Socialist Party Ontario Conference this weekend/social on Friday with Joe Higgins

27 posts / 0 new

Fri, 2011-05-27 12:34

aka Mycroft

Sisters and Brothers,

The Socialist Party of Ontario has its founding/organising convention this Saturday at the Bond Place Hotel, 65 Dundas Street East and there is also a social on Friday evening starting at 7 pm in the back room of the Imperial Pub across the street at 54 Dundas Street East ($5 donation requested) . Our special guest will be Irish socialist MP Joe Higgins who will be making a few brief comments at the social and the keynote address at the convention.

The link below is to the agenda for the convention this Saturday, May 28th.

Please note that people are welcome all during the day. You need not register at the start of the day to attend. If you are late, or can only attend for specific parts of the day, that is fine.

Members with full voting rights can attend for free (suggested annual donation $25). To become a member, if you have not already registered as one, one need only state one's intent to be a member at registration on the day itself. There is no obstacle to becoming a member if you are already a member of another party or political grouping. In fact, as a non-sectarian leftist party we welcome all leftists. Observers are also welcome (suggested donation $35),

http://www.thegingerproject.org/2011/05/agenda-for-convention-may-28th.html

Many new resolutions have come in over the last few days, as well as some proposed amendments.

These can be found here:

http://www.thegingerproject.org/2011/05/all-resolutions-proposed-to-date...

The constitution to be voted on can be found here:

http://www.thegingerproject.org/2011/05/democratic-socialist-constitutio...

The positions available to all party members on Executive can be found here:

http://www.thegingerproject.org/2011/05/offices-open-for-election-at-con...

If you have any questions, amendments, comments, resolutions or need more information please email us at [email protected]

In Solidarity.

The Ginger Project/Socialist Party conference organising committee

Issues Pages:

Politics in Canada

Regions:

Fri, 2011-05-27 12:49

Caissa

Is membership open to people residing in other provinces?

Fri, 2011-05-27 13:22

epaulo13

...break a leg!!!

Fri, 2011-05-27 19:40

knownothing knownothing's picture

Giver eh!

Sun, 2011-05-29 22:26

Uncle John

If the Socialist Party of Ontario splits off NDP votes on Oct. 6, will that benefit McGuinty or Hudak?

Sun, 2011-05-29 22:59

Lord Palmerston

The question of where they will run candidates is still up for debate.

Sun, 2011-05-29 23:40

Uncle John

I dont know about now, but we needed 25,000 signatures to start up a party in Ontario in 1981. I seem to remember it was much harder provincially than federally.

Mon, 2011-05-30 11:36

Stockholm

Press of coverage of the formation of this new "groupuscule" has been non-existent. Are you sure that this conference actually happened?

Mon, 2011-05-30 11:41

Stockholm

Uncle John wrote:

If the Socialist Party of Ontario splits off NDP votes on Oct. 6, will that benefit McGuinty or Hudak?

These sorts of new parties to the left of whatever is the mainstream social democratic party seem to always be total failures. In the UK in the mid00s - there was potentially a gigantic vacuum on the left in the UK - the Labour party was "Blairite" and had even gotten into the Iraq War and done all kinds of other things as a government to get people riled and yet leftwing offshoots to labour collective got about 1% of the vote. The biggest claim to fame was electing George Galloway - and that was at the height of the Iraq War. Now he's gone.

If the Socialist Workers party in the UK failed to get the slightest traction against Labour under Blair at the height of the Iraq War - I'm not sure how the Socialist party is going to make the case that we need a province wide protest against the rightwing tendencies (sic.) of Andrea Horwath.

Mon, 2011-05-30 13:13

#10

Snert

But you're talking about electoral success. What if they're perfectly content with electoral failure?

Mon, 2011-05-30 23:16

#11

Jacob Richter

Stockholm wrote:
These sorts of new parties to the left of whatever is the mainstream social democratic party seem to always be total failures. In the UK in the mid00s - there was potentially a gigantic vacuum on the left in the UK - the Labour party was "Blairite" and had even gotten into the Iraq War and done all kinds of other things as a government to get people riled and yet leftwing offshoots to labour collective got about 1% of the vote. The biggest claim to fame was electing George Galloway - and that was at the height of the Iraq War. Now he's gone.

If the Socialist Workers party in the UK failed to get the slightest traction against Labour under Blair at the height of the Iraq War - I'm not sure how the Socialist party is going to make the case that we need a province wide protest against the rightwing tendencies (sic.) of Andrea Horwath.

The likes of Die Linke, the PSUV, the MAS, the Bulgarian CP, parties to the left of the Portuguese Social-Democrats and Socialists, etc. have been much more successful. Regionally there's Quebec Solidaire. So far this thread has seen the participation of two ignorant Blairites, yourself included.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the terminal decline of what's left of social democracy, bleeding votes to the populist right and the populist left, with the former stealing social-democratic planks here and there.

Mon, 2011-05-30 23:27

#12

Ken Burch

The best way to stop people forming parties to the NDP's left is to make sure the NDP STAYS on the left.

Not rocket science.

And even if left-of-the-major left party people in some places don't succeed in getting alternatives going(in the UK as well as Canada, the main cause of that is the anti-democratic electoral system both countries have)there is still the equally destructive phenomenon of people who identify as left-wing simply giving up on politics at all. That always ends up biting the "respectable" center-left parties in the ass just as badly as a left alternative party would.

People who vote for a party have the right to expect that that party will never leave them totally out in the cold and not completely disrespect what they stand for. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown forgot that. The Labor Party in Australia and the French Socialist Party AND the SPD in Germany also forgot it. And look what happened in all those cases.

There is nothing in the mythical "center" that's worth demoralizing and marginalizing the most loyal supporters of the left to obtain.

Mon, 2011-05-30 23:28

#13

Ken Burch

If I were going to be anywhere near that convention, I'd want to hear Joe Higgins speak. I've always admired his role as the socialist conscience of Irish politics. Will non-party members be permitted to attend Higgins' address?

Tue, 2011-05-31 12:28

#14

Stockholm

Jacob Richter wrote:

The likes of Die Linke, the PSUV, the MAS, the Bulgarian CP, parties to the left of the Portuguese Social-Democrats and Socialists, etc. have been much more successful. Regionally there's Quebec Solidaire. So far this thread has seen the participation of two ignorant Blairites, yourself included.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the terminal decline of what's left of social democracy, bleeding votes to the populist right and the populist left, with the former stealing social-democratic planks here and there.

These are mostly parties that get low-single digit support - even in system of proportional representation where there is no possibility of "wasted votes". Die Linke is dying a slow death and is really just a regional party for people in eastern Germany who are ex-Stasi agents nostalgic for the Berlin Wall. The far left parties in France are stuck in low single digits and going no where. There is nothing in Australia that is to the left of the ALP. In New Zealand they have PR - yet the party to the left of the NZ Labour Party got less than 1% of the vote in the last election.

If "social democracy" is in such terminal decline - I guess we didn't get the message here in canada what with the NDP winning 31% of the vote nationally - compared to 0.0001% for the assorted Communist parties.

Back in the 1970s when the "Waffle" movement was expelled from the NDP - they also formed a new party called Movement for an Independent Socialist Canada (acronym = MISC as in miscellaneous!) - they ended up running half a dozen candidates in the 1974 federal election each got about 1% of the vote and then they quickly folded.

Tue, 2011-05-31 12:46

#15

Caissa

The CCF/NDP have a great track record of fighting the Left going back to their battles with CPC unions.

Tue, 2011-05-31 13:00

#16

Stockholm

Good thing they did too! Those CPC affiliated unions in the 50s were apologists for Stalin and spent most of their time trying to sabotage the CCF by getting people to vote Liberal (Stalin didn't like anything "socialist" that he couldn't control)

Tue, 2011-05-31 13:10

#17

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Stockholm wrote:

Die Linke is dying a slow death and is really just a regional party for people in eastern Germany who are ex-Stasi agents nostalgic for the Berlin Wall.

Wow got a link supporting this road apple?

Your grandiloquence is highly amusing however.

Tue, 2011-05-31 20:44

#18

Uncle John

Nice to see centrists using the Stalinist bludgeon.

Quite popular these days!

Tue, 2011-05-31 21:21

#19

Jacob Richter

Northern Shoveler wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

Die Linke is dying a slow death and is really just a regional party for people in eastern Germany who are ex-Stasi agents nostalgic for the Berlin Wall.

Wow got a link supporting this road apple?

Your grandiloquence is highly amusing however.

No kidding. Die Linke is making regional inroads into the western states without having to participate in scabby coalition governments.

Tue, 2011-05-31 22:33

#20

Stockholm

Die Linke is losing ground in western Germany and has fallen short of the 5% threshold in several western states. Now that the Green Party is taking off as a leftwing protest party - why would anyone in western Germany want to throw away their vote on a regional east German party whose sole "raison d'etre" is nostalgia for Erich Honecker?

Tue, 2011-05-31 22:35

#21

Stockholm

Uncle John wrote:

Nice to see centrists using the Stalinist bludgeon.

Quite popular these days!

Its perfectly accurate to use the term "Stalinist" when referring to the 40s and early 50s when Stalin was alive and had absolute totalitarian control over all Communist parties and groupings in the world outside of Yugoslavia.

Tue, 2011-05-31 22:43

#22

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Stockholm wrote:

Its perfectly accurate to use the term "Stalinist" when referring to the 40s and early 50s when Stalin was alive and had absolute totalitarian control over all Communist parties and groupings in the world outside of Yugoslavia.

LMAO

A cold war nugget to go with the road apple.

I love the understatement of your posts. So moderate and reasonable.

Perfectly accurate

Absolute totalitarian control

Tue, 2011-05-31 22:53

#23

N.Beltov

Good luck with your Socialist Party of Ontario, aka Mycroft. And, btw, when babbler Stockholm urinates on an idea, then it's almost certain to be a good one. lol.

Wed, 2011-06-01 00:15

#24

Ken Burch

Stockholm wrote:

Die Linke is losing ground in western Germany and has fallen short of the 5% threshold in several western states. Now that the Green Party is taking off as a leftwing protest party - why would anyone in western Germany want to throw away their vote on a regional east German party whose sole "raison d'etre" is nostalgia for Erich Honecker?

There is a hell of a lot more to Die Linke than that. There are democratic socialist and even libertarian left currents within it that far outweigh the tiny group of people who may be nostalgic for the old days.

Die Linke, unlike the Greens, has spoken out against globalization and is opposed to selling out to the banks on the social wage and on wages and conditions for workers(the Greens don't care about those last two issues at all, not having significant working-class support).

It also includes a lot of left activists from the western states(there are hardly any genuine leftists in the SPD anymore, if there are any at all) and is the only party with a clear and unambiguous antimilitarist program.

Without Die Linke, German politics would be totally yuppified and the poor and those who were screwed-over in the post-1989 transition would have no voice at all.

There's really no reason to go on about what happened before 1989 as a rationale to hate Die Linke. Do they have to expel anybody who doesn't think the DDR was totally evil in order to satisfy you? Is there really any reason at all, at this late date, to keep the feud between "social democrats" and "communists"(assuming Die Linke can even be called communist)going?

The main reason the Greens have done better in the last few state elections(although Die Linke really hasn't done badly, falling below the 5% threshold only in the most right-wing areas of Germany) is that the Greens, who have moved right on a lot of other issues, have been stronger on the nuclear power issue and other environmental questions-and Die Linke does need to shore up its position there.

But other than that, Stock, it's absurd for you to try to keep the Cold War flames fanning-hardline "anticommunism"(as opposed to just being anti-Stalinist)hasn't ever really helped the social democratic left, and the Social Democrats in Sweden, the state whose social model your posting name is meant to celebrate, hardlyt ever redbaited-instead, they did the sane thing and stayed out of the Cold War entirely.

Also, it's insulting for you to insinuate, as you appear to be doing, that anyone to the left of your notion of the "mainstream" is a Communist. That's right-wing talk and you should be better than that. It leads to the most dreary strand of social democratic thinking-the strand that is so obsessed with proving that it's not "communist" that it becomes more right-wing than the bourgeois party on some things-like Mitterrand and Helmut Schmidt were when they held power in their respective countries.

Wed, 2011-06-01 17:05

#25

Uncle John

Even the Communist Party is not revolutionary any more and is only a tiny bit to the left of the Social Democrats. In Bengal, they just got rid of a Communist government for being neoliberal, and we all know how degenerated the worker's state in China has become.

Wed, 2011-06-01 17:10

#26

Ken Burch

Good point, Uncle...although, God help us, you've probably just accidentally restarted the "degererated workers state" vs "state capitalist" shouting match some people used to have going here for years and years. You'll need to buy us all several stiff drinks to help get through THAT one again.

Wed, 2011-06-01 20:21

#27

Uncle John

Well I will be happy to buy you all some stiff drinks.. Having beer with progressives is what I call "Raising Socialist Consciousness by Socializing with Socialists".

By the way that State Capitalist argument is still raging on in websites deep in the Lefts.

The problem with that theory, it seems, is if I have a choice between State Capitalism and Real Capitalism, I might as well go for the real thing. Enter Margaret Thatcher after especially hard Cliffist SWP UK campaigning in the late '70s. Cause and effect, however, can never be proved. Ironic coincidence for sure.

One could reasonably argue an Afghan SSR would have had better outcomes in terms of child mortality & womens issues, as the USSR did after 1917. But it is still a what-would-happen-if, and I really don't have much time for those. Had my grandmother an Adam's apple, etc. The fact that these so called workers vanguards have split over the interpretation of history means they have had way too much time on their hands. They are not really engaging in consciousness raising in the working population on the basic concepts all the left does agree on. Which needs to be done. The fact is, the Tories are better at organizing in the working class right now. Which is why they won.

My take on the Russian Question is that for the working people in the West, the perception of the West was more important than the reality of what the Soviet Union had technically become by whiter-than-white Marxist analysis. As far as the Western Right was concerned, Russia was Communist until the day it died, and the presence of the USSR was helpful to the working people in the West from about 1917 to about 1980 when the Americans knew they had the USSR financially and militarily beaten. We had huge dollops of progressive conservatism/social liberalism in the form of infrastructure, education, welfare, healthcare, and rising wages, a strong union movement and that sustained an almost uninterrupted economic boom for 30 years. This sustained boom is unexplainable to some on the left, however even in a capitalist economy government spending is added to GDP, and with more money in the system you get a multiplier effect in the private sector for each infrastructure and social service job, not only because of the money they are paid, but because of the work they do. If the Marxist thesis is that bourgeois government helps capitalism work, why are these Marxists surprised when bourgeois government helps capitalism work?

The boss classes in the West still feared the USSR, although some like Armand Hammer knew there was big money to be made dealing with the bureaucrats. Even as many more have made big money with the bureaucrats in China, there is still a strong element of fear in the West about "Chinese Communism", State Capitalist, degenerated/deformed Workers State or WHATEVER. The fear is what is important. Not the ideology.

One of the big problems on this part of the left is that there is too much of a leadership complex, and that ideas and tendencies are attached to their originators in a demagoguic and cultish way. Scientological lefts, I like to call them. The Conservative Party is a deformed Progressive Conservative Party...