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Canada's Federal Election Talk - Monday, May 2, 2011 (2)
Sat, 2011-03-26 19:43
#1
Canada's Federal Election Talk - Monday, May 2, 2011 (2)
Sat, 2011-03-26 18:44
#2
Harper's hypocrisy on the coalition issue is beginning to be picked up and reported by the media more and more:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/text-stephen-harpers-2004-letter-signed-layton-...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/deal-2004-had-harper-singing-different-tune-opp...
Sat, 2011-03-26 18:47
#3
This guy's fantastic and will blow Harper out of the water every time.
http://www.youtube.com/BlocQuebecois
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:00
#4
The summer of 2004
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:11
#5
This guy's fantastic and will blow Harper out of the water every time.
http://www.youtube.com/BlocQuebecois
No doubt, he's got the gift.
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:14
#6
If Gilles Duceppe were the leader of the Liberals, he'd be Prime Minister by now.
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:25
#7
"They all come to us. They all want to be in our bed, but don't want to marry us."
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:41
#8
N.Beltov
That's a great quote.
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:47
#9
Yes it sure is - I saw Duceppe deliver that today - it was hilarious! 
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:03
#10
I haven't watched any t.v. coverage today of the leaders or their press conferences. Have the media been questioning Harper over his 2004 arrangement with Layton and Duceppe or asked him about his hypocrisy? Now that Layton and Duceppe are going after Harper on this, the media should be giving it some attention.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:05
#11
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:09
#12
Duceppe: "If he lost it, I'll send him a copy."
- talking today about the 2004 Harper accord/coalition with Layton and Duceppe.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:14
#13
alan smithee
Checked out the CBC and they have a survey to see which party best suits your values.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/votecompass/
According to the survey I should vote for the Greens..LOL!
It seems to me to be a little tilted in favour of the Cons..Maybe I'm paranoid...You be the judges.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:21
#14
alan smithee
I've been saying for years that Duceppe is the best leader in Ottawa.
The man hardly ever fumbles the issues or flip flops.
He's also probably the most intelligent of the 4.
I think he'd have a reasonably easy time dethroning King Stephen of New Reagenshire if he was the leader of the Liberals.
I'm sure he knows it..But he rarely contradicts himself and he's not 1/100th as hypocritical as the other leaders.
And I think,in the end,if the Tories don't get a majority,Canada should thank Gilles Duceppe because it will be the Bloc blocking the blokes.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:24
#15
Funny I came up Green too, yet I know some of the things they attribute to being Green positions are not correct. I am pretty suspicious of it because on the leadership questons I ranked May where she deserved - on the bottom. (By the way I helped to found the Greens in Ontario and have a pretty good handle on where current policy stands - so when I say the stuff they claim are Green policies I'm actually basing that on something.)
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:32
#16
Nothing Iggy said precludes the possibility that Harper could fail to win a majority - have his Throne speech defeated by the combined opposition, then have the GG invite Ignatieff to form a government and he then forms a minority government with no coalition with anyone.
This is true, but there is a real big caveat. Two caveats actually.
The normal minority situation is that all partises state their intentions, and if the government is not going to get support, they resign without tabling a Throne Speech [and Budget in this case], and testing the confidence of the House. Essentially, confidence is tested 'informally'- in negotiations before the House sits; and a government that cannot get confidence resigns.
Having said that the party that has the most seats gets to form government is not consistent with Hareper saying that witholding confidence is the same as not letting them form government. And it would be true. There would be enough fuzziness the Liberals could get away with it. But it would require them being bold and decisive. They would not be.
Even bigger caveat is that the Liberals would be terribly exposed trying to govern without a formal arrangement with the NDP. They would really need the NDP commited for a couple years.
Put all that together and the bottom line is:
At a minimum, the Liberals have with todays statement constrained their manouvering room after the election. A governing agreement was already anything but a slam dunk. And there are myriad specific Liberal weaknesses that stand in the way of them fulsomely trying to make a governing agreement work. And then they just went and added some more constraints. It is now much more likely that for one reason or another, or for a combination of them, that Iggy and the Liberals will just pass on trying to wrest the prize from Harper.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:37
#17
I've been saying for years that Duceppe is the best leader in Ottawa.
The man hardly ever fumbles the issues or flip flops.
He's also probably the most intelligent of the 4.
Duceppe has a remarkably easy job. He only has to campaign in one province so he never has to deal with any issues that pit one part of the country against another. He makes it known right off the bat that he is NOT running to be PM of Canada and would not accept the job if offered - he never has to take any responsibility for anything or take any real positions on anything. All he has to do is say "I wll support whatever gives Quebec more money" - and he instantly wins 2/3 of the seats in Quebec. I wish i could make $200,000/year for such an EASY job. In all the years since Duceppe has been leader of the BQ - when has he ever had to make a difficult decision? It would be fascinating to see how he would fare if he was leader of the PQ (or even Premier) and had to actually take some difficult positions and be put on the ropes. I suspect we would very quickly see plenty of fumbles and flip flips.
I'm not sure what gives you the idea that he's the "most intelligent" of the four leaders. How do you measure intelligence anyways? Comparative IQ scores? I know that Ignatieff (whatever people think of him) is certainly a very intelligent man. You don't get a PhD and lecture at places like Oxford and Harvard and write tons of books unless you're pretty smart. Layton has a PhD in political economy and has written several books addressing complex issues etc... what evidence is there of Duceppe being particularly intelligent? As far as i know, he has no great academic credentials, he has written no books, published no papers that have been hailed as intellectual masterpieces. I have heard that he has an encyclopedic memory for baseball statistics - does that make him the most intelligent leader? I dunno. Harper is no idiot either - much as I hate him.
Gilles Duceppe - Canada's most over-rated politician!
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:48
#18
I love it.
Not the first time I'm hearing official oposition and NDP mentioned in the same breath.
Layton's call: 'Kick every Conservative MP out of Edmonton'
"In the last two-and-a-half years, Linda Duncan has fought for Edmonton families, fought for this city and fought for Alberta. She has done an outstanding job. Now, in this election, I'm not asking Edmonton to just re-elect Linda Duncan. I'm asking you to come together and kick every Conservative MP out of Edmonton."
It's a tall order.
But the New Democrats who, for the second election in a row say they will spend the maximum allowed under Election Canada rules, have put money into radio ads specifically crafted to reach voters in this city.
"Are you guys fed up with Stephen Harper?" asks a male voice in one of the spots. "Are you tired of Edmonton being taken for granted?"
The ad attempts to make a villain of the Conservative Leader. But its targets are the Liberals who once voted in large numbers for Anne McLellan.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/laytons-call-kick-every-con...
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:52
#19
Boom Boom
I love it that Stephen Harper will now go into the history books as Prime Minister of the only government in Canadian history ever to be found in contempt of Parliament.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:53
#20
alan smithee
Funny I came up Green too, yet I know some of the things they attribute to being Green positions are not correct. I am pretty suspicious of it because on the leadership questons I ranked May where she deserved - on the bottom. (By the way I helped to found the Greens in Ontario and have a pretty good handle on where current policy stands - so when I say the stuff they claim are Green policies I'm actually basing that on something.)
Yeah...I had May at the bottom too.
Had Layton and Duceppe at the top...In fact I had the Greens at the bottom but just ahead of the Cons for virtually all the answers.. and I still came out as a Green.
Something just doesn't add up.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:59
#21
alan smithee
I've been saying for years that Duceppe is the best leader in Ottawa.
The man hardly ever fumbles the issues or flip flops.
He's also probably the most intelligent of the 4.
Duceppe has a remarkably easy job. He only has to campaign in one province so he never has to deal with any issues that pit one part of the country against another. He makes it known right off the bat that he is NOT running to be PM of Canada and would not accept the job if offered - he never has to take any responsibility for anything or take any real positions on anything. All he has to do is say "I wll support whatever gives Quebec more money" - and he instantly wins 2/3 of the seats in Quebec. I wish i could make $200,000/year for such an EASY job. In all the years since Duceppe has been leader of the BQ - when has he ever had to make a difficult decision? It would be fascinating to see how he would fare if he was leader of the PQ (or even Premier) and had to actually take some difficult positions and be put on the ropes. I suspect we would very quickly see plenty of fumbles and flip flips.
I'm not sure what gives you the idea that he's the "most intelligent" of the four leaders. How do you measure intelligence anyways? Comparative IQ scores? I know that Ignatieff (whatever people think of him) is certainly a very intelligent man. You don't get a PhD and lecture at places like Oxford and Harvard and write tons of books unless you're pretty smart. Layton has a PhD in political economy and has written several books addressing complex issues etc... what evidence is there of Duceppe being particularly intelligent? As far as i know, he has no great academic credentials, he has written no books, published no papers that have been hailed as intellectual masterpieces. I have heard that he has an encyclopedic memory for baseball statistics - does that make him the most intelligent leader? I dunno. Harper is no idiot either - much as I hate him.
Gilles Duceppe - Canada's most over-rated politician!
OK...so I can't measure their intelligence to make an informed opinion on their individual IQ's.
But I CAN measure honesty...And Duceppe is by far more honest of the bunch.
There was a time when I'd say Layton but he has done a 360 on alot of issues he initially supported...and that was probably to apease a percentile of potential electorate that he had and still has no chance of ever winning over.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:07
#22
...and Duceppe doesn't have to even state any positions - its always just "whatever gives Quebec the most money and power". I wish i had such a dead easy job.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:07
#23
If anyone wants to reach for lower benchmarks for the Liberals, I've mentally figured that if one rules out every seat or equivalent that the Liberals haven't held continuously since the Turner disaster of 1984, that'd only be about 15 seats or so, give or take...
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:15
#24
Funny I came up Green too, yet I know some of the things they attribute to being Green positions are not correct. I am pretty suspicious of it because on the leadership questons I ranked May where she deserved - on the bottom. (By the way I helped to found the Greens in Ontario and have a pretty good handle on where current policy stands - so when I say the stuff they claim are Green policies I'm actually basing that on something.)
Yeah...I had May at the bottom too.
Had Layton and Duceppe at the top...In fact I had the Greens at the bottom but just ahead of the Cons for virtually all the answers.. and I still came out as a Green.
Something just doesn't add up.
Something REALLY doesn't add up. I went back and did it again, but gave different answers. I then scored Layton and the NDP very high in the final two sets of questions. I STILL came up as closest to the Greens. Something stinks to high heaven with that thing.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:25
#25
My guess is it is more tilted away from the NDP, and maybe even the BQ as I rated Duceppe well, and towards the Liberals.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:30
#26
I agree Alan, and same thing happened with me.
It's just more CBC Liberal bullshit that we have been used to for far, far, too long.
Something REALLY doesn't add up. I went back and did it again, but gave different answers. I then scored Layton and the NDP very high in the final two sets of questions. I STILL came up as closest to the Greens. Something stinks to high heaven with that thing.
[/quote]
Lol...I'm going to try it one more time.
Maybe it's tilted in favour of the greens :D
[/quote]
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:33
#27
alan smithee
Something REALLY doesn't add up. I went back and did it again, but gave different answers. I then scored Layton and the NDP very high in the final two sets of questions. I STILL came up as closest to the Greens. Something stinks to high heaven with that thing.
Lol...I'm going to try it one more time.
Maybe it's tilted in favour of the greens :D
ETA - OK,this survey is incredibly inaccurate.
I did it a second time and slightly change a couple answers and I scored in favour of the Bloc.
THEN I did it a third time almost identical answers,maybe one or 2 different and I scored in favour of the Greens--again.
May as well call Jo Jo Savard...Hell,she'd probably make a more accurate and educated prediction..What a joke.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:33
#28
Boom Boom
The CBC quiz has me closest to the Greens, which is total bullsh*t, as I scored E. May as incompetent and least likely on something or other. The only thing Green I came close to responding to was that the 'environment' is an issue for me, but the NDP has a better environmental platform. This CBC quiz is a piece of crap.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:37
#29
The CBC needs to be seriously attacked for this election trickery. The CBC are playing games with voters' heads. We all know the CBC don't like Harper's contempt of Parliament but what the CBC is doing is right up there with Harper's sickening tactics. Where's the puke bag!!!
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:48
#30
One more data point. I filled it out, much as others have said, giving very low ratings to May on everything, but I still came out as closest to the Greens. I think I will write the CBC and request that they make public the algorithm which they are using to calculate their answers.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:48
#31
About that CBC poll thing. How you rate the leaders has no bearing on where the poll places you.
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:55
#32
If anyone wants to reach for lower benchmarks for the Liberals, I've mentally figured that if one rules out every seat or equivalent that the Liberals haven't held continuously since the Turner disaster of 1984, that'd only be about 15 seats or so, give or take...
Actually, it's exactly 15:
- Davenport
- Eglinton--Lawrence
- Labrador
- Hull--Aylmer
- Humber--St. Barbe--Baie Verte
- Mount Royal
- Notre-Dame-de-Grâce--Lachine
- Ottawa--Vanier
- Saint-Henri--Westmount
- Saint-Léonard--Anjou
- Vancouver Quadra
- Winnipeg South Centre
- York Centre
- York South--Weston
- York West
Sat, 2011-03-26 22:58
#33
I have just sent the following complaint to the CBC ombudsman.
I am not a Green Party supporter, nor do I agree with most of their policies, which I have spent the time to look up. I am a strong NDP supporter.When I took this questionnaire, my answers were all consistent with NDP policy, and I gave high ratings to the NDP and Jack Layton, and very low ratings to GPC and Liz May.
Nonetheless, the thing told me that I am closest to the Greens. This result is absurd. What is more, many others have reported the same result on rabble.ca.
I object to this program as a worse than useless monstrosity. It is guaranteed to give misleading results to many people.
I demand that the CBC make the details of the algorithm behind this shoddy software public, so that they can be professionally critiqued, or else withdraw the misleading app before it misleads more users.
If neither of these are done, I will be complaining to the CRTC next week.
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:09
#34
If you want another indicator of possible "CBC Liberal bullsh*t" bias--I spent my day daytripping with nothing more than CBC Radio 1 as my running media connection. I heard Harper's election announcement. I heard Iggy's response. I heard nothing from Layton, whether on "The House" or on subsequent top-of-the-hour newscasts that I caught. He may have been a "star act" today; but you wouldn't have known it from what the National Broadcaster was (not) conveying...
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:18
#35
alan smithee
I have just sent the following complaint to the CBC ombudsman.
I am not a Green Party supporter, nor do I agree with most of their policies, which I have spent the time to look up. I am a strong NDP supporter.When I took this questionnaire, my answers were all consistent with NDP policy, and I gave high ratings to the NDP and Jack Layton, and very low ratings to GPC and Liz May.
Nonetheless, the thing told me that I am closest to the Greens. This result is absurd. What is more, many others have reported the same result on rabble.ca.
I object to this program as a worse than useless monstrosity. It is guaranteed to give misleading results to many people.
I demand that the CBC make the details of the algorithm behind this shoddy software public, so that they can be professionally critiqued, or else withdraw the misleading app before it misleads more users.
If neither of these are done, I will be complaining to the CRTC next week.
Thanks,MM 
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:31
#36
I just took the quiz and it says I'm closest to the Greens too. I mean, huh? This is kind of weird. At least it did say I'm furthest from the Cons.
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:32
#37
N.Beltov
Don't wait until next week.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:01
#38
The CBC Compas questionnaire says I'm NDP.
--------
The questionnaire has two variables:
1 - economic position (left or right)
2 - social (conservative or liberal)
The NDP is placed placed on the left side of the economic axis and on the top side of the social axis. If you score high with these two variables, you are considered NDP. If you're socially liberal and economically left, you are considered NDP.
The Greens are placed toward the left side of the economic axis but they are much closer to the centre of the social axis than the NDP is.
The reason people here are being considered Green and not NDP is that they score toward the centre of the social conservative/liberal paradigm where the Greens have been placed.
If you want to be considered NDP by the Compas questionnaire, just switch your answers on the social questions. If you take less conservative positions on social issues and more liberal ones, you'll be considered NDP.
I switched my answers to make them more socially conservative and suddently I became a Green too.
Just to make sure I answered them again with my honest answers and the Compas questionnaire put me back firmly into the top left quadrant where they situate the NDP.
The Compas graph shows the positioning of the parties relative to the 2 axises. Presumably it places the parties on the graph according to their stated policies on economic and social questions.
Maybe many people here are closest to the stated positions of the Greens?
Or maybe Compas has the NDP being too liberal socially?
Or maybe Compas has the Greens being too economically liberal?
I think the latter is probaly the closest to the truth. The Greens seem to have been placed too far to the left of the economic spectrum. But then again, their stated policies might place them there.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:09
#39
If people want to see the answers that are considered to be the party's "correct answers" by the Compas questionnaire they can point their cursor on the labels of the parties on the graph. At that point a picture of the leader of the party in question will appear. You can then click "compare with your responses" to see what Compas considers to be the answers the parties give to their questions.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:15
#40
Like many of the others, I was judged to be a Green, despite being a solid NDPer. Fortunately, there's a section at the end where you can see "Your Position per Statement" and compare it with the party's position. In a lot of cases, the NDP's "official" position has drifted centrewards from where I think it should be. So for instance, I put "Much less" for military spending, while the NDP's position is "about the same"; I put "strongly agree" for Carbon Tax, but the NDP's position is "somewhat disagree"; I put "strongly agree" for decriminalising marijuana, but the NDP's position is only "somewhat agree".
So on all those questions, I scored a perfect match for the Greens, and was off somewhat from the NDP's official position. And as far as I can tell, "You Position" is based only on the 30 questions. The trust and competence ratings only apply to the section "Your Picks for Prime Minister", where Jack edged out Gilles Duceppe for me.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:19
#41
Concerning the Compas questionnaire, these are:
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:23
#42
Or maybe Compas has the Greens being too economically liberal?
I think the latter is probaly the closest to the truth. The Greens seem to have been placed too far to the left of the economic spectrum. But then again, their stated policies might place them there.
I suspect this is the case. My answers put me above and to the left of all the parties, but I was classified as Green. But of course, the Greens are all about "market based solutions" which are not left at all.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:32
#43
Its weird that they have the NDP policy as "neither agree nort disagree" on the statement supporting daycare - when in fact that is a bedrock NDP policy?
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:52
#44
I love it that Stephen Harper will now go into the history books as Prime Minister of the only government in Canadian history ever to be found in contempt of Parliament.
Yes. It is perfect.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:01
#45
Its weird that they have the NDP policy as "neither agree nort disagree" on the statement supporting daycare - when in fact that is a bedrock NDP policy?
The question asks: The government should fund daycare instead of giving money directly to parents
The NDP's position is that the Universal Child Care Benefit should be maintained. The Green's support getting rid of the Benefit.
Bowing to political reality where a lot of families, rich and poor alike, appreciate the $100 they get every month, the NDP has taken the position that it should be maintained it but I'm sure most NDP'ers would like to get rid of it and free up the money to put into daycare.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:03
#46
The CBC makes it sound like the NDP is neutral on the issue of having a national child care program when in fact the NDP has supported that for the past 40 years and demanded that it be part of the coalition agreement with the Liberals in 2008 - even though the Liberals kept insisting on putting money into their beloved corporate tax cuts instead.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:26
#47
Vote Compass is independent of the CBC.
Who created Vote Compass?
Vote Compass is an academic project developed by a team of Canadian political scientists, including an advisory panel comprised of the country’s most prominent scholars in the study of electoral politics.
Vote Compass is modelled after a similar online application available in Europe, called Kieskompas. Kieskompas founder and director, Professor André Krouwel of the Free University Amsterdam, acted as consultant and quality control monitor to the Vote Compass project.
...
What is the relationship between Vote Compass and CBC?
CBC News is the Vote Compass media sponsor for the 2011 Canadian federal election. CBC News provides support and promotion for Vote Compass and, in return, receives exclusive access to real-time analysis from the academic team. Vote Compass remains an independent entity and operates at arm’s length from CBC News. CBC News has no control over the content of the application.
Compas likely has no hidden agenda but they are misrepresenting the NDP's ideology, but not by very much.
The problem seems to be that the NDP and Greens share similar positions on many issues and this skews these kinds of simplistic surveys.
This is also why the Greens cost the NDP a lot of votes and why the Green supporters second choice is usually the NDP.
This questionnaire highlights the idiocy of FPTP that penalizes parties that are not miles away from other parties on the political spectrum.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:31
#48
knownothing
Duceppe's best line was when he said the Minister of science thought the world was 6000 years old. He said they believed in the Flintstones and Dino. But it is true about how he has nothing to stand for except Quebec, easy job. Non-ideological.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:32
#49
I love it that Stephen Harper will now go into the history books as Prime Minister of the only government in Canadian history ever to be found in contempt of Parliament.Yes. It is perfect.
What's NOT so perfect is that it's not getting a lot of media attention.
I just watched CBC and CTV national news over the past couple hours and the main topic the reporters are talking about is the coalition instead of asking Harper about the ethical and contempt issues. The Conservatives may be winning the opening days of the campaign if we can't get the media to start griling Harper.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:33
#50
The problem seems to be that the NDP and Greens share similar positions on many issues and this skews these kinds of simplistic surveys.
This is also why the Greens cost the NDP a lot of votes and why the Green supporters second choice is usually the NDP.
This questionnaire highlights the idiocy of FPTP that penalizes parties that are not miles away from other parties on the political spectrum.
The most telling thing is that for question after question you see four parties grouped close together, and the Conservatives way off in deep space. And thanks to FPTP, we end up being governed by the party whose values are most foreign to the bulk of the Canadian population.
In any case, it was a bit of simplistic fun. On a par with those personality tests which ask you thirty questions and determine that your personality type is INTJ.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:46
#51
Justin Trudeau and Ben Mulroney are proposing a truce in the war of words between their parties:
http://twitter.com/BenMulroney1976/status/51814388201558016