Bradley Manning and Wikileaks

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Catchfire wrote:

Yes, well, sadly, that's a game I won't be playing with you. Don't call other babblers "sick fucks." That's about all you need to take away from this.

I didn't call any babblers sick fucks.

And this is not a game.

Pogo Pogo's picture

No one that I have seen here has defended the abuse that is happening to Bradley Manning. 

 

 

"I hardly think Svend's few hours or whatever in custody compares to prolonged systematic abuse."

 

Svend went to prison for a significant time, a few weeks. But that wasn't the comparison.

MegB

M. Spector wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Yes, well, sadly, that's a game I won't be playing with you. Don't call other babblers "sick fucks." That's about all you need to take away from this.

I didn't call any babblers sick fucks.

And this is not a game.

Yeah, you did actually.  In fact, a search of your most recent posts has turned up a treasure trove of direct and implied insults.  So stop it already.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Bradley Manning Humiliated and Abused: Why Is Exposing a War Crime More Dangerous Than Committing One?

Quote:
Bradley Manning is accused of humiliating the political establishment by revealing the complicity of top U.S. officials in carrying out and covering up war crimes. In return for his act of conscience, the U.S. government is holding him in abusive solitary confinement, humiliating him and trying to keep him behind bars for life.

The lesson is clear, and soldiers take note: You're better off committing a war crime than exposing one....

In fact, the record indicates Manning would be far better off today - possibly on the lecture circuit rather than in solitary confinement - if he'd killed those men in Baghdad himself.

Hyperbole? Consider what happened to the U.S. soldiers who, over a period of hours - not minutes - went house to house in the Iraqi town of Haditha and executed 24 men, women and children in retaliation for a roadside bombing.

"I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head," said one of the two surviving eyewitnesses to the massacre, nine-year-old Eman Waleed. "Then they killed my granny." Almost five years later, not one of the men involved in the incident is behind bars. And despite an Army investigation revealing that statements made by the chain of command "suggest that Iraqi civilian lives are not as important as U.S. lives," with the murder of brown-skinned innocents considered "just the cost of doing business," none of their superiors are behind bars either.

NDPP

Bradley Manning Now 'Catatonic': Obama ENOUGH!

http://warisacrime.org/content/bradley-manning-now-catatonic-obama-enough

"As Obama's crime of the destruction of Bradley Manning continues to unfold before our very eyes, Manning's friend David House now tells us that over 8 months in isolation with movement and sleep restrictions placed on him have been having their intended effect. House told MSNBC that by the end of January Manning appeared 'catatonic'...

All for the crime of reporting war crimes and criminal behaviour even among the highest-ranking officers in Iraq.."

webform to Whitehouse letters : please help

NDPP

Stripped Naked Every Night, Bradley Manning Tells of Prison Ordeal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/11/stripped-naked-bradley-manni...

"Bradley Manning, the US soldier being held in solitary confinement on suspicion of having released state secrets to WikiLeaks, has spoken out for the first time about what he claims is his punitive and unlawful treatment in military prison.."

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Margaret Kimberley wrote:
If members of the Norwegian Nobel committee do not feel embarrassment for making Barack Obama a peace prize laureate, then they are as shameless as the man they foolishly chose to honor. Barack Obama is every bit the authoritarian as his predecessor George W. Bush. He too believes in his right to declare anyone an enemy combatant and restrict their rights to due process. He too has cracked down on whistle blowers and is determined to ferret them out and punish them.

The continued psychological torture of Pfc. Bradley Manning is the latest case in point....

Manning's one hour [per day] outside of his cell allows him only to walk in circles in another room. He is denied the use of sheets and now is forced to sleep naked and stand naked outside of his cell when it is inspected....

Among the files which Manning allegedly leaked is a video showing American soldiers shooting a Reuters photographer and his driver, and an innocent bystander and his young children, and then laughing as an already dead body is crushed by an armored vehicle. The soldiers also enjoy themselves. They are positively gleeful about committing murder, laughing at their victims and pleading with their superiors to allow them to kill more people.

Anyone who reveals this grotesque behavior becomes a de facto enemy of the state. It was so during the Bush administration and now it is so as Obama sits in the oval office. [b]Ultimately, Barack Obama is responsible for Manning's treatment. Even if he did not directly order it, he certainly is aware of it now, and if it continues, it is because he wants it to.[/b]

[url=http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-peace-prize-tortu...

NDPP

the latest 'de facto enemy of the state' is PJ Crowley US Foreign Affairs representative, forced to resign, apparently because of remarks he made criticizing the treatment of Manning by the US Military.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Yep:

[url=http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/13/crowley/ind... fires P.J. Crowley for condemning abuse of Manning[/url]

Glenn Greenwald wrote:
On Friday, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley denounced the conditions of Bradley Manning's detention as "ridiculous, counterproductive and stupid," forcing President Obama to address those comments in a Press Conference and defend the treatment of Manning. Today, CNN reports, Crowley has "abruptly resigned" under "pressure from White House officials because of controversial comments he made last week about the Bradley Manning case." [b]In other words, he was forced to "resign" -- i.e., fired.[/b]

So, in Barack Obama's administration, it's perfectly acceptable to abuse an American citizen in detention who has been convicted of nothing by consigning him to 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, barring him from exercising in his cell, punitively imposing "suicide watch" restrictions on him against the recommendations of brig psychiatrists, and subjecting him to prolonged, forced nudity designed to humiliate and degrade. But speaking out against that abuse is a firing offense. Good to know. As Matt Yglesias just put it: "Sad statement about America that P.J. Crowley is the one being forced to resign over Bradley Manning." And as David Frum added: "Crowley firing: one more demonstration of my rule: Republican pols fear their base, Dem pols despise it."

Of course, it's also the case in Barack Obama's world that those who instituted a worldwide torture and illegal eavesdropping regime are entitled to full-scale presidential immunity, while powerless individuals who blow the whistle on high-level wrongdoing and illegality are subjected to the most aggressive campaign of prosecution and persecution the country has ever seen. [b]So protecting those who are abusing Manning, while firing Crowley for condemning the abuse, is perfectly consistent with the President's sense of justice.[/b]

politicalnick

I believe there are reports that they will not seek the death penalty. The maximum he can be senteced to in that case is 55 years.

I personally think he is a hero for humanity in exposing US sponsored torture and human rights violations but he should have stuck to that and not released meaningless, unrelated documents.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

So his great crime was releasing "meaningless unrelated" documents?

At this point, the death penalty would be a more humane prospect than the alternative Manning faces - being driven insane and tortured for the rest of his life.

Quote:
If another country were meting out similarly sadistic treatment to a captured American POW, the Pentagon and the American media would be howling about war crimes. But Manning's treatment has been largely blacked out of the corporate-controlled mass media.

[url=http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/mann-m12.shtml]WSWS[/url]

politicalnick

M. Spector wrote:

So his great crime was releasing "meaningless unrelated" documents?

No, his big crime was catching the yanks with their pants down and exposing them to the world as duplicitous arrogant SOB's. The document release is all they have an actual law against.

NDPP

How the So-Called Guardians of Free Speech Are Silencing the Messenger  - by John Pilger

http://www.zcommunications.org/how-the-so-called-guardians-of-free-speec...

"Reality is no longer what the powerful say it is. Of all the spectacular revolts across the world, the most exciting is the insurrection of knowledge sparked by WikiLeaks. The heroic Bradley Manning is kept naked under lights and cameras 24 hours a day. Greg Barns, director of the Australian Lawyers Alliance, says the fears that Julian Assange will 'end up being tortured in a high security American prison', are justified. Who will take responsibility for such a crime?"

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

politicalnick wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

So his great crime was releasing "meaningless unrelated" documents?

No, his big crime was catching the yanks with their pants down and exposing them to the world as duplicitous arrogant SOB's. The document release is all they have an actual law against.

Perhaps you could explain to us all how Manning could have exposed the imperialists [b]without[/b] releasing any documents.

Perhaps you could also explain how Manning could have violated his oath of secrecy without breaking any laws.

Perhaps you could explain why he's facing a possible death penalty and the certainty of torture for the rest of his life, if all he did illegally was release "meaningless unrelated documents".

Margaret Kimberley, quoted above, in describing one of the "meaningless unrelated" documents that Manning released, wrote:

Among the files which Manning allegedly leaked is a video showing American soldiers shooting a Reuters photographer and his driver, and an innocent bystander and his young children, and then laughing as an already dead body is crushed by an armored vehicle. The soldiers also enjoy themselves. They are positively gleeful about committing murder, laughing at their victims and pleading with their superiors to allow them to kill more people.

Perhaps you could explain why your overriding concern for the supposed unlawfulness of Manning's actions in releasing these documents trumps his heroism in doing so?

Or, perhaps you can't.

NDPP

Shoe Drops, Boot Comes Out for Crowley  -  by Chris Floyd

http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2102-...

"...it was very obvious that Crowley's days were numbered, for he scarcely lasted more than a day before the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate forced him from office for the high crime of causing the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate to face the minimal discomfort of having to publicly address his torture of an American soldier.."

politicalnick

@M Spector

I believe you have made a few assumptions about my position and misinterpreted my statement which was supossed to be somewht sarcastic.

As I understand it a lot of the documents may have been unrelated to the issue of torture and US cooperation in torture but that in no way minimizes the wrongness of the american complicity in human rights infringements.

Sure he broke a few written laws and an oath but the extent of the bad treatment and the vilification of him by the US government is directly related to their embarrassment at being caught involved in illegal and inhumane activities.

I actually believe his heroism in making a stand against the immoral actions of his government far outwieghs the criminality of his actions. I support what he did and hope that there are more like him out there. 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
In our Big Brother security state the military says they do it for Manning's own protection.  It's a lie that does not pass the straight face test.  Once again lies become truth as a compliant press writes it down and reports it as fact. The president re-enforces the lie, telling America he has talked to the Pentagon and they have said it is for his own protection. The president says this with a straight face.

[b]Does anyone believe the president anymore?[/b] This is the president that told us - America doesn't torture.  This is the president who said that Raymond Davis was a diplomat who deserved diplomatic immunity.  In fact, he was a Blackwater mercenary working for the CIA who allegedly killed two Pakistanis. The president's comments to the press were dutifully reported "he is a diplomat who deserves diplomatic immunity" when the press knew he was working for the CIA. The press had been told to lie to us, not tell us the truth and they did as the government demanded until a foreign newspaper told the truth. The president and the press need to lie to us because the truth is terrifying.

Friends - we are here today because we know - [b]we are all Bradley Manning[/b].  That a crime against one of us is a crime against all of us.  We need to stand together, to Stand with Brad, because this is much bigger than Bradley Manning.

We are living through a time of revolutionary change.  We see it around the world and we see it around the nation.  The corporate-government-media does not report the resistance occurring throughout the nation because if Americans knew that their fellow Americans were standing up against corporate-government, real change, shifting power to the people, would be more likely.

And the corporate media is threatened by what Bradley Manning is accused of.  [b]They are losing hold of their monopoly on information[/b] as WikiLeaks shows the way to the democratization of the media.  We are living through the birth of a new media that will shift the power of information control from the few to the many.  Information is a commodity that the corporate-government has sought to control because they know information is power.  But in this new media age we can all be reporters, writers, commentators.  Through email, blogs, websites and social media each of us can share information.  We all can become part of the new media.

[url=http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/03/manning-must-be-tortured-to-make-an-ex...

NDPP

Outlook For the New Year  - by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2011/12/31/the-outlook-for-the-new-year/

"...In other words, Manning gave the world the truth of a war crime that was being covered up, and Washington and the Pentagon regard a truth teller doing his duty under the US military code as an 'abuser of trust'."

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
Unionist

[url=http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/truthdigger_of_the_week_daniel_ellsb... with Daniel Ellsberg on Bradley Manning case[/url]

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