The USA Manufactured the Arab Spring II

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Tue, 2011-06-21 17:45

notaradical

Linked from the original thread here, which was closed for unknown reasons.

The point was raised that it is seemingly illogical for the CIA or their ilk to instigate popular revolution, reason being that its course would be difficult to control. I challenge that notion. To use a narrative from my own story, I draw a parallel to the "People Power" or EDSA Revolutions of 1986 in the Philippines that ousted dictator Ferdinand Marcos.

The revolution, which involved the Community Party of the Philippines, the labour movement, military defectors, and many elite landowners, is usually taken for granted as the culmination of a long struggle against a brutal despot. What isn't acknowledged is the tremendous logistical endeavour undertaken by the CIA to position its chess pieces just so, the result being that a rich landowner with no business leading a country, who did not represent the people by any stretch of the imagination, was installed as the next president.

The CIA was accutely aware of the growing popular disgust with Marcos. They hatched a plan to subvert any possible bottom-up movement by launching their own facsimile. From the book "The Marcos Legacy Revisited", with an excerpt linked here:

Quote:

Brandon Foley...a political officer (another term for CIA agents at that time) of the U.S. Embassy...he disclosed to me that there was a secret operation plan to oust Marcos, and that men like Jose Concepcion of RFM and the Ayalas were being used as conduits to access the smooth flow of funds to finally bring an end to the Marcos authoritarian government.

Quote:

Jim likewise mentioned the involvement of Cardinal Jaime Sin, whose role was to draw a large crowd of supporters and sympathizers in the event that a blocking force was needed.
...
He was ably assisted by a former executive of the World Council of Churches, Jovito Salonga. Salonga was brought back to the Philippines under escort of the U.S. State Department.
...
In Coleman's estimation, Salonga was to take Mrs. Aquino and this Protestant ‘will cut a deal with the Marxist New People's Army (NPA).' Although this did not materialize because of Salonga's poor health, Coleman was still partly correct. Another fellow Protestant filled in his shoes (Fidel V. Ramos) and has quite successfully negotiated peace with the Communists!

There is additional information in that excerpt into why exactly the CIA wanted to depose Marcos. He was champing at the bit. There is evidence to suggest that Mubarak exhibited the same behaviour, which can be read in these Egypt Wikileaks cables.

It was wrongfully stated in the previous thread that I am a racist. A tablet of skepticism should follow everything we digest and these revolutions in N. Africa/Middle East should be no exception.

The CIA can and will instigate popular revolution as they see fit. In the above example, the goal was to install a puppet president. The Philippines today is probably the most impoverished nation of Southeast Asia and never became white tiger. The seeds were planted long before Marcos, but the plant changed its appearance under Corazon Aquino.

Is it farfetched to assume that if El Baradei becomes leader of Egypt, that he won't be another Aquino?

Tue, 2011-06-21 17:46

notaradical

Correction: Second paragraph, first sentence, should read "Communist", not "Community".

Tue, 2011-06-21 18:33

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

First the other thread was closed because it reached 100+ posts...

Second I don't care who leads Egypt or where ever as long as he (or she) has to worry about getting re-elected in the next constitutionally ordered election. That's the whole problem in the Mid-East and else where... Most all the leaders there don't have to worry about facing an election every so often to stay in power. This has be going on for decades and people are tired of it to the point to where we are now seeing action on their part. They started it, not the CIA. You over rate them and belittle the people who are really sacrificing their lives over this. I support them and wish them well.

I really wish we can get some people from those counties to chime in here... I'd listen to them before I'd listen to you.

Tue, 2011-06-21 19:52

Uncle John

Well, the USA was founded in revolution. The Americans are going to know how it works. I have read FDTD, and they take some care to say this does not apply to unions, economic democracy or industrial democracy. However I think it could. Are the people going to want to let free markets and capitalism develop for a while, and then implement industrial democracy afterwards, or try to do it all at once? Definitely, if democratic political reforms do not happen we will know the whole thing is a neoliberal sham, and the people will have to keep fighting. Ultimately, outcomes on literacy, child mortality, emancipation of women, etc. are going to tell us what kind of "revolution" it is, and whether it worked...

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:02

Fidel

Thanx Bec. And we've posted what some people in those countries are saying today about the "Arab Spring."

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:07

MegB

The original thread was closed because it was espousing ideas, without any valid proof, that the Arab Spring was a manipulation of Imperialist forces. Completely disavowing the incredible sacrifices of people who have protested, under threat of violent death, this conspiracy theory represents the kind of thought that can only be attributed to an arrogant cultural group that cannot conceive that people other than themselves can successfully revolt against their government.

That clear enough?

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:25

notaradical

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

First the other thread was closed because it reached 100+ posts...

Second I don't care who leads Egypt or where ever as long as he (or she) has to worry about getting re-elected in the next constitutionally ordered election. That's the whole problem in the Mid-East and else where... Most all the leaders there don't have to worry about facing an election every so often to stay in power. This has be going on for decades and people are tired of it to the point to where we are now seeing action on their part. They started it, not the CIA. You over rate them and belittle the people who are really sacrificing their lives over this. I support them and wish them well.

I really wish we can get some people from those counties to chime in here... I'd listen to them before I'd listen to you.

Did you even read the Egyptian cables before you posted this? It behooves me to point out that it is the minority opinion that has been belittled by calling the evidence put forward "racist", "orientalist", and "supernatural", despite its legitimate sources. This will be the third time I say this:

Please do not project your well-wishing onto the scenario in N.Africa/Middle East. They are not a surrogate for our legitimate struggles here at home, and it is embarassing to see the complete disregard of facts just because we wish we could have a revolution of our own.

From the Egyptian cables:

Quote:

WHOEVER ENDS UP AS EGYPT'S NEXT PRESIDENT LIKELY WILL BE
POLITICALLY WEAKER THAN MUBARAK. ONCE MUBARAK'S SUCCESSOR
HAS ASSUMED THE POST, HIS FIRST PRIORITY WILL BE TO BUILD
POPULAR SUPPORT. WE THUS EXPECT THAT THE NEW PRESIDENT WILL
LIKELY ADOPT AN ANTI-AMERICAN TONE IN HIS INITIAL PUBLIC
RHETORIC, IN AN EFFORT TO PROVE HIS NATIONALIST BONA FIDES TO
THE EGYPTIAN STREET, AND MAY POSSIBLY EXTEND AN OLIVE BRANCH
TO THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, AS DID PREVIOUS EGYPTIAN
PRESIDENTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR TERMS.

Israa Abdel Fattah, an activist who payed a pivotal role in the Egyptian revolution, spoke out in a television interview of her CIA training before breaking into tears for betraying Mubarak, who she describes as like a father to her:

Quote:

A young Egyptian woman claims that the Mossad trained her to assist in bringing down Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's regime
...
she was sent to Doha in Qatar with a group of other young people for the next stage in the process. "We received intensive training for four days.

In an article for the Asian tribune, very public meetings between the leaderrs of the revolution and Secretaries of State Rice and Clinton are made evident, as well as the training that these individuals received from Freedom House, the only democracy training organization that receives most of its funding from the government, notably from the NED:

Quote:

The secret is: for about three years or so the United States administration - both Bush and Obama- while militarily supporting the Mubarak regime to maintain the American interest in the region and safeguard the 1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Accord both regimes strongly felt that there was unrest within the Egyptian society
...
Sensing a nation-wide agitation or uprising will not only disable or topple America's strongest ally in the region which would have devastating effect on U.S. interests there, the United States took very early precautions to identify, build and maintain contacts with potential youth leaders in the Egyptian society to maintain a delicate balance between ‘US national interests and democratic reforms'.
...
This writer [referring to the author] who once associated with political diplomacy and strategic communication in the U.S. State Department at its overseas diplomatic post in Sri Lanka was one of the staffers who contributed toward the development of a document called the "Potential Leaders List' every several years identifying potential leaders in all spheres of the society such as political, labor, media, trade and commerce, and even arts/entertainment. The ‘targets' are dead correct
...
the objective was to safeguard American interests in the region. The best way to protect American interests in the Middle East is to prevent Egypt from falling into the domain of radical Islamists with the Muslim Brotherhood taking the lead by fermenting non ideological youths to play a greater role eventually moving Mubarak and his Company out of the scene.
The Condoleezza Rice-State Department and Hadley-National Security Council were using the New Generation of Advocates Program of the Freedom House as a professional training and exchange program which supports young civil society activists who are working for democracy, human rights and peaceful political change in the Middle East and North Africa notably Egypt.
...
In May 2009 there were 17 young Egyptian activists in a training designed to strengthen the advocacy and networking skills under the auspices of the State Department and handled by the Freedom House.
...
The 17 Egyptian fellows spent five weeks working with their American counterparts to hone their skills as social and political reformers.
...
"We have been trying to do this for more than half a century, and quite frankly, we are not there, and you know what? We are not going to get there. You are going to get there," Alterman says. "We can help. We can inspire. We can give you some ideas. But the action, the real drive, has to come from you. It will come from you. People have seen it coming from you, and that is what changes the world."
...
These ‘dialogues' and trainings' are programmed through the Freedom House and National Endowment for Democracy, heavily funded by the State Department and the US Agency for International Development (USAID
...
This process or design is implemented and financed by US based foundations including the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and Freedom House (FH). Both FH and the NED have links to the US Congress, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and the US business establishment. Both the NED and FH are known to have ties to the CIA.
...
In a bitter irony, Washington supports the Mubarak dictatorship, including its atrocities, while also backing and financing its detractors, through the activities of Freedom House, National Endowment for Democracy, among others.
...
Freedom House's effort to empower a new generation of advocates has yielded tangible results and the New Generation program in Egypt has gained prominence both locally and internationally. Egyptian visiting fellows from all civil society groups received [May 2008] unprecedented attention and recognition, including meetings in Washington with US Secretary of State, the National Security Advisor, and prominent members of Congress. In the words of Condoleezza Rice, the fellows represent the "hope for the future of Egypt."
Let's Repeat This Again: The Egyptian pro-democracy delegation to the State Department was described by Condoleezza Rice as "The Hope for the Future of Egypt".
In May 2009, Hillary Clinton met a delegation of Egyptian dissidents, several of which had met Condoleezza Rice a year earlier. These high level meetings were held a week prior to Obama's visit to Egypt:

I have a few more UFO posters to tape up, then I should be back.

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:29

notaradical

Rebecca West wrote:

The original thread was closed because it was espousing ideas, without any valid proof, that the Arab Spring was a manipulation of Imperialist forces. Completely disavowing the incredible sacrifices of people who have protested, under threat of violent death, this conspiracy theory represents the kind of thought that can only be attributed to an arrogant cultural group that cannot conceive that people other than themselves can successfully revolt against their government.

That clear enough?

What constitutes "valid" proof, and why do none of the sources that I have listed fit that description?

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:48

voice of the damned

From the Egyptian Cables posted by notaradical:

WHOEVER ENDS UP AS EGYPT'S NEXT PRESIDENT LIKELY WILL BE
POLITICALLY WEAKER THAN MUBARAK. ONCE MUBARAK'S SUCCESSOR
HAS ASSUMED THE POST, HIS FIRST PRIORITY WILL BE TO BUILD
POPULAR SUPPORT. WE THUS EXPECT THAT THE NEW PRESIDENT WILL
LIKELY ADOPT AN ANTI-AMERICAN TONE IN HIS INITIAL PUBLIC
RHETORIC, IN AN EFFORT TO PROVE HIS NATIONALIST BONA FIDES TO
THE EGYPTIAN STREET, AND MAY POSSIBLY EXTEND AN OLIVE BRANCH
TO THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, AS DID PREVIOUS EGYPTIAN
PRESIDENTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR TERMS.

Doesn't this kind of contradict the theory that the Arab Spring is entirely a CIA operation? Why would the CIA deliberately foment revolution against Mubarak, if they think his successors will be more anti-American?

Tue, 2011-06-21 20:59

#10

Fidel

He's 79 and has cancer. And, it's an election year in Egypt. Time for a changing of the guard in Cairo. Apparently corrupt dictators eventually outlive their usefulness.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:03

#11

notaradical

Rebecca West wrote:

The original thread was closed because it was espousing ideas, without any valid proof, that the Arab Spring was a manipulation of Imperialist forces. Completely disavowing the incredible sacrifices of people who have protested, under threat of violent death, this conspiracy theory represents the kind of thought that can only be attributed to an arrogant cultural group that cannot conceive that people other than themselves can successfully revolt against their government.

That clear enough?

I am appealing to the moderators of this forum before yet another thread is closed. Why are you censoring debate? I see nothing orientalist, racist, or imperialist about the comments that I and a few others have made.

It does not necessarily follow that the suggestion of CIA-complicity, backed by facts, fits the description of the myriad terms used to insult my intelligence.

I thought this forum was an open arena for the discussion of topics, many of which are controversial. I admit that this topic fits the bill. I disagree that is in any way offensive or sullies the memory of the victims of state violence.

I have put forward evidence time and time again in response to the arguments of my opponents, which have been by and large devoid of facts of their own. I ask: if my proposition is so farfetched, why hasn't anyone come forward with evidence to the contrary? Why oh why is the evidence put forward "illegitimate"?

Instead, you shutter the debate under pretenses of snuffing out racism/orientalism/imperialism etc.

Quote:

This thread violates babble's anti-imperialist policy, so I'm closing it. Any future threads which entertain the conspiracy theory that the Arab nations were not responsible for their own insurrections and popular uprisings will be closed as well.

After reading the forum policy, I could find no "anti-imperialist" policy. I shouldn't even have to point that out. There's no way this thread can be construed as imperialist or enablist.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:06

#12

notaradical

I would like to say in my defense that the tactics used by detractors and, sadly, forum moderators, are largely ad hoc and are built on a bed of jelly.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:07

#13

notaradical

voice of the damned wrote:

Doesn't this kind of contradict the theory that the Arab Spring is entirely a CIA operation? Why would the CIA deliberately foment revolution against Mubarak, if they think his successors will be more anti-American?

They are referring to a natural succession order, not one put in place by the CIA.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:24

#14

notaradical

Furthermore, I would like to ask why the moderators continually inject this debate with histrionics. It is eerily similar to the silencing of critics of American foreign policy after the 9/11 attacks. I think the idea that we could not question the precursors to the attacks because it dishonoured the memory of the victims was blatantly anti-democratic and led to egregious crimes against humanity. That is enablist. It is also what's going on in this discussion.

Moderators, I hope you give pause and reflect on that before shutting this down.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:46

#15

al-Qa'bong

Contrary to the CIA myth, little Georgie Washington hacked up a grape vine, not a cherry tree.

Here's his favour-er-orite dish, which his mom made for him daily. Later, US missionaries took the recipe with them during their travels to the Orient, via the shores of Tripoli, where it is still enjoyed today.

Quote:

1 lb of Grape Leaves (about 75-90 leaves)

2 medium sized tomatoes finely chopped

1 bunch of Italian parsley finely chopped (cut off stems)

1 bunch of green mint leaves finely chopped

1 bunch of green onions finely chopped

1/2 cup of chickpea halves, rinsed and soaked in water overnight

1/2 cup of rice

2 teaspoons of salt

3/4 cup of olive oil

1 cup of lemon juice

1 medium size onions, sliced

1 large tomato, sliced

Stuffing Preparation (20 minutes)

In a bowl mix finely chopped tomatoes, mint, Italian parsley (with stems removed), green onions along with the chickpea halves, rice, 1 teaspoon of salt, 1/4 cup of olive oil and 1/4 cup of lemon juice.

Grape Leaves Preparation

If using canned grape leaves, get rid of water from can then soak leaves in clean hot water for 3 to 4 minutes. Rinse leaves multiple times with fresh water to get rid of any preservatives. If using freshly picked green grape leaves, make sure to pick the young leaves that are light in color and tender with a medium size. Wash well then boil on low heat for about 40 minutes.

Once leaves are ready, cut off their stems and stack them on a cutting board, and let's get ready to roll!

How to Roll Grape Leaves

Lay the leaves flat on a cutting board with the rough side facing upwards. Add 3/4 teaspoon of stuffing towards the bottom of the leaf as in the photo below:

Roll bottom of leaf over the stuffing, 1/3rd of the way

Fold right side over, 1/3rd of the way

Fold left side over, 1/3rd of the way

Then roll all the way through the end of the leaf

A good roll needs to be tight so that it doesn't break apart during cooking. We like to make medium to small rolls, about 1/2 inch thick and 3 inches long.

Stacking the Rolls in a Cooking Pot

Add one layer of onion slices on the bottom of a small to medium cooking pot, add a layer of sliced tomatoes on top and then start stacking layers of rolled grape leaves on top. While adding the rolls make sure to squeeze them tightly together to reduce any space in between in order to avoid them breaking apart while cooking.

Once you've finished adding the rolls, sprinkle 1 teaspoon of salt on top, add 3/4th cup of lemon juice, 1/2 cup of olive oil, 2 cups of water then shake the pot sideways to let the liquids seep all the way through the bottom. The liquid should top the grape leave rolls. Add a small (microwave-safe) plate on top and press it downwards and leave in pot while cooking. The plate creates a downward pressure on the grape leave rolls to keep them tightly held together.

Cooking: (Cooking time 40 minutes)

Cover the pot and cook for a few minutes on high heat until the sauce starts boiling, at which time turn the heat down to low and let simmer and cook for about 35 minutes. Every 10 mins or so, shake and swing the pot slowly to ensure that the sauce is equally dispersed and isn't stuck on one side.

Serving Grape Leaves

Once done with cooking turn stove off, uncover the pot and let it rest for about 1 hour to cool down. During this time the grape leave rolls will absorb more sauce. Please note that this step is optional and is just a preference of ours, and you could serve the grape leaves hot if you so desire.

Once ready to serve, empty the sauce from the pot in a separate container, then put your serving plate upside down on top of the cooking pot, and while holding them tightly together turn them over quickly so the pot is now on top and the serving plate on the bottom. Lay serving plate on the kitchen counter and slowly lift up and remove the pot from the plate.

You should now have a nice looking pile of neatly stacked grape leave rolls with the tomatoes and onions on top. You can then add a bit of its sauce on it to taste. Grape leave rolls can be eaten with pita bread or using a fork with optional plain yogurt on the side.

Warak Enab

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:47

#16

Fidel

voice of the damned wrote:
Doesn't this kind of contradict the theory that the Arab Spring is entirely a CIA operation? Why would the CIA deliberately foment revolution against Mubarak, if they think his successors will be more anti-American?

Michael Moore says the U.S. Govt has been a prolific leaker of cables over the years. A good example is the cables leaked before the Bay of Pigs fiasco. All of their cable comments to themselves were basically 100% wrong about the Cuban people being ready to rise up against Fidel and his government in Havana. US Govt cables are often sent from one yes-man to other groups of yes-men telling them what they want to hear. It's good for job security and good for the US Shadow Govt's morale often lurking in the background.

They are likely seeking an even weaker figure politically in Cairo than even Mubarak. Mubarak is gone because Egyptians demanded it. And nothing else has changed. The U.S. still domineers Egypt through Egypt's elite and corrupt military officials controlling somewhere more than 90 percent of the economy.

Corruption of foreign militaries by the U.S. Govt and its corporatists, for example, has been forumulaic in Latin America for many years. It's what they do. The infamous School of the Americas/WHINSEC has been teaching methods of oppression, assassinations, torture and a lot more to military officers and paramilitaries for a long time. And they are still open for business.

This post was in no way intended to detract or defame the people's uprisings in Egypt or any other country. I am for them.

In solidarity.

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:48

#17

Fidel

And how old did you say you are?

Tue, 2011-06-21 21:49

#18

Catchfire

Again, this thread is being closed for violating babble's anti-imperialist policy. Any further threads which assert that the CIA manufactured the Arab spring will be met with similar action, and possibly more if babblers continue to flout this request.

Topic locked