Get out and Vote on May 2nd II

theatlanticaparty wrote:

Yes, very good. But blank voting is voting.

Why do you keep stating this falsity long after you have been shown to be promoting a false state of affairs?

Blank voting is NOT voting.

@ theatlanticapart

I do respect your decision to spoil your ballot if you want to.

What I have a problem with is promoting it as an active and positive choice. It is not that at all, IMO,

Generally speaking, I think refusal to engage and try and find a voting alternative (if only to prevent the worst from gaining power) often comes down to snobbery, laziness, or a combination of the two. Frankly, I am not too interested in listening to complaints about a system, however flawed.  from people who make no effort whatsoever to work with it, or change it.

That change is certainly not going to come out of the air.

@ wage zombie (cross-posted)

I hear you, but I am not nearly so optimistic. I think our current prime minister will take power any way he can get it. He certainly didn't have any problem overriding the elected house with his appointed senators. And he had no problem cutting farmers off the Wheat Board voters list. I think he would be happier dispensing with elections altogether if it meant him getting his way.

Plus, to hear him talk he doesn't seem to consider any elected Bloc members to be legitimate representatives in the house of commons. So I guess he doesn't really respect the choice of 1/4 of the Canadian public (by that I mean ALL quebecers who have the choice in front of them).

6079_Smith_W wrote:

@ theatlanticapart

What I have a problem with is promoting it as an active and positive choice. It is not that at all, IMO,

Well it is active, you examine your choices, you go to the polling stations, it is a choice since you are deciding to vote and deciding that all of the choices are unacceptable, and it is positive since you are signalling the need for some progessive thinking about political reform.

If you use your vote to support a status-quo party (PC, L, NDP, G) are you not signalling that you accept the status-quo? You can bet that the establishment want you to troop out and select one of their parties. Arn't you playing into the hands of the reactionaries, those who want to maintain the system? Isn't that regressive?

6079_Smith_W wrote:

@ theatlanticaparty

I am afraid you don't get my meaning. As I have said a few times already I don't have a problem if someone has looked at all the issues and all the parties and CANDIDATES (because the two cannot always be equated) and decides that he or she cannot in good conscience vote for anyone. 

My point is that one should at least make the effort and do the research - every time -  to see if there is a way of using ones vote to some useful purpose

That is not what you seem to be proposing, but rather an outright rejection. Sorry. I think that is lazy and snobbish. Doubly lazy because you seem to just ignore that in most ridings there are some parties and candidates - some independent - on the ballot other than the main parties

And doubly snobbish for making presumptions about how I use my vote, who my candidates are, what the specific issues in my riding are, and who you accuse me of "playing into the hands of" by exercising my vote.

Do what you want, but I don't think you have fully thought this out, and I think you are giving bad advice. I also don't really care what you think about me or about a process you can't  be bothered to take a proper look at.

From a Smith AND a Smithee

A blank ballot can and only be valid to the person deciding to do it.

ZERO validity in the Election Canada's rulebook and ZERO validity in it achieving political recognition.

If blank and spoiled ballots were valid,Canada would not have a government for the past 2 decades.

Why not scribble a random name on your ballot and put an X beside it...It would accomplish just as much as a blank or spoiled ballot.

This is a brain dead strategy and THIS election is not the right time for this futile 'protest'

@ the atlanticaparty

You are already contradicting what you said in post #11. You are not just advising people to make what they feel is the best decision; you are actively campaigning for spoiling ballots as a political tactic and challenging those who do want to use their ballots productively. Bad advice.

What is special about this election is that many young adults cant find jobs, and a lot of despair and poverty in major cities like Toronto. A few years can do a lot of damages to young adults looking for their first career, and a lot of people, caregivers, single mothers, and seniors are living in worsening conditions and all the mental stress and burnout is getting worse everyday and this country is becoming just like America, with long term unemployed/underemployed citizens and people dying a little more everyday because there are no way out of our misery. And what about young people dying in afghanistian? Nowaday, many young Canadians like young Americans, might be looking for a career in the army as a way out, to pay for their tuition and earn a living. Our foreign and drug policy mirrors the one of George W Bush. CBC is becoming CNN. Something got to give, and we might eventually have to build more jails because crime rate will go up. Doesnt anyone see this?

theatlanticaparty wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

ETA - Please explain how spoiled ballots would lead to electoral reform...It hasn't done anything yet.

        I suppose blank and spoiled ballots would also lead to trees made of money,Canadian winters into tropical paradises and solid gold bridges that lead to far away galaxies as well.

       I think some people have been drinking too much tiger blood and huffing 7 gram rocks with Charlie Sheen.

The objective of the Great Canadian Blank Ballot Project is to raise awarness amonsgt the public and the political establishment that Canada is in dire need of political reform. Imagine if blank ballots actually beat some of the candidates in some ridings, that would spark discussion.

Yeah,imagine if blank ballots actually beat some of the candidates in some ridings..Whether or not this ALREADY happens,it doesn't spark discussion or raise any awareness.

So yeah,IMAGINE.

In the meantime I'll imagine winning the lottery.

@ Fidel

People can hardly complain about others speaking for them if they waste that one-day opportunity by saying nothing at all.

And the fact is to get sucked into a campaign that tells you to not engage, and to not do the work of seeing if you can use your vote is just as much letting someone else think and speak for you.

Just doing nothing because someone tells you to is worse actually, because if you don't do that work and due diligence I think you're just sticking your head under the rug.  People might pretending that by not engaging they are not responsible for the outcome, but it is a lie.

No, I think I got it. 

Like I said, if you have actually done the work, every time, vote however you want, or spoil your ballot.

But presesenting spoilage (which is the equivalent of complete failure, IMO) as a positive choice before even doing the work is disingenuous, as is pretending that it sends any kind of message at all.

If you disagree with me on this, fine. My only concern is atlanticaparty trying to convince others that anything productive can come of it.

Other than the fact that it helps Tories win seats, that is..

If you disagree, you might want to listen to The House podcast from this morning. The seat change in some greater toronto seats had nothing to do with a rise in Tory votes; there was none. It was because half a million Liberal voters stayed home. I'm not advising you to vote liberal, of course, but any of those non-voters thought they were accomplishing anything by their inaction they got their answer.

LOL!!

'The significant change this will bring about'..LOL!!!!

The only 'significant change' this will bring about is a Harper majority...Nothing more,nothing less.

This farce..oops,I mean protest ...is tantamount to believing that if you think hard enough the rivers will magically turn to wine...it's like farting in a wind storm..NOBODY but YOU will notice...

Staying home on election day has become a Canadian tradition..Why would this election be any different?

The politicians,the parties and their overlords don't give a fuck if you don't show up.

The war mongering capitalist hordes are COUNTING on you staying home.

Anyway..Stay home,spoil your ballot or scream obscenities to a brick wall..That's your choice and freedom.

But quit trying to spin it as some sort of revolutionary movement that will change politics in Canada or anything else.

It's insulting to those of us who actually have more than a hand full of functioning brain cells.

I'm just kidding Smith.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  There is no "Great Canadian Blank Ballot Project", no matter how he's presenting it.  People are not being accosted in shopping malls and presented with glossy pamphlets outlining a truly radical critique of representative democracy.  They will not build momentum because they will not actually be interacting with strangers face to face.  They are not doing any creative agit prop demonstrations, and they will not score a fluke five minute interview on some news show which they could use as an opportunity to hijack the corporate owned fantasy news station.

All of that, I would be down with.  I'm going to vote myself, for the tiny infinitessimal good that it will do.  Really, it's not your vote that counts, it's the number of votes you can bring in by talking respectfully to people about your ideas, goals, and conclusions.  If someone thinks that by doing that, and injecting critical arguments into the public discourse, that that could be more effective in our quest for real democracy, well I understand where they're coming from.

A plan could be to create stickers that look like rows on ballots, that say NONE OF THE ABOVE, with an X already in.  These stickers could be distributed to people at transit stations, shopping malls, churches, and public place really.  They could have a sleek social website where you could find and meetup with people in your area interested in working on the NONE OF THE ABOVE campaign. They could arrange sponsorship of sticker printing and distribution by independent print shops across the country.  If they did all of that, then maybe, MAYBE, they might then be in a position to inject a critical message into the public discourse.  With about a dozen competent, savvy, and motivated people, with an average of 2 hours per day each, something like that would probably be pretty doable.

That is a plan.  Am I encouraging them by providing a plan?  It doesn't matter.  The people advocating not voting don't have the capacity or the focus to do any of those things, or to organize with others who do.  They are sitting alone at their computer.  Most likely they have a beer or a joint, or something else, in their hands while they're typing away.  This is not political work.

@ wage zombie

Oooops..... sorry shouldn't be doing books and doing my civic duty at the same time, expecially online when I can't see peoples' jerseys.

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Really? 

You have looked at all the platforms of all the parties and candidates running in every riding in Canada? 

You cannot be telling the truth, because some of them haven't been nominated yet. The deadline isn't until April 11.

Of course. As you know there are only four policy platforms in this election.

Artist credit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46760738@N07/4292341871/

I have no doubt that most people here have strong opinions.

Whether they care enough about the electoral process to curb their attitude and check out what candidates and parties have to say before making a blanket condemnation is another question. 

Or whether they care enough about changing the inequities in our electoral system to actually lobby for reform.

You don't change anything  by sulking, doing nothing and hoping someone will notice, do the work for you and hand it to you on a silver platter.

And fooling others into thinking that it is effective is just helping the fellow in the blue sweater, as I see it.

Who thinks atlantica is a bot?

On that note, One of our local NDP candidates came just 200 votes short of unseating the conservative who got in. If anyone thinls games like this accomplish anything other than helping the wrong person get in, I would suggest you are fooling yourself.

Maysie wrote:

Who thinks atlantica is a bot?

I'm not sure if we should be guessing, not when vivisection would settle the matter once and for all,

theatlanticaparty wrote:

‘It's a big game and you ain't in it.' - George Carlin

This comment of yours indicates quite clearly where you are at mentally, and it ain't no where close to believing in democracy. people who believe they have a right to play games with other peoples lives really need to get a good dose of reality.

Quote:

Political reform is THE issue in the election. We want every Canadian to do their duty and vote but since no parties or independent candidates endorse reform the only alternative is the ‘third way', voting a blank ballot. This is perfectly valid and Elections Canada counts and reports these ballots in the same way as ballots for candidates.

This is complete fabrication on your part that has been debunked here time and again, yet you still continue with this falsehood.

Blank ballots are NOT counted they go into the same ignore pile as spoiled ballots do.

rejected ballots are just that, no one cares about them. Period.

I think it's a great idea for Liberal and Tory same old story voters to spoil their ballots. They should do it all the time. Unfortunately this is the wrong internet forum to be advocating this very progressive activism.

Fidel wrote:

I think it's a great idea for Liberal and Tory same old story voters to spoil their ballots. They should do it all the time. Unfortunately this is the wrong internet forum to be advocating this very progressive activism.

Lol!!

Apathy is very progressive?!

PUH-leeze.

@ Rikardo

WTF is any of that supposed to mean? What do you care? And what do you intend to do about it that means anything? I don't know what is worse about that post... the arrogance, or the ignorance. 

(edit)

How many layabout, good-for nothing ignorant couch potatoes do you count in your 40-percent coalition, why do you think it means anything at all? And how is it that you think it is a positive thing, and are advertising the fact? 

Because if you think any significant percentage of that number is the result of political awareness and sending a message I would suggest you are not basing your assumption on any hard evidence.

(and I am being polite and restraining myself by phrasing it that way)