BC NDP leadership - New Thread March 18

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Fri, 2011-03-18 12:26

Stockholm

Some interesting developments in the BC NDP leadership. The "baker's dozen" seem to be all over the map in terms of who they are endorsing. This week Lali announced for backing Horgan and Horgan already Had backing fro dissident Claire Trevana. Farnworth got endorsed by Corky Evans as well as Lana Popham and Guy Gentner - all dissidents. Adrian Dix has no backing yet from any of the dissidents, but Michelle Mungall announced her support for him and he seems to have a lot of the brass behind him as well.

So, there seems to be little real cleavage between the candidates - it doesn't seem to be a right/left battle or a Vancouver/interior battle or a James loyalist vs. dissident battle.

Fri, 2011-03-18 17:15

pragmaticidealist

Yeah it should be interesting to see how things progress here. I think it will end up being a race between Dix and Farnworth. Horgan just has too much ground to make up in terms of name recognition; and whether we like it or not, in a one-member one-vote system not being from the lower mainland is a serious hinderance.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:19

Stockholm

I guess that is the conventional wisdom, but I'm told that Horgan has a lot of support from Vancouver Island (where he is from) and many of the ridings in Victoria and the rest of the island have some of the largest numbers of NDP members in the province.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:33

pragmaticidealist

Fair enough. However, I have met Horgan and he doesn't come off that well. I mean I liked him, but he doesn't have the presence the other two have in a public setting. I guess we shall see how the debates go. Although, my money is on Farnworth.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:40

Brian White

"The "baker's dozen" seem to be all over the map in terms of who they are endorsing."

I think they came together to protest the use of MLA's as pawns by an extremely secretive central organization. These pawns were not even told what official party policy was until after it was announced.

An election is not fought just in the time of the campaign. It is fought every single day. How can you fight it if you are not allowed to speak and you are not even told what the policy is? They also wanted more input into making the decisions. Note to the ndp leadership, it is called parliamentary democracy for a reason. In the NDP version a parlimentarian who I elected has as much say as those names that dix and his team were madly attaching to ten dollar bills on the last day. So it is clear that Dix means more of the same. He was allowed to break the rules on memberships in full view of everyone. Simons stood up to the intimidation about passwords and Horgan objected too. Bravo for good people! And Horgan vows to change that password rule if he gets elected.

But the privacy commissioner WILL investigate and this WILL drive people away from the ndp if the old bully group remains in power.

I hope that ndp members turn out and turf out the old leadership team.

I know the game is rigged against them but if ordinary people make the effort, the Dix team can be removed from power and the NDP can become the bottom up party that people deserve and that people will come out to vote for.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:43

Stockholm

Since the new leader will have been directly elected by the membership - that person will ipso-facto be the product of a bottom up process - no matter who wins the race.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:45

Brian White

Not if many of the dix memberships were dilivered (and accepted) in contrivention of the rules.

Fri, 2011-03-18 18:54

Basement Dweller

Horgan is the most charismatic of three, and has credibility on resource issues. Of the three, he is by far the best at working crowds. On the stage, he's at least as good. Don't count him out.

Fri, 2011-03-18 19:02

pragmaticidealist

1. If caucus had too little say in policy it's because many of them are lazy and don't get "actively involved" in policymaking.

2. I'm not really a dix supporter but I think the whole membership thing has been a bit overblown.

3. I'm not necessarily counting Horgan out entirely, but I disagree that he's very charasmatic. Maybe he can work a room but can he work a province? I'm skeptical. Dix, for all his baggage, is very intelligent and knows the issues. Farnworth leans a bit more to the centre so could grab some independents plus he's very well liked in caucus and by the general public.

Again, we shall see how the debates go.

Fri, 2011-03-18 19:35

#10

Brian White

"Dix, for all his baggage, is very intelligent and knows the issues." If Dix is so darn inteligent why did he not "get a room" and attach the money to the memberships in secret? Doing it in full view does not come over as intelligent.

Also on the password issue, Simons refused, Horgan spoke up to agree with him (for all of us as it happens) and Dix did his rules are rules thing.

To my mind, Horgan and Farnworth have grown over the last couple of weeks but Dix is still dragging his baggage everywhere he goes.

He clearly is attached to his baggage because he makes no effort to abandon it.

Fri, 2011-03-18 20:53

#11

NorthReport

I really think Dix should be put in jail don't you? Why don't you go get a policeman and get him charged?

After all he or his supporters had applications in one hand and the money in the other hand.

Do you even realize how ridiculous these accusations sound? Jeesh!

Fri, 2011-03-18 21:49

#12

Brian White

Ok, plain and simple, NorthReport, Dix was told how to deliver the applications a couple of days before he brought them in.

And he fucked it up! The money was supposed to be dilivered attached to the applications. Thats what the NDP said themselves.

Now, if he was capable of fucking up something that simple, what type of gigantic fuck ups can he achieve if the task is moderately complex?

Like tieing his shoelaces?

There is a very clear case for asking where the money actually came from, and there is very clear proof that (at best) Dix is incompetent.

We already know he has trouble with paperwork and dates. Why take chances? Forest Gump was a movie. Let's not try it for real. Reality does not turn out like the movies.

Fri, 2011-03-18 22:22

#13

Stockholm

Do you actually care about any substantive issues or is your sole interest in the NDP leadership as an opportunity to throw dirt and go about trivial issues no one cares about.

Fri, 2011-03-18 22:54

#14

NorthReport

If you are so concerned ask Glen Clark, the new President of the Pattison Group, whether he thinks Adrian is competent or not. Somehow I have a hunch his opinion might have some validity as opposed to this silliness you keep on blathering about. Jeesh!

Fri, 2011-03-18 23:47

#15

Stockholm

I was reading the definition of the term "concern troll"

"A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending."

Anyone want to guess who this definition might apply to?

Fri, 2011-03-18 23:48

#16

Brian White

I just want an NDP leader worthy of the Job. Dix fails the fuckup test. He keeps messing up publically. I don't know how much you know about politics but it is a liability when your dirty dealing, (the bags of memberships and bags of money) is done in plain public view.

He may have lots of financial capital in those bags but it doesn't compare to the political capital he is burning by letting everyone see.

Why not just have mister bean as your leader?

Make the choice from Horgan, Farnworth or Simons. They all seem to have values.

I don't agreen with Farnworth on the crime agenda but at least he is basically compitent.

Fri, 2011-03-18 23:51

#17

Brian White

I thought a troll was a nasty monster from a nordic country. So, my guess is someone with a nordic nickname who doesn't live in BC.

Sat, 2011-03-19 00:57

#18

Stockholm

Since we've established that you hate the BC NDP - I assume that if you are trying to convince us that Dix would be a bad leader - it must mean that you're actually afraid that he would be highly effective.

I wasn't sure about who to root for in the BC NDP leadership race - but now I've decided. If someone who hates the NDP as intensely as Brian White does - also doesn't like Adrian Dix - then that to me is proof positive that Adrian Dix would be the best possible new leader for the party. When enemies of the party say "black", I say "white"!! (no pun intended)

Sat, 2011-03-19 01:15

#19

Brian White

"We" ? I don't hate the ndp. My mp was in the spiral for paddys day and I spoke to her. I think she is great.

By the way some trolls have 3 heads. "we" indeed.

The only reason you want Dix is because you want the insider to win.

Sat, 2011-03-19 12:45

#20

Stockholm

I don't live in BC so I don't even now who exactly is THE "insider". From what I can tell, they all are "insiders" to some extent. Farnworth has had numerous senior portfolios and been in the leg since 1991 - he seems to be getting backing from a number of "bigwigs". Horgan was deputy chief of staff to Glen Clark when Dix was C of S and he was Dan Miller C of S when he was interim premier in 2000. Sounds pretty "insider" to me too.

In fact, much to the disappointment of the usual NDP-bashers who were expressing such schadenfreude over the schism leading to Carol James quitting - the BC NDP leadership race has turned out NOT to be particularly divisive at all. There don't seem to be any major cleavages between the candidates and apparently the three of them are all good friends (maybe because they are all "insiders") and there has been remarkably little acrimony. There was a brief murmur in January about the new members Dix signed up - but apparently that has been dealt with and none of his opponents seem to care about the issue anymore (if they were I would expect to see some sort of challenge to the party to disallow new members - no one has done that). Its just one big happy family!

I honestly don't know who i would vote for if I lived in BC - but if Brian White hates Dix so much - that goes a long way to making me think that he's the right man for the job! FWIW, I have been told that Dix is extremely intelligent and definitely the smartest of the three (not that the others aren't smart as well).

Sat, 2011-03-19 14:54

#21

Pogo

Stockholm. I think most people have learned to skip over Brians posts and respond only if they are really, really bored (maybe that is your situation).

Having been a YND'r with both Farnsworth and Dix I can say that they both would make a solid leader and are committed party members who have dedicated their careers towards their community. My first vote is going to be with Dana, then Farnsworth. After that I am torn between Dix and Horgan, though I doubt that this will be an issue.

I do wonder though about the voting system and new members. Will the new members vote in higher or lower percentage than the current membership? I also would be very curious about the membership numbers per constituency. I am sure that some of our bigger constituencies are in the southern Vancouver Island.

Sat, 2011-03-19 15:02

#22

Stockholm

Pogo wrote:

I do wonder though about the voting system and new members. Will the new members vote in higher or lower percentage than the current membership? I also would be very curious about the membership numbers per constituency. I am sure that some of our bigger constituencies are in the southern Vancouver Island.

Past experience is that the turnout will be VASTLY higher among people who were members in the first place and that turnout rates among "instant New Democrats" will be abysmal. But rules are meant to be broken.

Mon, 2011-03-21 14:16

#23

pcml

I was at the Debate in Surrey yesterday

I and my team will support Horgan

Harmsworth is a conservative in the wrong party and Dix is a dick in my opinion

Horgan is the best all round choice and I hope he wins

Tue, 2011-03-22 01:34

#24

Jacob Two-Two

I just came back from the debate in Kelowna (though I use the term loosely since the candidates did nothing but agree with one another). I was interested in assessing these guys, not for their policies or character, but simply how they present and who might have the best chance of convincing the province to make them the next Premier.

Simons could never do it, but made it clear without saying so directly that he wasn't there to win. Dana gave the best answers of the night by far, and consequently got the most applause, but we all know he's not electable in the slightest, and even if he was, I don't think the party wants to be led by him, so he's also not a factor. So it's Horgan, Dix, and Farnworth.

All three were good speakers, made good points, and didn't have a lot to distinguish them from each other, so I was left with vague impressions that are hard to back up with solid examples. Dix was perhaps the most polished speaker, but perhaps too polished. He sounded a little too comfortable with what he was doing, walking through the whole thing. Farnworth had the least to say overall I think. He speaks well and has a good style but I have the smallest impression of him content-wise. Horgan had a good hard-charger attitude and seemed like the one with the most common touch. I'm tipping the scales his way at the moment.

Tue, 2011-03-22 13:45

#25

pcml

I agree

Well put !

By the end of the meeting I was stumping my finger up and down and could not even watch dix any more

Some one should make him talk without his arms

I bet he cant !

HORGAN FOR BC NDP LEADER ...Because he is one !!!

Tue, 2011-03-22 23:45

#26

melovesproles

Larsen and Simons are still the only two I feel good about voting for. Not super impressed that Dix has Gerry Scott as his campaign manager, we've seen that movie in BC for a while now and it's been pretty mediocre. Horgan still seems really milquetoast and the idea of living under Farnworth/Harper honestly gives me shivers. Since Simons and Larsen are the ones bringing up issues I care about I might wait and see who they endorse if they go down early as seems to be the consensus prediction.

Wed, 2011-03-23 00:47

#27

Aristotleded24

melovesproles wrote:
Gerry Scott

Question from outside: Is Gerry Scott the person who dropped the ball during the 2008 federal election regarding the number of candidates from BC who had to step down and thereby ran the federal NDP into the ground?

Wed, 2011-03-23 01:02

#28

Stockholm

melovesproles wrote:

Since Simons and Larsen are the ones bringing up issues I care about I might wait and see who they endorse if they go down early as seems to be the consensus prediction.

Its a preferential ballot where members will rank the candidates 1,2,3,4,5 all at once...there will be NO opportunity for endorsements between ballots. It will be a done deal.

Wed, 2011-03-23 01:10

#29

Jacob Two-Two

Yeah, I'll actually be putting Dana as no. 1, since he most closely reflects my own politics, but if nothing happens to change my mind Horgan will be no. 2.

Wed, 2011-03-23 01:18

#30

Jacob Two-Two

melovesproles wrote:
Horgan still seems really milquetoast

I didn't get that impression at all. He struck me as the most forceful candidate behind Dana. What makes you say this?

Wed, 2011-03-23 02:21

#31

pcml

Larsen?

DId you also belong to the LSD Party?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd6mOgUTR0w

And yes Gerry Scott is in the wrong party in my view

Moe Sihota too

Although the party they should be in was disbanded after the second world war

If Farnworth wins you are correct expect the same luke warm response I say

Cristy will be king for life and watch for Green growth

I as I say hope Horgan comes up the middle and the BC NDP then actually matter

Wed, 2011-03-23 20:50

#32

melovesproles

Quote:
Is Gerry Scott the person who dropped the ball during the 2008 federal election regarding the number of candidates from BC who had to step down

Yes. He was Carol James's campaign manager as well.

I don't know what pcml is on about with him being in the wrong party, he is very much an NDPer and from all acounts that I've heard quite a good person. Still, I'm not a fan of his work as campaign manager during the last few outings, especially the way Tousaw and Lam were handled. I feel like there's a bit of a genrational disconnect, I'd like to see the NDP give someone else a shot.

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:08

#33

melovesproles

Quote:

I didn't get that impression at all. He struck me as the most forceful candidate behind Dana. What makes you say this?

I'm going from press releases and what is reported, I caught Farnworth's phone conference but I haven't seen any debates.

From what I've seen so far, I find Horgan is the least policy driven of the three favorites and the most inclined to talk about 'working with business', 'pragmatism', 'consensus building' and the fuzzy buzz words that James liked to trot out in place of policy. Dix seems a lot more ideologically left wing and unapologetic about whose side he is on. That said I'm really not sold on Dix and most people I've talked to say Horgan is more charismatic and he definitely seems a lot more internet savvy than the Dix campaign. I honestly don't know how I'll rank those two, i'm hoping something happens which makes the decision easier, at this point I could flip a coin.

Wed, 2011-03-23 21:26

#34

Aristotleded24

melovesproles wrote:
Quote:
Is Gerry Scott the person who dropped the ball during the 2008 federal election regarding the number of candidates from BC who had to step down

Yes. He was Carol James's campaign manager as well.

I think that says all we need to know about him.

Wed, 2011-03-23 22:31

#35

Basement Dweller

I'm shocked to see Horgan still a distant third.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/118520034.html

Wed, 2011-03-23 23:09

#36

wage zombie

melovesproles wrote:

That said I'm really not sold on Dix and most people I've talked to say Horgan is more charismatic and he definitely seems a lot more internet savvy than the Dix campaign. I honestly don't know how I'll rank those two, i'm hoping something happens which makes the decision easier, at this point I could flip a coin.

Yeah I'm thinking the same. Larsen and Simons will be 1-2 for me (likely in that order) with Farnworth last. I got a call from the Dix campaign tonight, they said that it will be possible to vote four times on the day of, so I may follow Larson and Simons if they try any kingmaking.

Wed, 2011-03-23 23:57

#37

Pogo

Aristotleded24 wrote:

melovesproles wrote:
Quote:
Is Gerry Scott the person who dropped the ball during the 2008 federal election regarding the number of candidates from BC who had to step down

Yes. He was Carol James's campaign manager as well.

I think that says all we need to know about him.

He also was Bob Skelly's campaign manager

Thu, 2011-03-24 01:53

#38

pcml

Gerry Scott libeled a nomination candidate for the 2006 election

It was a slam dunk court case

It would have blown up in his face if the candidate had not been such a good NDP and not as stupid as Gerry

Thu, 2011-03-24 11:01

#39

Aristotleded24

pcml wrote:
Gerry Scott libeled a nomination candidate for the 2006 election

I remember that fiasco.

So why is anybody keeping him around?

Thu, 2011-03-24 14:33

#40

wage zombie

Snert wrote:

Is endangering people driving while stoned any better, morally, than endangering people driving after a couple of beers?

Because I seem to recall a lot of people suggesting that Gordon Campbell should have resigned after being caught driving drunk. If that's unacceptable for a Premier, why would driving while fucked up on drugs be acceptable? After all the hay that the Left made about Gordo, I would think the Libs would be happy to provide some comeuppance if the next leader of the BCNDP is really no better.

You'd have a stronger case if you had studies to back it up.

Or, even anecdotal evidence. How many people do you know who have been in drunk driving accidents vs. stoned driving accidents.

Or, if Campbell hadn't won another majority government in spite of his drunk driving.

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:14

#41

Jerry West

An Open Letter To BCNDP Leadership Candidates

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:24

#42

KenS

Excellent question to the candidates Jerry.

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:33

#43

Dana Larsen

Just to be clear, I didn't ever drive on LSD.

In the late 1990's I filmed a series of videos for Pot-TV. In most of them I'd simple talk about politics and current events while smoking some pot.

In one video, I took LSD and filmed myself as I walked around my local community on the Sunshine Coast. I certainly didn't drive or do anything dangerous or irresponsible in that video.

In a separate video, I am shown at the very end with an unlit joint in my hand, saying something about having one rolled for the road.

I have made it clear on several occasions since then that I do regret that clip and that I don't advocate driving impaired.

However, I don't think that having taken psychedelics should disqualify someone from running for public office.

Frankly, I also don't think having a drinking-driving conviction should disqualify someone from public office either. Although having it happen while you are actually holding public office is a bit different than having it happen over a decade ago.

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:37

#44

Dana Larsen

Here's the answer which I sent to Jerry West in regards to his letter:

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your letter.

I have made Sustainability one of the four pillars of my campaign, along with Democracy, Social Justice and Smart on Crime.

To start, as Leader I would place "Sustainable BC" at the forefront of the next election campaign. We need to present these ideas to the electorate, both because they will resonate with voters if properly presented, and also because winning with such a campaign gives us a strong mandate for change once elected.

As Premier, I would take bold steps to reduce consumption and take a sustainable, very long-term approach to public planning in our Province.

I would begin with transportation, and shift our focus away from more cars and roads, and towards rail and public transportation. I would initiate new rail projects and cancel road-based projects like Gateway.

I would maximize the use of Skytrain and public transit by working to remove the fares. I'd make Skytrain part of the highway system and then work with municipalities on removing fares from all buses.

I would also stop using the GDP as the sole measure of economic success. Any system of measurement which considers someone getting cancer or an oil spill as a positive economic development is obviously terribly flawed. As Premier, I would formalize other measures of social and environmental success, which do not consider natural resources and human health as "externalities."

One example of an alternate measure is the "Happiness Index" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness

Another example is the Genuine Progress Indicator: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genuine_Progress_Indicator

I would also use government funding to subsidize a transition away from petroleum products and towards more sustainable sources of fuel and energy, including wind, tide, solar and geothermal energy sources, among others. I would also work to increase the use of cannabis hemp, an amazing plant whose full potential is severely limited by government policies against marijuana. Hemp must be a key component in any long-term plan to locally and sustainably produce food, fuel, fibre and medicine.

I would also institute a strict system of Caps for major industrial polluters. Not "cap and trade" but simply absolute caps on emissions that would then be reduced by 1-2% per year.

Part of reducing consumption is using locally made products and locally grown food. As fuel prices rise, local production will become even more necessary, and we should be preparing and beginning that transition now.

I would mandate the growth of food on the ALR, and stop ALR land being used as private estates. I would use government procurement to get that fresh locally grown food into our schools and hospitals.

As Premier, I would try to shift our understanding of "growth" in our society. Now we seem mainly focused on economic growth and population growth as goals in and of themselves, which I agree are not sustainable or tenable long-term goals.

I would rather work to achieve intellectual growth, growth in our quality and length of life, growth in our ability to solve current challenges with long-term solutions, growth in our ability to resolve conflicts without violence, growth in our society's ability to ensure quality education and health care, fresh food and clean water, and the other necessities of life to all people. That's the kind of growth I want to see.

These are not easy challenges, and as Premier I cannot fix the world. But as Leader of BCNDP I would do everything in my power to promote a multi-generational and sustainable vision for our province and our planet.

For more details on my various policies and proposals, visit my website at http://www.VoteDana.ca

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:40

#45

Jerry West

I would like to point out that Dana is the only candidate to respond to my open letter (dated March 18) so far. I will also point out that I have not endorsed or offered support to any candidate. I can also say that there appears to be a fair amount of support for John Horgan on the Island, with old timers like Colin Gablemann supporting him. Those interested in Claire's reason for supporting him, after much considerations, can check her web site and her latest MLA report.

Thu, 2011-03-24 16:41

#46

Jerry West

I see while I was composing the above, Dana was posting the letter that I mentioned.

Thu, 2011-03-24 18:02

#47

Brian White

Just a note that Dana would not make pot smoking compulsery. He supports making it legal to grow and buy and consume it for adults.

The proscription could mean zero tolerance and that could mean a far tougher stance.

Like zero pot in a blood test?

And, lets be frank here, how many of your friends would go to gaol if the pot laws were enforced rigidly?

30%? 40%?

I know a cop who agrees with Larsen's position. So lets not battle against economics and logic any more. Lets not build new prisons and go down the right wing American path.

Lets make pot legal for adults.

Of the 3 Candidates who are acceptable to the party backroom, Horgan seems to be performing best.

Hopefully a few of them will answer Gerry's letter too. (Because economics must be based on reality and currently it is based on the fiction of endless growth)

Thu, 2011-03-24 19:09

#48

Jacob Two-Two

Dana Larsen wrote:

I don't think that having taken psychedelics should disqualify someone from running for public office.

If only we could disqualify everyone who hasn't taken psychedelics from running for public office. Or dose up the candidates before the debates. Then we'd hear what they're really thinking for a change. Imagine what would come out of Harper's mouth.

Fri, 2011-03-25 00:22

#49

JKR

Dana Larsen wrote:
However, I don't think that having taken psychedelics should disqualify someone from running for public office.

Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the secret of life

Quote:

FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was under the influence of LSD when he first deduced thedouble-helix structure of DNA nearly 50 years ago.

The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the secret of life.

Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that he often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy to boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle's warm beer, that helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the Nobel Prize.

Despite his Establishment image, Crick was a devotee of novelist Aldous Huxley, whose accounts of his experiments with LSD and another hallucinogen, mescaline, in the short stories The Doors Of Perception and Heaven And Hell became cult texts for the hippies of the Sixties and Seventies. In the late Sixties, Crick was a founder member of Soma, a legalise-cannabis group named after the drug in Huxley's novel Brave New World. He even put his name to a famous letter to The Times in 1967 calling for a reform in the drugs laws.

...

Crick had told him that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.

I'll take Francis Crick or Aldous Huxley over Gordon Campbell or Stephen Harper any old day.

Fri, 2011-03-25 06:30

#50

Slumberjack

Dana Larsen wrote:
However, I don't think that having taken psychedelics should disqualify someone from running for public office.

It's certainly had no impact at the federal level.

Fri, 2011-03-25 09:38

#51

Snert

Quote:

Just to be clear, I didn't ever drive on LSD.

Fair enough. I poked around a bit in old threads and there seemed to be some consensus that this did happen, but I guess you're the horse's mouth, so to speak. I've amended my post.

And of course I don't disagree that nobody should be barred from office for having taken a drug (though voters are free, I guess, to vote or not vote for a candidate for whatever reasons they want, good or bad).

Good luck!

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