The government is on the verge of collapse. Layton on right now has unequivocally rejected this budget on the heels of the other 2 opposition leaders announcing their opposition.
Off to the races.
Issues Pages:
Just in: All 3 opposition parties to vote against Conservative budget
Thu, 2011-03-24 13:43
#1
Just in: All 3 opposition parties to vote against Conservative budget
Tue, 2011-03-22 16:55
#2
And kathlinne petty, chris hall and janice stein (not to mention all the other talking heads up to today) are shocked that layton was against it.. Is our media that dumb, or just playing games.
Tue, 2011-03-22 16:56
#3
welder
I'm not shocked he shot it down..
I'm shocked at how Layton basically decimated it..
This budget is DOA,folks...
We're goin' to the polls!!
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:03
#4
His opposition was far stronger than I could have hoped for. He did decimate it.
Anyway, the government will fall within days. Friday is a likely date.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:04
#5
Perhaps what offended him was the 11th hour call to the backroom from Harper.
Not that he doesn't do that sort of thing, but I can imagine it doesn't look good to be seen so publicly doing that sort of thing.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:06
#6
...unless they pull that HST deal out of a hat.
I guess we'll see now if Harper really wants to have an election or not.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:09
#7
No hats.
If Harper had changed his mind about wanting an election, he would have offered more. There were a number of things that wouldnt have cost that much.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:11
#8
You have to hand it to Layton - i think he knew he wanted to force an election this Spring a long time ago. If he had done what Ignatieff did and made demands back in January that were clearly never going to be met - Layton would have been ignored for the last two months and we would have already been in a pre-campaign. Instead by being coy and talking about NDP priorities Layton made himself the main news story for most of the past six weeks - even while ebing out of commission part of the time with his surgery.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:14
#9
welder
Perhaps what offended him was the 11th hour call to the backroom from Harper.
Not that he doesn't do that sort of thing, but I can imagine it doesn't look good to be seen so publicly doing that sort of thing.
I agree...
The Hail Mary that the Con's threw suggests,perhaps,the internal polling numbers over the last week are clearly starting to fall.Maybe I'm wrong and some of the ethical stuff IS starting to stick...
Another thing,and I agree with Chantal Hebert on this,everything that's in this budget is going to a priority photo-op to say the opposition shot it down.Tacticly,both federal opposition parties are going to have to after Mr.Harper on the ethical issues to put him on the defensive AND,try to change the economic channel.
And finally,this stint by Sweatervest Stevie should lay bare to all old Reformer's that Reform is completely dead..And that Mr.Harper has little,to no,pricipals left of his NCC days.He is,in that sense,identical to the Liberal party because it's now obvious that he will do anything to remain in power.That should'nt surprise anyone seeing as his government has been found in contempt of Parliament three times in the last year...
Personally,I think these ethical issues require more time to percolate with the populous,however,if the opposition wants to go..It's time to go!!!
Prepare for the Socialist/Seperatist coalition crapola to be talked about ad nauseum..
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:17
#10
welder
...unless they pull that HST deal out of a hat.
I guess we'll see now if Harper really wants to have an election or not.
If the Con's do that,they will have no leg to stand on when it comes to any Socialist/Seperatists coalition stuff...
And the opposition will crucify him for it...
It will also show ,especially to the hardcore Reform base,that he's basically the "Eastern Bastard" they usually detest...
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:34
#11
Boom Boom
I've been saying all along that enough MPs will get 'diplomatic flu' and the budget will pass. Then the govt can fall on the ethics matters.
Tue, 2011-03-22 17:52
#12
.... unless Harper decided to just pull the plug as one commentator suggested on CBC.
That might mean him breaking his fixed election date law again, but it would prevent his government falling on the ethics issue.
Tue, 2011-03-22 18:08
#13
And kathlinne petty, chris hall and janice stein (not to mention all the other talking heads up to today) are shocked that layton was against it.. Is our media that dumb, or just playing games.
Makes me wonder if they really are that dumb. I mean, they're clearly not smart.
Tue, 2011-03-22 18:09
#14
welder
Slasher Jimmy says he wants to run on the budget...
No doubt,he did'nt get that all by himself,Harper did...
Tue, 2011-03-22 18:13
#15
Boom Boom
Evan Solomon: Harper's spokesman just said 1) "NO" to going to the G-G; he wants a vote on the Budget. 2) the Cons will try to force a Budget vote Thursday night ahead of the Liberal's Opposition Day Motion Friday.
Tue, 2011-03-22 18:29
#16
If any of these idiots in parliament vote for a budget with any deficit they are not acting in the interest of the people. Even if you believe the numbers presented are true and nothing is hidden that still adds $1175 in debt for every man woman and child in Canada.
Tue, 2011-03-22 18:59
#17
Deficits are not necessarily a bad thing in the short-term. As long as you can come back to par or a surplus over the business cycle, you need not worry. Government balance sheets should be studied with the long-term in mind.
Tue, 2011-03-22 19:17
#18
Boom Boom
(moved to election thread)
Tue, 2011-03-22 19:39
#19
Deficits are not necessarily a bad thing in the short-term. As long as you can come back to par or a surplus over the business cycle, you need not worry. Government balance sheets should be studied with the long-term in mind.
Any deficit is a bad thing with maybe an exception for a major natural disaster or a war where we facing an invasion. Other than that spend what you got and not a penny more.
Over the next 4 years the Cons say they will increase the deficit by $100 billion which is about $2950 for every human in the country. The big prize at the end is a surplus in year 5 of $300 million which won't cover the interest payment on the debt they accumulated.
Tue, 2011-03-22 19:48
#20
Pogo
In the late 1800's Canada build a big deficit. It was needed to build infrastructure for an expanding population. Deficits in themselves are not bad as long as the money is used wisely and the benefits outweigh the costs.
Tue, 2011-03-22 19:52
#21
Annual deficits are meaningless, especially when costs are front-ended. Public services and infrastructure should be amortized over a generation- the generation that uses them eventually pays them back.
Tue, 2011-03-22 20:30
#22
As I have pointed out before, government deficits are a bogey-man being used by the ruling class in an attempt to squeeze even more blood from the true productive class. Historically, governments have often defaulted on their debts, usually with positive results. See the quotation from John Ralston Saul, in his book "The Doubter's Companion" which I posted in another thread:
Tue, 2011-03-22 21:41
#23
Boom Boom
God, are we in for an onslaught of bullshit from the Conservatives over the defeat of the Budget. Flaherty on The National says he has all the big economists congratulating him on his new Budget, and he says the Economist gave it a glowing review. What a bunch of horse manure. During Evan Solomon's panel with Mulcair among others, he got a tweet from the Canadian Labour Congress saying they like the budget.
Dark days and much bullshit ahead. Anyone for taking a break until this is all over? 
Tue, 2011-03-22 22:46
#24
Then somebody lied
Conclusion
The jobs crisis is still very much with us. Our national debt is low, and interest rates are and will remain very low. The priorities in this Budget should have been pensions, jobs, and support for the unemployed, not spending cuts to reduce an already small deficit and to fund future tax cuts.
The CCPA Alternative Federal Budget shows that a major public investment program along the lines proposed by the CLC could improve services to communities and people, and quickly bring the national unemployment rate down below 7%. By putting Canadians back to work and paying taxes, the deficit would fall just about as fast as under the Conservative plan, and programs and services would be improved rather than cut.
From here
http://www.canadianlabour.ca/news-room/publications/clc-analysis-2011-federal-budget
Tue, 2011-03-22 22:57
#25
Boom Boom
Yeah, but who? Mulcair was clearly taken aback, and said he wanted to read the fine print of what the CLC said.
Tue, 2011-03-22 23:00
#26
Here is the CLC release:
http://www.canadianlabour.ca/national/news/georgetti-urges-parties-consi...
Tue, 2011-03-22 23:02
#27
I am surprised by the CLC release.
The increase to the GIS is about $50 a month. It might cover the increase to the cost of home heating and this year's inflation...
Tue, 2011-03-22 23:27
#28
Boom Boom
Thanks, Sean, I was beginning to question my sanity. I guess it was Ken Georgetti that tweeted Evan Solomon during his panel. Mulcair looked pissed off.
Wed, 2011-03-23 02:00
#29
Apparently the Liberals will have an opposition day on, is it Thursday? Then a confidence vote in the House. And then Harper still has it within his power to go to the GG and say that his government has reached an impasse with Parliament and call an election. Iggy says that the Harpers are way out of line with abuse and disregard for Canada's institutions etc and conservatives crooking the public in general. But he still would not commit to a Liberal Party decision to bring down the government. I think they want to go to an election but don't want to be the named as the party forcing an election.
And Flaherty rambles on and on to Mansbridge about how world markets and even Libyans are counting on stability in Canadian government bla bla. Mansbridge asked Jimmy, if avoiding an election is all that important, then why didn't the conservatives consider working with Parliament toward a compromise?
Wed, 2011-03-23 03:38
#30
Harper scheduled the Liberal opposition day for Friday.
Wed, 2011-03-23 14:16
#31
"But Georgetti says the GIS should not be the long-term solution to seniors’ poverty. 'The best way to provide retirement security for Canadians is to improve the Canada Pension Plan. We want a firm commitment from this government for a gradual and fully-funded doubling of Canada Pension Plan benefits. We want a time line for implementation, as soon as the required amending formula is reached.'"
"Georgetti says that the CLC wants the government to invest in programs that help to create a stronger economy with good family-supporting jobs, and wants Ottawa to do more to help the unemployed...."
http://www.canadianlabour.ca/national/news/georgetti-urges-parties-consi...
Wed, 2011-03-23 14:54
#32
Looks like Georgetti is backtracking after laying an egg after the budget yesterday!
http://www.canadianlabour.ca/national/news/canadian-labour-congress-pres...
Wed, 2011-03-23 15:06
#33
What an arsehole that Georgetti is. And look at the dude who does his press releases - Dennis Gruending - could that be the same as the NDP "Faith and Justice" religious self-promoter? Or just coincidence?
Wed, 2011-03-23 15:19
#34
Flaherty will get brownie points for this one from his boss.
Georgetti sound like he is fishing for a Senate appointment. Time for him to go.
Wed, 2011-03-23 15:21
#35
I wouldn't bale it all on his press secretary. I saw Georgetti himself being interviewed in a scrum right after the budget was brought down and his first reaction was to go and on about what a good budget it was and how satisfied he was with it!
I see two possible explanations:
a) Georgetti plans to join the Conservative party and give Harper a CLC jacket to wear - mimicking Hargrove and Martin in 2006
b) Georgetti expected the Layton and the NDP to cave and support the budget and so he thought he was helping to give the NDP some cover - in which case he was pretty dumb not to wait for Jack to speak before shooting his mouth off.
BTW: I have to say I've always found Georgetti to be very uninpressive. As head of the CLC, he is supposed to be the voice of the labour movement in Canada - and yet his profile is so low as to be non-existent. He is 100% absent from any debate in Canada. Remember when the CLC was led by people like Dennis McDermott or Bob White - and they were contantly quoted in the media and thjeir views were always sought out whenever journalists wanted to hear "labour's perspective" - you almost NEVER see Georgetti in the news saying anything of any relevance.
Is the person occupying the post of President of the CLC supposed to be a major advocate for labour issues and social justice - or it the job supposed to be a sinecure that is the closest thing the left can offer to a lifetime appointment to the senate?
Wed, 2011-03-23 15:31
#36
Georgetti is Labours Problems. Labour keeps him in , then live with it. Look at Labour today, and Look at the Budget comments.
Is anyone surprised by this?
Wed, 2011-03-23 17:05
#37
Double post
Wed, 2011-03-23 17:09
#38
Remember when the CLC was led by people like Dennis McDermott or Bob White - and they were contantly quoted in the media and thjeir views were always sought out whenever journalists wanted to hear "labour's perspective" - you almost NEVER see Georgetti in the news saying anything of any relevance.
Great point.
And remember when Chaviva Hosek and Judy Rebek were the leaders of the National Action Committee on the Status of Women and the organization was a household name? In '84 they actually hosted a national televised leaders debate between Mulroney, Turner, and Broadbent.
An anti-feminist prime minister is suddenly concerned with maternal health. What's happening? - Judy Rebick
There was another election where women's issues came to centre stage in 1984. Polling was getting more sophisticated and the gender gap between the Republicans and Democrats in the US election had become clear. Women were against Reagan. In those days, the National Action Committee on the Status of Women was a powerful organization and the media savvy NAC President at the time, Chaviva Hosek, called for a Leader's Debate on Women's Issues. It actually happened. Watch it if you don't believe me. Not only did Brian Mulroney, John Turner and Ed Broadbent debate women's issues on national television but they did so under questioning from members of the NAC executive rather than journalists. It had an amazing impact by demonstrating the increasing power of the women's movement.
To see how Canada has changed during the last 27 years one can enter the CBC's time machine:
Mansbridge sure had a lot more hair back when.
Wed, 2011-03-23 19:09
#39
Remember when the CLC was led by people like Dennis McDermott or Bob White - and they were contantly quoted in the media and thjeir views were always sought out whenever journalists wanted to hear "labour's perspective" - you almost NEVER see Georgetti in the news saying anything of any relevance.
Correct. Georgetti is an utter dud. He and his entourage are destroying whatever potential credibility and organizing power the CLC could and should have.
But I have other recollections of Dennis McDermott. In the 1984 election, he focused all the CLC's opposition against the Liberals. Mulroney was not ungrateful. After McDermott's retirement in 1986, he was appointed ambassador to Ireland.
I'm nominating Ken Georgetti as ambassador to Libya!
Wed, 2011-03-23 19:47
#40
BRILLIANT move by the opposition today. They have effectively killed the budget by not allowing the government to proceed to orders of the day. All that will be voted now is the opposition non-confidence motion on contempt of parliament and the early days of the election will be framed by us and not on a phony budget that the Cons know will never be implemented
Yay!!!
Wed, 2011-03-23 20:17
#41
Yes, it looks like the Cons won't be able to bring up a budget vote before the non-confidence vote now so it looks like the Opposition will get to vote on what they want first.
Wed, 2011-03-23 20:27
#42
Yes, it looks like the Cons won't be able to bring up a budget vote before the non-confidence vote now so it looks like the Opposition will get to vote on what they want first.
Indeed.
Now, it should be noted that Harper can start playing the same games that Martin played in 2005 before the Stronach defection. He could take away the liberal opposition day on Friday-backend it to the end of the session-and try to force the opposition to vote on the budget. I suppose that the opposition could filibuster its own report to try to prevent the government from doing that and getting that vote first.
I love parliamentary procedure and there are games that Harper can play, like Rosemary Barton mentioned today on Power and Politics with Evan Solomon. We'll see how much he wants to avoid an election on ethics soon.
Wed, 2011-03-23 21:02
#43
Boom Boom
I'm nominating Ken Georgetti as ambassador to Libya!
He would probably accept it.
Wed, 2011-03-23 22:47
#44
Yes, it looks like the Cons won't be able to bring up a budget vote before the non-confidence vote now so it looks like the Opposition will get to vote on what they want first.
Indeed.
Now, it should be noted that Harper can start playing the same games that Martin played in 2005 before the Stronach defection. He could take away the liberal opposition day on Friday-backend it to the end of the session-and try to force the opposition to vote on the budget. I suppose that the opposition could filibuster its own report to try to prevent the government from doing that and getting that vote first.
I love parliamentary procedure and there are games that Harper can play, like Rosemary Barton mentioned today on Power and Politics with Evan Solomon. We'll see how much he wants to avoid an election on ethics soon.
That would be funny- the spectacle of the Cons using unethical games in the commons to avoid a vote on ethics. Sounds fine to me.
The opposition could play back-- the budget is not the big issue so they could if Harper plays a game on them not show up till they get their non-confidence vote and say there was no reason to vote on the budget since the government already lost confidence and all they were doing is waiting for that vote. Effectively that would pass the budget without any opposition MP voting for it but the government would fall a few days later and the campaign would be on ethics.
Can't see how the government can win this battle.
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:12
#45
Boom Boom
Can't see how the government can win this battle.
Prorogue? :)
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:18
#46
Now that would be funny.
Harper would not survive a third kick at that can.
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:21
#47
No... I agree with the prevailing wisdom that he probably engineered this himself.
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:25
#48
Boom Boom
The Cons could just boycott the vote on ethics, calling it a sham.
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:26
#49
alan smithee
It's all going as the Tory strategists planned.
A budget that answers NDP issues with peanuts and Bloc issues with some promises that gives the illusion of a fair budget and makes the opposition look like the villains.
And I'm sick and tired of the 'Canadians don't want an election' bullshit.
When will Canadians 'want' an election?..In a year,5 years or maybe never.
Any which way you slice it,the Tories have succeeded in making Canadians believe elections should become a thing of the past,making the electorate more apathetic and making the opposition up as the bogeyman.
I'm not looking forward to this election.
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:30
#50
I wonder what made the Tories think that Canadians "wanted" an election in 2008 when they needlessly called one just two years into their mandate?
Wed, 2011-03-23 23:37
#51
Now, it should be noted that Harper can start playing the same games that Martin played in 2005 before the Stronach defection. He could take away the liberal opposition day on Friday-backend it to the end of the session-and try to force the opposition to vote on the budget.
No, I don't think he can, because today is the last day of the current supply period. When Martin did that it was in May, and the last day of that supply period would not have come until June or something.
Friday is the last day the Liberal opposition can be called for ... and it must be called ... and after it's voted on, there would still have been the money votes to vote supply for the next period. The Liberals could make their votable opposition day motion confidence or not, but they put a non-confidence motion on the order paper today, and have announced that they plan to move that one on Friday.
Now, I think Harper picked the budget day precisely with this squeeze in mind, thinking they could squeeze the NDP. But then other things go and happen, don't they.