How the NDP frustrates me

And thnx for bringing up yet another crucial issue concerning the democracy gap in Bananada or the gap-canyon in our case... democracy, that is, and not head bananas in the phony majority conservative govmint.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6GItPJphLw]Harper lied[/url] about fixed election dates. 

<a href="http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsSep0508.html">Democracy Watch</a> wrote:

"The Conservatives' claim that their law fixed federal election dates is as false as their claim that the Accountability Act cleaned up the federal government," ... "Instead of fixing the date of the next election, the Conservatives are trying to fix the results of the next election."

"D" Watchers on election rigging Tory style. I guess even phony-baloney majorities are not an easy thing to come by anymore in the frozen Puerto Rico with a few homeless Polar bears and some pipelines running north-south across'a border. "D" is the right's most hated institution long time.

ReeferMadness wrote:

I know that the NDP isn't alone in running placeholder candidates but I'm not familiar with stories from the other parties that are as ludicrous as these.  Are you?

Of course, the media didn't decide to launch into a wave of class-baiting when an assortment of placeholders won for the Conservatives in 1984.  I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that this placeholder is a working class woman elected for the New Democrats while those were mostly corporate placeholders elected for the Conservatives.

Seems to me, RM, that you just want to join in the MSM class-baiting lynch mob.

ReeferMadness wrote:

I'm responding to posts by hyper-partisan NDPers who claim their party is being victimized. 

I don't recall anyone claiming the NDP was being victimized.  As I see it, a working class single mom has been victimized by both the MSM and by a handful of bitter and twisted Liberal hacks.

And you seem quite happy to join the mob.

Perhaps you should ponder who you're siding with here.

Malcolm wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:

I'm responding to posts by hyper-partisan NDPers who claim their party is being victimized. 

 

I don't recall anyone claiming the NDP was being victimized.  As I see it, a working class single mom has been victimized by both the MSM and by a handful of bitter and twisted Liberal hacks.

And you seem quite happy to join the mob.

Perhaps you should ponder who you're siding with here.

I'm not on anybody's side. I don't need to phone party HQ to clear my point of view.

If Brosseau was victimized by anyone it's the bright light inside your party that convinced her to sign up for a campaign that she had no intention of running.  A campaign she wasn't capable of running because she couldn't speak the language.   The bright lights inside your organization couldn't figure out just how ridiculous it would look if the media got hold of it.  And from where I sit, it looks plenty ridiculous. 

Were you that bright light, Malcolm?  Is that why you're getting so upset?

Whatever is in the MSM, whatever the Liberals are doing, has nothing to do with me.  Your party fucked up.  And you got caught.  Deal with it.

Can you at least stop repeating the same three points over and over?  You've said them all already.  Ruth Ellen Brosseau's election is eccentric, but it's not a moral outrage.

And if you're not really obsessed about Ms. Brosseau, why do you keep referencing HER over and over and over?

Can you at least talk about a different candidate for awhile? 

Does it always HAVE to be about Ms. Brosseau?  And it's silly to act as if the party should apologize for her nomination.  The voters were ok with her.  Why isn't that enough until the NEXT election?

Are you just going to keep going on and on about this until everyone agrees with you?  You know that's not going to happen, so why bother belaboring this anymore?

Isn't it possible that the voters simply put principle BEFORE the relatively meaningless question of personality?  After all, few MP's are actually elected primarily on their individual merits, and most win because of the voters' feelings about the positions held by the parties those candidates stand for.

When you argue(as you essentially have)that the will of the voters in this riding simply doesn't matter, aren't you taking an essentially anti-democratic position?

My interpretation of that is that, while it is usual for a candidate to win under such circumstances, such things happen sometimes when there is an unexpected swing to a particular party.  What was the NDP supposed to do...simply not nominate candidates in the ridings where they didn't have riding associations?  That would have left no place else for people who wanted to vote for that party's values to go.  They had no home with the Bloc(since all the people who were turning away from the Bloc wouldn't have just gone back to it), none with the Liberals or Tories, and certainly none with the Greens.  This usual situation produced an unusual result.

(Question: Is Ms. Brosseau's riding the one YOU wished to contest, pegagus?  If that were the case, it would only be fair for you to disclose that information at this point in the discussion.)

It is as if the NDP is being asked to apologize for not leaving this riding uncontested. 

Unless the MP-elect in question were to have turned out to be an axe murderer or a Balkan war criminal, such a demand is never appropriate.

Next time, they will have a riding association in Berthier and stronger ones throughout Quebec.  If this candidate has turned out to be unfit for the task(which isn't likely)she'll be removed and someone else will be nominated.

And the intemperate posts of another participant in this discussion have actually somewhat sabotaged a valid point he was trying to make, a point I could actually agree with...in future elections, there should be at least consideration of a residency requirement for any candidates seeking to contest a riding. 

BT, it's Brosseau, not "Brousseaut".  It really looks like your misspelling of her name was intentional disrespect. 

I hope you'll agree that this particular candidate has been hounded enough and that she should be taken off of the hot seat at this point.

pegasus wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

My interpretation of that is that, while it is usual for a candidate to win under such circumstances, such things happen sometimes when there is an unexpected swing to a particular party.  What was the NDP supposed to do...simply not nominate candidates in the ridings where they didn't have riding associations?  That would have left no place else for people who wanted to vote for that party's values to go.  They had no home with the Bloc(since all the people who were turning away from the Bloc wouldn't have just gone back to it), none with the Liberals or Tories, and certainly none with the Greens.  This usual situation produced an unusual result.

(Question: Is Ms. Brosseau's riding the one YOU wished to contest, pegagus?  If that were the case, it would only be fair for you to disclose that information at this point in the discussion.)

It is as if the NDP is being asked to apologize for not leaving this riding uncontested. 

Unless the MP-elect in question were to have turned out to be an axe murderer or a Balkan war criminal, such a demand is never appropriate.

Next time, they will have a riding association in Berthier and stronger ones throughout Quebec.  If this candidate has turned out to be unfit for the task(which isn't likely)she'll be removed and someone else will be nominated.

And the intemperate posts of another participant in this discussion have actually somewhat sabotaged a valid point he was trying to make, a point I could actually agree with...in future elections, there should be at least consideration of a residency requirement for any candidates seeking to contest a riding. 

 

BT, it's Brosseau, not "Brousseaut".  It really looks like your misspelling of her name was intentional disrespect. 

I hope you'll agree that this particular candidate has been hounded enough and that she should be taken off of the hot seat at this point.

You avoided the question. There were obvious NDP activists in Brosseau's riding. Why were none of them chosen to run in that riding by Mr. Layton?

I didn't avoid the question...it's simply a question I personally have no way to answer.  If the NDP activists in the riding had had any problem with Ms. Brosseau's nomination, wouldn't they have been heard from in the early stages of the campaign?  NDP types don't tend to keep silent about things like that.

pegasus wrote:

What bothers me is that Brousseau did no work in her riding that she represented. She didn't have to move to this riding, nor visit. I have done quite a bit of work for the NDP and now I plan to move to a riding where the NDP is not represented in the House of Commons and do all the work necessary to try to become a candidate. But what I fear is another Berthier-Maskinonge, where I'm sure there were NDP activists, Ms. Bousseau had to get her list of names from someone going door-to-door, but none of those activists were chosen to run by Mr. Layton.

I pretty much guarantee that the non-incumbant  NDP nominations in Quebec will all be hotly contested now. (perhaps some incumbent ones too) If you really want it go for it, but it definitely won't be easy and you will have to sign up a bunch of people. 

pegasus wrote:

Do you have any proof of this? Were they asked? Why would they not run if they were obviously willing to do the footwork to collect signatures? After that, in hindsight, they wouldn't have to do anything else.

Troll.

pegasus wrote:

babbler 8 wrote:

pegasus wrote:

You avoided the question. There were obvious NDP activists in Brosseau's riding. Why were none of them chosen to run in that riding by Mr. Layton?

 

Are you sure there were? I'm not convinced, and if there were ones that were suitable candidates I doubt they were wiiling to run. 

Do you have any proof of this? Were they asked? Why would they not run if they were obviously willing to do the footwork to collect signatures? After that, in hindsight, they wouldn't have to do anything else.

Um, I was asking you to back up your claim. You are the one making statements of 'fact' without proof, I'm simply doubting what you say based on my experience in the NDP. The party only ever appoints candidates when there isn't a local organization capable of doing a proper candidate search and nomination meeting. In all likelyhood the signatures were collected by the same paid organizers in several different ridings. I don't believe there is a requirement for the people collecting the signatures to live in the riding. 

pegasus wrote:

babbler 8 wrote:

 

Um, I was asking you to back up your claim. You are the one making statements of 'fact' without proof, I'm simply doubting what you say based on my experience in the NDP. The party only ever appoints candidates when there isn't a local organization capable of doing a proper candidate search and nomination meeting. In all likelyhood the signatures were collected by the same paid organizers in several different ridings. I don't believe there is a requirement for the people collecting the signatures to live in the riding. 

My proof it that there were physical, real people, collecting signatures for the NDP. You have guesses.

You have proof of nothing and your story is not credible or consistent with the experiences of actual NDP activists. You are the one making accusations, so the burden of proof is on you. You must take us for incredible fools to believe anything you have to say.

pegasus wrote:

David Young wrote:

pegasus, are you prepared to personally meet with NDP officials with documentation of your claims?

::hesitantly:: Yes

David Young wrote:

Do you still have the papers with the signatures?

::emphatically:: Yes.

Well go do it then.  This is nonsense.  Lock the thread

pegasus wrote:

You avoided the question. There were obvious NDP activists in Brosseau's riding. Why were none of them chosen to run in that riding by Mr. Layton?

Did they apply?  If there were "activists" in this riding then why was there no riding association?  All you need is enough members who are willing to do the grassroots level work.  Riding associations nominate candidates not the central campaign.  If this obvious group had actually been NDP activists they would have founded a riding association and nominated a local.  I think your talking though your hat but I am willing to be convinced.  Please show me the "obvious" proof of the people in this riding that you are referring too.   

While it might seem like a good idea to require riding residency that in practice is unworkable.  Does anyone think Jack is illegitimate because he does not live in his riding?  How about Kennedy Stewart the Vancouver resident that won in Burnaby?  

I think that the NDP members in Quebec needs to build their party structure. Members need to do the committee work to get riding associations up and running.  Without those grassroots associations the central party has all the power.  The NDP out West has a long tradition of strong willed riding associations who successfully resist the Ottawa control freaks.  I look forward to Quebec members creating a similar tradition.

Ugh, hate that guy only a little less than John Baird. He's the current MP for my parents' riding.

Post #141. Can someone invoke closure in honour of the Conservative majority?

Quote:

 there should be at least consideration of a residency requirement for any candidates seeking to contest a riding.

That could make it difficult for Jack who doesn't live in the riding he represents. 

Quote:

The NDP does a vetting purity process.  If you don't know what the party stands for or you are not willing to state you will unequivocally advocate for the party platform heading into an election you don't get a nomination.  

p.s. - He was allowed to contest the candidacy for a provincial by-election (which he lost) but was vetoed at the federal level.