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Fri, 2011-03-25 20:02

al-Qa'bong

Boom Boom wrote:

I have three words for Paul McCartney and PETA: Chicken Fried Steak.

(sorry, couldn't resist )

That's funny, and coincidental to boot. Just yesterday, I was reading the wikipaedia article on Buck Owens, and ran across that very phrase:

Quote:

Buck Owens died in his sleep of an apparent heart attack on March 25, 2006, only hours after performing at his Crystal Palace restaurant, club and museum in Bakersfield. He had successfully recovered from oral cancer in the early 1990s, but had additional health problems near the end of the 1990s and the early 2000s, including pneumonia and a minor stroke suffered in 2004. These health problems had forced him to curtail his regular weekly performances with the Buckaroos at his Crystal Palace.

The Los Angeles Times interviewed longtime Owens spokesman (and Buckaroos keyboard player) Jim Shaw, who said Owens "had come to the club early and had a chicken-fried steak dinner and bragged that it's his favorite meal." Afterward, Owens told band members that he wasn't feeling well and was going to skip that night's performance.

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:20

#103

Fidel

Eat healthy and be strong so that we can fight the rotten system long time.

Oh ya, and gorillas are omnivores with some pretty big chompers. They eat mainly fruit, ants and termites though and not meat from larger warm-blooded animals.

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:26

#104

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

RosaL wrote:

I'm just trying to resist a system that causes immense suffering to other creatures.

I'm all for resisting the system, heaven knows. But there are forms of resistance and there are forms of resistance. While to millions of others around the world resistance to the system that causes immense suffering to humans and other creatures means incurring great personal risk and sacrifice - perhaps injury, torture, imprisonment, or death - here in Canada it seems absurd to talk about resistance to that same system by way of making personal dietary choices. Does the system really care one way or the other whether you eat its meat or its fruits or its vegetables?

I too am concerned about the immense suffering of livestock that are regarded as so much raw material for the commodities produced by the mutinational agribusiness giants. But I am also mindful of the immense suffering of human agricultural labourers who toil at growing the fruits and veggies for the vegans of North America to munch on. I despair at the statistics on farmer suicides in India, and the hardships and starvation caused by the giant seed conglomerates with their GM foods and their intellectual property laws.

I just don't think encouraging people to opt out of one kind of consumption in favour of another is effective in either combatting the rotten system or enlightening people about its true nature so they are motivated and equipped to fight against it.

Let me make it clear that I have no criticism of other people's dietary choices. I just don't like it when they represent their choices as being grand political statements or solutions to environmental problems.

---

Was it Steven Wright who said, "I'm a vegetarian - not because I love animals, but because I hate plants."

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:29

#105

RosaL

M. Spector wrote:

RosaL wrote:

I'm just trying to resist a system that causes immense suffering to other creatures.

I'm all for resisting the system, heaven knows. But there are forms of resistance and there are forms of resistance.

....

I just don't think encouraging people to opt out of one kind of consumption in favour of another is effective in either combatting the rotten system or enlightening people about its true nature so they are motivated and equipped to fight against it.

You're the only person to respond to what I've been saying. Thank-you.

I'm not suggesting it as a good way to overthrow the system and in fact I share your disgust and impatience with the idea that consumer or lifestyle choices are the way to change the world. I've taken a fair bit of abuse on babble for that

I think I explained myself badly. I just won't eat the body of a tortured creature; that's all. I won't be part of it - at least not that directly. (I know I'm part of it in all kinds of indirect ways. I do know that.) But it still makes a difference that it's direct involvement and direct benefit. (I love bacon, actually.) Sometimes a person takes a moral stand for reasons that are not utilitarian.

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:32

#106

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I responded because I have the highest regard for you and I know you are capable of intelligent and thoughtful reflection.

Would you refuse to eat meat if you knew it came from an animal that wasn't tortured, like for example a moose that was shot and killed instantly?

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:45

#107

polly bee

Or, for another example, a dalmation?

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:47

#108

polly bee

Or, for another example, a horse?

(actually this was a double post, thought i'd switch it up)

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:48

#109

RosaL

M. Spector wrote:

I responded because I have the highest regard for you and I know you are capable of intelligent and thoughtful reflection.

Would you refuse to eat meat if you knew it came from an animal that wasn't tortured, like for example a moose that was shot and killed instantly?

I haven't thought enough about the moose question to answer but I do eat sardines (which means I'm not really a vegan) so I think that's a partial answer. If it was a matter of survival or health I'm pretty sure I'd eat the moose under the conditions you describe. And that of course is and has been reality for people in many parts of the world for much of history, my own ancestors included.

Fri, 2011-03-25 20:48

#110

polly bee

Quote:
(Life, the Universe..)

If you bother to read and think about what others are saying you will find that at no point did I suggest it is "tickety boo". What I suggested and have actual practical experience, unlike all but a few in this thread, on what the costs of food production are is that there is no real differences in production type when food is grown in the industrialized food system.

No, what you said is "This is based on the assumption that a vegan diet is better for the environment- that is 100 per cent false." Then you went on to explain how the production of fruits and vegetables can also be very destructive, as well as sugar and ethanol production etc... What I am trying to say (and this is the last time I will bother) is that even if there wasn't ONE vegetarian on the planet, there would still be destructive crops of fruits and vegetables, as well as sugar production and ethanol. they would just be there in addition to the destructive practises raising livestock in factory farms. Vegetarians are not the cause of destructive planting practises, as many of these posts would lead you to believe.

Having said that, I am out of this thread for now. Carry on.

Fri, 2011-03-25 21:34

#111

Catchfire

Closing for length. Continue here.

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