Libya 16

Libya SOS: Battle For Libya (and vid)

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/08/battle-for-libya-news-23-august-201...

From Rixos Hotel in Libya

NATO intervened after Gaddafi threatened to "cleanse" Misurata of rebel fighters. Hundreds of thousands of lives were at risk. 

Here we go again with the Official Story of Humanitarian Intervention.

When Misurata rebelled, foreign operatives had been on the ground for several months already, preparing the terrain, and most of the action was in the East.   "Leaders" were parachuted in from Virginia and other places.   And once it became apparent that all the military might of NATO was going to be thrown at Gaddafi, a good number of his officials jumped ship.  

The UN resolution was pushed by NATO members with the aid of their puppet Ban Ki Moon.  The Arab League supported UN action initially, then regretted it.  Only Qatar stood firm and provided arms, obtaining the first flow of oil from rebel-controlled territory, for its refineries.

 Russia and China might well be regretting their affirmative vote by now.

As for Humanitarian Intervention:  where were NATO and Qatar while the brutes were repressing the majority population of Bahrein?  Why was there no condemnation of the intervention of Saudi Arabia in Bahrein?  Why was the Yemeni dictatorship not targetted either?   If we opt for bean counting:  Colombia has had a far more repressive regime than most others, with literally millions of refugees both internal and abroad,  and thousands of trade unionists and peasants and political leaders assassinated in just the past decade, yet we (the US and Canada) sign a free trade agreement with that government and praise its security.  

 Oh, sorry.  NATO didn't put forward a resolution on Colombia.  Or on Yemen. Or Bahrein. Or for that matter Saudi Arabia, which still practises large-scale economic and sexual slavery.  So those criminals are not on our radar.

I can't wait to see the hand-wringing and the rolling eyes once the Al Qaeda death squads get going in Libya.  Besides serving as shock troops of Sharia law, they and some other gangs of psychos will probably be hired as security guards for the foreign oil companies and the privatized schools and government services and banks.    Then perhaps you defenders of the war criminals will finally wake up and look at history from both sides.  And weep..

Boom Boom wrote:

I think someone mentioned this in an earlier thread, but it's worth repeating:

The real issue that "NATO" went after Gaddafi is that he threatened to sell Libyan oil strictly through the BRIC countries: Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Guess that'll learn them.

Yes, and the fact that Libya's oil is about the cheapest in the world to extract at a dollar a barrel was far too tempting for British and French and U.S. blood-for-oil pirates not to thieve from the Libyan people. Libya will be transformed into a poverty-stricken hellhole much like Iraq and every other country they've terrorized in the recent past with help from al-Qa'eda partners in crime.

NATO's bloody piracy continues.

<a href="http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&amp;aid=26134">Canadian journalist Mahdi Nazemroaya in Tripoli</a> wrote:

"NATO has done all the heavy work. This is a NATO war. They heavily bombed cities west of [Tripoli], they've bombed all night, without even 10 seconds of stopping. They have bombed this entire city and NATO landed the insurgents on the coast of Tripoli."

Without NATO and Her Majesty's pirate service, Libya's "rebels" would still be there cowering in retreat and whining about a lack of support from the royal luftwaffe.

Sarkozy, The Queen and her Dope Inc. friends, Obomba and Qa'eda terrorists should all be strung-up for piracy. 

Fidel wrote:

Boom Boom wrote:

I think someone mentioned this in an earlier thread, but it's worth repeating:

The real issue that "NATO" went after Gaddafi is that he threatened to sell Libyan oil strictly through the BRIC countries: Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Guess that'll learn them.

 

Yes, and the fact that Libya's oil is about the cheapest in the world to extract at a dollar a barrel was far too tempting for British and French and U.S. blood-for-oil pirates not to thieve from the Libyan people. Libya will be transformed into a poverty-stricken hellhole much like Iraq and every other country they've terrorized in the recent past with help from al-Qa'eda partners in crime.

NATO's bloody piracy continues.

<a href="http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&amp;aid=26134">Canadian journalist Mahdi Nazemroaya in Tripoli</a> wrote:

"NATO has done all the heavy work. This is a NATO war. They heavily bombed cities west of [Tripoli], they've bombed all night, without even 10 seconds of stopping. They have bombed this entire city and NATO landed the insurgents on the coast of Tripoli."

Without NATO and Her Majesty's pirate service, Libya's "rebels" would still be there cowering in retreat and whining about a lack of support from the royal luftwaffe.

Sarkozy, The Queen and her Dope Inc. friends, Obomba and Qa'eda terrorists should all be strung-up for piracy. 

You're funny Fidel. You flounce, then you come back whining that Khadafi lost. I mean, seriously?

Fidel wrote:

Not just Gadaffi lost but the people, too. Why don't you move to Iraq and tell us how prosperous the people are there now as a direct result of the illegal military attacks on that country since 2003 and with al-CIA'duh's help since then? 

And I came back for a visit and mostly because this site is NDP-friendly and left wing progressive in general. I think it is you who might be out of your element here. Anymore personal attacks or questions dumb or otherwise, Wilder?

And while you're at it, check babble rules discouraging  off-topic thread-Qaeda posted against fellow babblers. 

Funny how you never spoke up for the Libyan people when Khadafi was cleansing them from Misrata and Benghazi. I would have thought that supporting the Libyan freedom fighters, basically Cuban in their outlook to removing a brutal dictator, would be a progressive thing. Apparantly it's not, because uhhh, why? And again, typical how you insert Iraq into a thread about Libya; off-topic and what-not, eh?

Back on topic:

Gadhafi’s options: death, exile or surrender

Amid the scenes of ecstatic celebration by rebels at Moammar Gadhafi’s looted bunker in Tripoli, one obvious mystery remained: where was Col. Gadhafi himself?

There was no sign of the deposed Libyan dictator or his family members in his lavish Bab al-Aziziya compound on Tuesday, even after the rebels had occupied it and torn it apart for hours.

Some reports have suggested that Col. Gadhafi might be heading for exile in Zimbabwe, Angola, Venezuela, Russia or Cuba. One report even claimed that a South African airplane is waiting for him in neighbouring Tunisia, ready to whisk him into exile. If he was flown to Russia or Cuba, he could escape prosecution by the International Criminal Court, since those two countries have not signed the Rome Statute.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/gadhafis-option...

The ICC in any case isn't worth shit; the only people prosecuted are those whose prosecution is approved of, in advance, by the U_S_A.

The CBC notes that the looting has begun.

Let's hope that the NATO atrocities have ended and not only just begun in Libya. We all saw how "freedom" for Iraq meant more than a million dead SINCE the 2003 attack on that country.

Some commentators on the left seem to think that the Libyans will manage to keep the NATO jackboots out of their country and manage to keep control of their own natural resources. I hope they're right.

ikosmos, DNFTT. It worships NATO terrorists and their best friends forever al-Qaeda, and that's all there is to it.

Rebels seize pro-Gaddafi Tripoli district: spokesman

Quote:

 

Libyan rebels seized control of the Abu Salim neighborhood of Tripoli late on Tuesday, a senior rebel spokesman said, referring to one of Muammar Gaddafi's main bastions of support in the Libyan capital.

Colonel Ahmed Bani also told al-Arabiya TV that rebels believed the Libyan leader was probably hiding in one of many hideouts in Tripoli.

"About an hour ago, the Abu Salim district was controlled," Bani said.

Libyan government officials have described residents of Abu Salim as fervently pro-Gaddafi, though journalists who toured the district when the city was still under Gaddafi's control said some had been ambivalent about the man who ruled their country for four decades.

Gaddaffi is slowly running out of room to move around in Tripoli.

Noah_Scape wrote:

Here is a video [from a "radical Islamist site"?] claiming that Gadaffi has "lured the rebels into Green Square and killed them all" [yes, I understand it is all lies]

http://www.theunjustmedia.com/

 

But why does it appear to be coming from Moscow?

LOL did you read the story above the YouTube post... 70% of the rebels in the country were destroyed in a trap set by Kaddafi. Wow... [edit] Oh, that's the Taliban website...

We'll know Tripoli is under complete rebel control when RT stops reporting from there... I doubt their reporters would be welcomed there by the rebels; RT was clearly a supporter of the regime and towed their line this whole war. 

'Death or Victory!' - Gaddafi Addresses the Nation (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/death-victory-gaddafi-address-795-11/

Don DeBar an antiwar activist and journalist, believes that whatever Colonel Gaddafi or the rebel leaders say, it is practically impossible to verify what is true or false at this point.

'But certainly what has been coming from the Western media has been proven to be lies,' he declared. 'Gaddafi opened up the armories to the people of Libya, more than a million rifles and other arms have been handed out to the people of Tripoli. The claim that has been made by the so-called 'progressive' media of the US is that Gaddafi is a hated dictator and that this is an indigenous rebellion. A dictator does not hand people guns..."

See post #3 upthread for a good overview of the Libyan situation - more from Don DeBar

Rebel Spokesman to Haaretz: Libya needs Help, Including Israel

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/rebel-spokesman-to-haaretz-lib...

"We are asking Israel to use its influence in the international community to end the tyrannical regime of Gadhafi and his family, says Ahmed Shabari.."

Libya As A Model for Redividing the Middle East  -  by Bill Van Auken

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/zeli-a24.shtml

"What is at stake is not merely the takeover of a single country, as significant as that is, but rather the reordering of an entire region. Libya is only the beginning of an imperialist drive to reorder the entire Middle East.."

So basically Hoodset you're saying it's "anti-imperialism at any cost" not real support for Kaddafi here? Isn't that like cheering fire burning down an orphanage just because the USA is the fire chief?

[quote=WilderMore]

 you never spoke up for the Libyan people when Khadafi was cleansing them from Misrata and Benghazi. I would have thought that supporting the Libyan freedom fighters, basically Cuban in their outlook to removing a brutal dictator, would be a progressive thing. Apparantly it's not, because uhhh, why? And again, typical how you insert Iraq into a thread about Libya; off-topic and what-not, eh?

 Hoodeet (JW)

"Cuban in their outlook"???!!!    The way their entrance into Tripoli was staged was reminiscent of the FORM of the Revolutionaries' entrance into Havana, down to the beards and berets and the cheering crowds, but they are certainly nothing like the Cuban revolutionaries in their outlook (unless you are referring to the few inexperienced, non-fundamentalist fighters) and bear in mind that the Libyans were led by foreign advisors, whereas the Cubans did it on their own, without Gladio handlers...)  

And Maysie was fired???   Little wonder this has become Troll Heaven.

I thought this was a very in-depth and factual analysis of the situtation in Libya.

As Gaddafi falls - Lessons from Libya - imperialism, anti-imperialism & democratic revolution

And I make bold to repeat my earlier carping that this forum seems to be teeming with militarist trolls.   What are they?  Political science students?  G 2x'ers?

Forgive the sniping. I'm just a superannuated armchair radical baby boomer whose brain wasn't formed by MSM.  And who only feels comfortable around folks who share my opinions (Northern Shoveler, Fidel...).  (Self-criticism was something considered positive in the good old days. We tend to forget it.)

Published on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 by The Independent/UK

Dash for Profit in Post-War Libya Carve-Up

by Jerome Taylor, Kevin Rawlinson, Laurie Martin and Charlotte Allen

British businesses are scrambling to return to Libya in anticipation of the end to the country's civil war, but they are concerned that European and North American rivals are already stealing a march as a new race to turn a profit out of the war-torn nation begins.

In this Sept. 1, 2009, file photo, Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi arrives for a military parade in Green Square, Tripoli, Libya. After five months of fighting in the world's 12th-largest oil producer, industry figures are acutely aware that billions could be made in the coming years from rebuilding Libya. Immediate focus will fall on the country's oil fields that are currently producing a 10th of the 1.6 million barrels a day that were exported pre-revolution. (AP Photo/Ben Curtis, File) Business leaders with previous experience of making deals in Libya have told The Independent that plans are in hand to send a trade mission to Benghazi to meet leaders of the Transitional National Council (TNC).

Lord Trefgarne, a Conservative peer and chair of the Libyan British Business Council, said he hoped to be able to lead a group to the country "by late September, early October". He said: "Any mission would be done in consultation with the TNC and would only be made if adequate security protections were in place. I believe we should be trying to make sure we can get whatever business we can."

After five months of fighting in the world's 12th-largest oil producer, industry figures are acutely aware that billions could be made in the coming years from rebuilding Libya. Immediate focus will fall on the country's oil fields that are currently producing a 10th of the 1.6 million barrels a day that were exported pre-revolution.

There is also intense lobbying for the multibillion-pound reconstruction contracts that are likely to be offered once fighting ends. The Independent conducted a straw poll of more than 20 Western companies with previous business commitments in Libya. None would talk publicly about its plans but many admitted privately that they were keen to return once security allowed.

"It is still too fluid a situation in Libya to be able to say exactly what we are doing," said one official at a company involved in reconstruction efforts in Iraq. "If business goes back to Libya, we will undoubtedly follow."

French and German officials have already begun trade negotiations with the TNC. Britain has a growing "diplomatic" mission within rebel-held Benghazi but no Trade and Investment officials on the ground, leading to concerns among some business leaders that Britain is failing to capitalize on helping the rebels secure regime change. "It's all politics, no commercial stuff," said one businessman with experience in Libya. "I think that's a mistake. We need to be getting down there as soon as possible."

In the years preceding February's revolution, British businesses played a key part in wooing Muammar Gaddafi - part of a wider campaign by Western intelligence agencies to roll back Libya's pariah status in exchange for investment opportunities and co-operation in the fight against violent Islamists.

Sir Mark Allen, a veteran Arabist and deputy head of MI6 who led negotiations with Colonel Gaddafi, was even hired by BP after his retirement to help to secure drilling rights. The oil giant is the only big British company to state publicly that it plans to return to Libya, but it has no technicians on the ground. The Italian energy giant ENI already has people working with rebels in eastern oil fields.

Although there were early concerns that the opposition forces might punish Britain for its previously favorable approaches to Colonel Gaddafi, TNC officials have indicated they will honor contracts made before the revolution.

Mike Pullen, a partner at DLA Piper and an adviser to the former regime, said there was still goodwill among opposition leaders because of the prominent role Britain had taken in NATO attacks on regime forces. "The TNC will want to deal with people they're used to dealing with, people they understand - and they understand the Brits."

Lord Trefgarne said he believed Britain would not be overshadowed by its competitors. "The success of the French and Italians inside Libya has been somewhat overstated," he said. "We've been dealing with competition from other countries all over the world for decades and I'm fully confident of our ability to do so in Libya."

© 2011 The Independent

well, the world is against you in your dogmatic preference for Ghaddaffi at all cost ..

Hoodeet wrote:

No, I'm not saying that.  i'm saying that the Libyan rebellion was small in the beginning and NATO jumped in to build it up, not just prop it up, for the advantage of the hegemonic states and the multinationals.

It sets a very very bad precedent for any country whose leadership the west disagrees with.  NATO doesn't touch Bahrein or Yemen with a ten foot pole.  Nor will Canada or the US go the extra mile to condemn Colombia, infintely more egregious.

 

I look at it as every situation is different no matter how similar they seem. I don't like to use one size fits all sentiments for all the worlds events; its way to complex for that.   

Libya is not Iraq is not Afghanistan is not Bahrain is not Yemen is not Syria and so on. I did not want the US to get involved in Libya, but I'm not running the country and it did... that don't mean I'd stop supporting the rebels when it happened; I'm still glad to see they are winning. I wish them the best (I'm not a pessimist like most of you here).

I say fuck all those dictators, "ours" and "yours".

DaveW wrote:

well, the world is against you in your dogmatic preference for Ghaddaffi at all cost ..

Just more social democratic lies about other peoples views.  If you knew how to read for content you would find I have never supported Gaddafi.  I don't believe bombing people in their beds is the way to peace and democracy.  How is that method working so far in Iraq and Afghanistan?  We have the templates available to compare too and I think that the civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are still suffering and more of them have been murdered by NATO inspired violence than by anything their own governments every did.  

As a person who believes in democracy I think that citizens of a country should determine their future not white imperialists from NATO sitting in their comfy chairs in Canada deciding who to kill next in the name of peace.

The social democratic mantra.  

Rah Rah NATO Lets bomb the world for peace and democracy.   Do-War for PM.

DaveW wrote:

As a person who believes in democracy I think that citizens of a country should determine their future ...

yeah, except for rebels in the east of Libya: screw 'em! 40 more years!

So how is it going in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Have the people won yet?  Did they get democracy?  Are corrupt, violent, despotic governments a thing of the past? 

Is your mother named Pollyanna?

The Libya Media Hoax  -  by Metro Gael

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26155

"Surpassing previous mass media fabrications, both in scale and boldness, yesterday morning's Al Jazeera's mise-en-scene will surely go down in history as one of the most cynical hoaxes committed by corporate media..."

DaveW wrote:

As a person who believes in democracy I think that citizens of a country should determine their future ...

yeah, except for rebels in the east of Libya: screw 'em! 40 more years!

As opposed to forty more years in the desert watching Western billionaires and militarists funnel away all their oil profits?  I wonder how long the religious fundamentalists and tribal sectarians 'we' put in his place will remain grateful?