Libya XII

Some updates on the fighting on the ground...

Libyan rebels report gains in Misrata fighting

Quote:

Misrata has been besieged by government forces for nearly two months, with human rights groups estimating hundreds of people killed. Tripoli Street is the site where two Western photojournalists were killed Wednesday as the rebels tried to dislodge the snipers loyal to Gadhafi perched on rooftops.

The street, which stretches from the heart of Misrata to a major highway southwest of the city of 300,000 people, has become a front line for the rebels and Gadhafi's forces.

The rebels took over several buildings along parts of the street, enabling them to cut off supplies to a Gadhafi unit and dozens of rooftop snipers who have terrorized civilians and kept them trapped in their homes, said a doctor who identified himself only as Ayman for fear of retaliation.

"This battle cost us lots of blood and martyrs," the doctor said.

Residents celebrated and chanted "God is great" after the snipers left a battle-scarred insurance building that is the highest point in central Misrata, according to a witness who identified himself only as Sohaib.

"Thanks to God, the snipers fled, leaving nothing behind at the insurance building after they were cut off from supplies - ammunition, food and water - for days," added another resident, Abdel Salam.

He called it "a major victory" because the structure gave the pro-Gadhafi forces a commanding view of the city.

Also rebels take boarder town in western Libya...

Libya rebels seize Tunisia border post

Quote:

Libyan rebels overran a post on the Tunisian border on Thursday, marking their first advance in weeks against Moamer Kadhafi's forces as NATO warned civilians to stand clear of its bombing blitz.

The capture of the Wazin border post was cheered by several hundred rebels who raised the flag of the Libyan monarchy after some 150 to 200 pro-Kadhafi soldiers abandoned their weapons and fled into Tunisia.

A small victory but I don't think they can hold on to that town for very long.

Meanwhile the stalemate continues in the east... Fighters are stuck in Ajdabiya, on the border of eastern and western Libya. They could be there for a while.

Yes, McCain has found a new gang of "freedom fighters" -- it's been a while since Savimbi in Africa and the contras in Central America and the Mujaheddin in Afpak.

BTW, today Ghaddafy began distributing arms to the population, which is organized into self-defence units, in preparation for NATO intervention on the ground. 

A question for y'all:  are other folks out there as sick and tired as I am of the BBC and France-24 propaganda on their so-called News programs?  And how do you find the CBC?  (Caissa:  you cited a CBC report.   Are you finding CBC biased?)

Hoodeet wrote:

BTW, today Ghaddafy began distributing arms to the population, which is organized into self-defence units, in preparation for NATO intervention on the ground. 

Or so he says. That's a double edged sword if there ever was and it could come back to haunt him.

Also I get Link TV so I can get a good dose of alterative news along with MSM news scorces...

Hoodeet wrote:

 

A question for y'all:  are other folks out there as sick and tired as I am of the BBC and France-24 propaganda on their so-called News programs?  And how do you find the CBC?  (Caissa:  you cited a CBC report.   Are you finding CBC biased?)

Hey Hoodeet: Do fish swim? Here's a sample:

Tripoli Key to Topple Gadhafi's Mafia Kingdom  - by Nahlah Ayed

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/04/11/f-vp-nahlah-ayed-libya-tri...

"....So, it is a pressure cooker in Tripoli. Gadhafi, backed by his henchmen, is locked in a standoff against Tripoli's people, and he currently has the upper hand by perpetrating fear, as he has for 42 years...Clearly, his goal is different from that of the allies. His is to secure a ceasefire that would allow him or one of his family members to retain control of the mafia kingdom has has nurtured for the past 4 decades...So, unless Gadhafi leaves of  his own volition which is unlikely, he will undoubtedly be ousted by his own people - helped along by those air strikes. In either case, you can be sure that the hands that will capture or kill  him will be Libyan. The experience in Iraq almost guarantees that.."

up to their usual standards and more I should say eh? Let's see Sun TV/Faux News North top that!

Libya: No Lie Zone Needed  -  by Yohannan Chemerapaly

http://pd.cpim.org/2011/0424_pd/04242011_19.html

"...American officials were aware from the outset that the conflict in Libya was essentially a tribal one and different from the democratic upheavals going on in the other parts of the Arab world. The uprising in Benghazi had started with the hanging of 6 policemen by the rebels. Though command of the Libyan war has been officially passed over from US to NATO, it is Washington that will have the final say. The message to Gaddafi is that he should stop defending himself and allow the NATO backed rebels to march into Tripoli..."

UK Committed For Long Haul In Libya  (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/uk-long-libya-war/

"...A freelance journalist and member of British Civilians for Peace in Libya, Sukant Chandan said his delegation easily got information about civilians casualties in Tripoli by visiting morgues and families of those who has been killed in bombings by NATO forces, while the British jounralists working in the country pretend not to notice such things. Sukan Chandan claimed there have been mass lynchings of black-skinned people going on in Benghazi and all across those parts of eastern Libya controlled by Rebels.."

On the ground this weekend... a sudden withdrawal from Misrata

Libya troops retreat in Misrata, rebels claim victory

Quote:

Rebels in Misrata claimed victory as Libyan government troops retreated from front lines, in what appeared to be a significant setback for Muammar Gaddafi's forces hastened by NATO air strikes.

Misrata, the last large city held by rebels in western Libya, had been under a punishing government siege for nearly two months and hundreds of civilians have died in the fighting.

"We have been told to withdraw. We were told to withdraw yesterday," a government soldier captured by rebels, Khaled Dorman, told Reuters on Saturday from the back of a pickup truck.

He was among 12 wounded soldiers brought by rebels to hospital in Misrata, 200 km (130 miles) east of Tripoli. Blasts and machinegun fire could be heard in the distance.

Another serviceman, asked by a Reuters correspondent if the government had lost control of Misrata, said "yes."

Rebel spokesman Gemal Salem later told Reuters by telephone from Misrata that Gaddafi's forces had left the city but remained outside and would still be in a position to bombard it.

"Misrata is free, the rebels have won. Of Gaddafi's forces, some are killed and others are running away," he said.

 

This could be huge, only time will tell.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/847... side mafia orders hit on Gadhafi[/url] Whole world is a war zone as per Gladio document Field Manual 30-31B

'Gaddafi Plays Game With West' (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176503.html

"United States has launched its first drone attack on Libya as the stalemate continues between forces loyal to ruler Muammar Gaddafi and the Libya revolutionaries - Interview with Lebanese University professor Mohsen Saleh from Beirut. 'The West does not want to help Libyans. I guess they want to help themselves."

Humanitarian Situation Worsens in Libya (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176418.html

Interview with Abayomi Azikiwe, Editor of Pan African Newswire

I will never understand why the Vietnamese released this man.

Artillery fire into city continues
Gadhafi unleashes rocket barrage on rebel city

Quote:

Moammar Gadhafi's forces unleashed a barrage of shells and rockets at Misrata on Sunday in an especially bloody weekend, countering Libyan government claims that the army was holding its fire into the western city.

Despite the barrage, which doctors say killed 32 and wounded dozens in two days, rebels said they drove the last pro-government forces from the center of Libya's third-largest city. Morale among Gadhafi's troops fighting in Misrata has collapsed, with some abandoning their posts, said one captured Libyan soldier.

The battle for Misrata, which has claimed hundreds of lives in the past two months, has become the focal point of Libya's armed rebellion against Gadhafi since fighting elsewhere is deadlocked.

 

Misrata fighting rages on despite Tripoli vow

Quote:

Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim said early on Sunday the army had suspended operations against rebels in Misrata, but not left the city, to enable local tribes to find a peaceful solution.

"The armed forces have not withdrawn from Misrata. They have simply suspended their operations," he told a news conference in Tripoli.

"The tribes are determined to solve the problem within 48 hours... We believe that this battle will be settled peacefully and not militarily," Kaim said.

But Colonel Omar Bani, military spokesman of the rebels' Transitional National Council (TNC), said Kadhafi was "playing a really dirty game" aimed at dividing his opponents.

"It is a trick, they didn't go," Bani said in the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi. "They have stayed a bit out of Tripoli Street but they are preparing themselves to attack again."

Libyan authorities want the conflict to look like a civil war between rival tribes, he argued.

Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, another TNC spokesman, told reporters: "Most of the tribes around the Misrata area are inter-related so they won't fall for that trap."

Some video here; the rebels think this is an attempt to make the fight "tribal".

Video: Al Jazeera report from Misrata

As for  citing certain sources, Crow's Beak, I think it's been pointed out some time ago that because Qatar has a big axe to grind with Libyan petrodollars, Al-Jazeera is one news agency that has shown its open bias in favour of the rebels.  Or have I missed Al-Jazeera stories on casualties from NATO bombings and on the massive dumping of "depleted uranium" (an odious term, btw, since it's a 97% radioactive concoction of uranium, cesium, etc. -- perhaps some progressive scientists can come up with a new name for it)?  If so, forgive my ignorance.

Apparently the AV-8B Harrier cannons could possibly use DU shells. I don't imagine many news reporters will want to be floating around Libya with the chance of being shot up by drones or the odd Luftwaffe attack.

Unionist wrote:

Looks like Herr Harper ten years from now and without his toupee.

Fidel wrote:

Apparently the AV-8B Harrier cannons could possibly use DU shells. I don't imagine many news reporters will want to be floating around Libya with the chance of being shot up by drones or the odd Luftwaffe attack.

Yes it could use DU in its cannon, but the cannon is more for dog fighting than attacking ground targets (not to say it couldn't be used for that). More than likely if it was used to attack armor targets it would be loaded with air to ground missiles; that would be MUCH safer for the aircraft as it could shot the missiles from miles way as compared to having to make a strafing run where it has to get well within small AAA gun range... Some of this is just common sense.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Yes it could use DU in its cannon, but the cannon is more for dog fighting than attacking ground targets (not to say it couldn't be used for that). More than likely if it was used to attack armor targets it would be loaded with air to ground missiles; that would be MUCH safer for the aircraft as it could shot the missiles from miles way as compared to having to make a strafing run where it has to get well within small AAA gun range... Some of this is just common sense.

Unfortunately, your common sense on this issue is 180 degrees wrong.

The A-10 is not a fighter. It is a dedicated ground attack aircraft. It is the modern day equivalent of the "Stuka" (if you know anything about this aircraft.) That 20 or 30 mm gatling gun is for tanks, AFVs and other ground (usually vehicular) targets - just like that of the Cobra or any other attack helicopter. The effectiveness of the 20 and 30 mm rounds are increased by being made of depleted uranium. The A-10 is not a "dog fighter." It would get blasted out of the sky by a fighter. It needs to operate in a theater where local air superiority or dominance has been achieved.

It has extensive armor on its underside and an armor 'bathtub' to protect the pilot. It is loaded up with the gatling gun (as mentioned), and a vast ordnance of bombs and rockets. All of which make it heavy. Its engines (compared to those of fighters) are low in static thrust and are rated for optimal performance at low altitude. All of this means the aircraft is slow (that is why the designers gave it straight wings), operates at low altitudes, has a low rate of climb but a high dive speed. It is heavy and clumsy, it is not fast and manoeuverable and thus cannot protect itself from enemy interceptors through evasion and escape by darting away. Because it is a ground attack aircraft it does not need "stand off" or "Beyond Visual Range" missiles. Such weapons when used against ground targets are not usually fired by aircraft but are usually launched from ships - like the Tomahawk missile. Ground attack aircraft are used either when enemy targets are in civilian areas (cities, towns, villages) or when "hostiles" and "friendlies" are in close order combat and you want to avoid or reduce civilian casualties or casualties among "friendlies." That is why "stand off" air-to-ground missiles are not used by (ground) attack or fighter-attack aircraft.

Frmrsldr wrote:

Unfortunately, your common sense on this issue is 180 degrees wrong.

The A-10 is not a fighter.

I wasn't talking about the A-10 in that post. I was talking about Fidel's post about the British Harrier's cannon.

You are correct about the A-10 stats.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

I wasn't talking about the A-10 in that post. I was talking about Fidel's post about the British Harrier's cannon.

My apologies.

Fidel was talking about the U.S. Marine Corps' McDonnell-Douglas AV-8B Harrier II.

I think the "AV" refers to "Attack Vertical/Very Short Take-Off and Landing."

The AV-8B is also a (ground) attack aircraft like the A-10.

The significant differences the AV-8B has over the A-10 are with its rotating nozzles, the AV-8B is as manoeuverable as a helicopter. So although it can easily outmanoeuver enemy interceptors, it's not a fighter-interceptor. I don't think the AV-8B has armor plating on its underside or the armor "bathtub" for the pilot.

Everything else said about the A-10 is applicable to the AV-8B.

There is a slight difference in the main gun:

The A-10's main gun is (usually) the 30 mm General Dynamics GAU-12/U gatling gun (I'm guessing the "U" stands for "uranium.")

The AV-8B's main gun is the 25 mm General Dynamics GAU-8/U gatling gun.

Both weapons fire depleted uranium rounds because of their armor piercing capabilities, sadly.

Financial Heist Of The Century: Confiscating Libya's Sovereign Wealth Funds

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24479

"...The objective of the war against Libya is not just its oil reserves which are the greatest in Africa and whose extraction costs are among the lowest in the world, nor the natural gas reserves which are estimated at about 1,500 billion cubic meters. In the crosshairs of the 'willing' of 'Operation Unified Protector' there are sovereign wealth funds, - capital that the Libyan state has invested abroad."

LIbya And The Imperial Re-Division of Africa   -  by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24471

"...what the Pentagon and NATO have done is breach international law by intervening on the side of one of the combatting parties in Libya in a civil war that they themselves have encouraged and fuelled. They have not protected civilians, but have lauched a war against the Libyan regime in Tripoli and actively assisted the Benghazi-based Transitional Council in fighting the Libyan military.

The US and NATO are now embroiled in a new war that has the patented characteristics of the wars and invasions of Iraq and the former Yugoslavia."

and even though it is a Canadian General leading the NATO Libya operation all of the various political party appendages play their part and nothing is said - these supportive campaigning political parties, the mainstream media, even a Canadian 'anti-war' movement that promotes and promulgates the voice of the CIA Benghazi Contras at its 'anti-war' demos plays along. The complicity is wall to wall - and so another perfect crime.

And yet, when it is suggested that these disgusting and filthy Canadian politicians that are all complicit in this imperialism and all support our membership in NATO - should NOT be voted for and do NOT represent some of us - the idea is treated with ridicule and furious outrage. Peculiar times. Peculiar people. Peculiar contradictions.

Putin: Who Authorized Gaddafi Hit?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176906.html

"Russian Prime Minister Vladmir Putin has criticized NATO over its military intervention in Libya, saying the West has violated the UN mandate by trying to kill Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi. 'They said they didn't want to kill Gaddafi. Who permitted this? Was there any trial? Who took on the right to execute this man no matter who he is?, Reuters quoted Putin as saying on Tuesday..."

'US At Risk Of War With China, Russia' (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/176960.html

"Washington is all for invading Libya and putting more and more pressure to intervene in Syria because we want to clear China and Russia of the the Mediterranean,' Paul Craig Roberts, former assistant secretary to US Treasury, said in an interview with Press TV from Panama City.."

NATO Observes Easter By Intensifying Bombardment of Libya

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/nato-observes-easter-by-inten...

"The US and its NATO allies have been at war in each of the eleven years of the new century, the new millenium - the longest continuous period of combat in the history of both - with not only no indication of the war cycle ever ending but with every assurance that it is now a permanent state of affairs..'

and with a Canadian General, Charles Bouchard Commanding NATO operations in Libya and no discussion of any of this in the election campaign by any of our war-criminal accomplice politicians. Meanwhile the Canadian anti-war movement supports the CIA Benghazi Contras at their rallies. Good doggies for empire all.

Libya: 'The Price of Freedom'  -  by Joachim Guilliard

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24518

"a collapse like the one in Iraq now threatens the country'

congratulations Canada you're deeply implicated in yet another war crime...

Libyan Kids Blessed British Royals

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177552.html

The Libyan War, American Power and the Decline Of the Petrodollar System  -  by Prof Peter Dale Scott

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24542

"...beneath the professed concern about the safety of Libyan civilians lies a deeper concern that is barely acknowledged: the West's defense of the present petrodollar economy, now in decline.."

'US NATO After Libyan Oil Reserves'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177586.html

"Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast says the US and NATO want to take control of Libya's oil reserves and other natural resources rather than helping its people. His remarks came as the US on Wednesday permitted oil deals with Libyan Transitional National Council. The order, issued by the US Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, will remove legal difficulties pertaining to the ownership of Libya's oil for potential buyers.."

The recent attempted assassnation of MG - the NATO attack which killed his son and grandchildren is also about the 'removal of legal difficulties' from this grotesque transfer of assets from a sovereign head of state to the CIA Benghazi comprador Contra regime.

Libya: Illegalities of 'Humanitarian Intervention'  - by Raphael Tsavkko Garcia

http://www.blogfrommiddleeast.com/?xstart=b&new=77302

"...the notion of 'humanitarian intervention', in itself, is nonsense...the intervention in Libya, even with the backing of the UN, is a comedy of errors and illegality, from all sides and in all directions."

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24547]This "war makes no sense", the Italian govt should "resign", Tripoli bishop says[/url]

Pope Nazinger silent about Luftwaffe attacks on Libya

Removing dictator Moammar Gadhafi is the best way to ensure the safety of Libyan civilians, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Thursday as talks on the country's future got underway in Rome.

"We have made it abundantly clear that the best way to protect civilians is for Gadhafi to cease his ruthless, brutal attack on civilians from the west to the east, to withdraw from the cities that he is sieging and attacking, and to leave power," Clinton said. "This is the outcome we are seeking."

She also said the U.S. is moving to free up some of the more than $30 billion US it has frozen in Libyan assets to support opponents of Gadhafi

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/05/libya-rome-thurs.html