Continued from here.
Libya X
Sat, 2011-03-26 11:03
#1
Libya X
Sat, 2011-03-26 13:04
#2
laine lowe
This is a powerful opinion piece that provides an excellent historic perspective:
[b]THE MEANINGLESS CONCEPT OF ETHICAL WAR[/b]
...The record for intervention is one of greater death and destruction than the threats it is supposed to stop where it is used and of allowing monstrous crimes to go unchallenged where it is avoided. Indeed, it has been avoided always where monstrous crimes are involved, the very situations in which its human costs might be more than offset by what it prevents. Nowhere in the record is there any consistency with regard to principle despite the press releases accompanying every new bombardment.
The glimmer of moral satisfaction we feel at the first instance of an event such as the French jets destroying some of Gaddafi’s armor about to attack a city is badly misplaced, for if ethics or morality is to mean anything, it must absolutely be consistent in application. You cannot meaningfully speak of selective ethics.
At the very time of the events in Libya, we have the same civil unrest and demands for an end to absolute and unaccountable government in Yemen and Bahrain, and they have been met with fairly large-scale abuse and killings by police. Literally scores have been shot dead in the streets. In the case of Bahrain, we have troops from Saudi Arabia – an absolute monarchy much resembling something from the 14th century – entering the country to assist Bahrain’s government in stopping its people seeking freedom.
Now, anyone who knows anything about the Mideast knows that Saudi Arabia would not march a single platoon of soldiers across its border without explicit approval from Washington. It just cannot be otherwise because America keeps an intensely close watch on matters affecting its client-state, Israel, and because Saudi Arabia’s advanced weapons come from America, and also because, following 9/11, most of the perpetrators having been Saudi nationals, Saudi Arabia has had to work long and hard to gain some trust back from Washington.
So where is the moral or ethical balance? Help the tyrant in Bahrain and attack the one in Libya? Why is only Libya a target?...
http://chuckman.blog.ca/2011/03/25/the-meaningless-concept-of-ethical-wa...
Sat, 2011-03-26 13:15
#3
Posted by NDPP in previous thread
but I wait breathlessly to see how this is woven into the mainstream media's eternal "good guys, bad guys" narrative:
From the Telegraph
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime.
....
Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters "are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists," but added that the "members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/840...
Sat, 2011-03-26 13:18
#4
Northern Shoveler
We are still in Khandar after the liberation ten years ago. Not a single major party in Canada is opposing NATO's aggresion. I am very saddened by the spectacle. In another thread a poster was talking about how a spy might affect Canadians travelling. I wonder how becoming the point of the imperial spear is going to help our image abroad.
Sat, 2011-03-26 13:41
#5
...
From the Telegraph
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
,,.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/840...
Since all recognizable Canadian parties have supported this intervention--either enthusiastically, or in the sad and degenerate pursuit of positive mention in the right-wing press-- there is no wiggle room to ask: "Why Is Harper bombing, in order support Al Qaeda?"
Sat, 2011-03-26 14:52
#6
And, for those who claim that the US was suckered by the Arab League into a "humanitarian intervention" now have the ultimate graceful out.
The last excuse for "humanitarian intervention" in oil rich Libya has just evaporated with the most prominant figure in the rebellion telling foreigners to "get out":
However, Mr [Mahmoud]Jibril said: "We do not want outside forces. We won't need them. We will win the first battle thanks to you. We will win the next battle through our own means."French, US and British air strikes against the regime of longtime Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi began a week ago under UN Security Council Resolution 1973, which authorised "all necessary means" to protect civilians and set up a no-fly zone over the north African country.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/rebels-thank-france-but-want-outsid...
Now, the US/NATO can pick up its bombs and go home and claim a "job well done". How quickly will the all new humanitarian US/NATO evaporate from the scene? (hint:oil)
Sat, 2011-03-26 19:43
#7
Washington Seeks NATO Cover For Protracted War Against Libya - by Bill Van Auken
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/liby-m26.shtml
"Reports from Libya on the disarray within the ranks of the armed opposition to Gaddafi based in Benghazi, point to the likelihood that such an intervention will prove necessary to accomplish the aim of 'regime change' unless Washington and its allies are able to provoke some kind of coup within the existing regime itself. Rebel fighters who once vowed to seize Tripoli from Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi instead have retreated from their forward positions to defend their homes, saying their rebel council isn't leading them, they don't trust their military commanders and their army is divided...
Perhaps most unnerving was the discovery that hundreds if not thousands of Gadhafi sympathizers were among them, the report added. 'During the loyalist attack, rebels here say, men in civilian clothes (civilians, obviously) came out of their Benghazi homes and attacked the city along with Gadhafi forces charging in from the south. She quoted Benghazi residents describing the National Council in Benghazi, which recently proclaimed itself an 'interim government' as 'useless' and one who predicted that the city itself could erupt into a civil war..."
Sat, 2011-03-26 20:33
#8
N.Beltov
Libyans protest against NATO slaughter of civilians.
Hundreds of Libyan citizens marched in a funeral procession in Tripoli on Thursday for civilian victims of Western bombing raids.Nato military officials maintain that no civilians have been killed since France, Britain, the United States, Denmark and Italy kicked off the aerial assault last Saturday
There is no truth to the rumour that the NATO aggressors have targeted the protests with air strikes.
Yet.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:11
#9
Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime.
....Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters "are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists," but added that the "members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader".
This was only to be expected from U.S. and E.U., etc., military interference.
The Pentagon says, "We need to get militarily involved in Libya because Al Qaeda is there."
So the U.S.A. militarily interferes in Libya.
The Result?
"Al Qaeda/Al CIAeda" joins the Libyan People's/Libertaria Revolution to fight the forein military interference in Libya -
A self-fulfilling scenario prophesied by both the Pentagon and Moammar Gadhafi.
Ironic.
No?
Or perhaps they were in cahoots with each other all along.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:16
#10
Washington Seeks NATO Cover For Protracted War Against Libya - by Bill Van Auken
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/liby-m26.shtml
"Reports from Libya on the disarray within the ranks of the armed opposition to Gaddafi based in Benghazi, point to the likelihood that such an intervention will prove necessary to accomplish the aim of 'regime change' unless Washington and its allies are able to provoke some kind of coup within the existing regime itself. Rebel fighters who once vowed to seize Tripoli from Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi instead have retreated from their forward positions to defend their homes, saying their rebel council isn't leading them, they don't trust their military commanders and their army is divided...
Perhaps most unnerving was the discovery that hundreds if not thousands of Gadhafi sympathizers were among them, the report added. 'During the loyalist attack, rebels here say, men in civilian clothes (civilians, obviously) came out of their Benghazi homes and attacked the city along with Gadhafi forces charging in from the south. She quoted Benghazi residents describing the National Council in Benghazi, which recently proclaimed itself an 'interim government' as 'useless' and one who predicted that the city itself could erupt into a civil war..."
As bad as things are in Benghazi, let us not forget that things are just as bad in Tripoli.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:25
#11
This is pretty ugly.
I don't suppose she'll be seen again.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:27
#12
http://original.antiwar.com/bonnie-kristian/2011/03/24/10-reasons-the-us...
"Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." - John Quincy Adams.
"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison.
Sat, 2011-03-26 21:40
#13
[url=http://globalbreakingnews.com/news/3326/86/British-intelligence-worked-w... intelligence worked with Al CIA'da to kill Qaddafi[/color][/url]
The real and illegal goal of what is called Operation Odyssey Dawn, is regime change. Replaying the nightmarish Gulf war scenario, the plan is clear: to disable Libya's defense ability, and to arm and strengthen the reactionary conglomerate of rebel forces in Benghazi, in the hope that this rag tag bunch will roll back, once and for all, the Libyan revolution...
Al-MI5'n6da = Al-CIA'da? Who knew!
Blood-for-oil hounds of London again. I think it's a Warren Zevon tune.
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:18
#14
Coalition Forces Paving Rebels' Way To Libyan Oil Facilities
http://in.news.yahoo.com/coalition-forces-paving-rebels-way-libyan-oil-f...
"The international coalition enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya is bombing both military and civilian targets to pave the rebels' war to oil facilities, a military source has told Libya's official JANA national news agency. The coalition raids 'have nothing to do with the protection of civilians,' the source said Saturday. 'The coalition forces are methodically paving the way for Al-Qaeda's gangs so that they seize as many oil fields and facilities and territories as possible...' The source said the coalition was obviously coordinating attacks with the rebels..
'Al Qaeda Snatched Missiles' In Libya
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/al-qaeda-snatched-missiles-in-libya...
"Al Qaeda's offshoot in North Africa has snatched surface to air missiles from an arsenal in Libya during the civil strike there, Chad's President says. Indriss Deby ltno did not say how many surface to air missiles were stolen, but told the African weekly Jeune Africa, that he was '100 % sure' of his assertions. 'The Islamists of al-Qaeda took advantage of the pillaging of arsenals in the rebel zone to acquire arms, including surface to air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries in Tenere,' a desert region of the Sahara that stretches from Northeast Niger to Western Chad, Deby said in the interview..
'This is very serious. AQIM is becoming a genuine army, the best equipped in the region,' he said. His claim was echoed by officials in other countries in the region who said they were worried that al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) might have acquired 'heavy weapons' thanks to the insurrection. Elsewhere in the interview, Chad's president backed the assertion by his neighbour and erst while enemy Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi that the protests in Libya have been driven in part by al-Qaeda.."
RT: Libya and Iraq Turning into 'Black Holes'
http://rt.com/news/libya-iraq-gaddafi-middle-east/print/
"Gumer Isagev ME expert and faculty professor at St Petersburg State University, talks about causes behind the conflict in Libya, Jamahiriya, the Green Book, and Russia's stake in regard to the Libyan conflict...
Libya's uprising was armed and quite possibly relied on some external support. There are witnesses who confirm that the uprising was pre-planned, that groups of youths attacked police and local authorities' buildings in different towns at the same time. But the crucial role was played by the fact Gaddafi secured the support of a large share of the population, especially in the country's capital and in the West. There were no massive protests in Tripoli and the rebellious east has demonstrated the breakaway ambitions of Cyrenaica..
...The Colonel didn't entirely 'mend his ways' - the Americans got hold of only a small share of Libya's oil reserves; the Lockerbie bombing, through paid for, was never admitted guilty for and the project to privatize the state oil production company also feel through. Gaddafi was actively promoting the idea of African unity and a single currency pegged to gold. And he heavily criticized the West's policies in Asia and Africa. Removal of sanctions in 2003 stimulated economic growth and turned Libya into a rapidly developing economy capable of making Gaddafi's dream come through i.e. turning Libya into the leading power of the region.
Therefore it is not about Gaddafi's Western partners suddenly becoming appalled at his being cruel to the rebels. Western powers simply took advantage of the situation, i.e. a temporary weakness of the Libyan leader, to back up the uprising.. The recipe for intevening in internal affairs of countries is basically the same. The paralells with Iraq are obvious. Aggression was preceded by a media attack whose goal was to justify the necessity to overthrow the ruling regime..
In the case of Libya, the focus was made on the 'bloodthirstyness' of the regime and the story of dealing cruelly with peaceful protesters circled the globe...
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:34
#15
Rebels-WINNING!
Anyway frmr to condense my reply to you I'll just say that what states do to other states really should not be of any serious concern to any serious anti capitalist unless there really is unwanted loss of life at stake which there isn't here and you also should not be making focal points of states and creating agency and analysis around them, in terms of the US they-due to a historical happenstance-are a fairly big fish in the game of leviathan, but as the saying goes don't hate the player hate the game, the game is spiritual reification backed up by institutional power and domination and ecomomic exploitation, that is what matters not good states and bad states or good and bad anything for that matter.
Also you really don't understand the reality of might makes right, its sad that you are so blinded by what I see as an entrenched judeo slave morality, it really has nothing to do with strong and weak terms which are for the most part abstractions.
Sat, 2011-03-26 23:39
#16
N.Beltov
How many dead Libyan civilians - killed by NATO - is enough? Or is Gadaffi's "bloodthirstyness" the only kind that matters?
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:18
#17
Anyway frmr to condense my reply to you I'll just say that what states do to other states really should not be of any serious concern to any serious anti capitalist unless there really is unwanted loss of life at stake which there isn't here and you also should not be making focal points of states and creating agency and analysis around them, in terms of the US they-due to a historical happenstance-are a fairly big fish in the game of leviathan, but as the saying goes don't hate the player hate the game, the game is spiritual reification backed up by institutional power and domination and ecomomic exploitation, that is what matters not good states and bad states or good and bad anything for that matter.
Also you really don't understand the reality of might makes right, its sad that you are so blinded by what I see as an entrenched judeo slave morality, it really has nothing to do with strong and weak terms which are for the most part abstractions.
Simply put,
It's got nothing to do with capitalism versus anti-capitalism, statism versus anti-statism or a Nietzschean anti-judeo slave untermensch versus pro-master ubermensch morality, with me.
You and I are categorically at odds with each other.
You are pro-war and pro-interventionist with this "Might makes Right" b.s.
I am anti-war and anti-interventionist.
That's it. PERIOD.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:33
#18
Libyan War and Control Of The Mediterranean - by Rick Rozoff
http://www.voltairenet.org/article169111.html
"Had Muammar Gaddafi, become too pesky for the likes of Nicolas Sarkozy and his Atlanticist partners, by standing in the way of their agenda for the domination of the Mediterranean Sea region? France's direct role in nurturing the rebellion against the Libyan leader is no longer a secret. In this article, Rick Rozoff offers some additional pointers, and analyzes the Libyan war in the context of the advancing transformation of the Mediterranean into NATO's mare nostrum...
The defeat and conquest directly or by proxy, of Libya would secure a key outpost for the Pentagon and NATO on the Mediterranean Sea..."
These imperial renovations and their 'collateral damages' mean nothing to the power wielders. Saw dust. We need to take them on. Not vote for them.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:35
#19
How many dead Libyan civilians - killed by NATO - is enough? Or is Gadaffi's "bloodthirstyness" the only kind that matters?
Good point.
I am opposed to the U.S., U.N., E.U., NATO and Arab League, etc., military interference in Libya.
I also feel that whatever good Gadhafi achieved in the past and whatever legitimacy he had, he negated and destroyed it when he tore up the "Social Contract" (so to speak) with the Libyan People and started his war against them when all they did was peacefully demonstrate for greater respect for Human Rights, Liberty, Equality and Justice.
I am saying that and only that. Nothing more.
Beyond this, talk of people killed and injured etc., by the war is the politics of propaganda.
It's the obscene politics of bodycounts to demonize one's enemy.
Using the dead as propaganda poker chips against one's "political opponent(s)" i.e., enemy.
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:35
#20
Libyans protest against NATO slaughter of civilians.
Hundreds of Libyan citizens marched in a funeral procession in Tripoli on Thursday for civilian victims of Western bombing raids.Nato military officials maintain that no civilians have been killed since France, Britain, the United States, Denmark and Italy kicked off the aerial assault last Saturday
There is no truth to the rumour that the NATO aggressors have targeted the protests with air strikes.
Yet.
Actually, reports from the funeral cast a lot of doubt that the bodies within the coffins were of civilians struck by NATO. The US State Department says it has a real hard time corroberating any reports of civilian casualties. But of course, Gaddafi wouldn't possibly lie to turn public sympathy to his side. He's above THAT. Right?
Right?
Moving on from things that Gaddafi wants reporters to see, to things they really, really don't...
Sun, 2011-03-27 00:49
#21
How many dead Libyan civilians - killed by NATO - is enough? Or is Gadaffi's "bloodthirstyness" the only kind that matters?
Good point.
I am opposed to the U.S., U.N., E.U., NATO and Arab League, etc., military interference in Libya.
I also feel that whatever good Gadhafi achieved in the past and whatever legitimacy he had, he negated and destroyed it when he tore up the "Social Contract" (so to speak) with the Libyan People and started his war against them when all they did was peacefully demonstrate for greater respect for Human Rights, Liberty, Equality and Justice.
I am saying that and only that. Nothing more.
Beyond this, talk of people killed and injured etc., by the war is the politics of propaganda.
It's the obscene politics of bodycounts to demonize one's enemy.
Using the dead as propaganda poker chips against one's "political opponent(s)" i.e., enemy.
Right, right. But obviously all sides on this forum care about whether this intervention was worth it for the Libyan people. 8 to 10 thousand civilians have been killed by Gaddafi forces since the start of the protests, he resorted to placing snipers on rooftops to essentially gun down civilians. I know, Fmrsldr, that you don't support the intervention, but it is worth pointing out that there is a calculus going on here - how many lives can be saved?
The body count over NATO's intervention is widely disputed, but the US State Department says that it doesn't have any evidence that any civilians have been killed in the intervention, and Gaddafi's claims are really, really highly disputable.
US intelligence reports suggest that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces have placed the bodies of people they have killed at the sites of coalition air strikes so they can blame the West for the deaths, US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said in a television interview on Saturday, according to Reuters.
Not that I'm sure many here believe US intelligence.
Also, see the report I posted above about the ... unusual ... nature of the funerals Gaddafi is showcasing to reporters. Everyone there is young males, not mothers or sisters or children. Everyone there is angry and not grieving, One of the coffins is empty.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:02
#22
Libya's uprising was armed and quite possibly relied on some external support. There are witnesses who confirm that the uprising was pre-planned, that groups of youths attacked police and local authorities' buildings in different towns at the same time. But the crucial role was played by the fact Gaddafi secured the support of a large share of the population, especially in the country's capital and in the West. There were no massive protests in Tripoli and the rebellious east has demonstrated the breakaway ambitions of Cyrenaica
Stop.
1) There were protests in Tripoli, and certainly all over the Western part of Libya. Misurata is constested, and before the army really started stepping in, most towns in the west were under control of the protesters.
2) Breakaway ambitions of Cyrenaica? What? Virtually everyone associated with the conflict have stated that they want to live under a united Libya.
3) The protests were simmering for a while, away from the view of the media, while Libya's two neighbours were undergoing revolutions. VIA facebook, twitter and word of mouth, a "day of rage" was scheduled for Feb. 17th, and that's when the shit hit the fan.
4) "Gaddafi has secured the support of a large part of the population". He's secured control of a large part of the country with ground forces. Big difference. Virtually every tribe in Libya outside of his own has abandoned him. At one point, he was basically only holding on to Tripoli, Sirte, and Sabha (which is in the middle of the bloody desert). Opponents don't exactly have the freedom to express themselves in Tripoli.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:15
#23
... But obviously all sides on this forum care about whether this intervention was worth it for the Libyan people.
That's the rhetoric of the military interference.
That's not the reality of the military interference.
The reality of the military interference is regime change and oil.
These victories that the People are winning are tainted by the assistance of Western governments' military interference. They are "dirty" "victories."
IF the People of the U.S.A. and Canada etc., really care about the People of Libya
THEN we will go to Libya, grab a gun and join the Libertaria Revolution.
THEN we will share in the victories and defeats, the joys and sorrows, the adrenaline, the sweat, the fear, the hope, the injuries, the pain, the blood, the suffering, the dying, the aspiration of the Libertarias of Libya and the world.
VIVA LA REVOLUCION DOS LIBERTARIAS!!!!!!
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:24
#24
... He's [Gadhafi] secured control of a large part of the country with ground forces.
At their height, all Gadhafi's forces secured was the Northern coast of Libya, excluding the strategically important cities of Benghazi and Tobruk, with Ajdabiya mostly, but not entirely, under control.
Sun, 2011-03-27 01:40
#25
very tainted, very dirty...
and when you're done there, why not head on over to Afghanistan and fight with those Libertarias too. Some of the Lib-libs can point you in the right direction since according to reports many of them have fought there, and Iraq too - and against the real enemy. As far as Libya goes, best wait a bit until the Western ground troops come. Then you'll really have something worth shooting at...maybe even a canucklhead or two..
Sun, 2011-03-27 02:05
#26
Libya War on Deep Discount Is Still Not A Good Deal - by Rep Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/266-32/5421-kucinich-nato-war-st...
'Even with NATO's support, the war in Libya has the potential to become a quagmire, in part because we entered into this conflict without clear goals. Already, military action has brought the eastern and western parts of Libya to a standoff. Is the goal to divide Libya? Is the goal to remove Muammar Qadaffi? Will we install a friendly regime? What if the country is destabilized to the point that extremist groups such as al-Qaeda are allowed to take root? How does this war end? When will this war end? How much will it cost American taxpayers? What is the impact on our already overstretched military?...
Please join me in cosponsoring an amendment to the next Continuing Resolution that would prevent any US funds from being used for the war on Libya or NATO's role in Libya."
And in this country not one 'representative' asked any of these questions...
Sun, 2011-03-27 03:09
#27
Libyan 'Revolutionaries' Aren't So Revolutionary...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27771.htm
"Ever since the rebel opposition forces have taken control of the cities, there have been reports that have surfaced regarding torture, racial violence and repression. Coming across some recent articles regarding Benghazi, the last rebel stronghold in Libya, I can't say I'm amazed at the police state that they have designed and who is in power..."
Sun, 2011-03-27 03:53
#28
very tainted, very dirty...
and when you're done there, why not head on over to Afghanistan and fight with those Libertarias too. Some of the Lib-libs can point you in the right direction since according to reports many of them have fought there, and Iraq too - and against the real enemy. As far as Libya goes, best wait a bit until the Western ground troops come. Then you'll really have something worth shooting at...maybe even a canucklhead or two..
I'd gladly shoot at any Yanqui or Canucklehead soldier asshole who sets foot on Libyan soil.
The rest of what you say (quoted) is bullshit.
As I've said upthread, just like Iraq, before our governments' war on (Iraq) Libya, there was no Al CIAeda presence in (Iraq) Libya. Now that our governments are waging war on (Iraq) Libya, now there is an Al CIAeda presence in (Iraq) Libya.
Self-fulfilling prophesy. Gee, who would have guessed.
It's also a case of "You'll find whatever it is you're looking for." It's just a question of a little effort.
If what you want to find is an Al CIAeda connection to the Libyan Revolutionaries,
if that's what you're looking for,
then that's what you'll find.
You can't compare Libya with Afghanistan and Iraq.
Afghanistan was a war that was planned by the Pentagon and had the knowledge and blessing of former President Jimmy Carter since the late 1970s.
It's not a Revolution. The insurgents defended/are defending themselves against foreign invaders.
Iraq is similar. What's going on in Iraq is also not a Revolution, it too is a war. The current Iraq war has its origin in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War. In 1990, the Pentagon and former President H.W. Bush came up with the idea of baiting Saddam Hussein into a war with Kuwait. Saddam walked into this trap, and H.W. used the pretext of defending and liberating Kuwait from the "evil" aggressor Iraq for Iraq War I. Leaving Saddam ("it is better to deal with the devil we know than the one we don't." - H.W. Bush) in power allowed former Presidents Clinton and G.W. Bush to "continue the war by 'peaceful' means through sanctions and a no-fly zone. Iraq War I became Iraq War II under the pretext of 9/11 and that Saddam's Iraq was a percieved potential "threat" with its non-existent WMDs.
What is happening in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and Libya are Revolutions. Yemen was a civil war that the U.S. is involved in before the Revolution occurred there. Bahrain is like Libya in that they were Revolutions that are being co-opted by foreign powers waging war on them. In the case of Bahrain, the U.S. proxy Saudi Arabia is the foreign power aggressor.
Were the Pentagon, the (George) Soros Foundation, The National Endowment for Democracy, etc. involved in the countries putting ideas in the Peoples' heads?
Probably. And I'm sure you can come up (and have done so) with all kinds of links that provide evidence of such connections. However, athough such organizations have their connections to the U.S. government - they ARE NOT the U.S. government. Often they act on their own carrying out their own agendas which are not the U.S. government's agenda and without the knowledge of the government.
So although these organizations may have had something to do with the Revolutions, I see no reason to doubt that the Obama administration did not forsee these Revolutions and was taken by surprise by them.
Obama's hesitancy to commit the U.S. to a war on Libya was the realization that there is a Presidential election coming up next year, the American public is war weary and this war could be (is) very unpopular, Republican and Democratic lawmakers could become vocal against Obama's Libya war (which is what is happening.) Hell, some lawmakers are talking about defunding the war and Dennis Kucinich is threatening impeachment.
The Obama administration decided to play the "humanitarian war" gambit. Now they are suffering the consequences. That is why the Obama administration is scrambling to pass this war onto NATO's hands as quickly as possible.
I've said this before. I'll say it again:
When the People peacefully protested, Gadhafi had a CHOICE: He could have had a peaceful dialogue with the People and worked out a solution that would have been agreeable to (almost) all or he could have CHOSEN violent repression.
He CHOSE violent repression. He CHOSE to wage war against the innocent, peaceful, unarmed People of Libya.
I have nothing personal against Gadhafi. But when he CHOSE to tear up the "Social Contract", when he CHOSE to wage war against the People, he lost his legitimacy (and right) to govern. The Revolution started out in the People's right to defend themselves against state violence and grew into the realization that either Gadhafi, fear and repression must triumph or Human Rights, Liberty, Equality, Justice and the Peoples' Revolution must triumph.
The Revolucion is like a great love affair:
In the beginning She is a Goddess, a holy cause.
But every love affair has a terrible enemy - time.
We see Her as She is.
The Revolucion is not a Goddess but a whore.
She was never pure. Never saintly. Never perfect.
So we run away - find another lover, another cause. Quick sordid affairs.
Lust but no love.
Passion but no compassion.
Without love, without a cause - we are nothing!
We stay because we believe.
We leave because we are disillusioned.
We come back because we are lost.
We die because we are committed.
Some of our knowledge is what we KNOW to be true,
Some of our knowledge is what we BELIEVE to be true.
You believe in your conspiracy theories if you want.
I believe in the People of Libya and the Libertaria Revolution.
Viva La Revolucion Libertarias!!!!!!
Sun, 2011-03-27 06:21
#29
Libya 'Revolutionaries' Aren't So Revolutionary
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27771.htm
"Ever since the rebel opposition forces in Libya have taken over control of the cities, there have been reports that have surfaced regarding torture, racial violence and repression. Coming across some recent articles regarding Benghazi, the last rebel stronghold in Libya, I can't say I'm amazed at the police state that they have designed and who is in power...
The Signs Of The Defeat of the Libyan Revolution: Statement Against The UN Sanctioned Air Strikes On Libya - by Soud Salem
http://libcom.org/library/signs-defeat-libyan-revolution
"We condemn this intervention that will transform Libya into a real hell, even more than now. That intervention will also steal the revolution from the Libyans, a revolution that has cost them thousands of dead. An intervention that will also divide the Libyan resistance. And even if these operations do succeed and Qaddafi falls (or dies) like Saddam Hussein, it will mean that we were liberated by Americans and French and I can assure you that they will keep reminding us of that every minute.
How can we stand this later? How can we explain all these casualties to the coming generations, all these dead bodies that will be everywhere? To be liberated from Qaddafi just to become slaves to those that armed him and empowered him during all those years of authoritarian violence and repression.
After the first mistake - the militarization of the popular revolution - here we are committing our second mistake - the establishment of a new leadership of figures arising out of the remnants of the Libyan Jamahjriya regime. And our third mistake is coming inevitably, which will be to ask for help from our enemies. I only hope we shall not reach the fourth one: that is occupation and the arrival of the marines...Colonialist bombs, as you know, have only one objective, to defend the interests of arms traders..
I say this very clearly: this is a very dangerous strategic mistake, one that the Libyan people will pay for, maybe for many years to come. More than the years of the role of Qaddafi and his family. I call on all the peoples to support us.
But as for governments, whatever government, we will not ask for anything from them but to leave us alone, to let us finish the problem of Qaddafi by ourselves.
Soud Salem
anarchist
Sun, 2011-03-27 10:38
#30
M. Spector
The struggle in Libya cannot be analysed except in the context of world and especially US imperialism, as I am sure all will agree. But its also cannot be analysed solely in terms of Libya itself in conjunction with the role of imperialism in that single country.What is the context in which Libya must be placed? Or to put the question another way, [b]could the civil war in Libya and the US military assault have happened four months ago? Of course not.[/b] Neither were even remote possibilities in anyone's mind four months ago.
The context is the great Arab uprising which has taken the world and all of us by surprise. The fundamental thrust of this uprising of millions has unfolded from country to country against military dictators and monarchies. The immediate demands everywhere revolve around democracy and an end to arbitrary police rule with its imprisonment, torture and murder. The rulers in every country the rebellion is directed against were backed by imperialism, with the partial exception of Syria. In the case of Syria, however, the regime's relations with imperialism have been cosy enough that it accepted prisoners under "special rendition", and dutifully tortured them. So even Syria is part of the special relations these countries have with imperialism.
Libya under Gaddafi beginning in the 1990s became part and parcel of this system of imperialist domination. Whatever his anti-imperialism amounted to in his past is just that - the past. He made his deals with European and US imperialism at first through oil and gas, and then sealed the arrangement in 2004 with political cement.
[b]The unfolding of the Arab revolution is thus objectively and increasingly subjectively anti-imperialist.[/b]
[URL=http://links.org.au/node/2231]read more...[/URL]
Sun, 2011-03-27 15:58
#31
President Hugo Chavez Backed by South American Presidents, Condemn the Attack on Libya
http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/6078
"Fidel Castro and Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, Daniel Ortega, President of Nicaragua, Rafael Correa, President of Ecuador, Cristina Ferdinez, President of Argentina - all stand with President Chavez against the US/NATO invasion of Libya, indicating that the western media reports of Libya's military action as an attack on civilians is a lie. Rather their view is that Libya's military action is nothing more or less than a heroic natural defence against a foreign backed insurrection to achieve a coup d'etat to gain control of Libya's petroleum resources..."
The Qaddafi I Know: The Good, The Bad and The West's Ugly Intervention - by Yoweri Mouseveni
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/24/the_qaddafi_I_know?page...
"A dialogue is the correct way forward. The AU mssion was unable to enter Libya because the Western countries started bombing the day before they were supposed to arrive. However the mission will continue.
Regarding the Libyan opposition. I would feel embarrassed to be backed by Western war planes. Quislings of foreign interests have never helped Africa. If the Libyan opposition groups are patriots, they should fight their war by themselves and conduct their affairs by themselves. After all, they captured so much equipment from the Libyan Army, why do they need foreign military support? To be puppets is not good. What if the Libyans loyal to Qaddafi decide to fight on? Who will be responsible for such a protracted war?
It is high time we did more careful thinking.."
Sun, 2011-03-27 16:10
#32
US Shadow Gov and their gladio friends in London WANT a protracted war. It's an invite for more bombing and prolonged warfiteering. Warfiteering over as long as possible is what they do. Vietnam was a huge payoff for the warfiteers just as Iraq and Afghanistan have been for them. It's all about market stability in the warfiteering industry, and looking good on month-to-month balance sheets and quarterly earnings projections for the military-industrial complex. The very token SEC and FBI/RCMP can't accuse them of conspiring to violate world law since Nuremberg. That's a job for a World Court. It's about plausible deniability and all that. No one is anymore guilty than the rotten system they fight tooth and nail to uphold in their favour. Four more wars!
Sun, 2011-03-27 17:37
#33
Depleted Uranium: A Strange Way to Protect Libyan Civilians - by David Wilson
http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/2321/271
"In the first 24 hours of the Libyan attack, US B-2s dropped forty-five 2,000 pound bombs. These massive bombs, along with the Cruise missiles launched from British and French planes and ships, all contain depleted uranium (DU). An impacting DU missile burns at 10,000 degrees C. When it strikes a target, 30% fragments into shrapnel. The remaining 70% vaporises into 3 highly toxic oxides, including uranium oxide. This black dust remains suspended in the air, and according to wind and weather, can travel over great distances. If you think Iraq and Libya are far away, remember that radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales...
Particles less than 5 microns in diameter are easily inhaled and may remain in the lungs or other organs for years. Internalized DU can cause kidney damage, cancers of the lung and bone, skin disorders, neurocognitive disorders, chromosome damage, immune deficiency syndromes and rare kidney and bowel diseses. Pregnant women exposed to DU give birth to infants with genetic defects. Once the dust has vaporised, don't expect the problem to go away soon. As an alpha particle emitter, DU has a half life of 4.5 million years.."
Sun, 2011-03-27 19:01
#34
Pro is a strong word frmr
Under the ideological blinders that you hamper yourself with its a manichean this or that with no variable account of peoples everyday lives, what's happening in libya does not seem fairly revolutionary from a political or economic view point, most people there seem to want what we have right now, something I think sucks, but then again most people still are not revolutionary and people here have not had to go through 42 years of a really fucked up same ol same ol, I can at least put tangeable immediate goals before ideologica abstractions of this camp that camp good and evil, and I'm far more radical then your run of the mill anti-imperialist with all the empty rhetoric
http://www.anarchymag.org/node/28
Sun, 2011-03-27 19:08
#35
EU Observer: Sarkozy Warns Arab Rulers About Libya Precedent - by Andrew Rettman
http://euobserver.com/24/32064
"French President Nicolas Sarkozy has warned Arab rulers that they risk Libya-type interventions if they cross a certain line of violence against their own people. The president told press at an EU summit in Brussels on Thursday (24 March) that UN Security Council resolution 1973 authorising airstrikes on Libya has created a legal and political precedent on 'the responsibility to protect'.
Referring to deadly violence in Syria, he explained: 'Every ruler should understand, and especially every Arab ruler should understand that the reaction of the international community and of Europe will from this moment on each time be the same...He drew a difference between Egypt, Tunisia and even Yemen where dozens have been killed but where the armed forces have begun to defect, versus Libya, where Colonel Gaddafi's tanks and planes have waged open war on rebels.
He suggested that Ivory Coast, where President Laurent Gbagbo's forces recently fired a heavy artillery shell into a market square, will be next in line for UN vote on intervention. He said there is a new post-UNSC 1973 model of 'world governance.' But he added that it can only work if Libya coalition powers 'precisely...rigorously...scrupulously' stick to the UN mandate."
Declaration of intent, Sarkozy - on Europe's Responsibility to Imperialise
Sun, 2011-03-27 20:56
#36
He [French President Nicolas Sarkozy] said there is a new post-UNSC 1973 model of 'world governance.' But he added that it can only work if Libya coalition powers 'precisely...rigorously...scrupulously' stick to the UN mandate."
What a sanctimonious hypocrite.
The U.S., the U.K., France, Canada, etc., have unquestionably, categorically and demonstrably done the opposite of "precisely... rigorously... scrupulously stick to the [1973 Resolution] UN mandate."
OMFG, this is like 9/11 (esp. the September 2001 to March 2003 period) on steroids.
Sun, 2011-03-27 23:05
#37
And let's not forget the Clinton regime and Brits created a militant Islamic base in Bosnia. They hoisted thousands of Qaeda and mujahideen from Afghanistan to Bosnia and okay'd arms shipments from Iran. And their KLA buddies also have extensive links to CIA'da. Ayman Al-Zawahiri ran terrorist training camps, factories for WMD, and managed drug trafficking networks throughout Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Turkey and Bosnia. Al-Zawahiri's training camp for KLA and Al-Qaeda terrorists was in a NATO protected zone near Kosovo. There is no such thing as Qaeda the foreign threat to US National Security. The only threats to US National Security are US nationals working for DoD and CIA. None of it was mentioned in the bipartisan 9/11 Omission cover-up. The crooks and liars are still there in Warshington and London and orchestrating piracy and terrorism against Libya.
Sun, 2011-03-27 23:56
#38
CIA Using Al Qaeda To Topple Arab Leaders
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/03/cia-using-al-qaeda-to-topple-arab....
Feb 28: The Mideast Revolutions and 9-11 Intrigues Crafted in Qatar
http://en.m4.cn/archives/5128.html
"...After letting slip that the earliest Libyan protests were organized by the LIFG, Al Jazeera quickly changed its line to present a heavily filtered account of 'peaceful protests'. To explain away the gunshot deaths of Libyan soldiers during the uprising, the Qatar based network presented a bizarre scenario of 150 dead soldiers in Sirte having been executed by their officers for 'refusing to fight'. The mysterious officers then miraculously vacated their base, disappearing into thin air while surrounded by angry protesters!
Off the record one American intelligence analyst called these media claims an 'absurdity' and suggested instead the obvious - that the soldiers were gunned down in an armed assault by war-hardened returnees from Iraq and Afghanistan. The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, under the leadership of Abual - Laith al-Libi, formally merged into Al Qaeda in 2007. Two years later, Libi disowned armed violence and negotiated with Qadhafi for acceptance of LIFG as an above ground political association.
The sudden rejection of violence coincided with the Muslim Brotherhood's makeover as a democratic force and Qatar's advocacy of political reform across the Mideast. As a legal entity, it incited the first protests in Benghazi in mid February. Within days of the uprising's start however, the LIFG reverted to its old ways, brandishing automatic weapons. What it plans to do with chemical weapons and advanced explosives is anyone's guess, while one psychological point remains clear: The militants are eager to pay back Americans and Europeans for long years of bombing, maiming and torture.
The constant temptation in a partnership of enemies is betrayal. The White House had counted on the protests to nudge Said - al Islam Gadhafi to replace his father in a relatively smooth transition to democracy. The Gadhafi clan, however, united against the threat of an Islamist resurgence. Washington also miscalculated the potential for Al Qaeda elements and Brotherhood acting independently of high-level deals made in Doha.
Possible outcomes - from the collapse of the Gadhafi regime to the partition of Libya - could easily prompt Al Qaeda allies and the militant arm of the Brotherhood to establish the Libya-Egyptian border as the next global training centre for jihadists, now that the Afghan Pakistan tribal regions no longer provide a safe platform for jihad operations. Any US or NATO intervention will only lead to a third front in the endless war.
On this 10th anniversary of 9-11 attacks, Washington is staggering under a huge 'blowback' from an out of control North Africa, self inflicted by its own greed for oil and uranium, fear of declining influence, deceitful ambition and misplaced trust."
Mon, 2011-03-28 00:00
#39
Excellent posts, NDPP and Former Soldier. Thanks!
Mon, 2011-03-28 00:16
#40
The only trouble is,
I'm getting lost in all these Italian-style "mafioso flick" plot twists.
I'm also a little worried that these might be Pentagon Psy Ops and that if the Libyan People believe them, they will drive wedges among the People. The Pentagon will choose the subgroup among the People it likes best to install and prop up as the next puppet government of Libya and thus co-opt the Revolution.
This is my fear.
Mon, 2011-03-28 01:54
#41
New Libyan Rebel Leader Spent Much of Past 20 Years in Suburban Virginia
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/26/2136063/new-libyan-rebel-leader-sp...
"The new leader of Libya's opposition military spent the past two decades in suburban Virginia but felt compelled - even in his late 60s - to return to the battlefield in his homeland, according to people who know him. Khalifa Hifter was once a top military officer for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, but after a disastrous military adventure in Chad in the late 1980s, Hifter switched to teh anti-Gadhafi opposition. In the early 1990s, he moved to suburban Virginia, where he established a life but maintained ties to anti-Gadhafi groups.
Late last week, Hifter was appointed to lead the rebel army, which has been in chaos for weeks. He is the third such leader in less than a month, and rebels interviewed in Libya openly voiced distrust for the most recent leader, Abdel Fatah Younes, who had been at Gadhafi's side until just a month ago. At a mass conference Thursday, the rebel's military spokesman said Younes will stay on as Hifter's chief of staff, and added that the army - such as it is - would need 'weeks' of training..
Since arriving in the US in the early 1990s, Hifter lived in suburban Virginia outside Washington DC. Badr said he was unsure exactly what Hifter did to support himself and that Hifter primarily focused on helping his large family.." [nice and handy to the CIA in Langley]
Many Libyans Appear to Back Gadhafi
http://www.twincities.com/ci_17695927?nclick_check=1
"But at least six days into the allied bombardment of Libyan military targets, it is clear that Gadhafi can count on the fierce loyalties of significant segment of the population in the vast stretches that lie beyond the enclave of rebel-held territory in the east. 'We don't want anyone but him,' said Fatima al-Mishai, 20 who joined the crowds assembled at Gadhafi's Bab al Aziziyah compound to be human shields against the bombs. 'He gave us freedom and everything we need.'
Indeed, the Libyan government has kept average incomes relatively high while doling out generous social benefits, including health care and education.."
Kill Gaddafi: Rumsfeld (and vid)
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/27/rumsfeld-leaving-gaddafi-in-power-...
"Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Sunday that the reputation of the United States would be damaged if Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is allowed to remain in power. Rumsfeld said he agreed with former deputy at the Pentagon Paul Wolfowitz, who said last week, 'If Gaddafi were to survive, it would be very much against American interests..
Gaddafi's Opponents Are Drug Dealers?
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/03/gaddafis-opponents-are-drugs-deale... (and vid0
"With CIA control of North Africa, cocaine can more easily reach Europe.."
Mon, 2011-03-28 02:26
#42
NDPPI'm also a little worried that these might be Pentagon Psy Ops and that if the Libyan People believe them, they will drive wedges among the People. The Pentagon will choose the subgroup among the People it likes best to install and prop up as the next puppet government of Libya and thus co-opt the Revolution.
This is my fear.
I suspect that that it is the mainstream master-narrative of the Libyan 'Arab Spring' that will turn out to have been the psy-ops, along with its rescue via 'humanitarian intervention' by the West. I suspect that Libyans know the score. And it looks to me like they've already picked their 'subgroup' to install and prop up - France has already recognized them as the legitimate government of Libya. This revolution was coopted or concocted some time ago I'd say.
Mon, 2011-03-28 03:31
#43
RT: Why The Libyan Uprising Is Not: 'People Topple Dictator'
http://rt.com/news/libya-gaddafi-opposition-war/
"...With such pressures, any dictator would have been dethroned - if not by his own will, then with the friendly help of cautious subordinates. Yet that's exactly what has not happened. Moreover, noticeably missing in reports from the country are the expected mass defections of government officials, troops and security forces to the opposition. And those voiced often turn out to be false, like that of Gaddafi's daughter Ayesha, allegedly attempting to flee to Malta.
The plain fact is that Colonel Gaddafi has the support of both the public and his own government. This certainly doesn't make him 'the good guy' in the story, but it casts a huge shadown on the whole 'oppressed people gather to oust the hated dictator' scenario..."
Mon, 2011-03-28 10:58
#44
Bec.De.Corbin
Libyan rebels close on key Gadhafi stronghold
Rebel forces on Monday fought their way to the doorstep of Moammar Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte (see map), a key government stronghold guarding the road to the capital Tripoli.
The lightning rebel advance of the past few days, backed by powerful international airstrikes, has restored to the opposition all the territory they lost over the past week and brought them to within 60 miles (100 miles) of this bastion of Gadhafi's power in the center of the country.
"Sirte will not be easy to take," said Gen. Hamdi Hassi, a rebel commander at the small town of Bin Jawwad, just 18 miles (30 kilometers) from the front. "Now because of NATO strikes on (the government's) heavy weapons, we're almost fighting with the same weapons, only we have Grad rockets now and they don't."
This will be the rebels' first attack on a Gadaffi supporting town. If it stands and fights this will be the rebels' first real test of how far they can really go with their "revolt". It is also blocking the rebel advance on the besieged city of Misrata farther up the coastal road.
Gadhafi hometown a major obstacle in rebel advance
Its entrances are reportedly mined; the streets and alleys bristle with armed fighters from Moammar Gadhafi's tribe. This is Sirte, Gadhafi's hometown - the halfway point between the rebel capital and Tripoli and a major obstacle on the opposition's march west.
It will not be easy for rebels to take the Mediterranean coastal city. Gadhafi's tribe is the most powerful in the city of some 150,000, which is guarded by an elite unit led by one of his sons.
Mon, 2011-03-28 11:56
#45
Northern Shoveler
This will be the rebels' first attack on a Gadaffi supporting town. If it stands and fights this will be the rebels' first real test of how far they can really go with their "revolt". It is also blocking the rebel advance on the besieged city of Misrata farther up the coastal road.
Its entrances are reportedly mined; the streets and alleys bristle with armed fighters from Moammar Gadhafi's tribe. This is Sirte, Gadhafi's hometown - the halfway point between the rebel capital and Tripoli and a major obstacle on the opposition's march west.
It will not be easy for rebels to take the Mediterranean coastal city. Gadhafi's tribe is the most powerful in the city of some 150,000, which is guarded by an elite unit led by one of his sons.
So Ghaddafi supporters can be mowed down in the streets because their guy is evil. Air strikes against this city the size of Naniamo or Sudbury or Moncton should soften up the people who support a regime that has given them the highest living standards in the region and make them compliant for their new neo-con rulers
As for his sons leading troops into battle that is in itself a telltale sign of evil. In democratic countries like America its leaders sons would never sully their hands with the military that is for peons. Democratic leaders sons head baseball teams and sit on the boards of oil companies and then rise to the Presidency.
I find your cheerleading for death and destruction nauseating.
Mon, 2011-03-28 12:11
#46
AU Wants to Mediate Ceasefire
http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=62574
"The African Union wants to mediate a ceasefire in Libya. AU commission chairman Jean Ping told the BBC that Africa is being ignored in the trying to find a solution in Libya. He said the AU is opposed to foreign intervention.."
'NATO Terrorizing and Killing Libyans'
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177958.html
"The terror people live in, the fear, the tension is everywhere. And these are civilians who are being terrorized every day.."
Libyan Rebels To Sell Oil To Qatar
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article250029.ece
"A senior Libyan rebel official said Qater had agreed to market crude produced from east Libyan fields that are no longer in the control of Muammar Gaddafi. 'We have contacted the oil company of Qatar and thankfully they agreed to take all the oil that we wish to export and market this oil for us,' Reuters quoted Ali Tarhouni, a rebel official in charge of economic, financial and oil matters, as telling reporters.
Small, energy-rich Qatar became the first Arab nation to begin patrolling a UN backed no-fly zone on Friday...Tarhouni, a US based academic and exile opposition figure, was designated last week by the Benghazi-based national council to steer its financial and oil policy.
He said he saw no serious liquidity problems for the rebels who were well placed in terms of foreign currency reseerves."
Mon, 2011-03-28 12:30
#47
Northern Shoveler
Libyan Rebels To Sell Oil To Qatar
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article250029.ece
Tarhouni, a US-based academic and exile opposition figure, was designated last week by the Benghazi-based national council to steer its financial and oil policy.
He said the rebel leadership had set up an escrow account monitored by auditors that would be used to receive revenue from oil sales.
The rebels also plan to take out loans backed by Libya's sovereign wealth fund, he said.
"We would keep the fund frozen until the entire country is liberated," Tarhouni said. "Instead, what we will do is take loans backed by the sovereign fun.
They haven't even taken control of the country, let alone faced the people in an election and the rebel leader based in America is mortgaging the wealth of the people. All hail the revolution to bring peace and democracy through the IMF and World Bank.
I wonder whether Tarhouni was friends with Karzai before they jumped onto the world stage as embodiments of their respective peoples.
Mon, 2011-03-28 12:52
#48
N.Beltov
A CIA commander for the Libyan rebels.
The Libyan National Council, the Benghazi-based group that speaks for the rebel forces fighting the Gaddafi regime, has appointed a long-time CIA collaborator to head its military operations. The selection of Khalifa Hifter, a former colonel in the Libyan army, was reported by McClatchy Newspapers Thursday and the new military chief was interviewed by a correspondent for ABC News on Sunday night.
He spent much of the past 20 years in suburban Virginia near the CIA HQ in Langley.
Mon, 2011-03-28 14:34
#49
STOP NATO: Updates On Libya War - March 28
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/updates-on-libyan-war-march-28/
Open Letter From Russian Doctors in Libya
http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626283
"...today, there is blatant external aggression by USA and NATO against a sovereign country - Libya. And if anyone doubts this, then we say this obvious fact is well known because it is happening before our eyes. The actions of USA and NATO threaten the lives of not only the citizens of Libya, but us who are on its territory. We are outraged by the barbaric bombing currently carried out by a coalition of US [Canada] and NATO..
Today, 24 march, 2011, NATO aircraft and the US, all night and all morning, bombed a suburb of Tripoli - Tajhuna. Air Defence and Air Force facilities were destroyed back in the first two days of strikes, but today the object of the bombing were barracks of the Libyan army, around which are densely populated residential areas, and next to it - the largest of Libya's Heart Centers.
Civilians and doctors did not assume common residential quarters were about to be destroyed, so none of the residents or hospital patients were evacuated. Bombs and rockets struck residential houses and fell near the hospital. The glass of the Cardiac Center building was broken and in the maternity ward building, a wall collapsed and part of the roof. This resulted in ten miscarriages whereby babies died. The women are in intensive care and doctors are fighting for their lives.
We and our colleagues are working seven days a week to save people. This is a direct consequence of falling bombs and missiles on residential buildings resulting in dozens of deaths and injuries. This large number of killed and wounded is greater than the total of all the riots in Libya. And this is called 'protecting the civilian population'...?
We understand that appealing to the 'international community' to save the people of Libya is useless. Our only hope is Russia that has the right of veto in the UN and specifically its leaders the President and the Prime Minister. We are Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarusian people of various professions, mainly doctors, working in Libya from two to twenty years. During this time, we became well acquainted with the life of the Libyan people, and can state, few citizens of other nations live with the social comforts of the Libyans.
They're entitled to free treatment and their hospitals provide the best medical equipment in the world. Education in Libya is free. Capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars - about 50,000 US dollars. Due to gov't subsidies, the price of cars is much lower than in Europe and affordable by every family...
Those who the Western media for some reason called 'peaceful demonstrators' used weapons and attacked police stations, government agencies and military units, resulting in bloodshed. Those who direct them, pursue a clear objective - to create chaos and establish control over Libya's oil. They misinform the international community to say that the Libyans are struggling against the regime. Tell us who would not like such a regime? If such a regime were in Ukraine or Russia we would not be here working. We see that today in Libya they want to make another Iraq.
We cannot leave Libyans alone in trouble. In addition we understand that when all the foreigners leave, with no one to tell the truth the Americans will arrange a bloodbath here. Our only chance of survival is a solid position by Russia in the Security Council. We hope that you Mr President and you Mr Prime Minister, will not allow American [Canadian] and European fascists of the 21st century, to destroy the freedom loving people of Libya or those who today turn out to be with them.
We therefore urgently request that Russia use its right of veto, the right earned by millions of lives of Soviet people during WWII, to stop this aggression against a soverign state, to seek immediate cessation of US and NATO bombing and to demand the introduction of AU Troops in the conflict zones of Libya. Hands Off Libya!
Citizens of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia
The Embassy of the Russian Federation in Canada
March 23: Statement by AK Lukashevich, Official Representative on the Situation in Libya
"According to the existing reports, during air strikes against Libya, civilian facilities in the cities of Tripoli, Tarkhuna, Maamura and Jmail were attacked. As a result, 48 civilians are reported to have been killed and over 150 wounded. A medical cardiological center was partly destroyed, routes and bridges were also affected. In this regard we are urgently calling upon the relevent states to stop the indiscriminate use of force.
We are firmly based on a stance that it is inadmissable to use the mandate from UNSC 1973 (the endorsement of which was quite a questionable step) for achieving goals explicitly beyond its provisions that only envisaged measures to protect the civil population."
Mon, 2011-03-28 14:38
#50
Bec.De.Corbin
I find your cheerleading for death and destruction nauseating.
Cheerleading? I don't think so, I'm just posting day by day reports and comments on what's happening with the fighting on the ground. Like it or not that combat is a big part of the reality that is going on and shaping the events in Libya right now, I'm sorry you don't like what's happening or you feel it's irrelevant.
You do bring up a good point: what happens when the rebels attack a city that they are not welcomed in... by rights the coalition should stop them by bombing them. That moment of truth is coming up next I suspect, the point where the coalition has to "officially" pick sides and I'll post what happens after it happens, good bad or ugly. I'll leave all the political comments, speculation and arguments to you guys.
Mon, 2011-03-28 15:44
#51
The progress of the war on the ground is important and I appreciate Bec posting these reports very much in assessing the overall situation. I also agree that clearly UNSC resolution 1973, as dodgy as it already was, has been breached. NATO is now bombing hospitals and homes. I also think it's clear which side has been officially picked. This is invasion by/with proxy and regime change not 'Arab spring'.
Loving The Libyan Rebels - by Yoshie Furuhashi
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/furuhashi270311.html
"The multinational empire has come up with a great deal for itself using Libya's own money to finance the Libyan rebels to fight against Libya.."
not to mention financing Sarkozy's election campaign and 'freezing' (stealing) billions in Libyan assets - this is a straight up smash and grab international gangster operation.