel commander, Colonel Mohammed Samir, 50, said the troops were also happy to hear about the appointment of a new defense minister, Omar Hariri. 'He spent a lot of years in jail, he was tortured, he hates Gadhafi and we trust him,' he said. In the days before he took charge of the rebel's military operations, Mr Hariri told the Globe and Mail that the rebels could defeat Col Gadhafi within 10 days if foreign air power restrained the regime's aircraft. 'There's only one way to avoid bloodshed: cruise missiles,' Mr. Hariri said...

A man wearing traditional Libyan robes stood up during the press conference and criticized the council's position: 'If Gadhafi is sending foreign mercenaries to kill us, why are you against foreign intervention to save us?"

US and Allies Step up Military and Intelligence Operations in Libya

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/liby-m07

"British efforts are part of a multi-faceted operation to construct a new Libyan regime that can suppress popular opposition and ensure that the major oil companies, banks and corporations have access to Libya's resources. Washington is seking to exploit the mass opposition to Gaddafi to install a new client regime that will enable it to position its political and military assets to prop up reactionary regimes across North Africa and the Middle East - including Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain and Oman - that are being rocked by popular uprisings."

America's Secret Plan to Arm Libya's Rebels  - by Robert Fisk

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/americas-secret-plan...

"Desperate to avoid US military intervention in Libya in the event of a prolonged struggle between the Gaddafi regime and its opponents, the Americans have asked Saudi Arabia if it can supply weapons to the rebels in Benghazi. Their assistance woujld allow Washington to disclaim any military involvement in the supply chain - even though the arms would be American and paid for by the Saudis.."

Obama Says Military Option Still Under Consideration

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Obama-Says-Military-Option-Still-und...

"President Barack Obama says a wide range of potential options in Libya are under consideration, including a military response to the fighting there. He said the Libyan leader, Col Moammar Gadhafi, and his loyalists will be held accountable for continuing violence. 'In the meantime, we've got NATO, as we speak, consulting in Brussels around a wide range of options in response to the violence that continues to take place inside of Libya,' the president said.

In a briefing with reporters at the White House, spokesman Jay Carney said the main military options under consideration are establishing a no-fly zone, enforcing a UN arms embargo and probably humanitarian aid options.."

NDPP wrote:

'Gaddafi's al-Qaeda Excuse Is A Joke'

That's right, only the west is allowed to trot-out the al-CIA'da bogeyman when they need a culprit.  Strategia della tensione Inc created Elvis bin Laden and the invisible army of darkness. They know it's bullshit. Gadaffi and the Gladio Gang all know Qaeda doesn't exist.

Obviously the long choke-chains from above all pull the same way here...Perhaps this is the reason why suddenly this little choir in Ottawa is singing so sweetly in harmony:

'Gaddafi Agrees to Conditional Surrender'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/168687.html

"Embattled Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi has reportedly expressed his readiness to hand over power to the revolutionary National Council on his own terms. Gaddafi has dispatched his special envoy to hold talks with the interim National Council based in Benghazi, Saudi-owned daily Asharq al-Aswat reported citing sources..."

Gaddafi: Crackdown Modeled After Israel

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/168680.html

"Embattled Libyan Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi has compared his brutal crackdown on protesters with Israel's 2009 war on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. 'Even the Israelis in Gaza, when they moved into the Gaza Strip, they moved in with tanks to fight such extremists. It's the same thing here,' France 24 quoted Gaddafi as saying...'We have small armed groups who are fighting us. We did not use force from the outset...armed units of the Libyan army have had to fight small armed Al Qaeda bands. That is what's happened,' Gaddafi said."

how to win friends and influence people..NOT

I was shocked to find an email in my mailbox from Avaaz.org, calling for a "no fly zone", i.e. a shock and awe campaign against Libya. How else can NATO accomplish their goal without blowing up everything in sight in the name of "humane intervention". I wrote to Avaaz to express my disgust with their position. As for the NDP, you would have thought they might have learned something after Yugoslavia which is now a toxic soup of poisonous chemicals and depleted uranium. 

Establishing a no-fly zone over Libya will set the worst kind of precedent. Got a bunch of people protesting in Venezuela? Bolivia? Cuba? Send in the air force, destroy the country's infrastructure, kill a few thousand innocent people in whose name you're doing the bombing, install a new puppet regime and voila - instant democracy - US-style. 

I suspect that the announcement of possible negotiations on a Gadhafi exit-stragegy will hurry that no fly zone/ bomb Libya agenda along, lest the Libyans get control of their country back before the West can intervene. I have no doubt also that the hungry West has its own ducks set up on the Libyan Opposition Council as well. It's not looking good for the Libyan revolution at this point:

Rebels Set Demands For Gaddafi Exit

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201138133847222111.html

"The head of the national opposition council says there were indirect talks with people from Tripoli, who were given the green light from the regime, she said. 'But the spokesman for the opposition council denied any of that. He says no one can bargain for the blood spilt during the 42 years of Gaddafi's leadership or the money that is owed to the Libyan people. "There is a very chaotic picture coming out here and it could backfire in the face of the opposition council.' She also said there was no optimism there following news of the ultimatum from the rebels.

'People are worried it will move towards civil war which will continue months on end. There is a realisation that there is no institution in this country, that you have to avoid chaos..There is no more euphoria of a revolution, she added."

Gadhafi is safe for now; fighting turns in his favor.

Gadhafi forces hammer rebels on eastern front. Air power and heavy artillery takes it's toll on rebels.

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110308/ap_on_re_af/af_libya

Quote:

After dramatic successes over the past weeks, Libya's rebel movement appears to have hit a wall of overwhelming power from loyalists of Moammar Gadhafi. Pro-regime forces halted its drive on Tripoli with a heavy barrage of rockets in the east and threatened Tuesday to recapture the closest rebel-held city to the capital in the west.

Looks like the rebel steamroller has run out of steam... for now.

Quote:

The rebels seem to have reached a point of their campaign where they need to figure out how to organize resupply lines and avoid becoming easy targets for warplanes in their march across the open desert region with little cover. The extent of their westward reach is a checkpoint about six miles (10 kilometers) west of Ras Lanouf.

M. Spector wrote:

Sounds as if Fidel Castro was right to counsel against jumping to conclusions.

Yet it sounds like a lot of people are still jumping to conclusions, declaring that Libya is about to become the 51st American state or something.

The latest news from reality suggests that no one is really too keen on intervening - and it certainly won't be coming soon:

Montreal Gazette - Gadhaffi Defiant as West Mulls Action

Quote:

As pressure grew from inside Libya and elsewhere in the Arab world for a no-fly zone, the White House said U.S. President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron had agreed to press forward with planning a range of possible responses.

These included surveillance, humanitarian assistance, enforcement of the arms embargo and a no-fly zone, the White House said.

Cameron said the world could not stand aside while Gadhafi did "terrible things" to the Libyan people. "We have got to prepare for what we might have to do if he goes on brutalizing his own people," he added.

A senior UN official in New York said the Security Council had discussed the no-fly zone being pushed for by Britain and France especially to keep Gadhafi's air force grounded.

Washington has been markedly less enthusiastic about a no-fly zone. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Tuesday, "We think it is important that the United Nations make that decision."

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/opinion/09wed1.html]Handwringing over imperialist intervention from the [i]New York Times[/i][/url]

Quote:

President Obama was talking tough again on Monday, warning that the West is considering all options, including military intervention. Just a day before, his chief of staff, William Daley, complained that "lots of people throw around phrases like no-fly zone; they talk about it as though it's just a video game." A few days earlier, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said a no-fly zone could require a huge, prolonged operation, an argument challenged by some military planners.

We are not eager to see the United States involved in another conflict in the Muslim world. Sending in American troops would be a disaster. But some way must be found to support Libya's uprising and stop Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi from slaughtering his people. On Tuesday, his forces appeared to be gaining momentum as they again turned warplanes against the opposition.

Even with overwhelming air superiority, preventing Libyan warplanes from flying would entail some risk for American and NATO pilots. And what happens if Colonel Qaddafi holds on? Will the United States and its allies continue to patrol the skies?

When the United States, Britain and France imposed an air cap over Iraq after the 1991 gulf war, they grounded airplanes and helicopters and stopped the massacres of Kurds in the north and Shiites in the south. It went on for 12 years.

The United States must not act on its own.

Polunatic2 wrote:

I was shocked to find an email in my mailbox from Avaaz.org, calling for a "no fly zone", i.e. a shock and awe campaign against Libya. How else can NATO accomplish their goal without blowing up everything in sight in the name of "humane intervention". I wrote to Avaaz to express my disgust with their position.

That was my response as well when I read their email request yesterday. Told them this was all helping the West to occupy and steal Libyan oil, and that if they didn't know this they were either incompetent or corrupt but either way I didn't want to have anything more to do with them. I doubt if they care what I think, they have millions that will click on any cause they are handed by Avaaz.

There is a case to be made for protecting the Mediteranian and earth's atmosphere.

Gaddafi is as least as nuts as Saddam. It is no stretch to imagine Gaddafi breaking open the pipelines, setting the oil fields on fire and spilling the port stores of oil into the Mediteranian if he feels the world has rebuked him.

It wouldn't be a pretty picture: Thick black smoke from North Africa across Europe, maybe all the way to England [depending on winds], oil slicks from the Suez to Gibraltar.

Besides helping the right side - common people Vs Brutal Dictator [whose only supporters are paid for their allegiance], sending in outside help for the rebels and capturing Gaddafi would reduce the risk of yet another major ecological catastrophe.

Gaddafi Envoy on Mission in Europe

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/169111.html

"One of Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi's closest aides is on a mission in Egypt amid surging clashes between government forces and protesters in Libyan cities. There are reports that two of Gaddafi's private jets have left Libya for the Austrian capital city of Vienna and the Greek capital, Athens. The Libyan government has reportedly sent other envoys to Brussels for talks with EU and NATO officials..."

BBC - France recognises Libyan rebels

Quote:

France has become the first country to recognise the Libyan rebel leadership, the National Libyan Council (NLC), as the country's legitimate government.

. . .

On Thursday the office of President Nicolas Sarkozy said France regarded the NLC as Libya's "legitimate representative".

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23548]Insurrection and Military Intervention: The US-NATO Attempted Coup d'Etat in Libya?[/url]

Michel Chossudovsky wrote:

This is not a non-violent protest movement as in Egypt and Tunisia.

Correct.  It started as a non-violent protest movement but became an armed rebellion in response to the state's violent repression.

Fidel wrote:

Michel Chossudovsky wrote:

The armed insurgency in Eastern Libya is directly supported by foreign powers.

No evidence of this has been seen.  Some rebels have requested a no-fly zone, which may or may not be forthcoming, while some have forsworn a no-fly zone.  UK troops have been turned away.

Fidel wrote:

Michel Chossudovsky wrote:

The insurrection in Benghazi immediately hoisted the red, black and green banner with the crescent and star: the flag of the monarchy of King Idris, which symbolized the rule of the former colonial powers.

Actually, that would be the flag of the Kingdom of Libya, an independant state:

This would be the flag that symbolises the former colonial powers, and I doubt it has been spotted in rebel territory:

Gadhafi showers strategic oil port with rockets

Looks like Gadhafi is turning more and more of the heavy stuff on civilian targets.

Quote:

Taking back Ras Lanouf would be a major victory for Gadhafi, reestablishing his power over a badly damaged but vital oil facility and pushing his zone of control further along the main coastal highway running from rebel territory to the capital, Tripoli.

A rebel governing council spokesman said Gadhafi's air force, army and navy had bombarded Ras Lanouf, targeting the main hospital, mosques and civilian areas.

"The regime that has lost legitimacy is practicing a scorched earth policy," spokesman Abdel-Hafidh Ghoga said. "We have requested for all steps to be taken to protect the Libyan people. We believe the U.N. can do that."

The rebel hospital in the eastern town of Brega said four were confirmed dead in the fighting, 35 were wounded and 65 were missing.

The international Red Cross said dozens of civilians have been wounded or killed in recent days in grueling battles between Gadhafi's army and the opposition.

"We need help from the international community, but we just hear promises," said Mohammed Ali Al Zuaiee, a 48-year-old rebel fighter. "They are doing nothing."

The main hospital in Ras Lanouf was hit by artillery or an airstrike and the rebels are pulling their staff out and evacuating patients to the towns of Brega and Ajdabiya, said Gebril Hewada, a doctor on the opposition's health committee in the main eastern city of Benghazi.

GADDAFI WILL PREVAIL--US SPY CHIEF

Quote:

Gaddafi is "hunkering down," showing no inclination to cede power, and "we believe Gaddafi is in this for the long haul," U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told a U.S. Senate hearing.

Clapper said he expected Gaddafi's forces, with better equipment and logistics, would prevail over the long term.

He's probably right. Saddly enough the lesson learned from this story is going to be if a dictator can get enough of his security forces to fire on the people he can survive.

What political sphere was Gaddafi in again?

M. Spector wrote:

The Kingdom of Libya was a client state of colonial powers - mostly British. Your quibble with Chossudovsky is quite wrong.

You are quit wrong as well... Libya was an Italian client state, not British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya_as_Italian_colony

Are you saying the Rebels are fighting to put Libya back as a colony?

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Quote:

Gaddafi is as least as nuts as Saddam.

 

What is this with westerners slagging oriental despots as crazy men (remember So-Damn Insane, before his country was logically pulverised by rational invaders?)? Another babbler called Hosni Mubarak a "whackjob" a few weeks ago. Is being a ruthless tyrant not sufficient; we have to accuse these guys of insanity as well? Why them alone, though? Do those who gravitate to leadership positions in Arab countries by necessity have to be nuts?

Have you read any of Gaddafi's speaches of late? He thinks he is convincing people that his authority if valid because, in his words, "My enemies are all on drugs, they are drunk". 

 Of course, he is just posturing, right? Maybe not - he seems to believe it. His EGO is getting in the way of rational thought. What more do you need to see he is insane.

 By the way, Mubarak was not "nuts", he was just a brutal dictator. He stepped down, got out. He never made rambling 2 hour speaches to an empty UN session.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

The Kingdom of Libya was a client state of colonial powers - mostly British. Your quibble with Chossudovsky is quite wrong.

You are quit wrong as well... Libya was an Italian client state, not British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya_as_Italian_colony

The monarchy of King Idris, which is what we were talking about, came after the Italians had relinquished control over Libya, as a result of a little thing I like to call World War II. Read your wikipedia article again:

Quote:

In 1944, Idris returned from exile in Cairo but declined to resume permanent residence in Cyrenaica until the removal in 1947 of some aspects of foreign control. Under the terms of the 1947 peace treaty with the Allies, [b]Italy[/b], which hoped to maintain the colony of Tripolitania, (and France, which wanted the Fezzan), [b]relinquished all claims to Libya[/b]. Libya so remained united.

Idris later became king and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idris_of_Libya]ruled from 1951 to 1969.[/url] He was a client of the British, and a foe of the Italians.

Quote:

[b]During World War II, Idris supported the United Kingdom[/b] and brought the Cyrenaican nationalists to fight alongside the Allies against the Axis. With the defeat of the German and Italian forces led by Erwin Rommel, he was finally able to return to his capital, Benghazi, as Emir of Cyrenaica and form an official government.

[b]With British backing[/b], Idris as-Senussi proclaimed an independent Emirate of Cyrenaica in 1949. He was also invited to become Emir of Tripolitania, another of the three traditional regions that now constitute modern Libya (the third being Fezzan). By accepting he began the process of uniting Libya under a single monarchy. A consitution was enacted in 1949 and adopted in October 1951. A National Congress elected Idris as King of Libya, and as Idris I he proclaimed the independence of the United Kingdom of Libya as a sovereign state on 24 December 1951.

Bec.de.Corbin wrote:

Are you saying the Rebels are fighting to put Libya back as a colony?

Um, no... Are you saying the rebels are fighting to restore King Idris to the throne?

M. Spector wrote:

Bec.de.Corbin wrote:

Are you saying the Rebels are fighting to put Libya back as a colony?

Um, no... Are you saying the rebels are fighting to restore King Idris to the throne?

Exactly, they're not (and even if they were, who cares?).  More likely, the flag of the Kingdom of Libya is simply the only alternative to Ghadaffi's flag that they have and Chossudovsky is foolish to read anything else into.

You may as well claim that Quebec sovereigntists flying the fleur-de-lis are looking to restore the House of Bourbon to power.

Gaddafi's Son Threatens All-Out Attacks

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/169237.html

"Embattled Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi's son has said it is about to launch full-scale military attacks against anti-government forces...Said al-Islam said on Thursday that unrestrained assaults will soon be carried out as there is no room for further negotiations with opposition forces.."

Gaddafi will be allowed to do his bloody work, by the West as it can only improve their own eventual intervention, once opposition forces have been 'softened up' and no longer in a position to dictate terms and conditions of western involvement.