Is it time to end this relic? I really like the "extra" hour today, but will be royally PO'd in March when I have to give it up. Does DST even matter anymore? Studies have shown that the extra accidents caused by sleepy people cost more than the supposed savings on energy.
Time to end Daylight Saving Time?
It is seemingly impossible to find a definitive study... a lot of the overview articles have words to the effect that "studies are contradictory" - but the rationale of having daylight saving time in order to reduce energy consumption is at best marginal and may, in fact, increase energy consumption. (I took the easy way out and checked wikipedia ). Much in line with a radio program I remember hearing (I think it was CBC's Ideas, but I am not positive and have not been able to find a link), the primary beneficiary of DST seems to be the retail industry - one thing the studies do agree on is that consumption goes up when DST is brought in. I think it is time to scrap DST, the costs seem to outway the benefits -- and the further from the equator you are, the less sense it makes...
We don't observe DST here on the Lower North Shore of Quebec.
DST came into being during the First World War. It was an attempt to conserve energy for the war effort. Some of the countries that initially observed it are Germany, the U.K., France and later the U.S.A. and Canada.
After WW 1, Germany, the U.K. and France stayed with it due to their austere war time economies (even though the war was over). Other European countries adopted it to make international commerce easier.
In Canada and the U.S., it was also kept, perhaps because it was more financially beneficial for companies and made workers more productive.
Ending DST is best done if all the countries currently observing it drop it to make international commerce and communication less complex and complicated.
Ending DST is best done if all the countries currently observing it drop it to make international commerce and communication less complex and complicated.
Actually, a number of countries, including China, do not observe it already, and I believe one or two Canadian provinces don't either if I'm not mistaken. So it's a mess already no matter how you slice it. Personally, I'd say scrap it and join the majority of countries.
Canada's dropping DST will probably be contingent upon the U.S.A's dropping it.
Saskatchewan (Canada) doesn't observe it, Arizona (U.S.A) doesn't observe it. There are other (U.S.) states that don't observe it. Some (U.S.) states observe it in parts but don't deserve it in other parts (of the same state.) In the U.S., I believe recognizing, or not, DST is left up to the state Constitutions.
Actually, Saskatchewan is on DST year-round. Has been for years. So much so that we mostly forget we're on DST and our Chamber of Commerce begins the "we must institute DST!" campaign every couple of years. Twits.
China doesn't observe time zones at all. All of China operates on Beijing time. I found that surprising when I was there last year.
It's time to end Daylight Saving Time. In fact, it was time to end it two nights ago.
Could someone please inform the pimply-faced geek in rabble's IT department that the babble clock should be set an hour back; and that there's a very simple software fix that will look after time changes automatically?
I just did a search on the word "pimply", remembering your abusive insults from the other day, and surprise surprise, all four hits turned up to be you, insulting the IT people here at rabble.
My coworkers.
I'm going to ask you one more time to stop being so abusive. I don't know why you think it's okay to come onto our website and trash us. Next time, I'm going to suspend your account. Consider it an act of solidarity with my coworkers.
P.S. For those who really feel strongly about it, I've already sent an e-mail this morning to the tech folks, letting them know that babble didn't do the DST change. Not sure whether it really matters much, since all it means is that we're now on Atlantic time instead of Eastern.
It's time to end Daylight Saving Time. In fact, it was time to end it two nights ago.
Could someone please inform the pimply-faced geek in rabble's IT department that the babble clock should be set an hour back; and that there's a very simple software fix that will look after time changes automatically?
Wow, M. Spector! Did someone spike your Halloween candy?
Anyway...as a ham radio operator, we all function on UTC time...because we're always talking across time zones. So the clock never changes.
Production goes up too. In march they shift an hour of daylight from early morning, (when people are asleep in bed) to the evening, when they are awake. You COULD get up an hour earlier and use that time. But it is more pleasant to use it in the evening when it is 5C or 6 C warmer. some of the reason is to do with deaths on the roads too. I cannot remember if more happen in the early morning or in the evening. Another reason is that evening sunlight has less UV rays so you skin gets brown before you go on holidays to mexico.
It is seemingly impossible to find a definitive study... a lot of the overview articles have words to the effect that "studies are contradictory" - but the rationale of having daylight saving time in order to reduce energy consumption is at best marginal and may, in fact, increase energy consumption. (I took the easy way out and checked wikipedia ). Much in line with a radio program I remember hearing (I think it was CBC's Ideas, but I am not positive and have not been able to find a link), the primary beneficiary of DST seems to be the retail industry - one thing the studies do agree on is that consumption goes up when DST is brought in. I think it is time to scrap DST, the costs seem to outway the benefits -- and the further from the equator you are, the less sense it makes...
All these reactionaries who want to abolish daylight saving time are just trying to turn the clock back.
Actually, Saskatchewan is on DST year-round. Has been for years. So much so that we mostly forget we're on DST and our Chamber of Commerce begins the "we must institute DST!" campaign every couple of years. Twits.
China doesn't observe time zones at all. All of China operates on Beijing time. I found that surprising when I was there last year.
I'd found the same when I was in Xinjiang. A country that size needs more than one time zone in my opinion.
abandon your time pieces
stop being a slave to time
the time is now
http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html gives some of the history.
All these reactionaries who want to abolish daylight saving time are just trying to turn the clock back.
Wow, that's deep!
That's what one does when one observes Daylight Saving Time, turn the clock back (one hour). We first started doing it in World War I. So, you could say that those who support this antiquated practice are "reactionaries".
It was originally suggested so that workers could enjoy an extra hour of summer daylight after their jobs were done. Most people support it but every year on babble someone complains about it. Fact is we get much more light in summer than in winter and daylight savings time effectively transfers an hour of that extra light from early morning (when the vast majority of people are asleep) to evening. (People will dispute this because they have not researched it properly).
Most people end up getting about 180 EXTRA hours of light in waking hours. It is a significant amount and a valuable contribution to our leisure time.
Actually, Saskatchewan is on DST year-round. Has been for years. So much so that we mostly forget we're on DST and our Chamber of Commerce begins the "we must institute DST!" campaign every couple of years. Twits.
China doesn't observe time zones at all. All of China operates on Beijing time. I found that surprising when I was there last year.
I'd found the same when I was in Xinjiang. A country that size needs more than one time zone in my opinion.
Yes, it does! We traveled around a fair bit, and the sunrise/sunset in some regions was almost jarring when compared to the clock.
I think that we should follow SK and go on DST year-round!
Yeah, that would work for me too, Angella.
Brian.... I question the practicality of it this far north... maybe if I lived in the U.S. in a mid-Atlantic state it would make sense, but when it is 9:30 or 10 hre in Calgary and the sun has not set, I wonder how useful the concept is (and I am not that far north, I remember being in High Prairie and waiting for the Canada Day fireworks which couldn't start till after midnight because it was too light). Although I don't have children (much less school age children) I do remember it being a problem trying to get the us to keep a regular bed time in June because the sun was still up after the scheduled bedtime... I think, on balance, it (DST) is not particularly practical. Remember, we are talking sunset, not full dark.... I think it is just inertia that keeps it going.
What is the problem with the sun setting late? Thats the best time of year. I used to stack bales with my da in the cool evening till 10.30 pm sometimes and water plants about 9 pm or play soccer and other games till 11 pm (when it just got too dangerous). I sometimes came back from cycling expeditions after 9 pm too. On my cycling tours at the weekends, I started on occasion at 6pm after work and could still get 40 or 50 miles in on a friday in the summer.
When there is daylight in the evenings, it is a great time to be alive. Brian
Brian.... I question the practicality of it this far north... maybe if I lived in the U.S. in a mid-Atlantic state it would make sense, but when it is 9:30 or 10 hre in Calgary and the sun has not set, I wonder how useful the concept is (and I am not that far north, I remember being in High Prairie and waiting for the Canada Day fireworks which couldn't start till after midnight because it was too light). Although I don't have children (much less school age children) I do remember it being a problem trying to get the us to keep a regular bed time in June because the sun was still up after the scheduled bedtime... I think, on balance, it (DST) is not particularly practical. Remember, we are talking sunset, not full dark.... I think it is just inertia that keeps it going.
We don't observe DST here, but I wish we did. It's ridiculous to see it getting dark around 5pm here.
ETA: oops, I just realized that if we observed "fall back" one hour, it'd get dark at 4pm instead of 5pm!
It was originally suggested so that workers could enjoy an extra hour of summer daylight after their jobs were done. Most people support it but every year on babble someone complains about it. Fact is we get much more light in summer than in winter and daylight savings time effectively transfers an hour of that extra light from early morning (when the vast majority of people are asleep) to evening. (People will dispute this because they have not researched it properly).
Most people end up getting about 180 EXTRA hours of light in waking hours. It is a significant amount and a valuable contribution to our leisure time.
When I was in China, many Chinese companies had a revolutionary solution to the lack of a DST policy in their country: they had a different schedule depending on the season. Same effect as here, but without having to fiddle with clocks nationwide. Absolutely amazing!
China has one time zone. Amazing!
China has one time zone. Amazing!
And crazy. I remember lunch time at 1400hrs instead of 1200hrs in Urumqi.
Don't forget to spring ahead one hour on Sunday.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/cid_001b01c1ddf88245...
And Tweety says you must change your clock at 2 am Sunday morning, otherwise you'll tear a hole in space-time. Or something pretty close.
Only the government would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the bottom, and have a longer blanket
At first glance this looks like the kind of folky wisdom that cuts right through the silliness and tells it like it is. Except that DST doesn't increase the amount of daylight, it just redistributes it to a different part of the clock.
To continue "the Old Indian's" blanket analogy, if you have an extra foot of blanket over your head, where you don't really need it, and your feet are uncovered and cold, wouldn't you move that blanket down a foot?? I don't know if that counts as folky wisdom so much as just plain sense. I'm sure even the Old Indian would agree.
No DST here on the Quebec coast. We neither spring forward nor fall back.
The clock-changing lunacy time is upon youse again?
I like the bike ride to work in daylight in the morning now, after months of riding in the dark. I'd be pretty depressed if I had to go back to twilight or darkness again.
Hey, it got up to -5 yesterday (it's back down to -15 now) and it's supposed to rise above freezing in a few days!
As long as 19th century industrialists are able to save a few pennies on electrical power with an hour more of daylight, it's all that matters to me. People and their families don't mind screwing up sleep-wake cycles as long as some really old codgers can save up to be rich.
To the best of my knowledge, Saskatchewan is on Daylight Savings Time all the time. Why switch back?
Puh-leeze. I don't hear too many people complaining about being able to be out and about longer on a summer evening. And of those who do complain about DST, I'd guess that three quarters aren't complaining about it being light out later, they're complaining that "the guv'mint" has the audacity to try to monkey with nature (standard time being a natural thing, like gravity).
No kidding; in winter it doesn't matter, since the days are so short anyway, and summer works out fine the way it is now.
...and we don't have to pretend we can alter time to suit human desires (although time is an abstract notion meant to conform with human desires).
I'm liking the fact that it's 5:22 on a Friday evening, I'm feeling real good cause Mary Jane dropped by earlier with some wine, and there's still plenty of daylight left on the evening.
It used to get dark here around 430pm in the dead of winter; now not until 630. And that's without DST.
ooo, send mary this way next slumberjack ;)
I thought there was a decent case to be made that DST saves a significant amount of energy in the US in particular but not limited. If it's light at 4am, but nobody is awake til 5am, doesn't it make sense to call 4am 5am instead so we make use of that extra hour of lighting instead of resorting to electric lights an hour earlier at night?...it's like Earth day except every day, yet another reason to feel warm and fuzzy
Am I off with that...or?
The English are talking about going to double daylight saving time.
In my second letter to the papers about 25 years ago I suggested it for Ireland as a tourism boost. (Ireland is smaller so it might work as a gimick.
England might be too big to do it.) But then again, the Canadian provences are enormous and they manage on single summertime.
A time change in early March and then another one in April. Great for summer sports or hiking or Biking. I could go about 50 miles after work on friday by bycycle on my tourist runs. 60 would have been possible if I has the extra light.
If you rob me of my money, I can always forgive you because I can always make more money.
If you rob me of my time, I can never forgive you because no matter how hard I try, I can never make more time.
I could go about 50 miles after work on friday by bycycle on my tourist runs. 60 would have been possible if I has the extra light.
That happens to you too? As soon as the sun goes down my tyres go flat.
I had a good dynamo on the bike. Way more light than the little led lights that they have now. But I was doing tourist. Not much point riding the bike in the dark as a tourist when you cannot see the landscape.
I could go about 50 miles after work on friday by bycycle on my tourist runs. 60 would have been possible if I has the extra light.
That happens to you too? As soon as the sun goes down my tyres go flat.
Good God, man! You were cycling outside your own time zone?
You get the feeling that if the feds declared a national Maypole dance, or a national go jump in the lake day, millions would obey.
You get the feeling that if the feds declared a national Maypole dance, or a national go jump in the lake day, millions would obey.
For some, it would depend solely on which party was in power.
Well, do you want the sunlight in summer in the warm of evening when most people are awake, or at about 4 in the morning when you are asleep?
Thats the choice.
For most people that is a no brainer. So answer that question FIRST and THEN worry if you answer is the same as federal law.
Because lets face it, this is all about YOU. What works for YOU?
For those of you who don't want to mess with "God's time" (the Saskatchewan reason for their way of treating time) I would have to say that tradition seems to be beating logic. (And God didn't create the Saskatchewan time zone no matter what they think).
And so many of you are atheists that that should be repugnant anyway.
And the point about being against the federal government even if you have to cut off your nose seems to be valid. "What did the feds ever do for us?"
The earth is tilted at 23.5 degrees to its orbit. But that means that there is a huge 47 degree difference in tilt with regard to the sun between winter and summer. In the tropics, that makes little difference but up north it's a big difference. Shunting an hour of summer sun from morning to evening makes sense to most people.
Searosia: The sentiment that is like "earth day, but every day" is fine, but as I tried to point out (when this thread first started) the studies are contradictory - it is more than just electric lights coming on later, it is also air conditioners running later, it is also more vehicles being used for recreational and (wait for it) retail shopping purposes.
Attitudes towards it are also influenced by location. with DST, sunset isn't going to be happening in Grande Prairie till 10.40 pm this year for most of the month of June... 9.55 for Calgary, 10.05 for Edmonton - and that is just the actual sunset, what is referred to as civil twilight ends about an hour later.
Well, do you want the sunlight in summer in the warm of evening when most people are awake, or at about 4 in the morning when you are asleep?
Thats the choice.
For most people that is a no brainer. So answer that question FIRST and THEN worry if you answer is the same as federal law.
Around here, in the summer the sun comes up around 4 am and it isn't dark until 10 pm. I guess we get the best of both worlds.
For those of you who don't want to mess with "God's time" (the Saskatchewan reason for their way of treating time) I would have to say that tradition seems to be beating logic. (And God didn't create the Saskatchewan time zone no matter what they think).And so many of you are atheists that that should be repugnant anyway.
Actually, most of Saskatchewan is in the Mountain Time zone - so determined on the basis of geography in 1966. However, the provincial government decided that the eastern part of the province, which straddles the Central Time zone, would operate on Central Standard time, and the communities in the rest of the province, with the exception of Lloydminster, decided to harmonize with that of their own accord by 1972. It was a patchwork of time zones prior to that. There was no religious involvement in the decision, so not sure what all this "God" business is about.
So we are, geographically-wise for most of the province, operating on DST all year round. It's fine. It works. It's the spring back I don't understand.
Odd note: Did you know that all of China operates on Beijing's time zone?
Puh-leeze. I don't hear too many people complaining about being able to be out and about longer on a summer evening. And of those who do complain about DST, I'd guess that three quarters aren't complaining about it being light out later, they're complaining that "the guv'mint" has the audacity to try to monkey with nature (standard time being a natural thing, like gravity).
When I was in China, some companies had a revolutionary idea: their working hours would be pushed back an hour for so many months of the year. So their staff could still enjoy more sunlight without having to fiddle with the clock.
Now let's reverse the scenario. Imagine that here in Ontario which does have DST, a company decides that it would change its working hours twice a year to counterbalance DST (perfectly legal to the best of my knowledge). Clearly that would make us fiddle with clocks for nothing. So why not just leave the clocks and watches out of it and just come to work an hour later or earlier depending on the time of year? Same effect but without having to fiddle with all our clocks.